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BS: Israel's Sharpville
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 May 18 - 11:44 AM Jim, a terrorist state that robs their fellow Jews of their birthright unless they toe the party line Obviously Israel is no terrorist state. Its neighbour Gaza is ruled by an internationally recognised terror group. What did you mean about fellow Jews robbed of their birthright? Are you making shit up again Jim? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: David Carter (UK) Date: 02 May 18 - 11:44 AM Quite a few decent nations voting for resolutions critical of Israel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 May 18 - 11:42 AM "How much time does it take?" Yes indeed.. a question the international community of 'liberal democracies' seriously needs to step up and account for... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 May 18 - 11:27 AM PFR, "If they did do it guv, they would be a pariah nation, which they are not.... yet... These things take time and international diplomacy... Jim said "Israel has been carrying out massacres for decades." How much time does it take? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 11:26 AM "Sorry JC, I have reviewed MY posts, and found no name-calling- and neither can you." I addressed you collectively as you often address us "leftires", "the pack"... whatever I happen to regard being called a "lair" name calling - I don't tell lies - you have accused me of doing so several times You have screamed "jew hater" at me often enough All this is a bit of a face-saving diversion I think "but compared to the quality of the 2 or 3 we have left, I miss Teribus... " He did at least make an effort - little sign of that here Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 May 18 - 11:25 AM Bruce - depends if you follow K****'s line of mangled thinking and severely blinkered vision...??? To be fair, I've not really had enough contact with you to work out my own frame of reference on how to relate to you...??? On present encounter, you seem a more complex sophisticated thinker than K & b...??? That'd be more stimulating for me.. and I have seen you up in the "Gibson Thread".. so that bodes well... For instance, down here in BS, me and Bonzo are age old adversaries... upstairs in music we are kind of mates... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 02 May 18 - 10:50 AM I am responsible for MY posts, as you are for your's. Do I blame YOU for JC's comments? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 May 18 - 10:43 AM Today's word is "disingenuous"... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 May 18 - 10:41 AM Bruce - errrmmm.. you neglected to mention K & b's posts...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 02 May 18 - 10:34 AM Sorry JC, I have reviewed MY posts, and found no name-calling- and neither can you. But you should read your own posts- and see how many unsupported accusations the rest of us find in them. Your opinions , it appears. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 May 18 - 10:33 AM Jim - sorry to say this in public, but compared to the quality of the 2 or 3 we have left, I miss Teribus... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 10:30 AM "Please post the details, if you can. " Go read up the postings - including your own I think we're finished as far as y three are concerned, don't you? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 02 May 18 - 10:27 AM Namecalling, JC? Please post the details, if you can. Thought not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 May 18 - 10:21 AM To quote Bob Dylan 'And the Germans now too have God on their side' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 May 18 - 10:13 AM "If they did do it guv, they would be a pariah nation, which they are not.... yet... These things take time and international diplomacy... South Africa - our pals... -> South Africa - actually we just realised they're really really bad guys, boycott them...!!! -> South Africa - hooray they responded to International pressure and stopped being baddies, they're our pals again... [PFR - studied an International Relations module in year 1 degree - 1982..] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 02 May 18 - 10:04 AM You're in fine form today Keith.......lol. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 10:03 AM Still no response - even in a three-to-one contest Your "Contribution to World Peace" appears to be supporting a terrorist state that robs their fellow Jews of their birthright unless they toe the party line The fact that you can only do so by name-calling makes you all what you are Game, set and match (to echo Keith's reason for being here), I think Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 May 18 - 09:59 AM Jim, If you have nothing to say apard from "they didn't do it guv" I have pard. They didn't do it guv, and their friendly relations with every decent nation in the world is proof of that. If they did do it guv, they would be a pariah nation, which they are not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 02 May 18 - 09:40 AM JC has no sense of humor- and it is something that ALL of us have done, on occasion. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 02 May 18 - 09:31 AM Not appropriate to use typos against JC- there are more valid points to use. It was a joke - gave me a chuckle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 02 May 18 - 09:23 AM And I say: You have had the chance to drive my arguments into the ground - you can't, so they stand. So we each walk away winners. What a true contribution to World Peace you have made. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 09:22 AM Unless of ourse you are arguing that Isreal is no different than those you have listed in its criminal activities - I'm sure you are not Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 09:20 AM " say nothing -" Say nothing seems to sum it up - you have had my opinion - feel free to challenge it "No comment" is the advice lawyers give to their criminal clients You have the chance to dive my arguments into the ground - if you can't, they stand Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 02 May 18 - 09:05 AM Keith, Not appropriate to use typos against JC- there are more valid points to use. JC, If YOU have nothing to say apart from "they did it, guv" - say nothing - thread- Egypt blockading and killing Palestinians- JC: " But Israel..." thread- Jordan killing Palestinians- JC: " But Israel..." thread- Lebanon killing Palestinians- JC: " But Israel..." thread- Syria killing Palestinians- JC: " But Israel..." thread- Palestinians killing Palestinians- JC: " But Israel..." Thread- Arab League putting Palestinians into camps for 70 years- JC: " But Israel..." thread- Arab League nations driving out more Jews than Israel have Palestinian Arabs leave- " But Israel..." I think we got your opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 08:55 AM "fat shaming" Never mentioned your weight Keith If you have nothing to say apard from "they didn't do it guv" - say nothing - Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 May 18 - 07:56 AM ...and stop fat shaming. It is not big or clever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 May 18 - 07:54 AM Jim, just in case anyone missed it, please repeat something I posted that was ignorant. My last post was just hard facts, and you could not challenge one of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 06:23 AM Nope Keith I don't The only value in responding to you is to expose your ignorance and you do a far better job of that than I or anybody else can as you have just illustrated with your above posting If it's all the same with you, I'll wait to see if anybody comes along with real argument - no takers so fat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 May 18 - 06:18 AM And you more than propaganda Jim. If Israel was guilty of massacres it would be a pariah among decent nations. In fact it has good relations with every other liberal democracy in the world. Do you challenge anything I just said about Gaza? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 04:56 AM You want a part of this Keith you have to come up with more than denial of facts Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 May 18 - 04:55 AM The current Gaza situation has context. Gaza is ruled very strictly by Hamas, and nothing happens there that they do not want to happen. There could be no spontaneous mass demonstrations about anything. Hamas is desperate to get its fighters across the border to kill Jews. They have achieved that in the past by covertly cutting through and have even dug tunnels under it. Israel has to consider that the mass demos are just a cover for more cross border Jew killing operations. They dare not allow a mass incursion into Israel. Quite rightly, some Western nations are investigating the shootings to ensure they were justified. Jim, Israel has been carrying out massacres for decades No it has not. If it had it would be a pariah among decent nations. In fact it has good relations with every liberal democracy in the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 May 18 - 03:25 AM (Bobab, Bruce and Keith - and whomever else it may concern) Our discussions here are over - now you have reverted to personal abuse this thread can have no future, which will suit your inability to put up an intelligent case for what is happening in Israel at present. You have made quite clear that your agendas have nothing to do with the Jewish People, but rather, to defend the actions of what has gradually become an ultra right wing State None of you are prepared to defend the obvious antisemitism by one of your number that blew the gaff on your real intentions, so now that has been placed in the open let's move on. there can be little defence of the openly extreme behaviour of what is happening on the Israeli/Gazan border anyway, as your "what about" shift to Syria has shown. It is about time the world began to question whether Israel has become a fully-fledged antisemitic state. Jews who do not support the extremist right-wing behaviour of the Israeli Administration have now had their 'Jewishness' stripped from them by Israeli politicians and have been declared "non-Jews" or "self-hating" or "self loathing Jews" – they have been stripped of their cultural identity by a political party – that is not just antsemitic, but it an act of Facism for any political group to question the cultural validity of huge groups of people because they will not ‘toe the party line’ At first it was the actions of groups of extremists, but when Justice Minister, Ayelet Shaked, declared it publicly and was not sacked for doing so, it became official party policy For some time now the very language to describe the Jewish opponents of Israel is reminiscent of that used by the Nazis in the 1930s In a review of his book in an Isreali newspaper, ‘The Iron Wall’, Professor Avi Shlaim is described as “Slyme” – straight out of the Nazi propaganda press. The leadership of Israel is now allying itself with antisemites like VIKTOR ORBAN in HUNGARY and drawing support from Europe’s far right SUCH AS GERMAN FASCIST GROUPS The Government had declared it will name the main station of its planned underground railway in Jerusalem afterANTI SEMITIC DONALD TRUMP There is something rotten in the State of Israel; it’s about time that was discussed rather than pointing fingers at the extremist behaviour of other states to avoid what is happening on the Gazan/Israeli border Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 01 May 18 - 10:29 PM Palestinians being slaughtered in Syria. Question: Why no action by UNHRC. Carroll: because Israel. There you have it folks, Carroll shows his true colours again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 May 18 - 07:22 PM What on earth has the present massacre taking place to do with what Assad is doing Israel has been carrying out massacres for decades - they have never been brought to trial for a single one of them - WHY ETHNIC CLEANSING ? HERE'S WHY One thing you people have established beyond doubt that the Antisemitism being discussed at tpresent has nothing to do with the Jewish People and everything to do with the war crimes and human rights abuses carried out by Israel Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 01 May 18 - 04:11 PM Palestinians victimized by Assad's massacres in Syria: • Killed: 3,729 • Missing: 309 • Imprisoned: 1,674 • Displaced: 120,000 UNHRC action for these Palestinians: • Resolutions: 0 • Emergency Sessions: 0 • Commissions of Inquiry: 0 Why? https://t.co/qhSjGkvMYA |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 May 18 - 02:37 PM PFR, k**** are clucking whilst evading and deflecting from answering direct questions.. I was not aware that I had failed to answer any direct questions. Sorry if I have. Remind me what they were and I will give them my full attention and answer as best as I can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 01 May 18 - 12:27 PM "You want me to post more??"... Please do to relieve the monotony of the K & b repetitive loop..... "Don't you READ the thread you are commenting on?" Yes.. every single word...!!! I limit the number of BS threads I participate in to give the ones that really take my interest my full concentration... No word escapes me.. which is why I moan so much about overlong bloated unfocused posts... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 May 18 - 12:19 PM The first credential needed from a defender of the Jewish people is the willingness to criticise Antisemitism even when it comes from a friend - present company fell at that fence Jim More wisdom from Hajo Meyer Auschwitz survivor, Hajo Meyer, used a speech to encourage support for the international campaign for boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel. Approximately 100 people attended the meeting in The Grosvenor Hall, Belfast on Friday 29 January 2010. During his speech, Meyer condemned the misuse of the holocaust for political purposes and compared Israel's treatment of Palestinians today to Nazi treatment of Jews before and during the second world war. The meeting, to be repeated in Dublin on Saturday 30 January, concludes a month-long series of events organised by the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign to mark the first anniversary of Israel's invasion of Gaza in December 2008. Prior to arriving in Ireland, Meyer had spent the previous week on a speaking tour in Scotland and England organised by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network. In February, Meyer is to continue his speaking tour in France, Austria and Germany. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 01 May 18 - 12:09 PM First post just after YOUR first post. Hello back at you. Don't you READ the thread you are commenting on? Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce - PM Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:09 PM This is my 15th post here. That is 8.6% of the total posts You want me to post more?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 May 18 - 12:07 PM hey really are no going to respond to the fact that Israel is now openly slaughtering unarmed demonstrators are they PKR Let's give Holocausret survivor the last word By Hajo Meyer I was 20 years old when Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviet army 55 years ago. This occurred just in time because 10 months imprisonment in Auschwitz-Gleiwitz-1 had weakened me considerably. One needed a hell of a lot of luck in order to survive that long under the circumstances in that camp. Two important components of luck were on my side. First, during my first years as a refugee kid in the Netherlands I had learned to be a locksmith. So during the very strong winter of ‘44-‘45 I worked in the warmth of a factory. Second, I had acquired a very good and completely trustworthy friend, called Jos. We helped each other as much as possible. The two of us did indeed survive. Another aspect of my friendship with Jos was that in spite of — or better, due to — the extremely high number of people per square foot in such a camp, one felt extremely lonely. Because of our friendship, mutual help and absolute mutual trust we were not lonely. This was vital to our psychological survival. Psychological survival is at least as important as physical survival. In fact, the Nazi concentration camps were their attempt to dehumanize us Jews. If a prisoner became part of the oppression system by being Kapo, the dehumanization would be successful. Obviously, the non-Jewish members of the oppression system were also no longer fully human. I realized there that anybody from a dominating group who tries to dehumanize people from a minority group, can only do so if by education, indoctrination and propaganda he has already been dehumanized himself, independent of the uniform he wears. It is a deep tragedy that in Israel this is not what one concludes from the experiences in Auschwitz. To the contrary, Auschwitz is elevated there into a new religion. “In the beginning is Auschwitz,” wrote Elie Wiesel. “Nothing should be compared to the Holocaust but everything must be related to it.” This elevation has allowed it to be exploited for political ends. All that was once most valued in a rich and varied Jewish heritage — the centrality of the ethical tradition, for instance — disappears beside the Nazi attempt at annihilation. This Holocaust religion translates in the minds of many into the impossibility that Israel can do any wrong. Auschwitz existed within history, not outside of it. The main lesson I learned there is simple: We Jews should never, ever become like our tormentors — not even to save our lives. Even at Auschwitz, I sensed that such a moral downfall would render my survival meaningless. Like most German Jews, I was raised in a secular and humanist tradition that was more antagonistic than sympathetic towards the Zionist enterprise. Since 1967 it has become obvious that political Zionism has one monolithic aim: Maximum land in Palestine with a minimum of Palestinians on it. This aim is pursued with an inexcusable cruelty as demonstrated during the assault on Gaza. The cruelty is explicitly formulated in the Dahiye doctrine of the military and morally supported by the Holocaust religion. I am pained by the parallels I observe between my experiences in Germany prior to 1939 and those suffered by Palestinians today. I cannot help but hear echoes of the Nazi mythos of “blood and soil” in the rhetoric of settler fundamentalism which claims a sacred right to all the lands of biblical Judea and Samaria. The various forms of collective punishment visited upon the Palestinian people — coerced ghettoization behind a “security wall”; the bulldozing of homes and destruction of fields; the bombing of schools, mosques, and government buildings; an economic blockade that deprives people of the water, food, medicine, education and the basic necessities for dignified survival — force me to recall the deprivations and humiliations that I experienced in my youth. This century-long process of oppression means unimaginable suffering for Palestinians. It is not too late to learn a different lesson from Auschwitz. For example, in the last year, the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network has become a means for many — including young Jews in the United States — to challenge the precepts of Zionism and support the Palestinian call for boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel. Their goal, and mine, is to challenge the dispossession and exclusivity of a Jewish state, in their names and in mine. They understand the urgency of the classical Jewish concept of teshuvah, return from the wrong road. Further, they understand that the pursuit of justice and making ethically positive sense out of senseless suffering is not only part of an ancient Jewish interpretation and shaping of history, but is crucial for all of us in creating the world we want to live in, and to our moral survival. Hajo Meyer is the author of The End of Judaism: An Ethical Tradition Betrayed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 May 18 - 12:01 PM k**** are clucking whilst evading and deflecting from answering direct questions.. I was not aware that I had failed to answer any direct questions. Sorry if I have. Remind me what they were and I will give them my full attention and answer as best as I can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 01 May 18 - 11:54 AM Bruce - feel free... I'm not possessive or bothered about copyright intellectual bollocks.. why not also add it to the list of stock scripted replies K**** relies on.. at least I'll provide some stylistic variety .. oh and ..hello.. So bob and k**** are clucking whilst evading and deflecting from answering direct questions.. and now it seems you suddenly ride into the rescue...!!!??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 01 May 18 - 11:41 AM my " |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: beardedbruce Date: 01 May 18 - 11:39 AM Let me see: "That response is laughable... A mangled jumbled cut and paste collage of all your favorite stock scripted answers... If I was Seriously man, think before you type and post... Personally, I almost feel pity for But please do carry on undermining your own credibility.." PFR, do you really think that your last post actually addressed the one criticized? I intend to use YOUR post ( as I have shown above) WHENEVER a post is not what I want to hear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 May 18 - 11:32 AM PFR, I do not remember you previously asking about my non-Jewishness, and I am not offended to be asked anyway. I am just surprised that you consider it to be relevant. You have just denigrated my post at length, but without identifying a single statement that is at fault. Please help me to improve by actually saying what you think is wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 01 May 18 - 11:20 AM Keith - I'll temporarily break silence for a moment and address you by name... That response is laughable... A mangled jumbled cut and paste collage of all your favorite stock scripted answers... If I was bob, I'd be deeply embarrassed to have you side by side with me on the same team... Seriously man, think before you type and post... Personally, I almost feel pity for bob.. But please do carry on undermining your own credibility... Btw.. I remember the last time you took offense when I asked you directly if you were even the slightest bit jewish [like me and my little 1/4]... hmmmmm...????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 May 18 - 11:05 AM PFR, if you mean people like Bobad and me, we do not start these Israel threads. You on the Far-Left start them and express extreme views that few can agree with, but most people avoid disgreeing with you because you are so many and so beligerant. Why bring our ethnic backround up PFR? How is that relevant. Worst place in the world...??? well I know I'd never say that about Israel.. A chap really shouldn't make such stupidly malignant sweeping statements No chap did PFR. I said, "The real question is why you on the Left single out Israel as if it was the worst place in the world," Why do you attack Israel so much more than any other country? and as for "ignoring the much worse shortcomings of Israel's enemies and neighbours" Can't say I've ever done that either.. Yes you have. You do not post about human rights abuses in Arab or Islamic states. Only Israel. Your extreme Left Wing views are not widely held. I have never expressed a Right Wing view. Just main stream moderate views that only appear Right Wing from your Far Left perspective. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 01 May 18 - 11:00 AM Jim and me "cronies"...??? ..only in the sense of two blokes who only know each other's faces enough to say hello, sat at different tables in a pub; who both end up in the same silly arguments with another two blokes sat together in a dark corner, who are even dafter than they are... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: bobad Date: 01 May 18 - 10:28 AM PFR Seriously.. just what are the real motives and objectives of such ardent non jewish/Israeli supporters of the Israeli regime...?????? Hmm...............supporters of the Israeli "regime"......I think not. PFR nasty trick of the far right... Lol.....if that's where you are trying to imply I am politically you are way off. You have absolutely no idea about my political position because I have never articulated one here. If you want to see someone Dismissively marginalising inconvenient alternative viewpoints I suggest you look no further than your crony Carroll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville From: punkfolkrocker Date: 01 May 18 - 10:11 AM Jim - yeah.. a non jew/Israeli screaching out dismissive insults of 'fringe jew' and 'jew extremist' does sound... welll.. a bit dubious.. ..errr... a bit anti sem... oh what what was that word... it's on the tip of my tongue... |