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Tech: Download from Spotify!!

Bonzo3legs 18 May 18 - 02:44 AM
Nick 18 May 18 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,Reynard 18 May 18 - 07:02 AM
Bonzo3legs 18 May 18 - 08:05 AM
GUEST 18 May 18 - 08:34 AM
Bonzo3legs 18 May 18 - 09:07 AM
GUEST,Nemo 18 May 18 - 10:06 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 May 18 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Greg F. 18 May 18 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,Reynard 18 May 18 - 11:24 AM
Bonzo3legs 18 May 18 - 12:06 PM
Joe Offer 18 May 18 - 12:10 PM
punkfolkrocker 18 May 18 - 12:29 PM
Nick 18 May 18 - 12:49 PM
Bonzo3legs 18 May 18 - 01:03 PM
punkfolkrocker 18 May 18 - 01:03 PM
Bonzo3legs 18 May 18 - 05:39 PM
punkfolkrocker 18 May 18 - 07:19 PM
punkfolkrocker 18 May 18 - 07:35 PM
robomatic 18 May 18 - 10:12 PM
GUEST,Bob 19 May 18 - 02:18 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 May 18 - 02:57 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 May 18 - 03:01 AM
David Carter (UK) 19 May 18 - 03:37 AM
GUEST 19 May 18 - 03:46 AM
Bonzo3legs 19 May 18 - 04:25 AM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 19 May 18 - 06:59 AM
GUEST 19 May 18 - 10:09 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 May 18 - 01:32 PM
Nick 19 May 18 - 01:37 PM
Nick 19 May 18 - 01:39 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 May 18 - 01:58 PM
GUEST 19 May 18 - 05:28 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 May 18 - 06:45 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 May 18 - 06:53 PM
robomatic 19 May 18 - 07:38 PM
GUEST 20 May 18 - 02:08 AM
GUEST,Bob 20 May 18 - 03:13 AM
Bonzo3legs 20 May 18 - 05:40 AM
GUEST 20 May 18 - 11:11 AM
robomatic 21 May 18 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,Bob 22 May 18 - 08:23 AM
punkfolkrocker 22 May 18 - 09:55 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Jun 18 - 04:49 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Jun 18 - 06:25 AM
GUEST,Modette 03 Jun 18 - 08:21 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Jun 18 - 09:09 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Jun 18 - 09:45 AM
GUEST,Greenie 03 Jun 18 - 09:56 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Jun 18 - 10:00 AM
GUEST,Greenie 03 Jun 18 - 10:04 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Jun 18 - 01:28 PM
Bonzo3legs 04 Jun 18 - 04:18 AM
sleepyjon 05 Jun 18 - 02:37 PM
Bonzo3legs 05 Jun 18 - 03:41 PM
GUEST,romeover 05 Jun 18 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 06 Jun 18 - 07:47 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Jun 18 - 08:37 AM
punkfolkrocker 06 Jun 18 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Reynard 06 Jun 18 - 09:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 06 Jun 18 - 09:59 AM
FreddyHeadey 06 Jun 18 - 10:15 AM
GUEST,Fred 06 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Jun 18 - 01:41 PM
robomatic 06 Jun 18 - 02:22 PM
Bonzo3legs 08 Jun 18 - 07:57 AM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 09 Jun 18 - 02:04 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jun 18 - 02:31 PM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 10 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jun 18 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,Philna 10 Jun 18 - 02:24 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jun 18 - 02:43 PM
Bonzo3legs 10 Jun 18 - 02:49 PM
GUEST,Bob the Mudcat Misery 11 Jun 18 - 03:41 AM
Bonzo3legs 11 Jun 18 - 03:57 AM
GUEST,Bob the Mudcat Misery 11 Jun 18 - 04:13 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jun 18 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Bob the Mudact Misery 11 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM
Bonzo3legs 11 Jun 18 - 09:28 AM
GUEST,Philna 11 Jun 18 - 09:44 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jun 18 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Bob the Mudcat Misery 11 Jun 18 - 10:48 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jun 18 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 11 Jun 18 - 11:26 AM
Bonzo3legs 11 Jun 18 - 11:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jun 18 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Bob the Mudcat Misery 11 Jun 18 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,Philna 11 Jun 18 - 02:30 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Jun 18 - 05:22 PM
Bonzo3legs 11 Jun 18 - 05:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jun 18 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 12 Jun 18 - 08:24 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jun 18 - 09:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jun 18 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 12 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jun 18 - 10:11 AM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 13 Jun 18 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,paperback 15 Jun 18 - 10:27 PM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 15 Jun 18 - 11:16 PM
GUEST,paperback 16 Jun 18 - 01:49 AM
GUEST,paperback 17 Jun 18 - 12:33 PM
robomatic 17 Jun 18 - 03:55 PM
GUEST,paperback 17 Jun 18 - 05:47 PM
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Subject: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 May 18 - 02:44 AM

The trick is to use Tuneskit Spotify Converter for downloading music from Spotify. This is software which normally costs £30 to buy or free if you acquire a working registration code.

It nominally saves to mp3 format up to 320kbps but has the option to convert to a number of other formats.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Nick
Date: 18 May 18 - 06:21 AM

Silly question - but why would you bother?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Reynard
Date: 18 May 18 - 07:02 AM

More importantly, why would you think this was OK to do?

I would be very surprised if there's anything on Spotify that's actually out of print, so please, just buy the CD or pay for a legitmate download. This is illegal and the artists get nothing


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 May 18 - 08:05 AM

Well actually it provides an opportunity to listen to a CD before ordering, or not, from Amazon, just like the old days when listening to an LP or single in a record shop before buying.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 18 - 08:34 AM

If you have Spotify Premium ($10 per month here in the U.S.) you can download up to 3,333 songs on up to 3 different devices at no extra charge.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 May 18 - 09:07 AM

But you still cannot download DRM free music files.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Nemo
Date: 18 May 18 - 10:06 AM

but why would you bother? This is illegal and the artists get nothing.

Because that's the Bozo Way. Him first, and devil take the hindmost. Who cares if the artist gets screwed?

He's gleefully posted his tips on how to get free music & screw artists
many tomes previously.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 May 18 - 10:31 AM

I'm an artist and nobody has wanted to screw me for decades...

Perhaps if I made myself more presentable, and washed my feet more frequently...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Greg F.
Date: 18 May 18 - 11:19 AM

Definately the feet.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Reynard
Date: 18 May 18 - 11:24 AM

"Well actually it provides an opportunity to listen to a CD before ordering"

That's what Spotify's online service is for (and it's even free if you listen to a few adverts), so that doesn't really excuse or explain the need to download.

I don't think there's ever been a time when record shops allowed you to make a copy of a record and take it away with you on the basis that you might come back and buy the original.

Seeing as this is a folk music forum, and even the "big names" in our genre are not exactly minted, I urge you to think about the morality of your actions.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 May 18 - 12:06 PM

Noted


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 18 - 12:10 PM

We sometimes get cries for deleting threads about illegal downloading, but we just don't make a practice of deleting stuff. It wasn't too long ago when it was hard to share a song with someone, or to listen to a sample recording to see if one wanted to buy. But now it's easy, and it seems silly to figure out schemes for downloading. If I want to have somebody else hear a song, I can usually send a link.

But some people still do it, and it's interesting to see what lengths they go to, to do illegal downloads.

Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 May 18 - 12:29 PM

A question to the most sanctimonious and pious amongst us...

If a friend said "come over here, and listen to this track, see what you think of it...???

Would your automatic reply be

"no.. hold on there, have you the appropriate paid intellectual rights licence for me to do so...!!!???"


Folks need to keep reality and practicalities in perspective...

Spotify is hardly the most charitable benefactor of musical talent...

..and folks who enjoy convenient grey area ways to hear new music are not always habitual villainous pirates and thieves...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Nick
Date: 18 May 18 - 12:49 PM

Spot on

I happily subscribe to spotify premium and hope that the little dribble that gets back to artists gets there. Some months I use it sometimes not.

I have 300 or 400 vinyl albums which I started collecting at 32 and 6 pence a I remember

But I don't try and get round it. If you are that poor I'm sorry for you and will try to help...

Threw out 300-500 cassettes yesterday because my wife wanted the room (?)

How much money have I given to artists in my life? Probably not enough.

My lifetimes paid income from music is probably less than a £1000 (I'm recalculating as I type)

So my spotify subscription seems ok. It's a business model that apparently works or not. But it isn't my problem to sort it.

My son his on spotify and holy shit can he play the guitar (not in this genre and he's made tuppence but also realised that he didn't want to live in a van)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 May 18 - 01:03 PM

We await delivery of CDs by Blair Dunlop and Clive Gregson/Liz Simcock from Amazon tomorrow. Next................


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 May 18 - 01:03 PM

A meeting of old and new technologies..

get yer cassette recorder out of the loft and tape spotify tracks off a PC or phone..

Remember "HOME TAPING IS KILLING MUSIC !!!!!"

If a friend hands you a cassette and points to your new LP or 8-track tape, just say no, and call the police...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 May 18 - 05:39 PM

"I would be very surprised if there's anything on Spotify that's actually out of print, so please, just buy the CD or pay for a legitmate download. This is illegal and the artists get nothing"

For Clapton's sake - the artist gets publicity, people listen, tell others, buy CD, make copy for a friend who then book tickets to see the artist.

I do NOT listen to sanctimoneous whinging from mudcat miseries.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 May 18 - 07:19 PM

Anyway, I can't speak for bonkers incoherent GUEST...

But I've just preordered a double Live CD set off Amazon,
and bought 2 budget priced box sets last night...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 May 18 - 07:35 PM

oh... and just preordered another CD I didn't know was in the pipeline...

GUEST can go stuff a blank cassette tape up his/her ****...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 18 May 18 - 10:12 PM

Theft is theft?

As for current artists, there are legal methods for them to collect the fruit of their labors. What fruits? What labors?

What does the average musician make when their work is listened to on Spotify? Does anyone in this thread really know?

Apple has been selling music by the track for what- ten years? How much of that goes to the artist?

Are we talking fair trade? Or legal theft?

When Ricky Lee Jones played here, I paid for a USB bracelet which contained ALL her albums. The music belonged to me, was not DRM and did not waste space.

I can comprehend a system that pays a creator a modicum everytime their work is played at the request of a user.

I don't have a lot of respect for the middlemen who create nothing and charge for the use of other people's work, but have parlayed their ownership of other peoples' work into profits for themselves. Case in point, the folks who sued and charged for every use of the "Happy Birthday" song long after it was gone from its creators and their relatives.

So where is the money really going?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 19 May 18 - 02:18 AM

Who'd have thought it?

I went to Tesco and bought a 4 pint carton of milk; bargain price! The big boys know how discount - sod the farmers!

Wouldn't you know it? I forgot tea bags! So I popped into my corner shop and nicked 40 Tetley's . . . . not a 240 box!!! I'm not selfish!!

Bastard owner! I told him I'd already bought my milk but he still accused me of theft!

Some people are complete twats; no?

Bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 02:57 AM

I wonder how much per month an average hardline 'theft is theft' paragon of miserableness
spends on recorded music...???

I wonder how many are misers who don't even like music..???


I bet some even lean out their window with their ear trumpets
scanning for passing groups teenagers sharing music on a portable speaker..

fingers poised to call an emergency music rights lawyer...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 03:01 AM

... and I bet they puncture any balls kicked over their garden fence...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 19 May 18 - 03:37 AM

I can't get Spotify off my tablet. Along with Kobo books, Raketen TV, and the Tesco shopping app (it being a Tesco tablet), Android refuses to let me uninstall them.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 18 - 03:46 AM

You've got me bang to rights there mate! . . . . I DON'T spend a great deal each month on recorded music.

Like many people, I don't have a great deal of spare money.

However, living in north Derbyshire I am spoilt for opportunities to listen to live music, much of it freely given at sessions and singarounds, but also the occasional gig at places like The Globe in Glossop or Greystones in Sheffield.

I do have the luxury of an extensive record and CD collection, built up over 50+ years, which grows very slowly these days; but, I do add to it now and again, usually buying CDs from the acts I see at gigs.

I have been known to smile once in awhile, too.

When someone kicks a ball over my garden fence, I don't puncture it. Neither do I claim it for my own just because it's there for the taking.

Sanctimonious? Probably, I have many faults. But one of them is not imagining the faults of others to excuse my own inadequacies.

Have a happy Saturday!

Bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 May 18 - 04:25 AM

And you have a happy Saturday too, beautiful sunshine on the Surrey North Downs this morning.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 19 May 18 - 06:59 AM

Sorry about the previous post ...

"What does the average musician make when their work is listened to on Spotify? Does anyone in this thread really know?"

Is a good question. I know a person with music there, he tells me a typical payment for a play from one of the streaming websites is something like 0.4p. There are probably people here who have numbers, does this agree with their experience ?

"So where is the money really going? "

To the people who run the websites ? This is the internet advertising economy - the music on spotify is clickbait to attract eardrums that they can rent to the advertisers, unless they're paid not to.

I have some recordings that will be hitting the Big Wide World shortly, and the above is why I won't be putting them out via the streaming sites. I'll be putting them on bandcamp, who make their money by selling recordings and taking a percentage. From the musician's point of view, this seems a much healthier idea.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 18 - 10:09 AM

It's a buffoon who can change his type size which is interesting for a casual guest.I wonder who that might be....

Likely any one of multiple millions of persons with a rudimentary knowledge of HTML.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:32 PM

The fact that a moaning misery GUEST would even go to the trouble of manipulating HTML
for no significant purpose,
does tend to indicate a rather odd uptight personality...

excellent... I thrive on folks like that... they willingly present themselves for derision...



As if they only listen to the limited few tracks they ever pay for...?????


Though, nearly 40 years ago I did know a bloke who actually literally did
only buy and listen to Meatloaf's "Bat out of Hell" cassette..

He rarely came out of his room, and as far as we knew had no other access to hearing any other music...

He'd be in his 60s now...

Wonder if he's a folkie now.. a mudcatter maybe...?????


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:37 PM

Well people I know are good singers and players - an example Wendy Arrowsmith - haven't retired yet

Even Holy Moly and the Crackers - great band and just happen to know one or two of them - go from 4000 (decent) to 100000 and 383000 plays.

Work their socks off. Keep buying the cds

Sons band are sitting at the 30-40000 plays. Not rich yet

Bit heavy for a folk site


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:39 PM

I really enjoyed GUEST in this thread


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:58 PM

At this point in the 21st Century I still continue to follow the 1970's punk/indie ethos
of artists selling direct and cutting out all middle men...

In a tiny niche market like ours it's a point of honour and integrity
not to rip off our friends and contemporaries...

Though for practicality, there needs to be sufficient reasonable flexibility
for our music getting heard by potential buyers
without petty officious loud mouthed knowalls getting all bitter and over-legalistic...

I'd be surprised, no.. disturbed, if any of us had expectations of getting a mansion and rolls royce off of music sales...

Ed Sheeran has fleeced all that spare money out of the punters.. he's got your share...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 18 - 05:28 PM

Sadly, yer still missin' the point, Laddie.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 06:45 PM

Make your point clearly then...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 06:53 PM

... and while you are at it, identify yourself...
at least to the extent of using a consistent name, if only for this thread..

Who knows how many GUESTS there are here in total..
and which is the most worthy of being taken seriously...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 19 May 18 - 07:38 PM

GUEST Bob. I have no problem with your posts, other than understanding them.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 18 - 02:08 AM

robomatic:

What's your first language?

Bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 20 May 18 - 03:13 AM

For robomatic

Best of luck,
Bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 May 18 - 05:40 AM

I shall download some more from spotify today!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 18 - 11:11 AM

Steal a few for me, willya Robolarceny?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 21 May 18 - 03:25 PM

Bob, apparently you have syntax flaws. You can't tell the difference between questions and declarative sentences.
You also appear to be confused on who is posting what.
Hoping your hair-trigger heals but not expecting an apology,
Robo


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:23 AM

I have "syntax flaws"?

I'm sure that sounded very clever inside your head, robomatic.

ROTFLMAO

Bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 18 - 09:55 AM

Whatever Bonz's reason for starting this thread,
he provided an opportunity for serious debate on complex modern issues
relevant to our work, marketing, and reward systems...

Too much to ask of mudcat in it's declining moribund state of health...???

Oh well... never mind... none of us are getting any younger, or more tolerant...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 04:49 AM

Managed to grab Rock On by The Bunch!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 06:25 AM

Tuneskit Spotify Converter does the trick!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 08:21 AM

Steal away, Bonzo.

PS Do you buy your exclamation marks wholesale?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 09:09 AM

No, free with kosher bacon!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 09:45 AM

Get away with whatever you can!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Greenie
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 09:56 AM

Bonzo,

Any idea where I can download the time to listen to all this?

Greenie


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 10:00 AM

Very stupid thing to say lad.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Greenie
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 10:04 AM

I guess not.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 01:28 PM

So, Tuneskit Spotify Music Converter opens Spotify, but it's not possible to listen to tracks. The trick is to open regular Spotify first to listen then copy either the album or selection of tracks link and paste it into TSMC for downloading.

Not of course for albums already ordered!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 04:18 AM

However, I might play a regular CD over breakfast this morning!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: sleepyjon
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:37 PM

I tiptoe in with due deference - seems a lot of heat but not much light above.

Just a simple question - Spotify is free to use (if you can stand the ads) so does the artist get paid if I do that? - and if I "rewind" and listen again, does the artist get paid again? - I'm sure you'll see where I'm going with that.

SJ


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 03:41 PM

Exactly, well said!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,romeover
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 05:39 PM

From Hugh Blumenfeld, (and it's copyrighted):

Whatever happened to Mozart's money
Where the hell did it go?
They say he spent it all on wine and women
But even so--
I know a guy who wrote a song for Garth Brooks
And now he's got it made for life
But Mozart never really made a lot of money
And that's what I tell my wife
I'd like to know what happened to Poe's
Investment portfolio
Maybe he walled it up in that crypt
With his good friend Fortunato
I know a guy who knows Stephen King
Who'll be a sheik in the afterlife
But Mr. Poe never made much dough
And that's what I tell my wife
I accost her with tales of Stephen Foster
And the visionary William Blake
I say "Honey, you can't count the money
That a genius doesn't make."
But Wallace Stevens was also from Hartford
A big insurance man
William Carlos Williams was a pediatrician
And Eliot worked in a bank
Time will tell if they were poets as well
Or if they're just big books on the shelf
But most of my heroes never made a lot of money
And that's what I keep telling myself
What ever happened to Mozart's money--and what about van Gogh?
I tell you there's more than blood that's red in the books of Edgar Allen Poe
Imagination in large denominations is something you can never earn
But the poor damned souls who made Mozart's money, still got money to burn
Yeah, the poor damned souls who made Mozart's money
They still got money to burn


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 07:47 AM

"Spotify is free to use ... so does the artist get paid ?"

Anecdotal - I don't have any tracks there myself, or exact numbers, but I know someone who does. He tells me a "typical" payment from the streaming sites would be a fraction of a penny per play.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 08:37 AM

Ah well, a couple of dozen fractions of a penny is neither here nor there - carry on downloading, recording gigs and radio!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 09:22 AM

Bonz - it's not the money that matters - it's the principle...

Mudcat miseries can't tolerate folks on low incomes
ripping off big mega music corporations
that ruthlessly profiteer by exploiting powerless artists...


...though I guess a 'low income' is relative here at mudcat...
us members being a mix of folks from skint musicians to rather comfortably well off pensioners...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Reynard
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 09:38 AM

Anyone can have their music put on Spotify for a payment of around £30, you don't have to be a "mega music corporation" or even signed to a label. The fact that Spotify pays risible rates to artists is a fair point but a seperate issue.

Artists accept that they get almost nothing in return because Spotify is a good way to publicise their music and hopefully, get people to pay for it later. If you genuinely can't afford to buy music, you can continue to listen to it for free on Spotify- at least the artist will recieve their pittance. If you are going to the trouble of downloading if off Spotify, you really ought to buy it.

I couldn't care less if you're illegally downloading the Rolling Stones or Radiohead, but I thought this site was focussed on folk and trad music where we are largely talking about a scene where even the most well known artists are probably only just scraping by.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 09:59 AM

Reynard - if you look back at my earlier posts in this thread, you'll see we are in agreement...


But we can still have a tongue in cheek chuckle at mudcat miseries,
and the 21st Century music industry...

I'd be happy to make the price of a few sets of strings off selling direct to my 'fans'...[hello mum...]...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 10:15 AM

I've definitely gone along to concerts based on what I've heard on Spotify.
Once there, if I'm feeling flush, I'll buy a CD
which I'll probably only play a couple of times.
I often find there is only one track I particularly like from a whole CD.

Of artists I play on Spotify I'd guess 50% are dead and I don't mind too much if the current copyright holder doesn't make much.

Ive got a short attention span, I don't often play more than half a dozen tracks from a single artist.
I'll go through a spell of listening to my own Spotify playlists. I'm sorry living artists aren't getting a decent £ for that.
Then I'll listen to other stuff I've earmarked and find there is only one track out of twenty I might want ever to hear again.

A few years ago someone tried to set up a micropayment system through lastfm & PayPal.
But I think is was very messy and it turned out that pp was still taking a big %.

I don't think I'd go to the trouble of downloading something.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Fred
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM

Steal away,Steal away,Steal away like Bozo.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 01:41 PM

Mudcat miseries - I like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 02:22 PM

I can't resist, even though it's been posted before in mudcat:

A Folksinger Earns Every Dime
(David Buskin/Robin Batteau/Avera Bingham)

Come all you wearers of Birkenstock shoes
You LL Beaners and you J. Crews
We'll tell you a story of toil and of strife
And the hardship that comes with a folksinger's life

Well, it's up in the morning as early as ten
And it's yesterday's coffee or make some again
But you gotta get rolling 'cause it's almost noon
The show is at eight and there's six strings to tune

And it's hard, buddy, it's hard
Living off rhythm and rhyme
Well it's hard, bucko, it's hard
A folksinger earns every dime

Your fingers are sore from the concert last night
But you've gotta ignore it, there's folk songs to write
'Bout people and places and hard luck and things
Wherever there's trouble, a folksinger sings

Well you're out on the road and the living is hell
You might even get stuck in some two-star hotel
Where they haven't got Showtime and the bed sheets are creased
And the room service takes twenty minutes at least

And it's hard, fella, it's hard
Living off rhythm and rhyme
Well it's hard, amigo, it's hard
A folksinger earns every dime

Well, it's off to the hoot but you're having bad luck
The crowd yells, Sing 'Love Shack!"
The crowd yells, "You suck!"
And the trio before you is playing too long
They just closed out their set with your opening song

And it's hard, hoo boy, it's hard
Living off rhythm and rhyme
Well it's hard, dude, it's hard
A folksinger earns every dime

You're playing a festival south of the Smokies
On a stool full of splinters and a field full of folkies
Tom Paxton is late so you gotta keep strummin'
When a man cries, "Look out, there's a mime troupe a-comin"'

Your blood starts to boil and your skin starts to crawl
They're doing the Robot, they're doing the Wall
It's like a bad dream or a weird deja vu
Of the Great Mime Disaster of '72

And it's hard, Muffy, it's hard
Living off rhythm and rhyme
Well it's hard, Woody, it's hard
A folksinger earns every dime


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:57 AM

Listening to a recent David Crosby gig - superb!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 02:04 PM

"Mudcat miseries can't tolerate folks on low incomes ripping off big mega music corporations that ruthlessly profiteer by exploiting powerless artists..."

Has it occurred to you that if you do that, *you* are ripping off the powerless artists for the tiny pittance that's all Spotify gives them, and leaving them with nothing at all in exchange for their work ?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 02:31 PM

Yes...

Do I do it.... NO...!!!!

Do I think whoever you are, you have probably not read all this thread,
and are a bit over zealously officious in accounting for minute fractions
of pennies...?????


I personally avoid spotify because I think it's shit...

But I can understand & tolerate real world circumstances where individuals might try to circumvent download restrictions...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM

It's strawmen all the way down, then.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 11:01 AM

Sorry, haven't a clue what point you are now trying to make...???

Perhaps you'd like to clarify.....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Philna
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 02:24 PM

But I can understand & tolerate real world circumstances

Real world circumstances like theft, I take it.

Can you also tolerate real world circumstances like rape?

Just curious.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 02:43 PM

I am trying to tolerate mean spirited idiots...

GUEST posting as Philna - are you really this disturbingly stupid, or just playing it up for laughs...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 02:49 PM

he she or it is training to be a mudcat misery!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob the Mudcat Misery
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 03:41 AM

"Mean spirited idiots" who object to theft?

My God, Trump arrives on Mudcat.

Perhaps you should email this guy and tell him not to be a 'mean spirited idiot'?

Instruments Stolen - Hexham UK

If believing theft is wrong I'm a 'mudcat misery' and proud.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 03:57 AM

Drivel


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob the Mudcat Misery
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 04:13 AM

Shit, my misery is slipping!

That post, Bonzo, made me smile.

If you you'd written "Drivel. SAD!" I would have been in tucks LOL


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 08:34 AM

this GUEST [is it really more than one ...???] is either seriously deranged, or a very unfunny failed comedian...???

perhaps Bob might know a link where these stolen instruments can be downloaded from...???

email it to the police...

It's a shame such idiotic GUESTS can't download rationality and sanity...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob the Mudact Misery
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM

Can't speak for the other "Guests", punkelfolkrocker, but I am only posting here as "Bob" although (whisper) . . . it isn't my real name.

Getting back to Guest Philna's post:

Given that on 03 Jun 18 at 09:45 AM, advocated "Get away with whatever you can!!!", I think his/her question is a fair one.

We know you're more than willing to take stuff that doesn't belong to you so, what else would you do if you could get away with it?

And you can call me as many names as you want, it won't make it right.

Bob (As miserable as ever!) :0)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 09:28 AM

I'm sure that ffmpeg will do it!!! What it will do very well is record festival live webcasts in real time, so that someone in the USA or the UK for instance can capture a festival performance in Australia as it happens, which would probably annoy the mudcat miseries!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Philna
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 09:44 AM

My God, Trump arrives on Mudcat.

Nay, Bob, Trump (or at least Trump clones) have been on Mudcat for some time from what I can see, though I haven't been around all that long. There's BeardedBruce, Bobad, Keith, Iains & a couple more whose names I can't recall at the moment.

As Acme- one of the moderators, I believe, stated a couple of days ago, these Trump-Trolls are a "protected class" for some reason and can get away with antics that would - and apparently have - had others bounced.

I stand with Robert De Niro regarding Trump and Trump-clones.

Cheers,

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 09:48 AM

"We know you're more than willing to take stuff that doesn't belong to you so, what else would you do if you could get away with it?"

I'll put this simply - you are talking libellous shite...!!!

You [is that 'the royal we'...???] know no such thing...

unless you give your own over heated delusions priority over external reality...

Read this thread carefully before continuing to type with your arse...


stupid is stupid...

Come back when you have something sensible to contribute to this thread...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob the Mudcat Misery
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 10:48 AM

Bugger! I didn't realise you were Bonzo's lawyer, I thought you were just his apologist.

I've been reading the thread from the beginning and it seems there are two of you making the case for stealing other people's work and everyone else who thinks it is wrong.

Anyone who disagrees with you is called "stupid", "idiotic", and countless other names.

You ask for sensible contributions but you wouldn't recognise 'sensible' if it was banging you like a salvation army drum.

Bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 11:24 AM

So how long do you want to keep this going then....

all you have is a mean minded argument based on ludicrous unfounded presumptions and accusations....

..and an over active imagination regarding other folks 'criminal activity'...


Are you a bitter old musician who feels cheated out of millions...???


btw, how is calling a foolish person 'stupid' worse than an idiot's unrestrained accusations of theft and rape
on a thread discussing fractions of pennies in spotify 'earnings'...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 11:26 AM

It's an easy way to get some attention


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 11:43 AM

There's always one!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 12:54 PM

..and [now that i've had a good clear out in the bog - phew.. that feels better...]

I'll just add that regarding me being a bonzo 'apologist'...

Well.. down below in BS we are long standing adversaries on opposite ends of the political spectrum;
and may probably be at each other's throats again in the oncoming months ahead...

But up here we enjoy much in common in terms of electric guitars and classic rock music...
..and we both enjoy winding up and taunting the mudcat miseries...

I do prefer to look for the best in folks...

Even GUESTS with grudges and chips on their shoulders might usually be more rational and tolerable company
when signed in and posting under their usual mudcat member names...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob the Mudcat Misery
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 01:56 PM

Richard Robinson: not sure who you're slapping down with that but it IS an excellent point.

Fuck it, I'm off.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Philna
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 02:30 PM

down below in BS we are long standing adversaries on opposite ends of the political spectrum...we both enjoy winding up and taunting the mudcat miseries...

Ta for the explanation. Appreciated, since an uninitiate reading "down below" would assume that there was a large majority of regular folk and then and contrapuntily a cadre of right-wing, me-first-and-devil-take-the-hindmost folks existing in a fact-free environment "entoirly originatin' from next ta nuthin'.

P.S.: Who precisely are the "we" referenced above?

Cheers,

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 05:22 PM

This thread is teetering on the edge of the BS abyss.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 05:33 PM

And my hard drive is getting full of spotify downloads!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 05:50 PM

Whatever bonz had in mind,
there was almost potential for a viable discussion about who the 'real villains' are
in 21st century music biz...
but cranky guests thought otherwise...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 08:24 AM

¨not sure who you're slapping down with that but it IS an excellent point".

I offered it just because it is a good point (and better made there than I've seen it elsewhere. I'm a big admirer of xkcd). Not sure it even matters whether I *am* slapping anyone down, it's just a "if you think the cap fits someone, imagine them wearing it" thing, draw your own conclusions.

But for me it chimes with comments about enjoying winding people up. And thinking that life's too short to spend it providing people with such pointless amusements.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 09:43 AM

I tend to resort to 'winding up' folks who bring nothing but negativity and resentment to mudcat debates...

I do it more out of exasperation, because I am fed up with them deliberately spoiling potentially good discussions
before they can even get off the ground...

I've persevered with this disruptive behaviour for too many years
to let the miseries think they are winning easy victories...

If I do get any 'enjoyment' out of that, it's a meagre bonus...

futile..???? yes....



Btw.. thanks, that is a very good cartoon...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 10:31 AM

Richard - I'm being serious now, are you trying to make money off internet music sales...

If so, are you able to provide a rough breakdown of plays, downloads, earnings, etc...???

One of the newish buzz words for young internet streaming era musicians
is 'income streams'...

...and there is a seemingly unlimited endless supply of these wannabes being churned out of college courses,
all competing online for 'fractions of pennies' for streaming plays and advertising income...

The music industry has had 20 years of this radically changing market to learn to how to evolve and continue profiteering
off the work of hungry musicians eager for attention and success...

It seems to me the old miseries here still have there mindset back in the ancient days
of high street record shops, physical products, and shoplifters,
when the carp on intolerantly & ignorantly about 'theft is theft'...

The world is very different now, and I suspect they are failing to adapt and keep up
with how music is being consumed and shared by mass listeners on the internet...???

Perhaps they still dream of making millions off a hit chart single
and an appearance on Top of the Pops,
and resent never having made it big time...???

Who knows, and who cares...

The best informed and most qualified mudcatters
who could have made a debate like this work intelligently for all our mutual benefit,
have long departed...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM

"Richard - I'm being serious now, are you trying to make money off internet music sales".

I'm not sure. Or, yes, but not very hard and not expecting to succeed very much. Or something ... I do have some recordings for sale, as of a few weeks ago. I didn't make them for the money, just for the interest and to see what I could do, and because I've been playing tunes for 40+ years and thinking maybe it'd be nice to have something to show for it, and so on. But, once you have some recordings and wouldn't mind a few people listening to them, what are you going to do with them ? So I've been looking at these newfangled internet possibilities. Kind of, not really expecting to make any money worth noticing, but interested to think about how it might happen if it wanted to.

Rough breakdown, not very informative yet - I spent some money making a small quantity of physical CDs, which I've been giving away or selling as opportunities arise, and will probably have covered the cost of making them by the end of the summer with a couple of dozen left over. Online, they're at Bandcamp, only, which has so far sold 2 physical CDs and one download for me, for something like 100 plays. They've only been there a couple of weeks, and I haven't done much about letting people know, I've been dropping mentions slowly in a few places and noticing how much interest each different one raises. There's no hurry.

Mostly, I'm a session animal, I go out and play tunes with people for the love of the tunes and the fun of playing them, and take it for granted no-one gets paid. But to make recordings is work, and if anybody's going to be making money off them it should be the people who did the work, which is why they're on Bandcamp and not the streaming sites. I like the way Bandcamp do it - people can listen to them a few times, and if they like what they hear enought to keep their own copy, it's time to pay. I think that's fair enough (and bandcamp make their money by taking a percentage, so their interest is the same as the musicians, as opposed to the fractions-of-a-peanut streaming sites whose interest lies in paying the musicians as little as they can get away with). If anybody wants a free recording to listen to as much as they want, let them come out to a session with their trusty pocket recorder.

"carp on intolerantly & ignorantly" - I am trying to lighten my ignorance. And, those recordings are my work (with more than a little help from my friends, which I'd like to be able to pay them for if any money did materialise) and to me that means I have more right to say what happens with it than anyone else does. I'm definitely intolerant of assertions to the contrary.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 10:11 AM

Richard I owe you an apology for lumping you in with the GUEST tools who set out to kill this thread.
I now recall your name from discussions about recording gear...

Thank you for responding so positively.
We have much in common in history and attitude to 'real' indie music making and distribution...

I will never make back the many thousands of £££$ I've irresponsibly frittered on musical instruments and equipment,
but never expected to since my punk days in the 70s..

Back in the day, our band's self financed and recorded 7" singles..
posted to the BBC and played late at night by John Peel and Anne Nightingale...

That felt like exciting fulfilling achievement enough when we were 18 or 19...

Years of local musicians co-ops and collectives, where profit was anathema..
all that mattered was the music and sharing opportunities with like minded creative musicians...
giving young bands the chances to play on real stages with proper PAs..

I guess a lot of the punk indie ethic grew out of late 60s cottage industry folk LP releases
and old hippies in the Melody Maker / NME back page ads..

"Band members wanted - no bread heads...!!!"...

[too be continued...???]


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 12:59 PM

"no bread heads"

How to make a small fortune as a folk musician - start with a large one.

And, while I'm doing the old favourites :-
"Mummy, Mummy, I want to be a musician when I grow up !"
"Don't be silly dear, no-one does both"

Ahem. I'm GUEST because I don't look in here much, and most of the subject lines don't appeal much when I do (plus I have limited tolerance for people winding each other up). But every now I get interested in a thread - I probably should get round to registering sometime ...

Looks like we're coming from some similar places, yes, except punk never really grabbed me - by the time it came along I'd got tired of being a "music consumer" as the industry likes to call it, and was busy learning northumbrian bagpipe tunes and deeply weird polskas from the middle of Sweden, and so on. I liked the "it was easy, it was cheap, go and do it !" (much truer now now than it was then), but wasn't really interested in much of the music that resulted.

My latest CD purchase arrived this morning - a 3CD set of the Grateful Dead live in London, 1974. It cost an appalling amount of money, but I was curious to see how it matched my memory of the gig ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 10:27 PM

...except punk never really grabbed me...

++++++++++++++

You may not have grasped the concept:

"One of its main tenets was a rejection of mainstream, corporate mass culture"


"An attitude common in the punk subculture is the opposition to selling out, which refers to abandoning of one's values and/or a change in musical style toward pop and embracing anything in mainstream capitalist culture or more radio-friendly rock in exchange for wealth, status, or power."

"The do it yourself (DIY) ideal is common in the punk scene, especially in terms of music recording and distribution, concert promotion, and photocopying magazines, posters and flyers."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_ideologies

++++++++++++++

It gave solace to a generation, the same as any new scene, (including Rap), especially before the inevitable corporate takeover.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 11:16 PM

Yeah, well, like I said, I was doing that already, it was an identity I had no need for.

I don't mean that to sound like I'm knocking it (apart from the bits of it that involved looking down on stuff I liked, anyway), it's obvious that a lot of people did get something from it. It's just that I don't enjoy the music much.

There's probably a very interesting compare-and-contrast exercise that could be done about the ways that the 'hippy' and 'punk' (late 60s, late 70s) attitudes & music were "monetized" - how thoroughly, how quickly, and so on. I'd suspect They were a bit quicker 2nd time round ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 01:49 AM

I made a similar comment to some old soul singers in a huff about young people and rap music years ago. They nearly took my head off.

It's understandable.

Fortunately the list's owner spared me the harsher emails, then got on them for lashing out for having to think.

That's life.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 12:33 PM

Didn't mean to interrupt ur uk luv fest!
Please continue...
It 'was' the least boring thread going!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:55 PM

It takes very little time and horsepower to register to the site and I think it's a sign of (some) respect and (more) consistency if you have the least likelihood of posting more than thrice to a thread or more than once to two or more threads.

"What is a 'bread head'"? Surely not a carbo loader?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 05:47 PM

I'd PM U but since I'm not on board I'll explain, (which I hate doing), out of respect for you.

The above was merely a trawl for G, (whom I also respect), and a creative, (to my mind), refresh.


Peace Out


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