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BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State

Vashta Nerada 17 May 18 - 04:04 PM
Backwoodsman 17 May 18 - 03:45 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 03:22 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 03:00 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 02:56 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 02:39 PM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 02:36 PM
Bonzo3legs 17 May 18 - 02:04 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 02:01 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 01:53 PM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 01:52 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 01:48 PM
Bonzo3legs 17 May 18 - 01:47 PM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 01:42 PM
Joe Offer 17 May 18 - 01:34 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 01:12 PM
Keith A of Hertford 17 May 18 - 01:09 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 12:56 PM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 12:50 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 12:16 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 12:05 PM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 11:54 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 11:49 AM
bobad 17 May 18 - 11:46 AM
Backwoodsman 17 May 18 - 11:45 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 11:23 AM
bobad 17 May 18 - 11:21 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 11:13 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 11:05 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 May 18 - 11:02 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 10:59 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 10:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 May 18 - 10:42 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 10:34 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 May 18 - 10:21 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 10:18 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 May 18 - 10:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 May 18 - 10:15 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 May 18 - 10:14 AM
Acme 17 May 18 - 10:12 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 10:11 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 10:07 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 09:58 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 09:55 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 09:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 May 18 - 09:54 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 09:53 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 09:53 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 18 - 09:51 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 18 - 09:51 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 17 May 18 - 04:04 PM

Why on earth would anyone bother to answer your questions, BeardedBruce, when you pay no attention to the answers? Your dogmatic approach doesn't help threads, it kills them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 May 18 - 03:45 PM

Instead of all this hate, try thinking...

Why Jews In Solidarity With Palestinians Will Win The Day


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 03:22 PM

"According to The New York Times, “loudspeakers on minarets urged Palestinians to rush the fence bordering Israel, where they were met by army snipers.” The Washington Post reports that “organizers urged demonstrators to burst through the fence, telling them Israeli soldiers were fleeing their positions, even as they were reinforcing them.”

Which suggests that Hamas, the terrorist group that rules Gaza, incited protesters to dash toward Israeli military positions, likely knowing that many would be killed. Hamas leaders had to know that the carnage would ignite an international backlash against Israel and the U.S.

If Palestinian leaders want to know who is responsible for the deaths Monday, they should glance in the mirror.

That said, let’s also note that many of the demonstrators were peaceful. They came to protest what they call the nakba, or catastrophe: the creation of the state of Israel 70 years ago. They came to reassert their “right of return” to what is now Israel. They came to express their despair — as generations of Palestinians have. And they came to denounce the U.S. embassy switch.

But let’s be clear: Moving the American embassy to Jerusalem doesn’t preclude anything in an eventual Israeli-Palestinian peace deal. The fate of Jerusalem has always been part of negotiations between the sides, if and when they start speaking again.

A Palestinian state is not foreordained, however. Early in his term, President Trump shook up the Middle East status quo by declaring that he would not insist on the creation of a Palestinian state as part of a peace accord.

Leaders of the Palestinians have a choice: They can keep sending their young people to their deaths.

Or they can turn from violent confrontation to constructive negotiation. They can resume their path toward a Palestinian state.

Even as we write that sentence — expressing the hope for a two-state solution that we’ve repeated over and over — it seems more far-fetched than ever. The reality on the ground is that nothing will change until Palestinian leaders stop inciting violence and start telling their people the truth: Palestinians can have a state. But not until they accept that the Israel they loathe is in the neighborhood to stay."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-israel-trump-jerusalem-palestinians-20180514-story.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 03:00 PM

JC,

"my concern is that human beings should be able live in peace unmolested"


"called for peace from both sides,"

For the Israelis, this would mean letting the demonstrators overrun the border and kill all the Jews ( the stated purpose).(- RESULT: DEAD JEWS AND PALESTINIANS ;)


For the Palestinians, this would entail keeping back from the border and NOT attacking the Israeli troops, or throwing rocks, grenades, burning tires, et al. (- RESULT - NOBODY HURT ;My preference)

"But the fact is that if Hamas dropped its claim on Israel proper, and stopped using every opening provided to them to instigate violence, not a single person would ever have to die again in this war."


So WHICH side has control of "peace"?

ANSWER THE QUESTION.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 02:56 PM

No matter how often Hamas tells us that rioters on the Israel-Gaza border are armed, most of the media keeps referring to them as “protesters” and “demonstrators.” No matter how often Hamas acknowledges that rioters are part of a broader “war,” the media simply won’t report it as such. And no matter how often those rioters tell reporters they want to “kill” and “burn” Jews inside Israel, left-wing journalists and pundits still frame Israel as the aggressor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 02:39 PM

JC,

YOU never addressed the reasons I disagreed with you.



Gaza is NOT being invaded- Israel is. This is the pre-1967 truce line that supposedly Hamas want to go back to in a two-state solution- AND IT IS TRYING TO CROSS INTO ISRAEL.

The aggressor is clear -HAMAS- and using human shields and the blood of innocents to sway public opinion away from the facts.




Since you said NOTHING about them, I guess you agree with me. Right? Isn't that how you have always posted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 02:36 PM

"Whose quote? NOT MINE."
If your quote came from the Jerusalem pot it was a verbatim repeat of the original Gatestone article
Which shows how low Israel has sunk
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 May 18 - 02:04 PM

I certainly don't support the murdering hamas terrorists, whom I believe carrot head Corbyn does gladly support.........hey ho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 02:01 PM

Whose quote? NOT MINE.


Please prefix your claims with an addressee.


And from now on, let us know if anything YOU post is from an Arab or Leftist source. Have to weed out the propaganda, rather than look at both sides...


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 01:53 PM

JC,

"And you have refused to respond
Whatever way you try to paint it you are sporting mass murder and ethnic cleansing"

Wrong again.

You stated an opinion- IN MY OPINION, YOU are the supporter of those seeking mass murder and who have ALREADY committed ethnic cleansing.

AS I have stated, and provided my reasoning- which you never answered.

So tell me I have refused to respond again and I will bring up all the time YOU have not, LIKE THE LEFT'S support of the Nazis in WW II Ireland and YOUR refusal to condemn it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 01:52 PM

Your quote was from The Gatestone Institute
The Gatestone Institute (formerly Stonegate Institute and Hudson New York) is a right-wing[2][3][4] anti-Muslim[5] think tank that publishes articles, particularly pertaining to Islam and the Middle East. The organization has attracted attention for publishing false articles and being a source of viral falsehoods.[5][6][7][8][9] Gatestone was founded in 2012 by Nina Rosenwald, who serves as its president.[10] Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John R. Bolton, now national security advisor, was its chairman from 2013 to March
Why do you people pretend to support the Jewish People yet draw youer quotes from the very people who sent six million of them to their deaths
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 01:48 PM

Joe,

I asked a simple question of those blaming Israel:

"called for peace from both sides,"

For the Israelis, this would mean letting the demonstrators overrun the border and kill all the Jews ( the stated purpose).(- RESULT: DEAD JEWS AND PALESTINIANS ;)
"No matter how often Hamas tells us that many rioters on Israel-Gaza border are armed, most of the media keeps referring to them as “protesters” and “demonstrators.” No matter how often Hamas acknowledges that these rioters are part of a broader “war,” the media simply won’t report it as such. And no matter how often Palestinian rioters tell reporters they want to “kill” and “burn” Jews inside Israel, left-wing journalists and pundits still frame Israel as the aggressor."

For the Palestinians, this would entail keeping back from the border and NOT attacking the Israeli troops, or throwing rocks, grenades, burning tires, et al. (- RESULT - NOBODY HURT ;My preference)
"But the fact is that if Hamas dropped its claim on Israel proper, and stopped using every opening provided to them to instigate violence, not a single person would ever have to die again in this war."


So WHICH side has control of "peace"?

Not one answer ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 May 18 - 01:47 PM

Funny, I was under the impression that most of the dead were Hamas terrorists!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 01:42 PM

"Again, JC, you have to repeat it THREE times, and that will only work with Sidhe."
And you have refused to respond
Whatever way you try to paint it you are sporting mass murder and ethnic cleansing
Every propoal put by Israel to teh Palestinians has demand a retention of the status quo and the stolen land - every single one
THey have gone as far as claiming Palestinians do not exist (Golda Meir started that one)
I have no interest in the politicians of either side - no politician is to be trusted - my concern is that human beings should be able live in peace unmolested - Israel has refused to let that happen from day one - they remain the aggressors and have now elevated that butchery from the shadows right into the the public gaze
THey are relying on the scum of the political world for not being tried
Is that the Israel the sicx million you are hiding behind would have wanted
Not in my experience it wasn't
At least we have established that this has nothing to do with the Jewish People - and those who claim it is are antisemites who have no shame

Who let that friggin' parrot back in!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 May 18 - 01:34 PM

It seems to me that Israel and the State of Palestine are getting along reasonably well, despite constant friction on many issues. Gaza is another matter. It seems like peace between Israel and Gaza is impossible without the total destruction of one side or another - but there ought to be a better way.

Both sides have good reason to hate the other. In past years, missiles from Gaza have struck dangerously close to Tel Aviv, so Israel has good reason not to trust Gaza. But Gaza has been besieged by Israel for decades, so Gaza has good reason for animosity. Mudcat debaters express animosity on both sides, but no peaceful or practical solutions. What ca be done other than continuing to fight?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 01:12 PM

" "We do not leave any part of the Palestinians' land, under any circumstances, conditions or pressure, as long as the occupation remains. Hamas refuses any alternative which is not the whole liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea." "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 18 - 01:09 PM

This is Keith's stupid argument - Israel must be innocent because decent counties are staying silent

Yes. Decent democratic countries would not stay silent about state terrorism if it was true, and nor would the Labour Party in Britain.

It shows how exteme and unrepresentative are the views being expressed here by the dominant group of posters on Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 12:56 PM

Again, JC, you have to repeat it THREE times, and that will only work with Sidhe.


With posters here, you need to present FACTS that pertain to the point you wish to make.

"In the end, this has to end by the two warring groups accepting each other - anything else would be another crime against humanity"

So, YOU have accused HAMAS of still ANOTHER crime against humanity? THEY are the ones who have declared they will NEVER make peace. Right in their charter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 12:50 PM

"No, JC. I disagree with you."
I have no doubt you do
No nation has the right to exclude former residents who flee from war zones
THIS IN ITSELF IS A WARCRIME
The aggressor is the state that created the largest number of refugees from one country on the planet
Hamas is doing no more than was done by the Israeli freedom fighters
In the end, this has to end by the two warring groups accepting each other - anything else would be another crime against humanity
The isralis arw persistent war criminals who have only avoided being tride as such by United States vetoes
They even demanded that the International Criminal Court be dismantled before they would face trial
THere has yet to be a single Israeli casualty in this slaughter - it is simple butchery, however you choose to describe it
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 12:16 PM

The Israeli military says it has carried out airstrikes on militant sites in Gaza overnight in response to machine gun fire that hit a building in the Israeli city of Sderot.

The army said Thursday that planes bombarded a military compound and a weapons production facility in the northern Gaza Strip.

The Palestinian health ministry says a man was moderately wounded by shrapnel, but didn't say whether he was inside a militant site or nearby.

The airstrikes Thursday came hours after Israeli forces came under fire from the Palestinian territory. The military said no troops were wounded in Wednesday's exchange.

Israeli fire killed nearly 60 Palestinians on Monday during a protest along the Gaza border. A senior Hamas official said 50 of those killed were members of the militant group.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 12:05 PM

No, JC. I disagree with you.


Gaza is NOT being invaded- Israel is. This is the pre-1967 truce line that supposedly Hamas want to go back to in a two-state solution- AND IT IS TRYING TO CROSS INTO ISRAEL.

The aggressor is clear -HAMAS- and using human shields and the blood of innocents to sway public opinion away from the facts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:54 AM

"These are the rules of engagement being followed by the IDF"
Do those rules say anything about unmarred demonstrators or do the just apply to combat situations ?
From the beginning the snipers were taking out unarmed protesters - the first fatality was a farmer who had nothing to do with all this

Israel came into being using terrorism - all groups facing unassailable odds do so
Not so long ago Israel celebrated THIS ACT OF TERROR
Palestinian "terrorism" is no different - it is in order protect their himeland - it is Israel who is the aggressor, as is shown my this act of mass murder
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:49 AM

Geneva (AFP) - The UN agency for Palestinian refugees is fuelling "unrealistic" hopes of return after 70 years of exodus and is therefore helping keep the Mideast conflict alive, Switzerland's foreign minister said Thursday.

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA)was established after the war surrounding Israel's creation in 1948, when around 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled.

But Swiss Foreign Minister Ignazio Cassis pointed out that the number of Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, the West Bank and Gaza has swelled to more than five million.

"It is unrealistic that this dream (of return) will be fulfilled for all," he said in an interview given to several German-language papers owned by the Swiss NZZ group.

"But UNRWA maintains this hope. For me, the question is whether UNRWA is part of the solution or part of the problem," he said, concluding that "it is both".

The UN agency, he said, "worked as a solution for a long time, but today it has become part of the problem."

- Fuelling the conflict? -

"It provides ammunition to continue the conflict. For as long as Palestinians live in refugee camps, they will want to return to their homeland," he said.

"By supporting UNRWA, we are keeping the conflict alive."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: bobad
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:46 AM

David Horovitz tell it like is:

Palestinians are being mobilized for a 'right' they do not have and a 'return' that will not happen. Why does the international community insist on helping Hamas delude them?

World must tell Gaza’s Hamas-abused masses the truth: There will be no ‘return’


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:45 AM

Interesting...


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:23 AM

Iran is the only country providing military support to Hamas in its war to destroy Israel, a top Hamas official stated.

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) reported this week that the Hamas terror group’s deputy political bureau chief, Saleh al-Arouri, told the Lebanese Al-Quds television network that Iran is the only country providing military support to Hamas to fight the “Israeli entity.”

“On the one hand, there are countries that support Israel, and conspire with it day in and day out, and sacrifice Jerusalem and the holy places, and on the other hand, we have [Iran] which provides aid against the Israeli entity,” said Arouri.

“Who supported the resistance in Lebanon until it drove out the Israeli entity? It was Iran. Who supports the resistance in Gaza and Palestine? Iran,” he added.

“Our relations with Iran are based on the fact that Iran is the most hostile country in the world toward the Zionist entity. Iran is the only country that says that this entity is cancerous. This is Iran’s official position….The aid Iran provides to the resistance is not merely symbolic. This is real aid, which is essential for the resistance to continue and be effective.”

The comments come amid nationwide protests in Iran against the country’s Islamist regime for financial corruption, and for supporting terrorist entities including Hezbollah and Hamas abroad while the economic situation for residents of Iran steadily deteriorated.

Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) Quds Force Commander Gen. Qassem Soleimani pledged all of Iran’s “capabilities and potential” to Hamas in a phone call with the group’s leader last month.

Hamas leader Yahye Sinwar said that the general assured him, “All our of capabilities and potential are at your disposal in the battle for the defense of Jerusalem.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: bobad
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:21 AM

it is OK to use live rounds on and randomly kill any Palestinians is it?

Logical fallacy of argument from false premise.

These are the rules of engagement being followed by the IDF:

First shoot to warn
Then shoot to wound
As a last resort then shoot to kill


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:13 AM

"Now Palestinians must be guilty because nobodt is offering shelter"

NOT what I said- the Palestinians are VICTIMS here- but IMO it is wrong to blame Israel for the failings of the Arab League.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:05 AM

Interesting reading here
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/irans-jews-on-life-inside-israels-enemy-state-we-feel-secure-and-happy-a6934931.html
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 May 18 - 11:02 AM

hindsight and all that...

But common sense leads to a thought that the small size area of land hastily determined back then to be called "Israel"
could never be big enough for future needs and population growth,
or realistically peacefully expanded upon...

The whole post war Israel project seems incompetently planned & executed,
and doomed to perennial serious problems, if not complete failure...

Even our local council town planners have a bit more clue than that..


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:59 AM

"NO-ONE has called on ANY COUNTRY BUT Israel to take in these Palestinian refugees- WHY IS THAT? "
Not true actually, but beside the point
This is Keith's stupid argument - Israel must be innocent because decent counties are staying silent
Now Palestinians must be guilty because nobodt is offering shelter
The world is now facing a massive refugee crisis on a scale never seen - why should countries already involved in dealing with them want to add to that problem
If Israel get's its way and ethnically cleanses the Artabs fro their homes that crisis will expand beyond belied
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:54 AM

NO-ONE has called on ANY COUNTRY BUT Israel to take in these Palestinian refugees- WHY IS THAT?

Why doesn't Iran, which drove out a large Jewish population, take in the Palestinians and provide homes for them?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:42 AM

Until their supporters here are willing to address the greater numbers of Jews driven out of Arab nations AND SETTLED BY ISRAEL, and the ethnic cleaning of the West bank after the 1948 war, there will never be any consensus here about the region.

No matter how may times that is addressed and acknowledged absolutely nothing can be done about it. It happened 70 years ago and, unless you can provide a time machine, what do you expect people to do? The problems in Gaza are happening now and things can be done about them. You cannot justify what is happening now by saying the Arabs did much worse. Unless you are just talking about revenge?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:34 AM

Only Welsh woman I know is a poetess- Mab Jones. Met her at the Smithsonian Folk Festival (back in 2009?).

IMO, the Palestinians are truly victims- Of the brutality of the Arab League, in not settling them back in 1948.

Until their supporters here are willing to address the greater numbers of Jews driven out of Arab nations AND SETTLED BY ISRAEL, and the ethnic cleaning of the West bank after the 1948 war, there will never be any consensus here about the region.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:21 AM

Even the Welsh Nationalists tried bombing the English,
until they realised they were just not cut out to be 'terrorists'...

Now they use a new more devastating method of undermining English domination
- they marry us...


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:18 AM

"Meanwhile, on the Gaza border, "
Taken from THE DAILY WIRE
This has become nothing more than meaningless propaganda hurling
"Meanwhile, on the real Gaza border"
THE SHOOTING DOWN OF ONE HUNDRED PLUS UNARMED DEMONSTRATORS, INCLUDING CHILDREN, WITHOUT MAKING ANY EFFORT CONTROL THEM BY CONVENTIONAL WAYS IS MASS MURDER - SIMPLE BUTCHERY   
IT IS NOW BEING RECOGNIZED AS SUCH

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:17 AM

interesting duplication of the word interest..

must not edit and post in a hurry to go out and catch a train...


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:15 AM

Bruce, the issue of using human shields is indeed a very serious breach of human rights and needs to be addressed by a separate discussion. Remember we have had those that have stated quite categorically on this forum that collateral damage can be completely avoided nowadays. The number of killed and wounded seems to indicate that this was not the case here.

I also agree that to some Palestinians Israelis are justifiable targets. Just as the British were legitimate targets for the IRA, the Twin Towers attack was justified to al-Qaeda and 13 dead made sense to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold at Columbine. But that is all 'whataboutism'. 2 wrongs do not make a right and cannot be used to justify mass shootings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:14 AM

"non lethal riot control methods"....

that'd possibly be an interesting thing to google for anyone who has sufficient interest and time.....

How far did military scientists get with developing the 'brown note' sonic weapon...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Acme
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:12 AM

No one believes it was arbitrary. No one believes that all those shot were innocent. No one believes that all those shot were terrorists.

These people were unarmed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:11 AM

And according to the reports, the claims YOU keep posting come from Hamas,- the same ones who have just committed multiple violations of the Geneva conventions using human shields in the present attacks on the PRE-1967 ( 1948) BORDER of Israel, that they CLAIM to recognize ( according to McGrath) as valid.

So? What information will YOU accept- ONLY that that meets your preset idea of what is happening?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 10:07 AM

JC,

"Many of the problems of Israel are a hangover from British rule and the result of a hurried exit of the Imperial power with a wish to wash its hands of a self-created problem"

I AGREE 100% on this point.


But the Arab League has something to answer for, as well.
Look at India and Pakistan- FAR more refugees and killing, but NO current refugee camps like those created by the Arab League to keep the Palestinians in as a source of cannon fodder. NO resident population of millions of descendants of refugees being kept homeless by those who should have taken them in, as Israel did with the greater number of Jews driven out of Arab nations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 09:58 AM

Meanwhile, on the Gaza border, Hamas broadened its monthlong campaign to break down the Israel border, staging border "protests" attended by thousands — including terrorists who have used the supposed protests as a staging point for violent attacks on Israeli troops and territory. Palestinian terrorists have caused mass chaos, throwing Molotov cocktails at troops, attempting to rush the border, flinging explosives and tying incendiaries to kites in an attempt to set Israeli territory alight. The Israeli Defense Forces have responded with restraint. Despite this, a few dozen Palestinians have been killed, not the hundreds or thousands Hamas would presumably prefer.

But even as Yahya Sinwar, leader of Hamas in Gaza, suggested that "more than 100,000 people could storm the fence" between Israel and Gaza, and as 23-year-old Mohammed Mansoura announced, "We are excited to storm and get inside ... to kill, throw stones," the media covered the slow-rolling terror assault as a form of peaceful protest. A New York Times headline read "Israeli Troops Kill Dozens of Palestinian Protesters." A Wall Street Journal headline reads "Scores Killed, Thousands Injured as Palestinians Protest US Embassy Opening In Jerusalem."

Never mind that the riots had been going on for weeks preceding the embassy opening. Never mind that Hamas and the Palestinian Authority could quickly and permanently end all violence simply by stopping the violence. The real issue, according to the press, is President Trump and his Israeli friends.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 09:55 AM

According to the Jerusalem Post the claim came from "The Military" - the same ones who have just committed 100 plus murders
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 09:55 AM

" because some Palestinians are terrorists, and no one is denying that, it is OK to use live rounds on and randomly kill any Palestinians is it? "

Hardly random if tens out of tens of thousands are being killed. Sounds like pretty accurate targeting of know terrorists.

Remember, Hamas is using human shields ( In violation of the Geneva Conventions). Not one comment about that from the people so concerned about human* lives.

*NOTE: Obviously, Israelis are NOT human to these people- they have no problem with the attacks ON Israelis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 18 - 09:54 AM

As prominent Harvard Law School professor Alan Dershowitz wrote in The Hill, the world has been largely made to believe that Israel arbitrarily shot and killed more than 50 innocent civilians.

No one believes it was arbitrary. No one believes that all those shot were innocent. No one believes that all those shot were terrorists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 09:53 AM

I should have said "Your UNLINKED (again) information of course
Trawling the extremist sewer press time again
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 09:53 AM

I should have said "Your UNLINKED (again) information of course
Trawling the extremist sewer press time again
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 May 18 - 09:51 AM

"...........hmm:"
Your "information came from Islamophobic Canadian newspaper The National Post

National Post
On May 19, 2006, the newspaper ran two pieces alleging that the Iranian parliament had passed a law requiring religious minorities to wear special identifying badges. One piece was a front-page news item titled "IRAN EYES BADGES FOR JEWS" accompanied by a 1935 picture of two Jews bearing Nazi-ordered yellow badges. Later on the same day, experts began coming forward to deny the accuracy of the Post story. The story proved to be false, but not before it had been picked up by a variety of other news media and generated comment from world leaders. Comments on the story by the Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper caused Iran to summon Canada's ambassador to Tehran, Gordon E. Venner, for an explanation.
On May 24, 2006, the editor-in-chief of the newspaper, Doug Kelly, published an apology for the story on Page 2, admitting that it was false and the National Post had not exercised enough caution or checked enough sources.[18]
Canadian Islamic Congress
From 1998 to 2014, the now defunct Canadian Islamic Congress (CIC) had been actively monitoring media coverage for anti-Muslim or anti-Islam sentiment and had issued reports highlighting its findings. It had opposed the use of phrases such as "Islamic guerrillas," "Islamic insurgency" and "Muslim militants" saying that terms like "militant" or "terrorist" should be used without a religious association "since no religion teaches or endorses terrorism, militancy or extremism."[19] The Congress had singled out the National Post, saying the paper "consistently is No. 1" as an anti-Islam media outlet.[20]

A number of writers for the National Post have subsequently criticized the CIC over accusations that the newspaper is anti-Islam. Alexander Rose, wrote that "judging by its [CIC's] support for the [2001] Durban Conference, during which hook-nosed Jews were equated with apartheid and genocide, the CIC doesn't seem to have problems with some kinds of truly inflammatory racist language" and that the CIC's "fetish for censorship in the interest of "social harmony", as the CIC puts it, reeks of the very authoritarianism oppressing Muslims in Egypt, Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia." In addition, Rose stated that "By editing out bad language, it seems, the CIC believes that correct thoughts will result, even at the necessary expense of reporting the truth."[21] Robert Fulford wrote that the CIC "justifies its existence mainly by complaining about acts of prejudice that haven't happened" and that "it's ridiculous to suggest that we avoid the subject of religion when crimes are committed in the name of that religion by men and women considered part of it",[22] while Jonathan Kay wrote that "the folks at the Canadian Islamic Congress purport to be the arbiters of what can and can't be said in this country" and that CIC President Elmasry is "the country's self-appointed judge of all that is hateful." [23]

As you say
"...........hmm:"


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy 70th Birthday to the Jewish State
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 18 - 09:51 AM

Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh and other top Hamas leaders made a trip to Egypt on Sunday, and were told "unequivocally" that Egypt would not tolerate Hamas' continued instigation on the Gaza Strip, Israeli Intelligence Minister Israel Katz said, according to Reuters.

Egypt has acted as a political broker between Israel and Hamas, and has worked with both bitter enemies to fight ISIS.

“Haniyeh returned to Gaza, Hamas gave an order ... and miraculously, this spontaneous protest by a public that could not handle the situation any more dissipated,” Katz told Israeli media.


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