BS: Israel's Sharpville

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:46 AM

PFR,

You seem to think that "musician, artist, or writer" MUST be left wing:

YOU may choose only to look at AArt from one side, but most reasonable people look at the ART and judge it on it's merits, rather than on the political bent of the Artist.

Was Homer left wing?

Was Shakespeare?

How about Keats?

I'm sure glad I'm not a humanist musician, artist, or writer
enduring life under ANY of the current Arab regimes...


NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION:

"called for peace from both sides,"

For the Israelis, this would mean letting the demonstrators overrun the border and kill all the Jews ( the stated purpose).(- RESULT: DEAD JEWS AND PALESTINIANS ;JC's, Acme's, and Mr Shaw's preference)

For the Palestinians, this would entail keeping back from the border and NOT attacking the Israeli troops, or throwing rocks, grenades, burning tires, et al. (- RESULT - NOBODY HURT ;My preference)

So WHICH side has control of "peace"?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:45 AM

bob - so you'll be first in line to hand Canada back to it's rightful occupants...??????

Oh yes that's right - 60 shot to death yesterday..
and all you are capable of is cheap jibes at anyone who doen't revel in it...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:39 AM

BTW, I can't help but savour the tasty irony from someone who maintains the hoary, anti-Semitic trope that Israel stole the land of the Palestinians when that person lives on land stolen from the Mexicans. Irony can be sweet, hypocrisy not so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:39 AM

YOU are clearly hysterical [ at least on the evidence of these most recent posts ]..
and most probably not the ideal type of personality who should be included in any peace talks,
which stand a hope of reasonable success...

Life in England might not be ideal, but I'm sure glad I'm not a humanist musician, artist, or writer
enduring life under the current right wing Israeli regime...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:34 AM

PFR,

"might be a more sensible and rational debater than"


You mean, by using the same tactics as JC I have proven otherwise? Take a look at what you are saying, and get back to me...

And ANSWER THE QUESTION:

"called for peace from both sides,"

For the Israelis, this would mean letting the demonstrators overrun the border and kill all the Jews ( the stated purpose).(- RESULT: DEAD JEWS AND PALESTINIANS ;JC's, Acme's, and Mr Shaw's preference)

For the Palestinians, this would entail keeping back from the border and NOT attacking the Israeli troops, or throwing rocks, grenades, burning tires, et al. (- RESULT - NOBODY HURT ;My preference)

So WHICH side has control of "peace"?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:27 AM

PFR,

Someone (YOU) posted
"You either really takes sides because of passionate belief in a side,
or you behave responsibly and remain neutral and objective..
"


So either "behave responsibly and remain neutral and objective", or continue to "takes sides because of passionate belief in a side"


But you can still answer the question:

For the Israelis, this would mean letting the demonstrators overrun the border and kill all the Jews ( the stated purpose).

For the Palestinian, this would entail keeping back from the border and NOT attacking the Israeli troops, or throwing rocks, grenades, burning tires, et al.

So WHICH side has control of "peace"?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:19 AM

Bruce - That's disappointing...
I was hoping from our recent acquaintance that you might be a more sensible and rational debater than K & bob;
which is why I adopted a default position of polite respect towards you,
refraining from the disdain that they so rightly deserve...

oh well....

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:15 AM

Mr Shaw,

Yes, I did notice a number of your kind. Take Acme with you when you leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:10 AM

Pull out, pfr. This thread is becoming overrun by rats. Let them talk to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 18 - 10:00 AM

PFR,

"and called for peace from both sides,"

Let us look at what THIS would entail:

For the Israelis, this would mean letting the demonstrators overrun the border and kill all the Jews ( the stated purpose)

For the the Palestinian, this would entail keeping back from the border and NOT attacking the Israeli troops, or throwing rocks, grenades, burning tires, et al.

So WHICH side has control of "peace"?


I ask a question- "WHICH side has control of "peace"?"

WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER?


Pick one, and stop being a shill for the Fascist supporting JC, who BY HIS OWN STANDARDS supports the Irish support of the Nazis in WWII- HE NEVER WOULD ADMIT IT, when presented with documented facts, NOR APOLOGIZE AND CONDEMN it. Since HE uses that standard on the rest of us, it applies IN SPADES to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 15 May 18 - 09:56 AM

To add to what Bruce posted; President Obama went further than Trump in his declaration that Jerusalem not only remain the capital of Israel, but that it remain undivided. Trump left the status of East Jerusalem open to negotiation.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 09:50 AM

Bruce - take that up with the British House of Commons...
who were today debating the ultra lethal calibre of the shoot to kill and maim bullets,
and calling for an enquiry...

On our British news yesterday, I saw a long processional march of right wing zealot Jewish thugs
goading Arab residents on the doorsteps of their own homes in an old narrow street...
[presumably in Jerusalem...???}

To British eyes they looked every bit like a hateful tribal gang of EDL and N.Irish Protestant marchers....

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 18 - 09:34 AM

PFR,

"and called for peace from both sides,"

Let us look at what THIS would entail:

For the Israelis, this would mean letting the demonstrators overrun the border and kill all the Jews ( the stated purpose)

For the the Palestinian, this would entail keeping back from the border and NOT attacking the Israeli troops, or throwing rocks, grenades, burning tires, et al.

So WHICH side has control of "peace"?


As for the Trump connection, the ONLY reason that the capital of Israel ( which HAS been in Jerusalem since 1950) is NOT recognized by other nations was the 1947 partition plan, refused by the Arabs. It placed that city in a special status.

This meant that the Palestinian plan to have a capital in Jerusalem COULD NOT BE CONSIDERED as long as the Israeli capital there was not recognized. NOW, the point CAN be brought up and negotiated - ONLY because Trump carried through on this.

"The United States opened an embassy to Jerusalem today at the order of President Trump, who finally fulfilled a promise former presidents made for decades.

“We will move the American embassy to the eternal capital of the Jewish people, Jerusalem,” Trump said. “Therefore, I have determined that it is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise they failed to deliver. Today I am delivering.”

President Bill Clinton said in 1992 that Jerusalem is Israel’s capital, despite the U.S. embassy being in Tel Aviv. “Jerusalem is still the capital of Israel and must remain an undivided city accessible to all,” he said.

George W. Bush promised 18 years ago, “As soon as I take office I will begin the process of moving the U.S. ambassador to the city Israel has chosen as its capital.”

“I continue to say that Jerusalem will be the capital of Israel, and I have said that before, and I will say it again,” President Barack Obama said at an AIPAC conference. “And Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”"

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 09:32 AM

DtG - Having a justified go at our resident befuddled 'religious right' buffon
gets my brain warmed up while I'm waking to a new day,
and waiting for the strong black tea to kick in...

... bit like 20 sit ups and push ups for the old grey matter...

He also comes in handy for amusement & distraction when my bowels are playing up later in the day...

He's cheaper than a prescription...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 15 May 18 - 09:31 AM

I understand, it's difficult to dispute factual evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 May 18 - 09:27 AM

Nope, I'm not biting. There is no discussing this with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 15 May 18 - 09:25 AM

They don't crave the deaths of Israelis

Read the Charter of Hamas.

they crave the return of their land.

Which land would that be?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 18 - 09:22 AM

And to make matters even worse -

Trump threw a match into Jerusalem with no plan to put out the fire

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 May 18 - 08:58 AM

Bull. Shit. You're such an apologist for the misbehavior of Israel. They don't crave the deaths of Israelis, they crave the return of their land. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 15 May 18 - 08:55 AM

The actions at the border are being taken to prevent a massacre. Truth is, in the eyes of the world, the only acceptable Israeli action is to allow the Hamas demonstration to breach the border. To let them reach an Israeli town. To have them slaughter Jewish civilians. Then we'd have their sympathy and the headlines would be kinder.
No thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 18 - 08:47 AM

Learn from those of us who have had years of experience of this, PFR. Just don't engage him. He will 'win' at any cost, including his own self respect and the sanity of all around.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 08:38 AM

Pathetic.. I've wasted enough time today...

You grasp onto any petty pedantic point,
arguing and talking back like a precocious child desperate to save itself from blame...

you really can't see the wood for the trees..

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 18 - 08:27 AM

PFR,
So don't insult me personally with your wild hysterical false accusations of being anti Israel...

You admit it yourself.
You describe it as "an abhorrent rogue regime."
That is about as anti as it gets.

The goodest and best of the Israeli population have my fullest sympathy and respect...

Good. Most Israelis support their government on this.

...and if you had just been watching "Live from the Commons"
and followed the sane rational civilised exchange between Emily Thornberry [lab] and Alistair Burt [con];
where both expressed mutual sorrow for the victims,

I have been following, and agree with everything said.
What do you imagine I might disagree with?

you'd realise just how out of touch with reality and full of shite you make yourself look to all the rest of us.....

Yes, that is how you extremists view mainstream opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 08:10 AM

...and if you had just been watching "Live from the Commons"
and followed the sane rational civilised exchange between Emily Thornberry [lab] and Alistair Burt [con];
where both expressed mutual sorrow for the victims,
questioned Israel's apparent shoot to kill orders utilizing excessively devastatingly injurious amunition,
and called for peace from both sides,
you'd realise just how out of touch with reality and full of shite you make yourself look to all the rest of us.....

They readily contradict all your 'detached' lofty fabricated statements...

Any decent minded informed reader will easily see you for what you are...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 07:12 AM

Plus remember, unlike you and bob, I actually have a blood link to Jews and Israel,
and a family lineage in Poland that came to an abrupt end...

So don't insult me personally with your wild hysterical false accusations of being anti Israel....

The goodest and best of the Israeli population have my fullest sympathy and respect...

The fanatical militarised religious thug zealots have my contempt...

As do you... do you understand clearly now...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 07:03 AM

That response is not good enough by any criteria...

You insult all of our intelligence.

You are running off and hiding behind your parroted prefabricated script again...

You are so obviously in denial, it's embarrassing to watch...

The only state I am anti, is a state of murderous intolerant zealotry...!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 18 - 07:03 AM

PFR,
you of PUBLICLY SUPPORTING AN ABHORRENT ROGUE REGIME

It is an extreme view that Israel is "an abhorrent regime" PFR.
It is not regarded as such by any liberal democracy or even the UK Labour Party.
That shows how extreme your views actually are PFR.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 18 - 06:56 AM

I put Israel's case as you lot all put the Palestinian case.
Like most people in the West, I do tend to sympathise with the Israeli case.

Within the Labour Party there are about 100 Labour MPs and 17 Lords who are members of Labour Friends of Israel.
http://www.lfi.org.uk/in-parliament/

Your anti-Israel views are not widely held in the West, even within the Labour Party. Mine are more mainstream.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 18 - 06:47 AM

"I just put Israel's case, as you put the Palestinian case.
How is that wrong?"

Because intelligent people don't pretend to take sides for sake of dry academic argument..
Certainly not as an excuse to absolve you of PUBLICLY SUPPORTING AN ABHORRENT ROGUE REGIME...!!!
..and certainly not while they are actively committing atrocities in the here and now..
Not eons ago in dusty history books....

You either really takes sides because of passionate belief in a side,
or you behave responsibly and remain neutral and objective..

Are you seriously surprised we all find it almost impossible to believe you...
and ridicule you ????

Grow up - and man up to what you really genuinely believe in...

I refuse to support either side and consistently condemn the fanatical zealots
causing conflict and death on both of them - yet you persistently accuse humanists like me
of being extremists...!!!??

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 18 - 06:00 AM

I just put Israel's case, as you put the Palestinian case.
How is that wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 May 18 - 05:48 AM

"Jim, no-one would defend mass murder."
You always have - masscres never happened (every time) Sabra Shatila eyewitnessses lied
You are a serial mass murder denier
Get a grip of humanity Keith - your appeasement of killers is sick
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 18 - 05:19 AM

The US will never accept the UN as the world policeman, Iains. The routine vetos shielding Israel also serve the equal function of bringing the UN into disrepute. Countries that want to be superpowers will always fart in the general direction of the UN. It isn't even a tiger, let alone a paper one.

What has happened at the Gaza border was a massacre. A crowd of mostly unarmed protesters shot at with impunity while the country's leader was making a speech about peace in his newly-usurped "capital." We've reached a new low. Let's hope there's no more to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Iains
Date: 15 May 18 - 05:08 AM

If genuine the videoclip would appear to show murder. I wonder if it will be investigated?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq0YuTzjN9U

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 18 - 04:58 AM

The Amnesty statement ignores the Israeli claim that a mass incursion was being attempted. Hamas admitted that was their aim.
Such an incursion posed an imminent threat to the lives of Jewish civilians in settlements close to the fence.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 18 - 04:51 AM

Amnest International Press Release

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 May 18 - 04:42 AM

Jim, no-one would defend mass murder.
I am not a monster and neither is Bobad or BB. We just put israel's side of the story as you put the Palestinian case. That needs to happen.

I am as horrified as you by the scenes shown yesterday. We only differ in who we think are mostly to blame for what happened.

I mostly blame those who drove or persuaded people into that killing ground. Have the demonstrations a couple of hundred yards from the fence and no-one would come to harm.

Notice there were no supportive demonstrations in other Muslim or Arab nations as we always used to see.
Notice that the West Bank Palestinians have not supported the Friday demos. of recent weeks. Also they are withhloding pay from Gazan civil servants.
Hamas is fast becoming a lost cause in the Muslim Arab world.
Many Arab states now see Iran as the main geo-political threat to the region and are seeing alliance with Israel as the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 May 18 - 04:09 AM

There is something utterly disgusting about these two (Bruce seems to have done a Brer Rabbit) defending mass murder while it is still happening - defending past ones seems to be a hobby with Keith
Israel seems to have found a true friend in Donald Trump's racist, antisemitic, misogynist, war mongering administration - the victims of the Holocaust would have been proud to have such an ally
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Iains
Date: 15 May 18 - 03:54 AM

I would suggest the statistics tell the story, all on their own. IDF 0.
Palestinians 59 killed nearly 1200 injured.
US blocks call for independent inquiry into Gaza deaths at UN.

It really is time that veto was demolished. The UN is without fangs for as long as the veto power remains.

Interesting no one comments on how differently the Israeli government is treated compared to that of Assad in Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 May 18 - 02:45 AM

Social media, which can be put up by anyone, are meaninglesst. It's the easiest thing in the world to plant propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 10:32 PM

..so basically not very substantial 'evidence' really...???

just hyped up social media chatter from an over excitable hot headed demonstrator...???


But shoot 'im just in case... that comb in his back pocket could bring down a sniper position...!!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 09:48 PM

Viral social media post on Palestinian social media the evening before today's violent riots, instructs Palestinians to act in accordance with the demand to bring "guns and knives" in order to kidnap Israeli civilians. This post was shared hundreds of times on various Palestinian social media accounts and pages, and shows premeditated intent to violence by Palestinians rioters.

Viral Palestinian Social Media PSA prior to Nakba Day Riots

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 May 18 - 07:38 PM

The meat cleaver, or whatever it was, was being used to cut the wire fence.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 07:31 PM

Were they long range laser guided meat cleavers...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 06:28 PM

"Unarmed" protesters with MEAT CLEAVERS?

WATCH: Palestinians cut through Gaza fence, clenching meat cleavers, and chant "Khaybar Khaybar" - a chant about the "army of Muhammad" killing Jews and promising to return and kill more.

Emanuel Miller writes, "...To be fair, the vast majority of the protestors are not seeking to enter Israel, and are not bearing weapons. The trouble for Israel is that the violent thugs are mingling among the civilians, making it almost impossible to isolate them.

I've served in the IDF, lived in Israel for over a decade, been near terror attacks, and has many friends who have lost loved ones to terrorism and war. And still I let out a gasp when I saw that blade.

This is what Israel is up against."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 May 18 - 05:28 PM

Bobad. The very epitome of denial and bigotry. But he has friends here. He'll be OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 05:24 PM

IDF jets on Monday morning distributed leaflets over the Gaza Strip warning Palestinian civilians not to approach the security fence. The leaflets also stressed to the Gaza residents that the Hamas terror group, which rules the Strip, was putting their lives at risk by encouraging them to commit violence and attempt to infiltrate Israel.

“Hamas is trying to hide its many failures by endangering your lives,” the leaflets said. “At the same time, Hamas is stealing your money and using it to dig tunnels at your expense.”

“Don’t be puppets in the hands of Hamas,” the IDF urged. “You deserve a better government and a better future.”

“Do not approach the security fence and do not participate in Hamas’s life-threatening farce,” the notice concludes sternly.

The IDF has dropped similar leaflets in past weeks in an attempt to minimize the border fence violence and the possibility of civilian casualties.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Iains
Date: 14 May 18 - 04:38 PM

Israeli Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan appeared to liken Palestinians killed in ongoing border protests to Nazi casualties in World War II when he tweeted about the death toll in Gaza.

Erdan said the number of Palestinians killed at Monday’s protest “doesn't indicate anything – just as the number of Nazis who died in the world war doesn't make Nazism something you can explain or understand.”

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 04:16 PM

On the day Trump's Embassy opened,
his spokesman blamed the Palestinians for provoking the disturbances...!!!!!!??????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Iains
Date: 14 May 18 - 04:00 PM

The official toll for Sharpsville was that 69 people were killed, including 8 women and 10 children, and 180 injured, including 31 women and 19 children. Many were shot in the back as they turned to flee, causing some to be paralyzed.

For Gaza
Palestinian Health Ministry officials said 55 protesters were killed and 2,700 injured either by live gunfire, tear gas or other means.

“Already more than ten children have been killed and a thousand have been hurt, many suffering from life changing injuries. According to the Ministry of Health in Gaza, there are dozens of cases of children suffering extreme injuries. These include having to have limbs amputated or have had their bones shattered by shrapnel or live ammunition. Some have been hit in the torso, face, neck and head.
"An analysis carried out last week by Save the Children and their partner organisation MAAN Development Centre, found that out of 500 injuries to children for which detailed information was obtained, 250 children (almost 50 percent) had been hit with live ammunition.

"The White House declined to join in urging Israel to exercise restraint and pinned the blame squarely on Gaza's ruling Hamas group - backing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who described the Israeli military's actions as self-defence of his country's borders."

21st century technology against stones. Massacre is really the only word that fits, although if the death toll keeps climbing perhaps ethnic cleansing would be a more apt description.

Just imagine the outrage should Assad have performed such a dastardly deed, or Russia, or Iran.

Is “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark ??”

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 02:16 PM

Jews killing muslims... what better entertainment for right wing christians...!!!???