BS: Israel's Sharpville

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 04:07 AM

"Your parroting of the Soviet line"
If you rose your level of understanding above the "HORRIBLE HISTORIES" level you would be aware that that argument was not "the Soviet Line" - on the contrary...
I'm just about coming to the end of my fourth book specifically on Stalin, (one of the others was a four volume work on "The Great Terror" period of Soviet history
I don't support Stalin or his actions - I never have - but I do want to understand what went wrong with a dream to change the world and that brought massive changes for the better for those who attempted it - yet still failed and became corrupted repressive States
Describing Stalin as a "killer" is stupidly facile and pointless - it is political rhetoric from a period when the world was fighting for control over people's minds - the word you used "pathetic" sums up the level of your discussion so far perfectly
Whose line do you take on Stalin - Isaac Deucher's, Robert Conquest's, Simin Seabag Montifiori's, Leon Trotsky's, Stephen Kotkin's.... ?
All these have produced large, detailed studies of Stalin and that period of history - all are critics and/or outright opponents of his policies - all come up with differing conclusions - and you want to discuss him on the "murderer of his people" level?
Are you joking?
If you have any argument with my quote (one that roughly corresponds generally with the views of all the authors I mentioned) - why not come up with an analysis of your own
The slaughter of livestock and the destruction of crops by Kulaks in the middle of a famine is not "the Soviet line" - it is a fact of history - go read it up
Stalin's handling of the famine was appalling - his wife Nadia committed suicide because of the guilt she felt about it
Stalin didn't slaughter his people - he slaughtered the bureaucracy that opposed him - his people adored him because they had no idea what was going on
Rather than 'The Great Terror' being Bolshevik' or 'Communist' it was the opposite - it was a policy that removed (exile or execute) the Bolsheviks and replaced them with mindless yes-men
Despite all this, and despite the aftermath of a horrific World War over which of the European Royal families should own which bit of the world, a Civil War and another World War... what had been a backward and primitive Empire of uneducated and poverty-stricken serfs became a wealthy and powerful contender on the world stage in less that forty years
Stalin was a murderous despot - he did not represent Marxism, Bolshevism or Communism - he represented himself and he helped
kill off a dream of change and replacement with Western supported Putin, who, although regarded as "freeing Russia from the chains of communism" is now as bad as anything Stalinism ever turned up and 100% more dangerous a threat to the planet than the old Soviet Regime ever was - a true representative of what the modern world has now become.
You want to discuss Stalin - do so on this level and stop throwing outdated meaningless slogans at me
Why am I bothering discussing anything with somebody who hasn't the decency to condemn antisemitism when it come up and bites his arse, I ask myself?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 04:34 AM

By the way Robo
If you are serious about discussing Stalin, the first thing to remember is that he was a despot who was not approved of by Western leaders as distinct from all those who were
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 May 18 - 09:15 AM

Bobad,

You are conflating again.

If Hamas and Hezbollah were calling for the extermination of, or collective punishment for, Jews, then supporting them would be antisemitic.

If they are calling for the replacement of Israel by a single secular state, or by two states divided according to the pre-1967 borders then it would not.

And don't begin to conflate Hamas with Hezbollah, the former are Sunni, the latter Shia, and the Shia restrict the concept of Jihad to what they perceive as their local environs. Every major muslim terrorist organisation operating in the west is Sunni.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 10:28 AM

David, Hamas is Sunni but is armed and financed by Shia Iran.
They do not want any Jews in Palestine and call for the killing of all Jews everywhere.
They have killed many Jews already in indiscriminate attacks on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:01 AM

If they are calling for the replacement of Israel by a single secular state, or by two states divided according to the pre-1967 borders then it would not.

Which is, of course, not what they are calling for. What they are calling for is the destruction of Israel by armed jihad and for it to be replaced by an Islamic state.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:07 AM

"They have killed many Jews"
SINCE 2005, 23 OUT OF EVERY 24 CONFLICT DEATHS HAVE BEEN PALESTINIAN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:36 AM

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, and is financed from the Gulf States, notably Qatar. Whoever is claiming that Iran is financing Hamas is talking out of their backside.

Bobad, even if they were calling for that it still would not be anti-semitic. It wouldn't be right, but it would be aimed at Israel, not Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 07 May 18 - 12:01 PM

Whoever is claiming that Iran is financing Hamas is talking out of their backside.

Hm..........who's talking out of their backside?

GAZA (Reuters) - Hamas and Iran have patched up relations, the Palestinian militant group’s new leader in Gaza said on Monday, and Tehran is again its biggest backer after years of tension over the civil war in Syria.

“Relations with Iran are excellent and Iran is the largest supporter of the Izz el-Deen al-Qassam Brigades with money and arms,” Yehya al-Sinwar, referring to Hamas’s armed wing, told reporters.

Reuters

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 12:51 PM

Thanks Bobad.
David, seeking to destroy the only Jewish state is regarded as anti-Semitic.

You are not alone in not recognising anti-Semitism.
Steve, Jim and Dave have all denied clear examples of it, e.g. the mural, Naz Shah's comments, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 01:18 PM

"seeking to destroy the only Jewish state is regarded as anti-Semitic."
So is blaming the Jews for the crimes of Israel
You people do nothing but - so does Israel
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 01:24 PM

Eg
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.,
JERUSALEM POST
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 May 18 - 02:04 PM

Yes, there are people such as the IHRA who include anti-zionism in their definition of anti-semitism. Its a view, but its not everybody's view.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: robomatic
Date: 07 May 18 - 02:25 PM

(Taking a pause on the Stalin mini-thread since you talked past my point)

Interesting article referenced above from JPost. It correlates to the anti-Semitic speech of Mahmoud Abbas (see above, my previous postings) which relate his and his fellow Palestinians' anti-Zionism to their anti-Semitism.
It also relates to your constant references to Israel's 'regime' as if it were a banana republic and your constant use of the term 'you people'.
The term in that article: 'earned the right to kill Jews' resonates from the Achille Lauro affair to the terrorism during the '68 Olympics to the Entebbe Affair to the spate of rocket attacks out of Gaza and the Iranian arming of the Hezbollah going on right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 02:25 PM

Most democracies do. Our government police and all main political parties including Labour do.

Apart from you, Steve, Jim and Dave, who else does not?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 02:29 PM

Sorry, cross posting.

David,
Yes, there are people such as the IHRA who include anti-zionism in their definition of anti-semitism. Its a view, but its not everybody's view.

All decent democracies do accept that definition. Our government, police and all the main political parties including Labour do.

Apart from you, Steve, Jim and Dave, who else does not?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 May 18 - 02:31 PM

The UN doesn't seem to.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 03:08 PM

" but its not everybody's view."
It's Israel's that nice Israeli justice minister and the Jeruaslem Post said so and Netenyahu calls those who disagree with his policy "non-Jews" or self loathing Jews... to attempt to rob anybody of their racial or cultural identity because they won't toe the party line is fascism by definition
"Our government, police and all the main political parties including Labour do.
The definition of antisemitism has been changed several times to suit Israeli terrorism, just as the wishes of the United Nations nave been vetoed by on state so Israel does not have to face their crimes - that is fascism too
"No I didn't - you didn't make a point and I doubt if you ever will
Your point on Israel has sidestepped every single argument that has been put up
Israel is the most powerful state in the middle East with nuclear weapons to back them up - any threats to Israel are no more than empty gestures
Israel is actually doing what others can only ever threaten to do
At the present time they are mass-murdering Palestinians
You have the figures of how many they have hilled down the years
SINCE 2005, 23 OUT OF EVERY 24 CONFLICT DEATHS HAVE BEEN PALESTINIAN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 04:30 AM

The UN doesn't seem to.

All its liberal democracies do.

At the present time they are mass-murdering Palestinians

Of course they are not.
That is an extreme view held only by the far Left.
No liberal government or UK party believes such nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 18 - 04:49 AM

From the UK Governments report on antisemitism

A proposed amended definition

22.The Macpherson definition that, for recording purposes, a racist incident is one “perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person” is a good working definition, which provides a strong basis for investigation. As such, the perceptions of Jewish people—both collectively and individually, as an alleged victim—should be the starting point of any investigation into antisemitism. However, for an incident to be found to be antisemitic, or for a perpetrator to be prosecuted for a criminal offence that was motivated or aggravated by antisemitism, requires more than just the victim’s perception that it was antisemitic. It also requires evidence, and it requires that someone other than the victim makes an objective interpretation of that evidence. The difficulty of making such a determination in the face of conflicting interpretations underlines the importance of establishing an agreed definition of antisemitism.

23.It is clear that where criticism of the Israeli Government is concerned, context is vital. Israel is an ally of the UK Government and is generally regarded as a liberal democracy, in which the actions of the Government are openly debated and critiqued by its citizens. Campaigners for Palestinian rights have informed us that they would expect similar standards of conduct from the Israeli Government as they would demand from the UK Government. It is important that non-Israelis with knowledge and understanding of the region should not be excluded from criticising the Israeli Government, in common with the many citizens of Israel who are amongst its strongest critics, including human rights organisations in that country.

24.We broadly accept the IHRA definition, but propose two additional clarifications to ensure that freedom of speech is maintained in the context of discourse about Israel and Palestine, without allowing antisemitism to permeate any debate. The definition should include the following statements:

    It is not antisemitic to criticise the Government of Israel, without additional evidence to suggest antisemitic intent.
    It is not antisemitic to hold the Israeli Government to the same standards as other liberal democracies, or to take a particular interest in the Israeli Government’s policies or actions, without additional evidence to suggest antisemitic intent.

25.We recommend that the IHRA definition, with our additional caveats, should be formally adopted by the UK Government, law enforcement agencies and all political parties, to assist them in determining whether or not an incident or discourse can be regarded as antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 05:02 AM

Thanks for confirming my statement Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 18 - 05:08 AM

25.We recommend that the IHRA definition, with our additional caveats, should be formally adopted by the UK Government, law enforcement agencies and all political parties, to assist them in determining whether or not an incident or discourse can be regarded as antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 05:12 AM

My statements have assumed those caveats.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 05:18 AM

Were those recommendations even accepted Dave?
No mention of them here,
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/12/antisemitism-definition-government-combat-hate-crime-jews-israel

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:46 AM

"recommendations"
An interesting contradiction is highlighted in a letter linked to Keith's link - a letter from a member of The House of Lords

"Deplorable though the Netanyahu government’s settlement policy is, the description by the usual pro-BDS suspects of Israel as “an apartheid state” is ludicrous........"
Jeremy Beecham
Labour, House of Lords

How does that statement fit in with THIS ?
In the link, the writer says it is not antisemitic to criticise Israel
How does THIS
fit in?
The term 'antisemitism' has been re-defined so many times that it is impossible to distinguish between critiscism of Israel and attacks on the Jewish People - Jews have been used as pawns to defend war crimes and atrocities and so have become targets of those appalled at Israeli behaviour - which may work out well for the Netanyahu regime, but the rise in genuine antisemitism it has unleashed puts the Jewish people in an extremely dangerous position, given the swing to the extreme right in Europe and America
The latest definition no longer includes this clause: "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.", which is proof positive that these re-definitions are to protect the Israeli Government - not the Jewish People
The only workable definition is "Unfair critiscism of and attacks on the Jewish People"
The only British politicians ever to have been guilty of that are The Tories, Mosely's British Union of Fascists (BUF) and extremist rightists like the NF and the BNP
The Labour Party have never had a serious problem with antisemitism - attacks of the Jewish People are a manifestation of right-wing politics - not left
Corbyn, as a responsible politician, has been forced to negotiate with Jewish members of the Labour Party thanks to Israeli infiltration which has been proved beyond dounbt by an admission by an Israeli agent (linked above)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:49 AM

Sorry - two links didn't work in that posting - am reposting (if a forum fairy is available, please delete the above
Jim Carroll

"recommendations"
An interesting contradiction is highlighted in a letter linked to Keith's link - a letter from a member of The House of Lords

"Deplorable though the Netanyahu government’s settlement policy is, the description by the usual pro-BDS suspects of Israel as “an apartheid state” is ludicrous........"
Jeremy Beecham
Labour, House of Lords

How does that statement fit in with THIS ?
In the link, the writer says it is not antisemitic to criticise Israel
How does THIS
fit in?
The term 'antisemitism' has been re-defined so many times that it is impossible to distinguish between critiscism of Israel and attacks on the Jewish People - Jews have been used as pawns to defend war crimes and atrocities and so have become targets of those appalled at Israeli behaviour - which may work out well for the Netanyahu regime, but the rise in genuine antisemitism it has unleashed puts the Jewish people in an extremely dangerous position, given the swing to the extreme right in Europe and America
The latest definition no longer includes this clause: "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.", which is proof positive that these re-definitions are to protect the Israeli Government - not the Jewish People
The only workable definition is "Unfair critiscism of and attacks on the Jewish People"
The only British politicians ever to have been guilty of that are The Tories, Mosely's British Union of Fascists (BUF) and extremist rightists like the NF and the BNP
The Labour Party have never had a serious problem with antisemitism - attacks of the Jewish People are a manifestation of right-wing politics - not left
Corbyn, as a responsible politician, has been forced to negotiate with Jewish members of the Labour Party thanks to Israeli infiltration which has been proved beyond dounbt by an admission by an Israeli agent (linked above)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 09:07 AM

Jim,
The Labour Party have never had a serious problem with antisemitism
No, but they do now (according to the leadership anyway.)

"Deplorable though the Netanyahu government’s settlement policy is, the description by the usual pro-BDS suspects of Israel as “an apartheid state” is ludicrous........"
Jeremy Beecham
Labour, House of Lords

Exactly Jim.
Only extreme fanatics like you believe such ludicrous propaganda.
The Labour party certainly does not.
Who does?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 09:22 AM

"Only extreme fanatics like you believe such ludicrous propaganda."
TIMES of ISRAEL APPARENTLY DOES - MAYBE THEY ARE ANTISEMITES!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 09:27 AM

No Jim. It just published some survey findings.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 18 - 09:59 AM

I'd have thought that anyone who calls a Jew a non-Jew on account of their political opinion is making a highly-antisemitic remark.

Labour's whole problem is with disaffected ex-Blairites opportunistically pouncing on this confected ruckus about antisemitism. They mistakenly think they can win the party back to their previous right-wing position from Corbyn and they're finding all this a very useful tool. They can't split away because they remember what happened to the disreputable SDP in the 80s, the mob who helped to hand the next two, at least, elections to Thatcher on a plate (OK, Kinnock was in that mix too...). If only people such as the horrid Louise Ellman, the lying Ruth Smeeth and the long-time disreputable, complacent and unreliable Margaret Hodge, who all showed up with perfect timing before the local elections to diss Corbyn, would realise that they are being used. I note that the horrible Alastair Campbell has now fervently joined the fray.

Incidentally, Iains,

"Until Israel learns that diplomacy is not at the end of a gun barrel then stability in the Middle East is non achievable. Every major power has had to negotiate with "terrorists", what makes the regional bully on the block so different?"

Perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 18 - 10:01 AM

When I say "at least" I know that she won only two more anyway, honest...should have said Tories...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 10:12 AM

"No Jim. It just published some survey findings."
Piss off Keith
Your refual to accept what's published in The Jerusalem Post makes you more extremist than the Israeli Regime itself - wouldn't have thought that possible, even for you
You live and learn -
"I'd have thought that anyone who calls a Jew a non-Jew on account of their political opinion is making a highly-antisemitic remark."
#Bit more than that Steve
The act of the State attempting to take away the cultural identity of anybody because they criticise the political actions of the Government is defined fascism
often capitalized : Merriam-Webster definition
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 10:23 AM

Jim,
Piss off Keith
Your refual to accept what's published in The Jerusalem Post

It was just a survey Jim. They just reported it.

Steve, Corbyn himself has denied that those people are doing what you accuse them of.
He says their complaints are genuine, so why should anyone listen to a fanatical extremist like you?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 10:26 AM

From the other thread,
Mr Gwynne was asked whether anti-Semitism was being used to attack Mr Corbyn.
He replied: “No, and Jeremy has made that very clear that the notion that these are smears against the Labour Party he does not accept that.”
Mr Gwynne added: “It is perfectly acceptable for Labour MPs to call out anti-Semitism in our party and in our movement and it is incumbent on our party and on our movement to act and root it out.”
He said people needed to “acknowledge that there is an issue of anti-Semitism on the left of British politics”.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 May 18 - 10:45 AM

Steve - the unholy ghost of Maggie T still clings on guiding her acolytes...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 May 18 - 10:49 AM

.. and what sly weasel politicians say and write in public need not in any way represent their real beliefs motives...

Ask K***.. he knows all about that...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 18 - 11:01 AM

Ask K***.. he knows all about that...

I think you are wrong.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to quote what they say.
That is how they get their message across.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 May 18 - 11:10 AM

you are the slyest weasel in the land of mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 11:28 AM

"Mr Gwynne was asked whether anti-Semitism was being used to attack Mr Corbyn."
Andrew Gwynn
"During this period he was also elected chair of Labour Friends of Israel"
There goes that link again - coincidental, I'm sure !!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 11:45 AM

Corbyn is in the position of having to respond to these attacks in the best way he can while at the same time keeping his Jewish members happy - there can be no doubt whatever THAT THE ACCUSATIONS CAME FROM ISRAEL
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplomat-shai-masot-plotted-against-mps-set-up-political-groups-labour
That's proof positive if nothing is
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 May 18 - 12:01 PM

Sly Weasel knows this.. he knows we know he knows this...

but he continues to display absolutely no self respect, or respect for the mudcat intelligence of the community
by persistently repeating the same pre-programmed pre-scripted drivel ad nauseum..........

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 May 18 - 12:04 PM

oops.. edit eff up - should be "intelligence of the mudcat community"

I'll blame poor attention due to tiredness and thinking about food..

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 12:09 PM

"Sly Weasel knows this.. he knows we know he knows this..."A
nybody who rejects all evidence, including that fromIsrael as “lies” is a screaming, raving bookburner
For the sake of his mental health we really should let him rot in his own atrocity denying
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 May 18 - 02:06 PM

No Keith, it was what was published in the Times of Israel which was "just a survey". Now, as Jim asked you to, please address what was published in the Jerusalem Post in the link in his post of 7th May at 01:24PM.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 18 - 04:36 AM

David, Re JP article I do not agree that all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. I think that suggestion is ludicrous.

Jim, are you claiming that Corbyn is lying when he says the complaints are not a smear, not an attack, but genuine and should be treated as such?
He is contradicting all of you.
I think he knows more about what is going on in his party than you lot do.
I choose to believe him over you.
Only a fool would not.

PFR, just more personal abuse against me with no contribution whatsoever to the debate.
Just like Greg. Remember what happened to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 18 - 05:29 AM

Don't worry, PFR, everyone else can see that your contributions are to the point and lacking in any malice. I don't think that you are any more likely to be barred from the BS section than anyone else who has posted on this thread. Even those who insult the intelligence of others and maliciously twist meanings in order to win points to add joy to their otherwise humdrum existence. I would highly recommend talking through rather than at him though. It is less likely to result in your words rebounding in a form that you did not intend ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Iains
Date: 09 May 18 - 06:51 AM

"Sly Weasel knows this.. he knows we know he knows this..."A
nybody who rejects all evidence, including that fromIsrael as “lies” is a screaming, raving bookburner
For the sake of his mental health we really should let him rot in his own atrocity denying
Jim

I think these sort of insults about a person's mental health are totally unacceptable on this forum! Are you trying to shut yet another thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 18 - 07:32 AM

To anybody interested
" are you claiming that Corbyn is lying "
This response (or lack of same) is one of the reasons I am now debating not being part of this forum any more
Keith has been answered a hundred times - he is not interested in what others have to say - he now responds to nothing
His technique of stonewalling discussion is holding these topics to ransom - it is impossible to have an intelligent discussion while he is around
The other reason I am considering not being here is I so longer think I am prepared to tolerate the racism that is allowed to be displayed - by Keith and by Iains
The latter, a serial hurler of abuse from day one has now targeted Travellers and the Mods have refused to do anything about either this or his serial abuse
Travellers have played a major part in mmy life and, I believe, have been the major reason why we still have so many songs and tales still available to us - do I want to hang around people who writes them off as litter-spreading thieves - I most certainly do not - any more than I want to hang around with racist bigots who believe that all Pakistanis are culturally implanted perverts, or Irish children are hate filled brainwashed morons or Travellers (again) are a slaveowning community - or all the other filth that has been vomited out during my time here
Iains is a racist serial bully and Keith is an obstructive, obsessive extremist hate merchant
While they are around they pollute this forum
We all need to sort out our act - a promising way this might have happened has just been closed - I see no chance of what I believe to be fatally wrong with this forum being tackled - not while some recent behaviour has fallen on deaf ears
Sorry to have interrupted - I'll let you get back to Keith and Iains
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 18 - 08:00 AM

Keith is an obstructive, obsessive extremist hate merchant

Same old lies.
Put up an extreme or hateful quote from me or shut up.
(and something from currrent threads. Not your interpretation of something said in a particular context years ago.)

My views are moderate and mainstream, and I do not do abuse.
The problem is just that I challenge your prejudices and preconceptions.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 18 - 08:12 AM

"Same old lies. "
I totally agree with you Keith
Every toime you are confronted with your behavior you deny it or blame some invented figure for having put you up to iy
These things are archived and accessible to anybody - you have been presented with them over and over again - your reaction is the same every time
As you said "same old lies"
While you continue to behave as you do this section of the forum has no future
Being told to ignore you is like being told to ignore a ripe fart
Your presence pollutes these discussion and will continue to do so until you change your disrespectful attitude to the members of this forum or you are removed
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 May 18 - 08:19 AM

"From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 04 May 18 - 09:04 AM "

See above...

ah sod it, I'll just copy and paste because village idiots need it constantly spelled out for them....
Note the print in bold italics, then think deeply how two faced and vindictive you are...
Which is how YOU make yourself look to anyone who reads your malicious nonsense from thread to threead.....

"Keith - you are a complete waste of time and drain of energy.
You are the most disruptive and despicable poster on mudcat.
You are a total hypocrite who attacks and insults freely,
yet a whining cry baby when your victims respond in kind.

YOU pretend to be interested in debating issues merely to mask your over active propagating of thinly disguised hate speech.

You have no real interest in jews,
you merely use a fake sympathy for jewish people as a convenient vehicle for pursuing your hatred/fear of muslims..."

If you are so disapproving of 'personal abuse' then stop dishing it out so frequently as if you feel you have total impunity...!!!

YOU reap what YOU sow...

As for your veiled threat about Greg...

Why.. are you going to report me to the authorities,
as if you were one of the despicable conformist cowards denouncing neighbours in WW2 Germany...?????