BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread

Subject: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 08:11 PM

Look away now, vegans.


In m'humble, you simply can't beat a roast chicken dinner. Given a good-quality bird, spuds that don't collapse to mush when you roast 'em, a parsnip that's had frost on it, gravy made from the roasting tin scrapings with veg stock made from an onion, stick of celery, herbs and yer carrot trimmings, a goodly wodge of home-made stuffing (recipe to follow if you play nice), a chipolata of your choice and your favourite veg steamed to perfection, and you are truly eating one of the culinary greats.

I'm not interested in any chicken that weighs less than 2kg. It simply must be a slow-grown free-range bird. The corn-fed jobs are great but don't sweat that one. Round here the Creedy Carver birds are common and they are excellent. But the best I've had for years come from Gloucester Services of all places, the produce of the Herb-Fed Poultry company. They are no dearer than other free-range birds but their quality is utterly superb. I've cooked four or five by now and they have all been ottimo. They have a lovely moist, firm texture and flavour to match. Mrs Steve and I roasted a 2.2 kilo job on Sunday that cost twelve quid and we've had three meals off it, plus a bowlful of smaller scraps that I'll use for a soup or a risotto a la Nigel Slater. So that's four meals for two, but that isn't the end of it. The stripped carcass went into a big pan with a few chopped onions, a carrot or two and the coarse outer stalks of a head of celery, along with a sprig of fresh thyme and a bay leaf and a bit of pepper. I boiled that up in two litres of water for at least two hours then strained it. The stock is so good that you could actually eat it on its own as soup, but I'll probably freeze it then use it for any manner of soup or for a risotto. There'll be no stock cubes used in THIS house!

Cheap chickens have no flavour, lots of water and poor texture. The bones make rotten stock. You get what you pay for, but even if you buy the best chicken available it's still much cheaper than a leg of lamb or rib of beef.
.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 08:40 PM

Guess I'm a fried chicken man myself. The U.S. Southern states rightfully deserve their reputation for chicken. Every small town has a drive-in restaurant that serves chicken and fixin's that are out of this world.
I like roast chicken and it's probably healthier, but Southern fried chicken is the real deal.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 09:26 PM

Well don't get me wrong. I cook all sorts of smaller bits of chicken too. I tried that southern fried thing once but all the floury coating fell off. Here's good one. Take your skin-on chicken pieces, preferably thighs but whatever, slick them all over with olive oil, season with salt and pepper and scatter them on your largest oven tray skin side up. Too crowded is not good. In among the chicken pieces scatter some hunks of onion and some diced unpeeled potatoes, about half-inch. Slick them with the oil too. Put into a hot oven, 200C minimum. After fifteen minutes scatter about twenty or thirty garlic cloves on the tray, still with their papery skins on. After thirty minutes scatter some large hunks of red pepper on there. Optional: drape some slices of pancetta over the chicken at this point.

After 45 minutes in total your meal is done, all on the one big tray. Scatter a bit of freshly-chopped parsley over everything if you have some and you're in heaven, I promise.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 09:36 PM

Oil an oven tray. Lay several slices of either pancetta or prosciutto on the tray. Take one skinless chicken breast per person and carefully slice them to open them up flat. Lay the chicken pieces on top of the bacon slices. Put about two teaspoons of cheese on each breast and fold them back so that the cheese is inside. The cheese can be anything. Boursin is good as long as you don't overdo it. I tend to use tallegio meself but there are no rules. Wrap the bacon round the chicken as snugly aspossible. Put into hot oven, maybe 200 degrees, for 20 minutes. So easy!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: olddude
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:20 PM

I love roasted chicken

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:44 PM

I have several ways to roast chicken. Sometimes it's spatchcocked and put in the outdoors barbecue grill, other times it is put into a granite ware roaster with a lid, or one that is really fabulous is using the Romertopf clay baker (soak top and bottom in water for 20 minutes, put in chicken, vegetables, seasoning, cover, put in cold oven for 80 minutes). I also do them occasionally in my glass bowl convection oven, just the chicken so the air can circulate well.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's light up: a roast chicken dead
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:59 PM

hot salsa covered chicken. cook in clay pot

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: JennieG
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 01:43 AM

Has anyone cooked a whole chook in a slow cooker? We have two or three frozen chooks in the freezer (thanks to Himself who won them at lawn bowls) and I am tempted to try it with one of the aforesaid birdies.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:45 AM

I wasn't hungry 5 minutes ago!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:24 AM

Oh, gee, I'm getting REALLY hungry....

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:33 AM

But Steve....you've forgotten something absolutely vital to a roast chicken dinner.....



SPROUTS!!!!!!!
(Those huge fat ones boiled for a few minutes only, served with a little knob of butter)

We also add Spring greens and broccoli. And a large fully-opened mushroom. Mashed spuds as well as roast ones. Forget the parsnip ...bleurgh.

It's only 8am here and I'm absolutely starving now.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:55 AM

Wot? No chlorine rinse for a little extra piquancy and je ne sais quoi???

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:27 AM

hot salsa covered chicken. cook in clay pot

You is eatin' salsa not chicken - sorry tastin'. The chicken is there for the texture. As I found in Canada 30 years ago, the average chicken without sauces (aka disguise) is often bland to the point of cardboard. The world wants the sauce, and real chicken has its own flavours. So the market needs a bland chicken so as not to spoil the sauce.

The UK had eminent proof notso longago - Beef lasagna was found to include horse meat. People (tricked) offered horse meat lasagna on TV said it was just the same. My point? They were tasting flavours that no respecting horse or cow ever daubed all over themselves.

but there are exceptions we can allow IMNSHO - smokey bacon!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:37 AM

You're right Iains. We nearly threw up a few weeks ago as we had been tempted in Asda to get a very cheap whole chicken. It tasted of pure chlorine, and the smell while cooking was ghastly. Even the cats wouldn't go near it. It went straight into the bin.
We normally get our chickens from Roys of Wroxham. They're locally sourced, free range, large and flavoursome (not of chlorine!)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:41 AM

Not so "light" for the chicken Steve !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 05:40 AM

Hi Senoufou. There is a point about factory reared chicken being bland.
Probably due to the speed with which they bulk up between egg and table. A home reared chicken compared with a factory reared one is rather akin to the difference between veal and venison. In the world of today I suspect many younger people would not like the "strong"taste of the genuine article.
    Sadly the same is true of many of our vegetables as well. Does a lettuce or tomato taste of anything today? Speed of growth, lack of blemish, even ripening take dominance for obvious reasons. Is it desirable? I leave that to others.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:43 AM

I'm not a big fan of Roast dinners but that one sounds pretty good, Steve. I think I would use new potatoes to roast in their skins when available. Now, what wine do you reckon? I quite like a Pinot Grigio or an un-oaked Chardonnay. Maybe one of the Spanish whites?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:44 AM

We notice that Iains. Our home-grown lettuces, tomatoes and veggies are full of flavour and organically grown. I just keep the old hoe going round the rows to get rid of weeds and we don't need chemicals.
Same as the eggs from our neighbour's chickens. Gorgeous. And the local pork - the pigs are out in the fields rooting around in the mud while their piglets gallop all over the place. Lovely to watch.

I don't approve of 'factory reared' anything. It's cruel, produces crap, tasteless food and probably does our health no good either eating the stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:31 AM

If you roast your chicken right when it comes out of the oven you can pick off a whole bunch of crispety skin before people notice...

And I have stock cubes: Make stock, freeze in ice cube trays, store cubes in freezer ziplock bags.

The French put a bunch of butter under the skin; never found it necessary, chickens have marvy fat. HOT HOT oven, though, or the skin isn't crispety enough.

Feed the leftover chicken to people, eat all the skin.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Jos
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:52 AM

So I'm not the only one who snaffles all the chicken skin.

And full marks for the recommendation of UN-OAKED Chardonnay - or un-oaked any other wine for that matter. Some makers of cheap wine ruin it by adding oak-flavouring in an attempt to kid consumers that it has been aged in oak barrels and is therefore a 'bargain'. The result is particularly unpleasant when it is a white wine, and it is not always possible to know whether this has been done when buying wine.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:11 AM

Sadly, good quality tasty humanely reared meats are beyond the means of too many families...

Even though it's getting on 10 years since I was last in a gym bulking up muscle,
I still 'need' a fair bit of meat protein per day...

Which is pot luck whatever we can find knocked down cheap on last sell by date at Tesco,
or packs of bland chicken or turkey portions...
Thank the meat gods for tesco own brand jars of curry sauces...
half the price of 'better' brands...

I won't buy the cheapest economy range of meats though...
can't be too careful with those...

But as for the future.. depends on the weekly amount of pension...

My mum eats the most rubbish meat products so she can afford trifle and choc ices...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:27 AM

We normally get chicken from P.D. Willacy of Poulton Le Fylde when we can find him at farmers markets. Excellent free range chicken. We don't usually roast a whole one though.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:40 AM

For those worried about a tad of healthy antibacterial chlorine on their chicken may I recommend a healthy serving of that popular scandinavian
standby
Lutefisk

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:56 AM

Gus's World Famous Fried chicken open up near me.

http://gusfriedchicken.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:24 AM

Julia Child's method of roasting chicken is excellent, I've used it a couple of times lately (it has a lot to do with positioning the bird to keep the breast meat moist). I need to remember to pull out her book and remind myself of the steps next time I roast a whole bird. (I read the book My Life In France last year and loved her descriptions of experimenting to get recipes just right.)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:37 AM

I remember all my years struggling training in the gym to stay fit..

Chicken skins were absolutely banned off my diet...

.. it was heartbreaking having to peel of and discard the crispy tastiest morsel of a meal...

..especially when roasted in garlic...

.. and i so like crispy pork fat on chops...!!!

These days my nightly statin tablet is definitely made to work hard for it's prescription price...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:46 AM

My Dada user to eat bacon rind - Raw!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:21 AM

I remember diets forbidding chicken skin. At the time I didn't like it so it was fine, but now, no, sorry, too yummy.

And I don't like to stuff it with stuffing, it somehow makes it not cook quickly enough to have that great texture.

I *really* do not like undercooked chicken. I like it so that when I grab the drumstick the bone just pulls out and leaves the actual drumstick behind, still attached to the bird.

Mom liked the feet. Boy do they show birds used to be dinosaurs.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:33 AM

Chicken feet, had them in China. An acquired taste as far as I am concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:40 AM

What part of a chicken haven't we eaten in lazy cheap meals of nuggets or Kiev...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:46 AM

I haven't had Lutefisk, but I have tried Hálkarl

I can't say I greatly enjoyed it...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Charmion
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:21 AM

Roast chicken is one of our favourite meals. Himself gets the legs; I make do with what's left over.

I agree with Steve; less than 2 kg is frankly not worth the trouble, and the somewhat pricier free-range bird is a good buy. In these very agricultural parts (Perth County in southwestern Ontario), "pastured" chickens are often sold at the farm gate, but they're frozen unless you know the farmer and arrange something special.

We have been here long enough now to have found a farmer who raises "heritage" breeds, pasture-fed. Decoded, that's old-fashioned-looking chickens who spend their days running around outside; when you drive into and out of the barn yard, you have to watch your bumpers for feathery movement.

I roast the bird for 20 to 25 minutes per pound, starting at 350F and breast down. Turn it over onto its back after the first half hour, and turn the heat up to 400F for the last 20 minutes to brown the breast. Salt and pepper all over outside and in. Instead of stuffing, I like to put a large lemon in the cavity -- pierced all over with a sharp little skewer -- to add both moisture and a little zing of flavour to the breast meat.

The flat-pan dish of chicken parts with potatoes and garlic is a great one; I like to put sliced shallots in there, too, and wedges of lemon. It's nice for company, not least because you have two of the three main elements of the main course in one container that you can bring straight to the table. Make a salad, crack a bottle of wine, and Bob's your regaled uncle.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:36 PM

My neighbor grew up on a farm, and she told me her brother raises free-range chickens now.

"Of course," she said, "they're actually in boxes."

When I think of the threats to chicks and chickens in the Missouri countryside, I understand why. Feral dogs and cats, hawks, coyotes, snakes, raccoons, foxes. What a feast for them!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: rich-joy
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:51 PM

I’m still rather fond of the chicken recipe I submitted to “Whiskey Before Breakfast” - the 2003 Mudcat fundraiser cookbook produced by Catter, NicoleC.

“BIG MOBS” GARLIC CHICKEN : This is the Darwin version of a recipe originally from Provence!   A very “hands on” meal with little preparation!!

1 x whole free-range Chicken in roasting dish
40 (or thereabouts!!) x cloves of Garlic – in their paper skin – in the dish around the chicken
Big slosh x White Wine all over

Roast maybe 1 to 1 ½ hours. Serve with Brown Rice and Broccoli and French Toast Croutons on which you squish the yummy toffee’d cloves of roasted garlic!!

Can also slit the skin of the Chicken in various places and place peeled Garlic cloves inside. This, of course, gives a different flavour again …...

ENJOY!!

R-J (Down Under)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:25 PM

Well here's what I do with a typical 2kg free-range bird. In the UK we seldom get giblets any more, but if yours has giblets remove them and boil them for half an hour with an onion, stick of celery, carrot and a bay leaf in a pint of water. This will make lovely stock for making your gravy later. Personally, I prefer to exclude the liver for this purpose.

Don't wash the chicken unless you're a fan of food poisoning. Blot it with some kitchen towel. Put it into a good roasting tray that has a bit of room round the chicken. I have some Mermaid anodised aluminium ones that are superb. Just about melt a goodly knob of butter in a small pan. Pour this butter over the chicken, rubbing it in with your hands. Into the cavity insert another knob of butter, a whole small onion and half a lemon. Season the whole chicken really well with salt and black pepper. If you happen to have a bit of French tarragon, stuff some into the bird and sprinkle a bit on top, but this is optional. Cover the chicken with tinfoil but don't wrap it in it. Just a top covering.

I know that Raggtytash will vehemently disagree, but you really don't need to stuff butter under the breast skin. I've tried it both ways and it doesn't make any difference. In addition, there's no need to muck about changing oven temperatures or turning the chicken over.

Set the oven to 190 fan and after five minutes put in your covered chicken. Leave it alone for 90 minutes and go for a pre-prandial walk.

After 90 minutes remove the foil. This is a good time to drain off some fat for making the roast spuds.

Return the beast to the oven for about another 25 minutes. Remove it, put it into a clean tin and leave it for half an hour to rest as you get the rest of the grub ready. The chicken tin will have lovely crusty bits for making gravy that you made the giblet stock for earlier. If I haven't got giblets I'll either use some stock I had in the freezer or I'll make a separate panful by boiling the trimmings of the onions, carrots and celery from earlier. I will not use commercial stock cubes as I don't like my gravy to taste of chemical warfare.

Eat the skin before the missus catches you. The cook's treat is the parson's nose, which by a long chalk is the tastiest morsel of food on this planet.

I have a slightly smaller bird in my freezer, Acme. I'm going to try that spatchcock thing you mentioned on my barbie this summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:25 PM

The years of not eating chicken skin because of the fat were years of wasting one of the best parts. Just like eating cholesterol doesn't raise your cholesterol, eating fat doesn't raise your amount of fat. (Amounts being "normal.") Sugar and carbs are the real culprits, so go eat that greasy burger or eat that fried chicken skin and enjoy it. Just don't overdo.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: BobL
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 03:27 AM

One trick I used to do when roasting a chicken was to lift the skin from the breasts and slide a slice of ham and a handful of button mushrooms underneath. Came out of the oven looking as though it had some dreadful disease, but was delicious.

Incidentally my local farm shop sells free-range half chickens, which provide four portions and half a pint of stock. Ideal for those living on their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 03:30 AM

Feral dogs and cats, hawks, coyotes, snakes, raccoons, foxes.

Quite a spread! What restaurant can you get them at?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:03 AM

(sad little voice from old lady in the corner)

sprouts? sprouts?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:08 AM

I am on your side, Sen. Bring 'em on. Lightly boiled, as you say, with a little butter (and lots of black pepper for me). Or, as recently discovered, cut up and stir fried with lardons. Maybe with chestnuts but that is more Christmas-y

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:14 AM

Ah thank you Dave! As long as people sit upwind of us after the meal, all should be well.

As children we loved crunching on the bones, especially the joints of the legs, so we could suck out the marrow. We didn't often have chicken (considered a bit of a luxury then!) Sadly, the state of our teeth now prevents us from enjoying this pleasure... but our cats have taken up the challenge.

I absolutely love crispy chicken skin. Don't care a pin about all that cholesterol rubbish. mler! (thumbs nose)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Jos
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:17 AM

I never did give up eating chicken skin - or butter, or cream. I did give up the small amount of margarine I ate (in other people's houses when there was nothing else on offer).
The doctor insisted on checking my cholesterol (maybe they get paid extra for doing it). The result said my cholesterol was high. The GOOD cholesterol, that is, while the bad cholesterol was low. He said I was obviously doing the right things.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Jos
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:18 AM

PS. I love sprouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:27 AM

Ooooh Jos, another one for the Sprouts Club! Good!

I actually don't believe all this cholesterol stuff. I eat so much saturated fat I must be a walking lump of solid cholesterol. Of course, my doctor sis is always nagging at me. I should apparently be eating just salad leaves, green vegetables, Benecol and boiled fish or some such rubbish. Nuts to that! (Oh, and nuts are supposed to be a Good Thing too)
However, I have to be fair to her - she only weighs nine stone and gallops up and down mountainsides in Scotland where she lives. I'm nearer twelve stone (gasps of utter horror from her when I told her!) and couldn't break into a trot for love nor money. But I comfort myself by remembering that I'm much older than her. Ha!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:30 AM

We eat sprouts in season only. Those that you get in September are unpleasant. They should be small, tight and nutty. I think they definitely need a frost on them. I bought a bag of absolute horrors at M&S last week. Watery balls of squidgy sulphur. The best sprouts I've had this winter were those purple ones on stalks from Lidl. I like a bit of colour on the plate so I generally include carrot in my veg for a roast. A very nice combination in winter is carrots cut into little sticks steamed for five minutes, then chopped sweetheart cabbage added to the steamer for another seven or eight minutes. The organic ones from Waitrose or M&S are well worth the money. I'm not interested in inorganic cabbage. I'm a big fan of tenderstem spears and purple sprouting, but I won't buy those horrid, tasteless, watery green clouds of calabrese. Good Cornish cauliflowers are very nice and I always grab one of those Romanesco jobs if I ever see one. Parsnips are de rigeur in our house from Christmas onward. I grow my own, and they also need a frost. If you have excess parsnips you can cut them to cooking size and freeze them in bags without blanching for a good few weeks. It's a good idea to douse them in a bit of lemon juice to stop them from going brown.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 09:50 AM

I like 'em big fat and tight Steve. (sprouts I mean) No good now, the season's over. I adore Spring greens. All veg must be boiled very briefly, NOT turned into puree by boiling for ages (yuk)

Parsnips are bearable if coated in butter and a little honey then roasted in a separate dish beside the main roast. But they taste too much like soap for my liking.

I wish our tiny freezer was about six times the size. Our old one in the last house had six huge drawers and we had a massive garden and more energy. We used to freeze lots of our home-grown produce in those days.
My husband does a fiery Hot Horror with leftover chicken pieces, Scotch bonnet chillies, peanut butter (!!) and some other powders which I have no idea of. Meanwhile, the cats and I demurely chomp on the non-spice-contaminated bits. One can't go in the kitchen while the Horror is cooking, as the orange-coloured steam makes one's eyes water.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 10:21 AM

Tarragon takes over and there is no other flavor, to me. Not a fan.

The whole onion and/or lemon wedges in the cavity, yeah, stuff to flavor, not stuffing to eat. That's what I meant, earlier. Also celery tops.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 10:55 AM

I make my own sausage meat stuffing with good local butcher's sausage meat. Apart from the meat it contains a few tablespoons of breadcrumbs, not too much, an onion chopped fine and whatever fresh herbs I have, maybe a bit of parsley, thyme or sage, or all three, not too much though. Dried herbs, with tbe exception of oregano, are the work of the devil. I'd rather do without. And seasoning. I bake it on a tray in the lump, open, on greaseproof paper for about 45 minutes. I never put stuffing inside the chicken. I like anything green except for that nasty calabrese. I only bother to get the steamer out if we're having cabbage. All else is boiled when we have roast chicken. Spuds must be parboiled then roughed up before roasting hot for half an hour in chicken fat. I drool.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 10:56 AM

Oh, and Bisto is not allowed in our house.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 11:06 AM

After I was student and really skint cos my grant had ran out...

Part of my staple diet was, OXo, Knorr, Bovril, etc stock cubes in a mug of boiling water...

I think I had a 30" waist back then..

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Jos
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 12:38 PM

Bisto ... ?
Does it still exist? I haven't come across it since about the 1950s. Mind you, I haven't been looking for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 12:43 PM

Oi, do you mind Steve?! :(
I use Bisto (not those awful granules, the old-fashioned powder) to make all my gravy, using the juices in the roasting dish and a little water from the greens. My mother and grandmother did the same, and it's gorgeous.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 12:50 PM

My Mum's gravy was lovely. Roasting tin scrapings and potato water was involved but I was too young to understand that I needed to save the recipe for posterity:-(

The Mother in law's was awful. Greasy water with gravy browning in. Even the Mrs agrees!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 12:54 PM

Hahaha Dave. My darling mother-in-law wouldn't recognise gravy if she saw it. She's a champion Spicy Horror cook!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Jos
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 02:00 PM

Sen, I make my gravy the same way you do - but without the Bisto. There is plenty of flavour in the roasting pan and vegetable water.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:23 PM

There is one spice that turns any ground meat into a great sausage taste but I forget its name.
?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 09:56 PM

Steve, if you can see it in the UK, here is a YouTube video from Martha Stewart for Spatchcocked chicken by removing the spine or the breastbone. Apologies in advance for the ad that plays (here we see an ad for an obnoxious yard chemical product that will kill every living thing of the planet if people don't get smart and ban it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 02:04 AM

Roasting tin scrapings and potato water was involved but I was too young to understand that I needed to save the recipe for posterity:-(

'Tis the flour you is for-gettin'. Wheat or Corn
(not so sure the UK variety is not ground from beans).

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 02:39 AM

I am pretty sure she used cornflower. I know it was thick enough to trot a mouse across:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 03:51 AM

I use Bisto to brown and thicken the gravy. Using just cornflour gives a rather anaemic look to the stuff. I expect it actually contains cornflour though.
Have to confess too to using Paxo sage-and-onion stuffing mix in boiling water, to which I add skinned sausages all mixed together with a little beaten egg.
I bet Steve will hear this confession and give me twenty Hail Marys as a penance. "Ego te absolvo" etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Iains
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 04:22 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFpuxyDOspQ

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 04:30 AM

Usually Knorr vegetable stock pots at home.

Closest to chicken the 3 of us would eat together are Quorn Fillets. Last time I did that, I used a jar of Patak’s korma sauce mixed with a can of chopped tomatoes to cook the Quorn in.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 08:12 AM

Just plain flour, the roasting tin scrapings with just about a tablespoon of fat left it and some stock (even just veg water). Not too much flour. We don't care for thick, gloopy gravy. If the gravy is slightly thinner it's ace for squidging your last roast spud into.

Paxo is too strong. Making good stuffing is very easy. I make a big batch, enough for three or four roasts, and freeze it in portions. If you don't want a meaty stuffing, Waitrose sell a very nice meatless herby stuffing but it costs a head-scratching two pounds fifty. We buy that one if we want to have a hot chicken or pork roll, complete with onions fried in butter and the best and biggest floury bap we can get our hands on. Beer needed and sit over your plate.   

Cheers for that, Acme. All we need now is some warm weather. Everywhere else is getting it except us. Bloody sea fog two days in a row.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 10:14 AM

Donuel, is it sage?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 08:03 PM

Fennel does that for me, Don - it's what makes Italian sausage, at least. So if I'm making something like a spaghetti sauce with hamburger it's because I was out of sausage, I add fennel to give it the right flavor.

I roasted two large chicken breasts in the convection oven this afternoon, then scraped the drippings into the container with them. It's always worth keeping that to flavor things like rice or make gravy.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 09:27 PM

Fennel is very nice in an Italian sausage, and we occasionally have Italian sausages in a lentil and tomato sauce with goodly amounts of garlic and chilli. The lentils must be green Italian ones, or at least Puy lentils, failing that. But fennel can be a bit of a hooligan if overdone, a bit like rosemary. I dislike fennel seeds and never include them in recipes that supposedly call for them. Our holidays in Italy have taught us that herbs should never be the point of a dish (one reason I eschew all dried herbs, oregano aside, which are all far too pungent). Herbs can enhance a dish without that dish tasting of the herbs. It's a hard balance to achieve but it's well worth the effort. We spent a week in Puglia, seeking out the best local grub we could find, and not once did herbs slap us in the face.

Mind you, my Mediterranean roast potatoes, with lashings of garlic and rosemary, never fail to please...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 10:08 PM

My garden has fresh rosemary, oregano, thyme, mint, cilantro, bay leaves, basil, lemon balm, though not always all of them all year round. I love cooking with herbs. We so far haven't found them to be too overpowering.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 10:21 PM

My cooking hasn't progressed much since student days, and my wife can't cook at all.
Her education dept job work load seems to have at least doubled since Blair's govt,
getting much worse since the tories got back in.
..and we are significantly worse off financially...

So meals need to be quick, cheap, and reasonably healthy and nourishing for when she comes home from work...

I seem to have spent my life practicing for subsisting frugally on a minimum state pension...
These skills will come in handy when the wife retires.
Hopefully we will have more time then for more imaginative meals,
and who knows, she might even learn how to cook without incinerating...???

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 04:28 AM

Now we have discussed the many ways of chicken abuse in order to eat it, what does everyone do with the leftovers?
If I have a roast chicken I plate two meals, one to be zapped in the microwave day 2. Day three and four the remaining meat is stripped and curried.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 04:39 AM

Between the four of us (two humans two cats) there isn't a morsel left.
We've been known to sit in the sitting room with a nearly-bare carcass in front of us on the coffee table, picking off tiny bits while the cats help. They love crunching the bones. Very inelegant; we must look like a bunch of cave people from the stone age.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:30 AM

A curry is a good idea but I prefer to start a curry with raw chicken. In winter, use the stock you've made from the carcass, together with the chicken scraps, to make a hearty soup. To turn the soup into a meal in itself, add cooked beans, cannellini, borlotti, haricot, or a mixture. A bit of pearl barley. Or small pasta instead of beans. Even basmati rice (cook it first and add at the end). Start with a soffritto of equal parts chopped carrot, onion and celery. You can fry that in olive oil until soft. For extra richness fry some pancetta first then add the veg, reducing the olive oil somewhat. Add the stock and the chicken and whatever bulking-up ingredient you're using. Delicious.

Another good use of scraps is to make a risotto. I got the idea from Nigel Slater's "Real Food." Fry a chopped onion in butter. Add a bit of chopped fresh thyme and the risotto rice. Toast the rice for a minute or two then add stock according to your own method (I cheat and add mine all at once and I don't stir - simmer with lid on for 14 minutes then stir like mad for a couple of minutes). Add cooked chicken pieces. After a minute or two add Parmesan, chopped fresh parsley, check seasoning, then do your mantecura bit. Nigel recommends a big helping of creme fraiche but butter's fine. Ultimate comfort food.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:34 AM

By the way. I have a medium sized Le Creuset casserole for making risottos and I would never use a cheap, thin pan. It wouldn't work.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 04:23 PM

I've just noticed - by sheer coincidence, my no-stir risotto method is in the Feast section of today's Guardian, in an article written by the ultra-reliable Felicity Cloake. Personally I'd add the wine at the toast-the-rice stage. The other thing to emphasise is the very vigorous bout of stirring needed after the simmering, which helps to get some of that creaminess out of the rice.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 07:39 PM

I have chicken scraps, enough for two, in the freezer from last week's roast. I also have a large panful of lovely chicken stock. Mrs Steve and I are not supposed to drink alcohol on Mondays and Tuesdays but I've already told her that this coming Tuesday is an exception, as Liverpool are playing Roma in the first leg of the Champions League semi-final that evening. I will be making that risotto I mentioned above, to be in two big bowls by kickoff. But I'll start by frying four ounces of pancetta before frying the onion, which means I won't need much butter at the beginning. It's her favourite so I should be able to get over the hump of breaking our pact...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: BobL
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 03:10 AM

Steve, your risotto sounds like a slightly posher version of a long-established family standby, Rice Thing. A nice flexible recipe using long grain rice, with whatever (suitable) veg & cooked meat is around. But always Real Stock. Must try it with risotto rice & Parmesan.

Sen, in my cat-hosting years, chicken carcases were a problem - I'd heard the bones are brittle and can cause internal troubles. Pressure-cooking was the answer - yielding a litre of stock, and crumbly bones which the little dears could safely attack with gusto.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 03:27 AM

You're quite right BobL, slivers of hard, dry bone can get lodged in a cat's intestines and cause a very bad injury. but ours are elderly now, and don't actually eat the harder bits of bone. They just nibble off any meat left, and crunch the softer joints. Then they lick out the dish. It hardly needs washing after they've finished.

Dave, I hesitate to confess this, but I adore raw lambs' kidneys and lamb's liver. I chop it up and it's delicious. Much prefer them like that than cooked!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 05:40 PM

Re leftovers, once you've eaten what you think is everything off the bones, the carcass makes great soup. Add things like onion peels and carrot tops and other, well, garbage, saved from the stuff you made with the chicken, and it makes even better soup. This is the only reason to keep cheesecloth around. Again store the leftover broth in ice cube form in freezer bags, add one or two as needed to a lot of things.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 07:57 PM

I'm very efficient at stripping every last scrap of meat from the bones, with chicken soup or risotto in mind when small pieces don't matter.

If you've eaten the drumsticks or wings with the roast, don't throw their bones in the bin. They go in the stock pot with all the rest. I use the whole carcass with a chopped carrot, some sticks of celery (the tough outside ones plus the leaves), a couple of onions including the tough outer layers but not the papery stuff, a sprig of thyme and a bay leaf. Some black peppercorns but no salt. You can add but you can't take away. About a litre and a half of water. Simmer for as long as you like. I would never use any bits of brassicas in stock. Parsley is good, especially the stalky bits.

Strain off the liquid into a clean pan then put all the bits back into the stock pot. Spend a happy minute pounding them up into a pulverised mass with a wooden spoon then add a half litre of boiling water and stir. Strain into the liquid in the clean pan. You've now got everything you can out of those old bones!

There will be a layer of fat on top once the stock is cold. In my kitchen it stays!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Charmion
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:09 AM

The last phase of roast chicken around here is chicken salad, a sort of Waldorf salad with small chunks of chicken breast added. Many people say they like the breast meat best and eat it first, but we tend to compete for the legs and wings, leaving the breast to be eaten cold. After a couple of chicken sandwiches have gone down range, the remainder becomes salad.

The components are: two or three ribs of celery, sliced, and the celery leaves, chopped; one or two tart apples, cored and diced but not skinned; an onion, sliced very thin; as much cold chicken as you have in the fridge, skinned and diced; and a handful of walnut or pecan halves. You may also add diced cucumber and sweet red pepper if you like. Add lots of black pepper and dried thyme leaves, plus marjoram if you have any around, and powdered dehydrated garlic. Dress with mayonnaise, mix thoroughly, and let stand for at least an hour before serving to let the flavours get to know each other.

This is a good dish for summer barbecues and potlucks, and my in-laws like it a lot. It goes very well with cider.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:14 AM

Anyone tried Tesco's chicken chilli thighs? (in a sort of sweet chilli marinade). Very nice - even I can manage to eat them, as they're not too spicy. We got some on offer (three packs for a tenner) and froze some.
Meant to be barbecued, but we don't have one, so roasted them for a while in a very hot oven. Husband thought they were a bit tame, but he's used to Scotch bonnets and can't taste anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:17 AM

Tesco? TESCO?

Go and wash your mouth out

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:23 AM

I know Dave, shouldn't have sullied this posh foodie thread with the name. :) But it's nice sometimes to have a snacky thing to hand, and these really are quite tasty. Sort of sweet/spicy at the same time.
I suppose I mustn't admit we get huge turkey legs for £2 each
at.....er....






ASDA!!! (flees whimpering in fear)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:32 AM

Nowt to do with being posh. Remember who I work for and try these instead

£3 a pack or 2 for £5 :-)

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM

We love Morrisons Dave, but it's right over in Fakenham. Drayton Tesco is a bit nearer. But next time we go to Fakenham we'll try those, they're very reasonably priced aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:51 AM

Reasonably priced and, hopefully, more responsibly sourced than those from the dark side.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Jos
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 12:42 PM

I wouldn't even bother trying anything called "sweet chilli ...".
It's not the "chilli" that's the problem. It's the "sweet ...".
I also avoid any savoury food labelled "caramelised", or "honey", or anything of that sort.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:27 PM

I think I am happy that I don't know what Tesco is.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's lighten up: a roast chicken thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:53 PM

We have a smallish (one outlet only, soon to open another location after 60+ years in just one place) store in North Texas that sells gourmet foods that didn't go to grocery stores (from the suppliers) - overages, I imagine. Lots of bulk foods that are packaged into smaller containers, etc. Some items are quite near the shelf dates, others have a long time to go. I don't buy chips there much, but everything else is good. A lot of the meat is frozen, so we get just about anything you can think of for usually half the store price. The merchandise changes a lot, though they usually have lovely cheeses, good yogurt, beef, sausage, poultry, various fresh produce, and lots of shelved goods (mixes, sauces, flavorings, spices, etc.) It's one of those long-in-the-tooth old warehouse buildings that once you are inside you realize is amazing. Friends with dietary restrictions are able to find a lot of variety and take things home to freeze (or dry produce, etc.) Not long on prepared foods, mostly the ingredients.

When you break food down to it's basic ingredients, this is what you end up with. A great place to find the parts for lots of meals. It's a store for people who know how to cook.