BS: Israel's Sharpville

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 01:34 PM

I meant 2000 of course
Musn't spoil Keith's evening

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 01:23 PM

"They have done it before."
Death toll of demonstrators now around 100 - casualties well over 200
The troops have been instructed to "shoot to kill with care"
The reporters are now reporting it as a serious massacre
Not a single Israeli hurt so far
The Israeli crowds have been chanting "there are no such people as Palestinians"
If they go on this way they will be right
Fucking fascist killers
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 01:21 PM

“Moments ago, an IDF patrol foiled a bomb-laying attack by a cell of three armed terrorists near Rafah, close to the border. This is a particularly violent protest point. The troops responded with fire at the terrorists. The terrorists were killed.”

The IDF also says an Israeli aircraft targeted a Hamas post in Jabaliya after shots were fired at Israeli troops stationed in the area. There were no Israeli casualties, the army says.

#Free Gaza from Hamas

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 18 - 01:01 PM

The threats to murder Jews are not "empty."
They have done it before.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 18 - 01:00 PM

You are that soldier defending civilian families barely a mile from the fence.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 18 - 12:48 PM

Try this. You are a soldiet, armed to the teeth with latest high tech weaponry. A bunch of unarmed civilians start shouting empty threats at you. Do you shoot and kill them?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 12:41 PM

bob - do you really think he might go that far... and they seemed such a nice family when they moved in...!!!???

I'd better read up on the Israeli Army Advance Self Defence training guide..

"Shooting Fish in a Barrel..."...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 12:37 PM

I have an ongoing border dispute with next door
and his plans to build a large extension,
encroaching invasively onto our back yard and shared alley...

So It's ok for me to lob a brick over the fence at him and his architect as a warning strike...???

You're making no sense, try this:

Your neighbour is trying to break down your fence in order to gain access to your property with the intention of killing you. Do you have the right to defend yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 12:33 PM

"You are just trying to cause friction with lies like that."
It really is stupid to deny what your two friends have just signed up to
You've managed to bring them all down
My thanks for taht
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 12:00 PM

I could probably have a higher level of debate with a genuine parrot...

Instead of a bloke who merely talks like one...

In fact Action Man Talking Commander, and a petting zoo parrot
both most likely have more varied vocabulary and expressive range of responses...???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 18 - 11:43 AM

Jim,
cheer on the slaughter of demonstrators

No-one has done that.

The type that thinks songs demanding the killing of Jews "funny

No-one does.
You are just trying to cause friction with lies like that.
I will not rise to it.

PFR,
Just more personal stuff from you, but still nothing relevant to the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 11:21 AM

bob - cheers.. I'll have to remember that..

I have an ongoing border dispute with next door
and his plans to build a large extension,
encroaching invasively onto our back yard and shared alley...

So It's ok for me to lob a brick over the fence at him and his architect as a warning strike...???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 11:06 AM

get yer retaliation in first..eh...???

Self defense is not retaliation...............try another smear tactic.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 11:01 AM

bob - Judged guilty and executed before they can even commit the 'murderous' crimes they are posthumously accused of...???

get yer retaliation in first..eh...???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 10:22 AM

The Hamas terrorist group is leading and orchestrating the recent wave of violence from Gaza aimed at breaking the border fence, storming Israel with thousands of rioters and attacking Israeli civilians. Israeli is not instigating this violence and Israel has the right to self-defense.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 10:15 AM

You can both have a PARTY TONIGHT tonight
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 10:12 AM

They've done it - THEY'VE BEAT THE SHARPEVILLE RECORD Sabra Shatila olympics here they come
It takes a special type of sick bastard to cheer on the slaughter of demonstrators before the survivors have had time to drag away their dead
The type that thinks songs demanding the killing of Jews "funny" I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 09:41 AM

Aren't the victims always to blame?

Only when they are Jews, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 09:39 AM

Can we be so certain K & bob aren't actually working for the Palestinians..
They are doing their utmost to undermine and discredit supporters of Israel...???

At least one of them reminds me of vintage Action Man and Barbie dolls..
The one's where you'd pull a string in the back
to hear the same few limited prerecorded statements, over and over again,
until parents got sick of the sound and hid them under the stairs...

"Hello, my name is K***.. You LIARS on the Far-Left express extreme views..
You are extreme left enemies of western democracy...... Would you like to be my friend, we can play together.."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 09:18 AM

On cue again
Aren't the victims always to blame?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 08:32 AM

Israel, like any other country, has the right to protect its citizens from being massacred by hordes of terrorists breaching its border in order to carry out that massacre.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 18 - 08:23 AM

Only to you Jim. Who shares your extreme view?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 08:06 AM

25 dead and over 1000 injured as the protesters approached the fence
That just about put Israel and Apartheid South Africa neck and neck in the slaughter of protesters stakes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 14 May 18 - 07:12 AM

t was cleared for publication today that Palestinians who crossed the border into Israel and were questioned by the Shin Bet revealed that Hamas sends its own members to the border in order to sabotage security infrastructure and promote violent activities. In addition, the Shin Bet uncovered that Iran transfers funds to Hamas so that it can carry out the violent protests.

Yehia Ijla, a 19-year-old Hamas member, told the Shin Bet during his interrogation that Hamas instructs members to cut the border fence and steal security cameras while dressed as civilians. Others are in charge of giving civilians tires, which are set on fire near the border to create black clouds of smoke that cover up Hamas’s terrorist acts near the fence. In addition, Hamas terrorists prepare the flaming kites, which have set fire to several Israeli fields near the border, and give them to civilians.

In the interrogation of another Gazan, the Shin Bet discovered that Hamas terrorists go undercover as civilians to try to convince children to cross the border and steal IDF equipment. On May 4, a 13-year-old boy was injured while he was trying to breach the security fence in order to steal a security camera.

JOL

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 18 - 06:51 AM

Still nothing tosay about your support for the killing of Jews and your serial appalling behaviour?

I have debunked your absurd claim about that thread from eight years ago, and it is not my behaviour that is appalling.

You raise these ancient issues because you can not defend your case today. You do exactly the same thing every time you lose an argument.

We are not here to discuss me, just the issues relevant to the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 06:04 AM

Right on cue
"Still nothing to say about the current Israel issues."
Still nothing tosay about your support for the killing of Jews and your serial appalling behaviour?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 18 - 05:43 AM

PFR,
Outing hypocrisy amd malevolent duplicity is my serious contribution to this thread...
taking the piss out of the perpetrator is very serious work...

Just personal abuse and name calling then.
Still nothing to say about the current Israel issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 May 18 - 05:39 AM

Last Friday there was "only" one death. There was less violence so less reporting.
Most people know that Israel is just trying to prevent incursion and mass murder. The outrage you express against Israel is not widely felt.

Today the embassy opening presents another excuse for violence, and then we have Nakba day. Let us hope reason and restraint prevail.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 03:56 AM

""Kites are the tip of the iceberg."
Yup - wire cutters and slingshotts are on their way
This Bullshit came from Israeli propaganda mouthpiece YT News
Israel must be quaking in its fallout shelters
Utter crap
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 18 - 02:34 AM

There remains an ominously deathly silence on what is happening on the border at present - there hasnt been any major reporting in the media since the beginning, which is indicative of the influence Israeli propaganda is having on our media
I can still remember the papers being full of similar shootings - Kent State, Sharpville, Soweto, Mai Lai - day after day on it until it became commonplace
Here, nothing - no outrage, not even information.
!00,000 Palestinians are due to march today The Times of Israel is claiming in its headlines that "hundreds plan to try breach the fence and carry out a “massacre” of Israeli civilians" - this claim comes from the same IDF who have been shooting down protesters - 40+ dead and thousands of casualties - for over a month without a single Israeli casualty to date
In fairness, they do show as evidence a four-day old photograph of a protester welding a very deadly-looking pair of wire cutters!
I hope it is not the case, but it could be a bad day today
Let's hope our press and statesmen find the time to take an interest in it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 18 - 12:49 AM

Outing hypocrisy amd malevolent duplicity is my serious contribution to this thread...

taking the piss out of the perpetrator is very serious work...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 18 - 02:48 PM

Don't be stupid Keith
Screaming "Kill the Jews" is not silly - it's dangerous and it's downright insulting to Jewish people
You've really shit in your own nest here - now you sra down to making excuses - next step will be to tell us somebody put you up to it
Your defending this dangerous garbage especially considering the tim it was written makes you the antisemite you are
You really let the cat out of the bag by the outraged manner in which you went for my "whining yids" story
"Illogical" - why
Why should you defend those bastards if you don't support them - it is exactly the type of thing they could easily have said - it echoes Ramsey's poetry prfectly
Perhaps you'd like to claim that he didn't write the stuff!!
"Now, I am here to discuss current issues over Israel, "
Not with me you're not - hopefully with nobody else (other than your fellow antisemitism appeaser
Why are you acting as if you have any authority here
PFR will post what he wishes without your sergeant major tactics
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 13 May 18 - 02:42 PM

Hamas drops all pretense of "peaceful" protest in planning mass breach of border Monday and Tuesday. Release video warning Jews:

"don't stay, the Palestinians are swarming unrestrained, and we recommend you leave without hesitation."

"Kites are the tip of the iceberg. Those who stay will bear the full consequences. You've been warned. We'll break through the border and reach all the way to your communities, and we will not die alone."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 18 - 02:12 PM

Honestly, PFR, it really is not worth it. Stare into the pit and you may get dragged in. Skip along the edge of the abyss and you may fall.

And any other cliched phrase you can think of ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 May 18 - 01:57 PM

Jim,
Why is suggesting the killing of Jews a year or so before six million were exterminated "silly" ?

That is what made it anti-Semitic. The rubbish doggerel made it silly.
It certainly did not count as evidence of your ludicrous claim that the British establishment was riddled with anti-Semitism, or justify you in claiming a quote that you had just made up? That was my point at the time.

Now, I am here to discuss current issues over Israel, not to argue over things said in unrelated threads many years ago. That is a tactic you always revert to when you have lost an argument.

PFR,
I seriously doubt you are the best qualified most credible self appointed arbiter
of what is a serious contribution to a mudcat BS thread...

OK. produce one serious contribution you actually have made.
Installing bouncy castles and petting zoos on the border?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 18 - 03:59 AM

Gentlemen - to our MUTTONS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 18 - 07:17 PM

Is-er-ail next year jerus-a-lem we won the world cup...

Eurovision.. come on if you are hard enough...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 18 - 07:05 PM

Nothing?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 18 - 03:01 PM

"It was a silly anti-Semitic song"
Why is suggesting the killing of Jews a year or so before six million were exterminated "silly" ?
Feel free to answer this Bruce - don't be shy
THank you for confirming that you believe it is "silly" to suggest killing Jews - it makes my point
Why are you still defending British fascists after the death of six million Jews ?
Feel free to answer this Bruce.
Had Hitler one the war the man you are defending might well have been in the British Government
Is that "silly" too ?
Feel free to respond to this on your own or Keith's behalf Bruce.
PLease don't disappoint me and walk away from this Bruce I would love to have you as further confirmation of the appalling people who    support Israel
The more the merrier.

"But he is his own worse enemy, "
The most sadly stupid thing about Keith is he has never learned to lie down when he's beaten
At no time has he ever walked away from a seriously inhuman and stupid statement
His "all male Pakistanis are culturally implanted" claim
Instead of throwing in the towel when he found himself alone he invents phantom "prominent people" who said the same thing - he has never produced a single person to have ever done so and had they, they would have been drummed out of any job they ever held and probably prosecuted for incitement to race hatered
Go read what he said again and tell me that would not be a criminal offence off line.
"Brainwashed Irish Schoolchildren" (again a single-hander with occasional interjections by now expelled Teribus)
I had never read Chrisine Keneally's book on Irish education - so I went off and did so
I came back and put into context what Keneally actually said
Keith, who still hasn't read the book, continues to take the line she used out of context and still accuses Irish children of being brainwashed
"Slave owning Travellers"
At no time did Keith concede that taking the actions of a few criminals as a "serious over-representation of a community numbering well over 100,000 was a stupidly bigoted thing to do
He has never withdrawn his vicious claim so it remains an example of his extremist bigotry
Tory rapists and Paedofiles and arming Assad with riot control equipment and selling him chemicals and ammunition - still part of Keith's "middle-of-the-road moderate" CV
Now, you continue to defend British fascist antisemitism and complain that it's "eight years old" so somehow subject to s statute of limitations.
So this stays on your CV too, and hopefully it will now be added to Bruce's
To defend a poem which calls for the killing of Jews a year or so before six million of them dies at the hands of the fascism Keith (and Bruce) are
defending is not only antisemitic - it is obscenely inhuman
If criticising Israel is disrespectful to the dead of the Holocaust is antisemitic - wta the **** is this viciousness?
Tell be again why it's silly - BOTH OF YOU THIS TIME
Yours in anticipation
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 May 18 - 02:35 PM

Sort of my opinion of JC.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 18 - 02:18 PM

Bruce - I hoped I made it clear that me and Jim are independent of each other in our problematic relationships with K****.
Obviously we will overlap...

I don't speak for Jim, or make a habit of backing him up.. and will criticise and disagree with him...

Over the years I've found it more practicable to mostly stay out of Jim's way
when he's bit his teeth deep into an argument and won't let go...

If it appears we are working in tandem, that's because few others are daft enough to continue with this thread,
for the moment it just seems like me and him...

We honestly are not a team...

I would rather keep overt reference to my issues with K**** confined to just this one thread,
than risk spoiling any others..

..and I would happily accept a truce with K**** if he became a more positive member of mudcat community,
and genuinely meant it...

I'm rather old school.. I'd much prefer 'enemies' I can respect...

I will say this yet again, Keith is capable of astute points, and is clearly knowledgeable.
But he is his own worse enemy,
regularly undermining his own credibility with his immature resorts to playing the innocent,
name calling, and whining when folks give him back some of his own petty treatment...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 May 18 - 01:53 PM

Denies...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 May 18 - 01:51 PM

PFR

In THIS case Keith is correct and JC is in the wrong.
No judgement on any previous interactions between you two, but to back up JC is giving credit to logic by JC that , when applied to JC, even HE deies is valid.


Just my 2 cents worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 18 - 01:50 PM

I seriously doubt you are the best qualified most credible self appointed arbiter
of what is a serious contribution to a mudcat BS thread...

..perhaps one of the most devious, narrow minded, pedantic, and hyperbolic though...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 May 18 - 01:21 PM

Jim, you opened this thread with these words,
"Can we have a rational debate on this important...."

Now here you are falsely claiming I said something anti-Semitic eight years ago, while PFR continues to post only personal stuff and name calling having never made any serious contribution to the actual debate at all!

Suggesting it was a "silly song" was an extremely antisemitic statement

It was a silly anti-Semitic song, and I said "Silly songs don't count," as evidence for your ludicrous lies.

It was not being anti-Semitic, it was rebuttal of your ludicrous lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 18 - 12:26 PM

"Yes. It was eight years ago and this was the context."
THe soing was made two years before sox million Jews were sent to their deaths - not eight years ago
Suggesting it was a "silly song" was an extremely antisemitic statement
Not so long ago you were screaming "antisemite" at a Labour politician who made a comment in her student days
Is there a time-limit on antisemitism - if so, what is it?
"That was a lie. No-one had said any such thing."
How do you know Keith
Was the feller who wrote the poem I put up incapable of making such a statement?
I said I heard this story in my youth and could not remember the politician s involved - it's hardly a statement that the press would keep on archive
Why do you continue to deny such a statement after all this time (eight years Isn't it?), when it is perfectly logical that it could have been made - if it isn't logical, please explain why
THAT IS A RHETORICAL QUESTION - YOU KEEP DOING SO BECAUSE - LIKE YOUR SUPPORTERS HERE, ANTISEMITISM IS ONLY A USEFUL ACCUSATION WHEN IT CAN BE USED AGAINST THE LEFT - IT'S PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE WHEN IT IS SPOUTED BY RIGHT-WING NUTTERS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 18 - 11:06 AM

"I find that utterly unacceptable."

I don't care.. divisive hypocrites are not entitled to 'normal' standards of respect...

"If you have time to make vile accusations, you should make the time to substantiate them."

I'll bear that in mind for if I ever make vile accusations on a par with those you habitually resort to...

For the moment I'm just sarcastically dogging your heels
to remind you that your tiresome objectionable behaviour is not going unnoticed...

You do not have free reign to slander and malign, absolved from all consequences......

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 May 18 - 10:52 AM

PFR,
The refusal to jump to your commands to substantiate
is because I have far better things to do with my time

I find that utterly unacceptable.
If you have time to make vile accusations, you should make the time to substantiate them.

If you can't back your filthy lies, keep quiet like you do on the actual subject of the thread.

Jim,
Can you explain how a song containing these verses:.....written by a British Fascist in the process of organising an alternative government for when "Herr Hitler won the war" can possibly be described as an "Unimportant silly song"

Yes. It was eight years ago and this was the context.

You stated, " one Tory Minister described it "the invention of whingeing Yids". "

That was a lie. No-one had said any such thing.

You went on to claim that the British establishment was "was riddled with Nazi sympathisers."

(Bollocks because in Parliament they voted to fight even though defeat seemed certain.)

You backed your claim with those verses and I said "Silly songs don't count," as evidence for your ludicrous lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 18 - 10:45 AM

"but counts on mere mortals being put off the herculean task of being tied up for days rummaging through it..."
Thanks to my dealings with Keith and that some of his outrageously inhuman statements are indelibly imprinted on my memory almost word-for-word (I maybe forget what I had for breakfast this morning, but I'll never forget "all male Pakistanis" and cultural implant"), it really isn't difficult to find stuff.
Mudcat is blessed with a very efficient search engine - remember a large enough part of the phrase and it takes a few minutes to find the full statement
All my postings today have ben done while I was digitising hundreds of soundfiles, strimming around the outside of an acre of garden and replacing a transformer in a ceiling light (and completing Code-word and reading two chapters of Peggy Seeger's biography).
Who says men aren't good at multi-tasking (Pat does!!)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 18 - 10:13 AM

Jim - you are a braver man than I,
researching back into slimy weasel's inordinately over piled post garbage heap...

He knows what evidence is there to be found
but counts on mere mortals being put off the herculean task of being tied up for days rummaging through it...

Like how some high profile politicians and criminals stretch out their trials for years
knowing the police will waste millions of man hours searching for key evidence...