Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 03:19 PM

It would be good to get back to a civil and sensible discussion - this place is almost as bad as my local newspaper's comments columns at times

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 01:51 PM

So free advice Sandman. "there are today great shallows in the human sea, so proceed always with the leadline"

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 01:12 PM

Observer, running a festival takes a lot of time , i hve not had time to spend watching every thread on this forum, now kindly, fuck off

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 07:18 AM

Certainly isn't Freddy - pity that Dick Miles ignored the thread 2018 Festival Reviews that you started to pat himself on the back. The thread that you started is the relevant place for his posts of 20 Jun 18 - 02:18 PM, 20 Jun 18 - 02:37 PM and 21 Jun 18 - 12:25 AM.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 04:44 AM

! MUDELVES !
From
thread.cfm?threadid=164014&messages=62#3931444
THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT BEVERLEY

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Cj
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 03:06 AM

Glad to read the festival was a success for you, Dick, and that Eddie Lenihan was well looked after.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 01:12 AM

No doubt at all that what you state is the truth but you've totally missed the point made - "feed-back on a festival by the bloke that organised it is not really feed-back" - feed-back generally comes from punters who attended the festival and paid to place their bums on the seats at the organised concerts and attend the various sessions. Feed-back also comes from those who performed at the festival.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 12:25 AM

it happens to be the truth, Martin Carthy was a sell out , Eddie Lenihan was well attended, the festival was very busy

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 03:14 PM

Just an observation Sandman but feed-back on a festival by the bloke that organised it is not really feed-back - it's more like applauding yourself. Well done for having successfully steered your festival through to completion.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 02:37 PM

Does it not occur to any of you that the festival director might be exhausted after running the festival,obviously it has not because you have never done it, like so many people that have never done it you take it for granted

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 02:18 PM

FastnetMaritime was a great success, Martin Carthy was a sell out, the festival was very busy

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 07:28 AM

Actual point being made GUEST 18 Jun 18 - 04:11 AM was about the lack of feed-back on festivals mentioned on this site. If people find it useful to mention forthcoming festivals on this site I find it rather strange that they do not find it equally useful to provide feed-back as to how the festival fared.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:11 AM

"Labour Live" - such as it was - has nothing to do with this thread. Start your own.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 11:32 AM

Thanks GUEST Joe G it is rarely if ever there is any feed-back given on the festivals mentioned on Mudcat, which is a great pity. Almost begs the question if 'catters ever go to any of them.

The Fastnet seems to have dropped completely off the board.

One festival that does seem to have had loads of comment was Labour Live Festival – Anybody go to it?

Performers at the festival included Levi Roots, the musician who invented Reggae Reggae Sauce, comedian Eddie Izzard and musicians Clean Bandit, Rae Morris, “ The Voice winner” Jermain Jackman and the Magic Numbers.

Apparently if you did attend you can count yourself among the “Few”.

Couple of good comments relating to it -

1: Apparently people who paid £35 for tickets were complaining about paying that price when other people paid £10 or nothing. Which I found amusingly ironic, given that's precisely the unfair socialist society they're pushing for. Thing is, they're not used to being the ones paying for it. NOW they know how it feels.

2: "The food stalls were fabulously middle-class: cardamom flapjacks, Persian herb frittata.

Back at the Momentum tent, a performance poet was reciting a lengthy satirical work about gentrification."

>>

Irony anyone?

They hope to run it as an annual event.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 11:02 AM

ask not what your mudcat\festival\club can do for you....

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 09:05 AM

Whoops above.

Not really a criticism JoeG - more an observation.

Given that a fair number of people who might be interested in the fringe would also keep an eye on mudcap for details via a thread say.

Complete silence since the 1st of May until I asked the question and refreshed the reference on 14th June.

I do not carry the dates of Beverley FF in my head but knew it was some time around the longest day having seen the dawn come up more than once on the old campsite in the days before they started bookiing brass bands and acts not to my taste.

I wish whoever it is the best of luck and am only sorry that I was unable to support them this year.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 08:45 PM

Well given that this was the weekend that the festival was due to take place and that the team organised the wider fringe programme in a very short time and with limited funds I think your reason for complaint is on shaky ground. I went today and enjoyed what I saw and particularly the evening gig with the Dan Webster Band & friends which had an audience of around 100 people many of whom were folk festival ticket holders who were admitted free thanks to the generosity of the organisers. Congratulations to everyone involved!

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled 2018
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 07:11 PM

Well there you go!

Silly me thinking it was next weekend.

If there had been any advance publicity then one might well have ventured but alas - no!

Oh dear some things never change.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 01:49 PM

Tickets on the door £5 for the Spare Hands concert on the Syntan Barge on Beverley Beck. Saturday tomorrow 7 till 9. All proceeds to upkeep of said barge.. Songs of the trawling industry and the Humber Waterways.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 04:21 AM

Lots of good stuff going on. I can highly recommend the Saturday night concert at the Memorial Hall which features a number of artists who were due to appear at the cancelled festival: Dan Webster Band, Bella Gaffney and Polly Bolton, Jack Parker and Katie Spencer

7pm start

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 09:14 PM

Beverley Fringe 2018
June 15 16 17
https://www.facebook.com/beverleyfringefestival/events/
"featuring open musician sessions, live bands, morris dancing and buskers around the town and at venues including The Sun Inn, The Tiger Inn, The Monks Walk, East Riding Theatre, The Queen’s Head and many more.

Beverley Fringe Festival has taken place alongside Beverley Folk Festival for many years, bringing local folk music and dance to the town centre. Following the disappointing news that Beverley Folk Festival, due to take place on 15th-17th June at Beverley Racecourse, will not be taking place this year, the community and local businesses have come together to ensure this exciting, independent event still takes place.

These mostly free events are an opportunity to come together and celebrate the important tradition of folk music in Beverley. Beverley Folk Festival might not be happening, but Beverley Fringe Festival is here to stay."

+concert Saturday £10(/free if you've an original ticket)
+concert Sunday £14.50

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 08:25 PM

So the weekend that the festival should have been is ten days away.

Anything to report anyone?

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 May 18 - 02:06 PM

Ta, Dick!

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 18 - 01:32 PM

Steve, very good comment

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 May 18 - 01:15 PM

As a local (Hull) I have been involved in the festival in a number of different capacities since it started, upto Chris Wade's resignation. Of the 3 current directors I don't know any of them, and only vaguely recognise one of the names. They're certainly not a well-known part of the folk scene as Chris was. Having said that I do know and respect greatly many of their volunteer organisers.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 01:27 AM

The Uncut Fringe Festival?

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:30 AM

BEVERLEY FRINGE FACEBOOK PAGE

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 04:18 AM

Steve, evey success to the fringe , this is what it is really about music for the people by the people

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,OlgaJ
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 04:11 AM

Hope the Fringe works. We (Alterego) have volunteered to do something to help. We were to do the Ceilidhs at this year's festival as an unpaid act, and were disappointed at the cancellation. Hopefully someone can find something for us to do at the Fringe, which we have supported for many years.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:13 AM

Good on yer.

Best not call it anything with Beverley attached to the word Folk.


People assume.


Hull north? Cottingham east? Not the Nellie's? North Bar? Minster? The Beck.
Nothing worthwhile springs to mind.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 01:35 PM

On a more positive note an excellent meeting was held last night and the Fringe is definitely going ahead with 4 pubs already committed and hopefully the Syntan barge which has a new stage. Several groups have already offered their support for free. We have no connection with the previous festival organisers.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 05:11 AM

My major upfront financial committment is festival insurance,
As regards online ticketing, pay pal take a very small commission.
Martin Carthy tickets are available from my website [15 euros] contracts have been signed, in the unlikely event of concert cancellation 15 euros[less pay pal commission] will be refunded if requested.
The contract has been signed by Alan Bearman.
PayPal take a commission on 15 EUROS 86 CENTS.
I already have Martin Carthy MIN FEE, people are advised to purchase tickets soon as they are selling rapidly, contact www.fastnetmaritime.com

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 04:27 AM

"where did that money go " ?

deposits in advance to Marquee and Hall Hire organisations. Essential as they look for bona fides and some recompense for declining other requests for services.

On-line ticketing - maybe the outfit took commission at the point of sale. I well remember buying from Comet a month before they closed and the receipt clearly explained any refund would be minus an amount for some obscure company that was probably owned by the directors of Comet.

Webspace/domains. Printing. telephones. It all adds up, and has to be paid well before the event.

And let's be honest, volunteers can not do these jobs in the most cost efficient way, they probably have day jobs.

Which is why Mr Red stewards at festivals to help them, and pays for certain festivals because it supports them (& there is another person to comply with!)

FWIW I happen to know that Upton upon Severn FF 4-7 May (soon) & "not for profit" survives on the goodwill of the committee, and the town.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 08:05 PM

Morris-ey and Sandman, you're both out of line. Your personal squabbles are of no interest to the rest of us. I don't want defenses or apologies, or any further discussion by anyone of your personal squabbles. - just stop it, now.

-Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 08:02 PM

Even a quick glance at the figures provided to Companies House shows that the festival has been insolvent for a number of years and kept going using the peculiarities of what they had to disclose in the hope that things might improve.

If the figures are to be believed then there are people who stand to lose a lot more than £110. After all that is not much more than a decent meal for four - or two if you live in London.

The festival has provided enjoyment for a lot of people over the years, although I have not been since Nellies (FC) stopped being involved and they started booking brass bands.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 04:38 PM

my precious comments
!here lies a potential problem , this kind of thing can happen as a result of commercialisation,particulr kind of enterpreneurs moving on to the folk scene, hoping to make a lot of money, showing little in the way of moral scruples."
I did not use the words" money grabbing promoters" here was another post which has a question mark ,that means it is a question, again no mention of money grabbing promoters
"is this the result of business entrepreneurs trying to make a quick buck?"
I have never made THIS thread anything other than the closure of Beverley festival.
Morrissey, please note.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 02:49 PM

"I doubt that can be answered by anyone here". - Doesn't mean we should stop asking.

Q. : Why would you believe what Dick says any more than what anyone says?
A. : Because although it's a fair few years since I booked him for Aberdeen Folk Club - more than once, he always struck me as a fairly genuine, honest and decent bloke. [ That certainly does not mean that I always agree with what he says here ]. He is therefore one festival organiser I have met. If you only ever bought tickets from festival organisers you know personally, the majority of people wouldn't go to many festivals.

Q : If I were of a mind to buy a ticket to his festival, given that festivals do fail, what cogent evidence does he have that he could keep his promise re reimbursement?
A : Probably the same as everyone else.

"This is now about all festivals - Dick made it so with his various comments about money-grabbing promoters".
No it's not. It's about people losing money to 1 particular festival, and the reasons why that particular festival was cancelled.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 01:19 PM

I doubt that can be answered by anyone here.

Why would you believe what Dick says any more than what anyone says?

If I were of a mind to buy a ticket to his festival, given that festivals do fail, what cogent evidence does he have that he could keep his promise re reimbursement?

This is now about all festivals - Dick made it so with his various comments about money-grabbing promoters.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 01:01 PM

Much as I admire Dick's attitude, this thread is about the Beverley Festival, not his. When he says that he would pay his debts, I believe him. What can be done to see that those who did their best to support the Beverley festival by putting their money up front can be re-imbursed ? Still waiting for an answer to "where did that money go " ?

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 12:23 PM

Why not tell us about the balance sheet for your festival that you are promoting?

How do we know that you have the means to refund any and all creditors if your festival goes tits-up?

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 12:18 PM

Howard, you hasve no idea of the size financially of my sponorship, I have to work hard for very small sponsorship, I cut my cloth accordingly, my risk is based upon my income,however my sponsorship has been cut by 350 euros, but everyone will still be paid ,even if i have to pay them out of my own personal account.
if I have to have fundraising events afterwards, that is how it should be, the festival is not based upon booking the latest highly promoted "STAR",
NEITHER IS IT BASED UPON TAKING HUGE FINANCIAL GAMBLES to bring in audiences, neither would I run a festival if I had not paid BEVERLEY RACECOURSE or any other large creditor from the previous year.
    My budget has been cut because despite filling a venue with over 100 people for Andy Irvine, the venue has decided that it does not want music, this same venue has only just reopened after being closed for a holiday for 5 months, it appears Iam dealing with business people who do not have much idea about how to run a successful business, no one rule with any business is to be open.
   Howard, please do not make assumptions about the financial size of my sponsorship based upon the amount of sponsors I have listed,
if my risk is less it is because I calculate with care based on the previous years income and expenditure, that is known as good business practice, because I am ultimately responsible for debt, andbecause Ihave some understanding as a performer oh how it feels not to be paid. As i understand all the performers that were booked at Beverley have not received a penny, if you know otherwise please correct this understanding. so we have perfomers who have not been paid and people who have bought tickets and have not yet been refunded, it is nmot good enough

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:17 AM

I seem to remember 2 or 3 years back that several festival organisers had been saying that the credit card companies were refusing to release funds from online sales until the event had actually happened. Presumably to avoid this very sort of thing happening.

If this is still the case, then it should be possible to claim from the credit card companies, who are presumably holding the funds. Unless of course the Beverley organisers managed to get round it, in which case they may have had the money. Once their Company goes into liquidation, they are prohibited from paying back any money as it becomes the Creditors' money to be shared out by the Liquidators.

The AFO will no doubt know more about this.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Howard Jones
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 08:25 AM

The organisers may well have made a misjudgement but I think it is unfair to accuse them of commercialisation. This was not a profit-making enterprise run for the benefit of the directors or shareholders.

The question of when a company is insolvent can be complex. One of the tests is being able to pay debts when they are due. For an operation with very cyclical income based around a single event it may be entirely reasonable for its assets to be less than its liabilities at a particular point in time, provided it can reasonably be expected that enough cash will be there when it is needed. What appears to have happened here is that a funder has withdrawn, and the loss of that anticipated income has altered the equation meaning it can no longer expect to meet its liabilities. The directors don't appear to have tried to trade their way out of it, as sometimes happens, but have put it into liquidation as they are obliged to do. Unfortunately this means that those who have bought tickets, probably along with some suppliers, will have to take their place in the queue for any remaining assets. For them (but probably not suppliers) if they have paid by credit card there may be at least a possibility of a refund from their bank.   

I think it is reasonable to ask if some festivals have become too large. Many of them seem to have become large concert events with big-name headline guests which are very expensive to put on, and although they may attract large numbers at premium ticket prices the risk is considerable. The danger is that it develops into an arms-race between competing festivals, and the booking of well-known artists to attract a general audience but whose connection to folk music may be tenuous. If that is what you mean by "commercialisation" then I am inclined to agree, although I'm not sure this applied to Beverley. Personally I tend to avoid this type of festival and prefer small, more intimate events with more opportunities to participate.

Dick, your attitude is highly commendable, but your festival appears to be supported by a large number of sponsors so perhaps the risk is less. Beverley appear to have had too much reliance on a single sponsor and put too many eggs in one basket.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 07:22 AM

The point is though, if they have taken people's money whilst knowing that the debts exceeded the value of the assets, they may still be personally liable for the debts. From Wikipedia:

"Any director who knows that the company is insolvent and makes the decision to continue to trade, and in doing so increases the debts of the company can be made liable for the company debts."

Being a director of any small outfit is a serious responsibility, I have never done it and would be reluctant to do so.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 05:17 AM

Howard ,no, I am being honest, I run a Folk Festival it is my responsibilty to pay everyone,.
people will lose confidence infestivals if they pay money and do not get refunded, it is irrelevant whether the organisers have any bother business interests, they have taken peoples money who bought tickets in good faith and have lost their money [110 for a ticket].
there is a lesson here, do not take peoples money when you owe a debt[to beverley racecourse], better to have closed the festival after last year and let enthusisats run a low key singers based festival, this is an example of the worst kind of commercialisation that has entered the uk folk scene it is disgraceful and should never happen

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Howard Jones
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 05:04 AM

"here lies a potential problem , this kind of thing can happen as a result of commercialisation,particulr kind of enterpreneurs moving on to the folk scene, hoping to make a lot of money, showing little in the way of moral scruples"

Sandman, I think that comment is a little unfair. The directors don't appear to have had any other business interests, and their statement says that the directors are volunteers and that the company is run on a not-for-profit basis. When you are taking on commitments of tens of thousands of pounds it makes sense to do it through a company to avoid being personally liable for any debts. I don't think any of us would want those who put time and effort into running festivals to risk losing their homes if things go wrong. However when a company goes bust there is a strict pecking order of creditors, and of course HMRC is at the head of the queue.

I'm sorry to hear this news, I have fond memories of playing Beverley a number of times several years ago.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:31 AM

here lies a potential problem , this kind of thing can happen as a result of commercialisation,particulr kind of enterpreneurs moving on to the folk scene, hoping to make a lot of money, showing little in the way of moral scruples.
Meanwhile folk clubs are based around a specific community often run by dedicated enthusiasts who rarely rip people off, [it has happened to me only twice in 40 plus years].
support your folk club and be careful and do research about every folk festival before parting with money.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Will Fly
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:30 AM

I'm happy to say that the Henfield Festival of Gardens & Arts runs for its 19th consecutive year on the weekend of 9th & 10th June. It's essentially an open gardens event, but with artists displaying their work in some venues, and musicians playing in some venues. We have over 20 acts this year, comprising around 100 musicians, all of whom play for the fun of it, and entrance to all gardens and events is free.

Most of the music is on the folk end of the spectrum, with some jazz and vocal ensembles here and there.

Anyone interested can reac all about it here:

www.henfieldgardensandarts.net

(Henfield, West Sussex, UK)

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 02:47 AM

according to https://companycheck.co.uk/company/05666752/BEVERLEY-AND-EAST-RIDING-FOLK-FESTIVAL-LIMITED/financials they have always traded with liabilities less than their assests. Probably in the hope of ticket sales on the day and sponsor covering the apparent shortfall.

Alcester don't seem to have responded to me this year so I can at least alter my list accordingly. mister.red/fest.html

Stratford Folk Festival doesn't seem to be running, Fakebook page exists but not their own website.

And Banbury Folk Festival recent posts list the dates as 12-14th Oct and artists have been booked. Not sure what venue they are using.

Bedworth Folk Day has replaced the weekend due to lack of suitable campsite.

the Jinney Ring Festival is not running this year and unlikely to re-start as their website has expired. Fakebook page continues ad nauseum.

Subject: RE: Beverley Folk Festival cancelled
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 04:59 PM

Its a question worth asking as to whether they have been trading while insolvent. If that have been taking bookings for 2018 whilst their debts from 2017 exceed their assets, thats a bit naughty.