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BS: The short way to kill threads...
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 May 18 - 12:58 PM "Pity I came back at all." Sorry you think so Jim Carroll
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Raggytash Date: 08 May 18 - 12:19 PM Stu, As you are obviously well aware some posters do tend to hanker on about their own particular field. Sometimes it can be seen as irrational or a pain in the backside (delete as applicable) What could help is a more rational post from a more rational poster. Perhaps you could assist in this regard? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Stu Date: 08 May 18 - 11:34 AM "Pity you didn't get back earlier" Pity I came back at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 08 May 18 - 11:24 AM Jim you'd be much more benefit collating all the best of this in a thread of your own.. ideally upstairs in music linking songs, culture, and mainstream perceptions... This material is wasted just scattered randomly in these BS threads about arguing in threads... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 May 18 - 11:20 AM "Amazing, I nip back down here to see if it's worth returning" I did point out that I only opened this topic when the thread looked as if it had run out of steal and then, I only did to provide an example of why threads dissapear Pity you didn't get back earlier Jim Caarroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 May 18 - 11:17 AM "Regarding both the above quotes. Jim himself has already accepted his meaning was unclear." I thought my statement was self explanatory - perhaps I should have written "sorry you didn't understand it" but let's not belabor the point The point about Travellers and rubbish is not as straightforward as is that of the settled community Because the vast majority of them are denied access to permanent stopping places, they are forced to settle illegally on land unsuitable for habitation, without any of the facilities we take fro granted - light, running water-sanitation... Traveller evictions had to be given two weeks notice - now, the change of law means they can be evicted at any time. Councils refuse to collect Travellers rubbish and firms which hire out rubbish receptacles generally refuse to supply them to Travellers, so the stoppers dump the rubbish wherever they can - when they are evicted, they have neither the will nor the means to remove their accumulated everyday debris. Add to this the practice of locals who use the presence of Travellers to get rid of their own rubbish In the eighties, the Wandsworth Council in conjunction with the police and with the co-operation of the Local Gypsy Council, mounted surveillance equipment around London's oldest Gypsy site in Garrett Lane - they found that locals came at night and dumped furniture (around 6 sofas wardrobes, beds....), televisions, fridges, bikes, even cars...... Although this was reported to the Local paper, it never appeared - as far as I know, no action was ever taken against the dumpers who had been identified and in the public eye, the Travellers were the culprits. THe solution of providing stopping places for Travellers was arrived at in the late 1960s - thanks largely to protests by students, many of whom had been inspired by the Radio Ballad, The Travelling People' Permanent sites with hard-standing, toilets, electricity, kitchens (sometimes) and wardens were set up by the Councils, rent was paid and Travellers could come and go as they pleased - some allowed temporary stopping on vacant sites on the understanding that the temps moved off when the regulars returned Some of the most well-kept, best organised and cleanest sites we ever visited were these permanent ones - ones outside Swindon and Bristol spring to mind John Major's Government put a stop to all this when his Government repealed the 1968 alllowing the councils to closed down sites formerly demanded by law, leaving the Travellers to fend for themselves. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Stu Date: 08 May 18 - 11:03 AM Amazing, I nip back down here to see if it's worth returning and find this thread, which demonstrates perfectly why below the line has become a mire of nastiness, petty feuds and constant bickering rather than debate. It's spoiled. It's a real fucking shame. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 08 May 18 - 10:59 AM Crikey.. K***'s in high spirits, he's being a right supercilious little bounder today... Must be the benefits of bright sunny bank holiday weather and renewed hope that the world heading closer to The Rapture..??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Backwoodsman Date: 08 May 18 - 10:49 AM "Regarding both the above quotes. Jim himself has already accepted his meaning was unclear. Re-writing the sentence slightly: "Some settled people are thieves and spreaders of rubbish, as are travellers." Would you have accepted that I was not trying to tar all travellers with the same brush?" Had I read that sentence, I would have perceived an implied 'some' immediately preceding 'travellers'. So yes, I would have accepted that you were not trying to tar all Travellers with the same brush. Taking individual sentences absolutely literally is a fool's errand. Intelligent reading, taking a poorly-worded sentence within the context of a larger piece, can often clarify the true meaning of such a sentence. It was perfectly clear that, within the context of his whole piece, Jim was trying to demonstrate equivalence within the two groups under discussion, and not attempting to prove any superiority of either with regard to theft, dumping, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 May 18 - 10:34 AM Steve, It isn't just personal insults, etc., that put people off. I think it is Steve. It is certainly not people like me who just put moderate, mainstream views. PFR, It really baffles me what I just read then, and reread at least 5 times, and can still make no coherent sense of... I wonder why...????? Oh dear. Poor little you. Ask Steve to explain. He had no problem at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Nigel Parsons Date: 08 May 18 - 10:26 AM From: Dave the Gnome - PM Date: 08 May 18 - 07:47 AM Pedantic pratt. Uncalled for, and adding nothing to the discussion. From: Backwoodsman - PM Date: 08 May 18 - 07:49 AM True, but I read what I believe he meant. It's called 'thinking about what you read, and not just blindly taking it literally'. To suggest that all settled people are thieves and spreaders of rubbish is clearly ludicrous Regarding both the above quotes. Jim himself has already accepted his meaning was unclear. Re-writing the sentence slightly: "Some settled people are thieves and spreaders of rubbish, as are travellers." Would you have accepted that I was not trying to tar all travellers with the same brush? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 08 May 18 - 09:58 AM It really baffles me what I just read then, and reread at least 5 times, and can still make no coherent sense of... I wonder why...????? Oh I know... he's a complete snivelling K***...!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Steve Shaw Date: 08 May 18 - 09:27 AM Look in the mirror, Keith. It isn't just personal insults, etc., that put people off. Now back to taking no notice of you.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 May 18 - 09:01 AM It baffles me why folks take it all so personally and over seriously...??? You are easily baffled PFR. Threads are closed and fewer people post than ever, so whatever you think, most people do not like it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 May 18 - 08:03 AM "You then go on to say that 'settled people' are also guilty of the same." Of course I meant "some" Nigel - my apologies for the confusion I will say that the widespread pollution that is infecting not just Britain but the entire planet, heavily outweighs that made by a minuscule number of Travellers - but that's beside the point. I'm making a point of ignoring Iain's increasingly abusive postings - he seems to be returning to his old habits - pity! I didn't want this topic to dominate this thread, but I do want to feel comfortable about about posting my experiences of Travellers without being overwhelmed by tsunamis of racist abuse Hopefully, after the dust has settled on this one, that will never again be the case Perhaps a few threads on The Doran Family, The Dunnes, John Reilly, Jeannie Robertson, The Stewarts, et al, might redress the balance - though I doubt it will do much to remove deeply-embedded prejudices! Let's see Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 08 May 18 - 07:50 AM It baffles me why folks take it all so personally and over seriously...??? It's not like escalating out of control face to face in a pub with a riled up pisshead.. We can read, stand back, think... wait... type.. wait.. rethink more rationally... wait.. edeit / rewrite.. wait.. then post... It don't have to be so emotionally fired up and ferociously immediate...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Backwoodsman Date: 08 May 18 - 07:49 AM True, but I read what I believe he meant. It's called 'thinking about what you read, and not just blindly taking it literally'. To suggest that all settled people are thieves and spreaders of rubbish is clearly ludicrous, I can't imagine any contributor to this forum seriously putting it forward as a fact. And it never occurred to me that McG might be referring to me - I've said nothing that would get the thread closed, so why should he? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 08 May 18 - 07:47 AM Pedantic pratt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Nigel Parsons Date: 08 May 18 - 07:37 AM We've just seen the kind of thing I was talking about in action. "You say this, so obviously you mean that and how dare you say that. Was that aimed at me, or at Backwoodsman? I haven't put an alternative to Jim's words. I have accepted them as written Backwoodsman has read into them something which isn't actually there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 May 18 - 07:25 AM "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. George Bernard Shaw? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 May 18 - 07:16 AM We've just seen the kind of thing I was talking about in action. "You say this, so obviously you mean that and how dare you say that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Backwoodsman Date: 08 May 18 - 07:11 AM A bit nit-picking though, Nigel. When I read that part of Jim's post, I took the **some** as implied re Settled people. I'm pretty sure that any reasonable person who doesn't have an axe to grind would see it as implied too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Nigel Parsons Date: 08 May 18 - 06:56 AM Jim. First look at your own posts: Racism has no place on this or any forum - stereotyping Travellers as "thieves" aand spreaders of rubbish as Iains did is racism, pure and simple Some travellers are guilty of both, as are settled people, You seem to accept that only 'some' travellers are guilty of theft and spreading rubbish. You then go on to say that 'settled people' are also guilty of the same. No "some" in that bit. If you are stating that all settled folk are guilty of theft and spreading rubbish then that is as bad a case of racism as any that you are complaining about. (and that is how your comment could be read) See how easy it is to find a post which appears to be racist? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 08 May 18 - 06:53 AM Over-reacting nasty personal feuds & vendettas infesting multiple threads - that's never healthy or welcome here... Let's be calm collected gentlemen, and just mercilessly take the piss out of each other's obsessions and pomposity... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: MikeL2 Date: 08 May 18 - 06:49 AM Hi Joe " Well, usually by the time the "usual suspects" start insulting each other, the rest of us have already got bored and left the thread. And by the time a thread gets closed, all semblance of intelligence has been gone from the thread for days." Couldn't agree more. The "usual Suspects " don't appear to realise that they are the ones that spoil a thread. Some people here should look in the mirror. Cheers Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Iains Date: 08 May 18 - 06:33 AM I apologise for any being forced to endure this but I have no option but to defend myself against these totally unwarranted accusations by Jim. I ask repeatedly for him to prove his allegations but all I get is further strings of abuse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Iains Date: 08 May 18 - 06:30 AM Jim you are totally full of shit.What on earth gives you the right to post:" stereotyping Travellers as "thieves" aand spreaders of rubbish as Iains did is racism, pure and simple" Show me the evidence that justifies you making such a slur on my character, or apologise. YOU ARE A NASTY, VINDICTIVE LIAR. As I say repeatedly you are a disgrace to this forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 May 18 - 06:01 AM "We may think that a remark made by a poster implies racist attitudes that they have not actually been expressed" Racism has no place on this or any forum - stereotyping Travellers as "thieves" aand spreaders of rubbish as Iains did is racism, pure and simple Some travellers are guilty of both, as are settled people, but to give the behaviour of some as a reason for an exectution goes beond the limits of decenct If that was not his intention, then he used my point that the victim was a Traveller to embark on an attack on the Travelling community as a whole Either way, it was a racist attack In Britain, Travellers are now entitled to protection under race discrimination laws - I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that this has to be extended to hatemail on the internet Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Iains Date: 08 May 18 - 05:40 AM Attaching unjustified labels requires the strongest rebuttal and deserves censure. There are one or two make a skewed interpretation of what was stated and then give their imagination free rein to build on their totally erroneous interpretation with additional bullying and bluster. They then bluster even more when confronted with it, but never admit they were wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 May 18 - 05:12 AM I think there is a distinction between what we say and how we say it. Much of the time the kind of problems that kill threads is more about the latter. There are attitudes and opinions that deserve and indeed invite strong and forceful opposition, especially expressions of racism etc. They get that, and quite right - but there are different ways of doing it, and we need to be careful in how we do it. And we also need to be cautious in interpreting what someone has said as going further than what they have actually said. We may think that a remark made by a poster implies racist attitudes that they have not actually expressed, but we should be very careful about building on that. Even if we are right, it's falling into a trap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 May 18 - 04:45 AM Thanks Dave As my mate has just said, a wonderful idea I've just taken your advice Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Iains Date: 08 May 18 - 04:32 AM A stunning idea. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 08 May 18 - 04:23 AM These threads are not actively moderated, Jim. If you want something to happen you need to present your case to one of the moderation team. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 May 18 - 04:18 AM "You have an anger management problem jimmie. Seek Help!" it seems apt that someone should adopt behaviour likely to close this thread on a thresd discussing the closing of threads Perhaps a moderator might take steps to prevent that from happening Not to do so appears to be allowing obvious trolling Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 08 May 18 - 04:17 AM Discussion of particular political parties is sensitive territory. No. It is OK to attack and malign any party except one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Iains Date: 08 May 18 - 03:52 AM You have an anger management problem jimmie. Seek Help! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 May 18 - 03:40 AM I'm glad this thread hasn't disappeared completely I've just been part of a somewhat vicious exchange which I believe came very close to closing a thread (I sincerely hope it hasn't) In a discussion on violent crime, I raised the question of a Traveller who was 'executed' by an Irish farmer some years ago This led to a spectacular attack on the Travelling community in general, which then almost degenerated into a slanging match (largely due to a posters intolerance of Travellers and my objection to the views being expressed on this forum). Nuff said about that particular dust-up. What does concern me is that there seem to be a number of no-go areas being created on this forum by people who are prepare to use it as sounding boards for their intolerance Islam seems to be a no-go area - (I mentioned the lack of Muslims on forum that would very much benefit from their presence, especially on the subject of music) Antisemitism has become an issue almost guaranteed to close threads Discussion of particular political parties is sensitive territory. Even certain aspects of folk song have become taboo Now we have the question of Travellers I came to this forum through my interest in folk song, and a major part of that interest has been the role part played by Travellers like Jeannie Robertson, The Stewarts of Blair, John Reilly Johnny Doran.... and the many, many Traveller singers, musicians and storytellers who have played an invaluable part in preserving our folk cultures down the centuries. If racial and cultural intolerance of is going to hang over the discussion of these people, then I don't think it bodes too well for some threads on both sides of the line BS and Music/Folklore I did think of opening a new thread on this (I'm still more than a little angry at the display of racial/cultural intolerance displayed on the other) I thought that, as this was about thread closure and it had appeared to have run out of puff, this was as good a place as any to vent my anger. Said my piece - have a good day, y'all Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 06 May 18 - 01:34 PM Or even stops you. Damn this productive ticks... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 06 May 18 - 01:33 PM Stood you rolling out of bed at night. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Iains Date: 06 May 18 - 01:26 PM I thought it was the male pill! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Backwoodsman Date: 06 May 18 - 01:16 PM Haaaaaaaaaahahahahaaaah! Now I've spilled my tea! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Raggytash Date: 06 May 18 - 01:15 PM A CURE for ominpotence is surely a cold shower? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Senoufou Date: 06 May 18 - 12:48 PM Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!! I nearly spilled my tea just now!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Backwoodsman Date: 06 May 18 - 12:42 PM I thought the cure for omnipotence was Viagra? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 06 May 18 - 12:20 PM There might not be a cure for omnipotence, but it can be managed and treated; and nothing to be ashamed of... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Jeri Date: 06 May 18 - 11:40 AM You assume an omnipotent god would want to interfere in things. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Iains Date: 06 May 18 - 11:32 AM Differing beliefs in what appears to be the same God has killed more people than any other cause. If said deity has unlimited power it seems strange that divisions in the way of belief and worship of the God leads to so many deaths. A rational person would believe omnipotence would prevent such schisms arising in the first place, but this is obviously not the case. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Nigel Parsons Date: 06 May 18 - 09:43 AM Why is the drawback blamed on omnipotence? In the example given it is the ignorance of one side, or the other (or both)that leads to the belief "God is on our side". |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Iains Date: 06 May 18 - 09:12 AM But in many wars God is claimed to be on both sides. Omnipotence obviously has it's drawbacks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads... From: Backwoodsman Date: 06 May 18 - 07:55 AM There IS a God! |