BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?

Subject: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 May 18 - 05:14 PM

For general elections I normally stay up for at least a few hours to watch results coming in. I don't usually bother for local elections but maybe his time I will watch the first few ...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 18 - 05:29 PM

The Guardian indicates first results should come around 1am, and about 2am before the interesting ones which might indicate any dramatic trends.

The fun with these things is watching politicians trying to present disasters as somehow really being triumphs. And seeing the blood drain from self-satisfied faces.

But with local elections it's never the same, because their political lives aren't a stake. It's like shadow boxing as against a real fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 May 18 - 09:26 PM

Well it doesn't look like a disaster but it isn't a stunning victory either. I've been half-watching it and I'm going to bed now. Who was that dreadful Tory woman who was determined to handbag John McDonnell at every turn?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 18 - 09:37 PM

You note how they always seem to dress in red these days? You'd think they were in America where the party colours are reversed.

Anyway Harlow had a fair result - UKIP lost all its four seats, and three went to Labour and one to the Tories.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:57 AM

I didn't stay up very long in the end - 12:30 or so. That's one of the problems of still having a 6:30 start for work this morning.

Looks like very little has actually changed. The collapse of UKIP had made it very difficult to see how the main parties themselves would have faired without that.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 02:52 AM

The collapse of UKIP is the best news we have had for a long time. The start of people coming to their senses maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:37 AM

More a case of the fact that UKIP isn't required now that Brexit is going ahead.
If the government renege on Brexit I can imagine UKIP coming back even stronger than before, but in a general election rather than the locals. "If you cut me down . . ." (Quote of the day!)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:43 AM

UKIP collapsing doesn't actually change anything when both Corbyn and May are willing to bash the fuck out of any of their party members who oppose UKIP policies. The English didn't have an alternative to vote for.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:46 AM

UKIP was never required. They pandered to the worst in people by demonising immigrants. They played the same card that the Nazis played in the 1930s and I was saddened to see people falling for it. Particularly people on here who I expected to have more sense. Good riddance to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 May 18 - 04:21 AM

Many people on here do have more sense than to accept the comments of UKIP at face value.
That does not mean that they do not also have strong feelings, well thought out, about our need to leave the EU.
It is only through the rise of UKIP that we got a vote on the matter.
Unfortunately those who lost that vote continue to base their arguments on the fact that it was only racists, or the easily led, that voted to leave the EU. That view is an insult to the larger part of the electorate which voted at the referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 04:31 AM

Yes, the truth often hurts.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Iains
Date: 04 May 18 - 04:38 AM

"UKIP was never required. They pandered to the worst in people by demonising immigrants."


complete and utter garbage! These remoaners just cannot accept the fact they lost. Identical to democrats and the mighty victory of Trump!
They even make a pathetic attempt to revert to spreading false news to try to strengthen their position.

Happy days will be here again when brexit occurs.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 May 18 - 04:43 AM

As I say, the collapse of UKIP makes it hard to work out what is going on. At the moment this is part of the position for Hampshire:

LAB +37
LD +40
UKIP -92
CONS -2

It would be very odd if a whole bunch of xenophobic UKIPpers had decided to switch to pro-remain LD. So such a superficial analysis is not going to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 04:51 AM

Nothing to do with brexit, Iains. In my opinion UKIP were a blight on this country's political stage with no policy apart from to get rid of anyone who is not white and British from the UK. Are you prepared to defend UKIP's policies in any other way than just shouting 'complete and utter garbage' at anyone who criticises them?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Iains
Date: 04 May 18 - 04:53 AM

"Nuneaton MP and Conservative vice-chair Marcus Jones says: "The Conservatives should have lost hundreds of seats."

"Instead Conservatives are taking councils like Basildon and Barnet where Labour has been fatally damaged by anti-Semitism row."

Labour lost control of Nuneaton and Bedworth in Warwickshire, after the Conservatives took eight of their seats."

Corbyn. You have a problem!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Iains
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:22 AM

Dave Ukip ceased to be any kind of potent political entity as soon as the referendum result was declared. They served a useful purpose by ensuring the Tories did not renege on a referendum commitment, unlike the opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:26 AM

So, why is it 'complete and utter garbage' to say that they pandered to the worst in people by demonising immigrants then?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:54 AM

THere was a large spread of dissatisfaction with the EU, across the whole p[olitical spectrum - from Dennis Skinner and Jeremy Corbyn to Jacos Rees Mogg.

UKIP was a flag of convenience for many shades of political opinion. There are fascist nutters in every party. UKIP seemed to have more than its fair share, but I'm sure there were honourable and decent people in there too.

In a way the Nothern Ireland question, which is being seized upon by Remainers as an insoluble problem is the strongest reason why we must get out of the EU.. Everyone agrees no one wants a border. Unionists and Republicans. The discordant voice when you get down to it is Brussels, saying like Pauli in Goodfellas - we don't care if it starts a civil war, fuck you! we want our money!

its interference in our internal matters.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:58 AM

There are fascist nutters in every party.

That may well be true, Al, but only UKIP had one as its leader and their single policy of blaming everything on immigration led to them having 'more than its fair share'.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 May 18 - 06:33 AM

and their single policy of blaming everything on immigration led to them having 'more than its fair share'.
I think their policy was blaming things on the EU. That includes some immigration matters, and some matters of inflexibility over trade.
Even if immigration was the core matter, the complaints were not against 'immigration', but against 'uncontrolled immigration'. That is a distinction which many remainers refuse to acknowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 06:44 AM

Many saw their stance as anti-immigration full stop and perception is everything in politics. They used the old tried and trusted blame the foreigner tactic and sadly it worked.

As I suggested on another thread, that is my opinion and I am as entitled to it as you are to yours. I believe you are wrong. You believe I am. Ne'er the twain shall meet so I shall let it lie there.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 06:44 AM

"Fascist nutter" is just name calling.
What did he actually do to merit that?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Iains
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:01 AM

I think above we have a typical example of the behaviour that is being discussed elsewhere. A highly offensive label being placed on a party purely on the basis of a minority opinion. This sort of posting just invites retaliation. It is so obviously inflammatory that it justifies the accusation of trolling!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:07 AM

I couldn't see much to choose between UKIP and the Tories. Both used the same language about immigrants, but the Tories had the opportunity to enact racist policies, and seized it.

In both cases, as in all parties, there are a fair number of decent enough people who vote for them, or even join them.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:38 AM

No one, as far as I cam see, has called the entire party anything even remotely offensive. The point was made by Big Al and just now by Kevin that there are decent people within its ranks. Albeit, in my opinion, sadly misled.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:27 AM

Now Croydon council has a larger majority, little to stop them turning over recreation grounds to blocks of flats for undesirables an gypsy sites.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:30 AM

"What did he actually do to merit that? "
If we can't call fascist nutters "fascist nutter" what can we call fascist nutters?
Protecting ultra-right politics again I see Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:33 AM

Re. racism, it seems that Labour's anti-Semitism was the cause of its drubbing in Barnet.

"Adam Langleben, one of the Labour councillors who lost their seat in Barnet, said allegations of anti-Semitism was the key reason for the party's losses in London.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I spent countless hours knocking on countless doors speaking to Jewish voters who are Labour voters or were Labour voters - people who genuinely believe in the same values as the Labour Party, who agreed with our local manifesto for Barnet.
"But they could not vote for a Labour Party that they see as hostile or dangerous to the Jewish community.
"And the Labour Party is seen by far too many people in the Jewish community as being racist right now." "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44001786

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:36 AM

Jim, you can call him anything you like, but is it justified?
Again, what has he actually done to merit that description?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:39 AM

well at least Farage had the bollocks to say he disagreed with the EU. Corbyn disagreed with it - at least he always said he did until becoming a boss.

Its the same with this anti semitism stuff. The point is that within living memory he has cosied up to people who declared their opposition to the existence of Israel.

You can say - well at least he was open in his dealings - unlike Thatcher who maintained she wasn't having chats with the IRA, but was.

But people need to know what his deepest convictions are. And that's the reason his party, (my party incidently also) took a mauling in these elections.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:53 AM

Not as easy as that Al
Once the vote is taken, any responsible leader makes the best of it
Farage got Britain into this mess on a racist ticket - that's what makes him a fascist nutter (you've not had a change of hrat already, have you!!)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 09:54 AM

Nice to see Farage's fascist nuttiness was reflected in the vote for what remains of his party, which appears to have gone the way if its counterparts, the NF and the BNP
Never mind - as with number 11 buses - there'll be another one along in a minute
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 09:56 AM

How to spot a swivel-eyed loon

For a laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 10:44 AM

The joke is that was written a year before the swivel eyed loons won the EU election.
Until then every party refused to promise a referendum, but as a result of SEL's success they all suddenly did!

How does that make Farage a racist nutter though Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 10:47 AM

DID SOMEONE ASK A QUESTION?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:00 AM

Yes Jim. That poster was a news photo of large numbers of young men crossing an EU border to illustrate the EU migrant crisis.
That was a key issue in their manifesto.

How was it racist or fascist?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:01 AM

Sorry Keith
Just wanted to remind myself how much of a "not supporter" of Ukip you were
Many thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:01 AM

Before you make accusations, I do not support or defend UKIP, but if you are going to criticise them make it rational, not just name calling.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:37 AM

[Corbyn]
Its the same with this anti semitism stuff. The point is that within living memory he has cosied up to people who declared their opposition to the existence of Israel.

I oppose the existence of Israel and I haven't noticed that UKIP catamite cosying up to me.

I also oppose the existence of the UK. So do a great majority of all the people elected ti any level of public office in Scotland. Which doesn't make us anti-English, it just makes us anti- the thieving, lying, selfish, bigoted, vicious cunts the English keep electing and foisting on us as gauleiters.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:45 AM

Scotland could have left.
They were asked and said no thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 12:32 PM

" but if you are going to criticise them make it rational, not just name calling. "
You want me to be fair to a fascist nutter
Your request has been noted and will be dealt with fully when the occasion arises
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:20 PM

You want me to be fair to a fascist nutter

By no means Jim.
I just want to be told how you know he is one so I can join in the abuse.
What did he do, and why do respectable organisations like the BBC give him airtime?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:50 PM

I'm pretty sure the 1930s German equivalent of the BBC gave a certain chap with a funny moustache airtime. I suppose he must have been a good bloke then...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:54 PM

I think it's a mistake to use "fascist" loosely. Having far right beliefs, and hostility to immigration doesn’t really equate to fascist ideology, it's essentially mainstream Toryism.

And Farage is far too crafty and manipulative a politician for "nutter" to really fit. If he'd been a nutter he'd have been a lot less dangerous than he has been. It very much fitted into his game plan to be seen as a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:06 PM

I'd hate to thing of the effort Keith puts into fascist nutters he does support if this is the amount of work he's prepared to put into fascist nutters he doesn't
The mind boggles
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 May 18 - 06:25 PM

i can't really understand why Scotland didn't leave the UK. i think a lot of socialists would have moved there.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 18 - 06:59 PM

Ironically I suspect a deciding factor for many may have been that they thought sticking with England was a way of escaping the risk an independent Scotland might not be able to join the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:35 PM

I think you might be right Mac, but there is every reason to believe that, should Scotland vote again the result would be very different
Brexit has had a radical effect on Six-County politics and brought a United Ireland within a hair's breadth
"It's an ill wind...." as they say
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:55 PM

That could well be true, Jim. I hope you are, in both cases.

I suppose that makes me a Little Englander. Actually that'd be getting back to the original use of that term, round the end of the 19th century, when Little Englanders was the term used by and about people opposed to the extension of the British Empire, especially in the context of the Boer War. I'd like to see it reclaimed for people who favour the winding up of the United Kingdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:42 AM

I was a counting agent for the first time on Thursday night, so I was on my feet for most of the time 3:30 Thursday AM to about 4:30 Friday AM so that was a long night, and still not had a drink to celebrate an increase of seats from 53 to 57 out of 69 seats, including 3 from Tory strongholds for the first time. So that was a long day and night for me!