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Weird concertina Ebay

Steve Gardham 17 Apr 18 - 10:39 AM
Jack Campin 17 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM
Jos 17 Apr 18 - 11:44 AM
TheSnail 17 Apr 18 - 02:55 PM
GUEST,Cohen 17 Apr 18 - 03:14 PM
Richard Mellish 17 Apr 18 - 03:28 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 17 Apr 18 - 03:35 PM
Steve Gardham 17 Apr 18 - 04:01 PM
GUEST,Cohen 17 Apr 18 - 04:39 PM
Steve Gardham 17 Apr 18 - 05:08 PM
Steve Gardham 17 Apr 18 - 05:20 PM
Steve Gardham 17 Apr 18 - 05:24 PM
GUEST,Cohen 17 Apr 18 - 05:45 PM
Steve Gardham 17 Apr 18 - 06:05 PM
GUEST,Dave Hunt 18 Apr 18 - 11:31 AM
Tattie Bogle 18 Apr 18 - 11:58 AM
Steve Gardham 18 Apr 18 - 02:45 PM
Richard Mellish 19 Apr 18 - 06:43 PM
Richard Mellish 19 Apr 18 - 07:02 PM
Steve Gardham 20 Apr 18 - 09:40 AM
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Subject: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:39 AM

What is that strange-looking concertina currently on EBay? 72 keys, described both as duet (which seems reasonable) and anglo layout (not reasonable). It's not laid out like a Jeffreys duet, McCann or Crane system or any other of that period I know of. Intriguing.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM

Can't find it. Got an exact link?


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Jos
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:44 AM

This one?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-WHEATSTONE-DUET-AEOLA-72-Keys-AG-1926/173268894906?hash=item2857a184ba:g:qcMAAOSwDCxa0K-h


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 02:55 PM

Perhaps one of these Wicki or one of tehse Chidley if you turn the diagram sideways.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: GUEST,Cohen
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:14 PM

There has been a discussion about this concertina over on concertina.net they have concluded that it is a large anglo with a very peculiar layout: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20265


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:28 PM

The alternating rows of six and five buttons imply that it is not any of the fingering systems with which modern-day players are familiar. Nor can it repeat from octave to octave (which would need twelve buttons, not eleven, unless one note is missing) so it would probably not be an easy system to learn.

I can see it being bought either just as a curiosity and possible investment, or with the intention of shuffling some reeds around to make a system that is easier to learn. Personaly I have little inclination to do either.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:35 PM

Thread on concertina.net


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 04:01 PM

Tried to log in to Concertina.net but couldn't find anywhere to log in.
Anyway I looked at the note plan. Whew! The only sense I could make of it was a row in C and a row in Bb with all the rest extra sharps and flats. My own 61 key special just had the usual CG in the middle with lots of extra notes around the outsides until I converted it into CGDA.
definitely an Anglo though but a serious one-off and presumably way OTT.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: GUEST,Cohen
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 04:39 PM

From what I could make you, it has 3 diatonic rows tuned to C, Bb and Ab (Ab is harder to tell from the layout due to the way the notes are written) and a corresponding row of accidentals for each. What its use may have been I couldn't begin to guess!


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:08 PM

Just guessing as I'm musically illiterate, but could it be the ability to play in any key with a minimum of pattern changes? Having the Bb/Ab options would suggest perhaps a jazz or brass band usage.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:20 PM

Cohen
You're not CKB are you?


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:24 PM

Sorry, that should be CBK?


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: GUEST,Cohen
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:45 PM

I am indeed Cohen Braithwaite-Kilcoyne


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 06:05 PM

Wow!
I'm a big admirer of your work. Talent like yours gives us old farts hope for the future.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: GUEST,Dave Hunt
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:31 AM

Many years ago a friend of mine acquired a duet concertina. - (Wheatstone)..from all the literature we could find we could not decide which system it was. Neil Wayne was similarly puzzled...and suggested that it was a system someone had designed - then got Wheatstones to construct - apparently this was unusual but not unheard of.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:58 AM

A bit expensive for the Salvation Army maybe, but could play along with all the brass instruments in the flat keys?


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:45 PM

In the 1920s Wheatstones were experimenting with all sorts of unique boxes. Mine is near the beginning of a series of anglos with increasing numbers of buttons. I think they got to about 88 before they started coming back down in size. I have a vague recollection when I bought mine from Crabbs in 1970 there was an even bigger anglo on the shelf, aeola or edeophone ebony, with even more buttons than my 61.

Regarding the unidentified box that puzzled Neil, I wonder what it was described as in the catalogue.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 06:43 PM

If (as seems) it is as shown in this PDF then it certainly has C, B-flat and A-flat rows. That is already remarkable, having keys two steps apart on the circle of fifths rather than one step apart. And whatever the logic may have been for the other rows I can't fathom it. I could be tempted to buy it with a view to modifying it as Steve has his, but I suspect I would never manage to work out a good arrangement, and it's better really to leave it as built.

I wonder: does that layout bear any resemblance to any of the big square German boxes?


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:02 PM

Sorry, above link somehow got slightly corrupted, enough not to work. Try this.


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Subject: RE: Weird concertina Ebay
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 09:40 AM

'does that layout bear any resemblance to any of the big square German boxes?'

Not any that I've seen, Richard, though I don't remember ever having a go on an American polka box. The chemnitzers I've got from Argentina and Germany seem to be anglos centrally with lots of extras round the outsides like my Wheatstone was when I got it.

'I would never manage to work out a good arrangement, and it's better really to leave it as built.' I would have to agree in principal. I was very lucky with mine though I had to pack some of the slots when I moved the reeds around and on the bass side there are still some restrictions in D and A in that I don't have the full 5 keys. I'm learning a tune in A for our next album and it briefly goes below what I have on the box. Might have to dig out my old DA box.

The logical conversion on this one would be DAG but as that is going down the scale you would need bigger slots, but not by lots. Would new reed pans be prohibitive? There are lots of quality reeds there to play with.


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