BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest

Subject: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 27 May 18 - 10:49 AM

Tommy Robinson is a Brit and is outspokenly critical of many aspects of Islam in the UK.
Yesterday, he was arrested for "breaching the peace", and immediately sentenced to a 13 month prison sentence.
This has caused a lot of outrage, not only of Tommy supporters, but from many who feel that free speech is under attack.
I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: DMcG
Date: 27 May 18 - 10:55 AM

A linki to give some context

Of particular relevance is: "Judge Heather Norton handed him a three months imprisonment in May last year but suspended it for 18 months on the condition he did not commit further offences."

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 May 18 - 11:34 AM

TOMMY ROBINSON (sic) is an Islamophobic fascist who has broken the law
Personally, I hope they throw the key away
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 May 18 - 11:55 AM

TOMMY ROBINSON (sic) is an Islamophobic fascist who has broken the law
Personally, I hope they throw the key away
Jim Carroll

I fully agree!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 27 May 18 - 12:06 PM

Tommy Robinson clearly doesn't understand what a suspended sentence means.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 27 May 18 - 12:46 PM

I bet he does now!

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 May 18 - 01:05 PM

"Meanwhile, some 70,000 people have signed a petition calling for Mr Robinson to be freed."
PERFECTLY IN LINE WITH THIS
"I see our usual troublemaker is using big words again"
Stop behaving like the man you are apparently defending - he is what he is and has broken the law
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 27 May 18 - 01:09 PM

A law very selectively invoked in this instance. He is an embarrassment to government.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 27 May 18 - 01:18 PM

I'm interested to know who and why - the law, the Establishment, or whoever - has decided to take this action against Tommy.
A number of Youtubers have suggested that he won't last long in prison. Now, if he were killed in prison, that would create real problems.
It is a fact, that Robinson has a huge, and very royal following who see him as the voice of reason in the whole Islam, multicultural debate.
He basic message seems to be that certain aspects of the teachings of Islam do not fit in with Western values, and, also, a number of imported Middle-Eastern Islamic cultural norms are at odds with the British way of doing things.
Whether anyone can, or is willing to, fill the gap that Tommy's imprisonment will create is another matter, but the people who want to silence him better hope that he doesn't become an actual martyr because that would really up the ante.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 May 18 - 01:23 PM

Since when did you or anybody get the right to pick-'n-mix what laws you obey and what you break
Thommy Robinson is a fascist and has worn all the trimmings of one in the parties he belonged to
ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE
EUROPEAN DEFENCE LEAGUE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom
He ia also a criminal Mortgage fraudster
Just the feller to keep out of jail
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 27 May 18 - 01:46 PM

Jim, have you ever broken a speed limit? Well, the answer is YES!
So, I guess YOU have decided what laws you choose to keep or break.
As a previous poster has said this is clearly an attempt to silence him.
This tactic, however, was badly thought through as, for example, the petition to have him released has already passed the 250,000 mark, and the whole affair is likely to turn him in to an even bigger hero to countless Brits...and many interested parties further a field... if Youtube activity is anything to go by.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: bobad
Date: 27 May 18 - 01:50 PM

Imam Tawhidi
?Verified account @Imamofpeace

I’m a practicing Muslim and a third-generation Imam. I’ve known Tommy Robinson for 6 years and he has shown me nothing other than absolute respect and kindness, despite the fact that he completely rejects Islam.

It’s simple: If you want respect, earn it. Don’t rape people.
1:21 AM - 27 May 2018

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Lester
Date: 27 May 18 - 01:51 PM

>It is a fact, that Robinson has a huge, and very **royal** following

Doubt it :)

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 18 - 02:05 PM

His name I believe is actually Stephen Lennon, but he's had several aliases over the years.
He was NOT arrested in order to curtail his 'freedom of speech'. He was arrested for contempt of court and a breach of the Peace. And he was under a suspended sentence (as stated above) so naturally this will result in that sentence being implemented.

'Freedom of speech' is often invoked by folk who are actually inciting hatred and racism etc. One can legally say what one thinks, as long as one isn't causing uproar and encouraging people to persecute other groups or create violence. It's pretty obvious, isn't it, what the difference is?

As to 'choosing which laws to break', the principle is clear, otherwise one would have absolute anarchy. I personally have NEVER broken any law, not even speeding or motoring offences.

Stephen Lennon in his Islamophobia roundly condemns ALL Muslims, rather like hating ALL black people or ALL immigrants etc. He doesn't see people as individuals, but revels in his hate of entire groups. Hitler did that...

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:03 PM

I assumed this would have been a permathread. Could the mods retitle it "Tommy Robinson arrested yet again"?

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:07 PM

It's the old story. I wonder how many of those who attack Robinson have actually listened to him!
Looking up the meaning of Islamophobia, I fond this:" a dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims.
Now, it's not difficult to understand why lots of people, especially in the West, would indeed feel a dislike for certain teaching, and practices of Islam.
And, of course, if I were to ask any Mudcat poster the following questions, it could be argued that their answers would make them Islamophobic.
1) Do you believe homosexuals should be persecuted?
2) Do you believe a person should be killed for leaving their faith?
3) Do you believe that women should have lesser rights than men?
And so on.
Again. if you answer no to any of the above are you Islamophobic?
Nobody in their right minds would say that certain Islamic teachings and practices are acceptable in Western cultures, and that is a big problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:09 PM

"So, I guess YOU have decided what laws you choose to keep or break."
The only occasion I have, I paid the fine happily
Tommy Robinson should do the same - he is a racist and needs to be treated like one
His history in fascist movements speaks clearly for what he stands for

"I’ve known Tommy Robinson for 6 years and he has shown me nothing other than absolute respect and kindness, despite the fact that he completely rejects Islam."
Tawhidi's critics have dubbed him "Australia's fake sheikh."[12][17] Alex McKinnon, in an opinion piece for The Sydney Morning Herald, claimed his "credentials are tough to verify."[11] The Sunni-based Australian National Imams Council (ANIC) does not recognise Tawhidi as an Imam, Sheikh or Muslim leader.[11][12][6] Jennine Khalik, journalist at The Australian,[34] stated that there were valid reasons to question Tawhidi's legitimacy but Imams do not require ANIC approval or recognition to be considered legitimate.[35] She said the ANIC does not have special authority over who is considered an Imam and it does not recognise Shia Imams since it is a Sunni organisation.[35]

According to an opinion piece in the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Tawhidi is not recognized as an Imam or Sheikh by either the Australian National Imams Council or its South Australian equivalent, nor is he affiliated with any Australian mosque or prayer center.[36]

Bronwyn Adcock, writing for the ABC, said Tawhidi had very few supporters in the Muslim community.[10] She also suggested that Tawhidi's teacher, Sadiq Shirazi, is not aligned with the moderate brand of Islam called for by Tawhidi.[10] She cited Shirazi's insistence on having an Islamic system of government instead of a secular democracy and his view that girls can be allowed to marry at the age of nine.[10]

Tawhidi has been accused of being an ally of Australian groups considered far-right such as the Australian Liberty Alliance and One Nation.[12][30] Tawhidi defended One Nation leader Pauline Hanson, saying "if we had politicians like Pauline Hanson in Iraq, in my home town, we wouldn't have had ISIS come in."[13][37] He has partially supported Hanson's proposal to ban Muslim immigration.[1][11][13][37] Tawhidi says he supports "a temporary ban on Muslims coming from the Middle East."[1]

No surprise there then Bobad
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:15 PM

Not often I disagree with you Senoufou, but in this case I do. I do not regard Tommy Robinson as a saint yet we allowed Mustafa Kamel Mustafa to preach hate and Islamic fundementalism from his Finsbury mosque for something like 7 years.In 2004, Hamza was arrested by British police after the United States requested he be extradited to face charges. He was later charged by British authorities with sixteen offences for inciting violence and racial hatred. In 2006, a British court found him guilty of inciting violence, and sentenced him to seven years' imprisonment. On 5 October 2012, after an eight-year legal battle, he was extradited from the UK to the United States to face terrorism charges[4][5] and on 14 April 2014 his trial began in New York.[6] On 19 May 2014, Hamza was found guilty of eleven terrorism charges by a federal jury in Manhattan. On 9 January 2015, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

My reading of the facts is that he was bombproof in the UK until the US requested extradition. WHY WAS THAT?

We also have a potential problem of madrassa schools in the UK. As former Prime Minister David Cameron said some children were "having their heads filled with poison and their hearts filled with hate" in these Muslim supplementary schools.

I have no problem with any kind of racism being stamped on, BUT I would like to know that the playing field is level. I am afraid I have the opposite view as to the extent to which impartiality is shown.
Multiculturalism is something that may occur in time. I strongly resent it being pushed down my throat. I view the proceedings above as a prime example of this agenda being pushed

Raking over the coals of a man's past merely adds to controversy. It is the here and now and recent possible offences that are a potential concern.

How many MPs would we have if they all had to be squeaky clean?

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:19 PM

Tunesmith, there's not much I don't know about Sunni Muslims, as I've been married to one for donkey's years, and have an entire family (over sixty people) of Muslim in-laws.
Not one of your three examples are part of his beliefs. We have two lovely, married gay men as friends. I am certainly NOT see by my husband as worthy of fewer rights then a man. And he wouldn't wish to kill anyone for any reason.
I think you yourself are party to these ill-informed and prejudiced views and are trying to justify them in your support of the arrested chap.
The way forward is civilised discussion and mutual respect with an aim to initiate change where necessary. Not incitement to hatred or racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:32 PM

Sen - his most recent alias...???

probably named in honour of his favourite iconic British traditionally racist jam...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:39 PM

Hahaha pfr, the MIGs! Pathetic yobbo football hooligans. Brains the size of a pea.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:40 PM

Senoufou, Richard Dawkins would say that your wife is "cherry picking" from the Koran, and, of course, she is...but other British Muslims wouldn't"cherry pick", so what about them? What about the ones who would turn a blind eye to the persecution of gays, and think women are inferior beings.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 18 - 03:48 PM

I do apologise Tunesmith, as I didn't make it clear. I assumed that everyone on here knew I'm quite an elderly lady with an African Muslim husband.

Of course there are fundamentalist Muslims. As there are similar of almost every religion known to man. And extremists of any sort are annoying and potentially problematic. But I don't believe the way to influence them and help them to take a more moderate point of view is to insult, declaim against them and incite everyone to verbally attack them (or worse)

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:01 PM

Well, I'm quite elderly too! But, studies have shown that something like 20% of Muslims have - what you call "fundamentalist" beliefs - and that is a hell of a lot of people.
   But, to say that the UK isn't facing a problem with Muslims who don't believe in a lot of basic Western values, shows a definite " head in the sand" mentality.
The UK has accommodated so many different cultures/ethnic/religious groups over the years, but it wouldn't be unfair to say the Islam has been/is the most difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: bobad
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:06 PM

Tawhidi's critics have dubbed him "Australia's fake sheikh

So what, because he doesn't advocate those items outlined by Tunesmith above.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:17 PM

He has been arrested whilst he is still under a suspended sentence. Therefore he has to serve that sentence. What part of this is so hard to understand. Having a sentence suspended is a privilege, not a right. He is in prison for contempt of court, having used a camera inside Canterbury Crown Court. He was found guilty of, and sentenced for this in 2017. The only thing I find difficult to understand is why the judge in that case suspended teh sentence in the first place. He was bang to rights.

The moral is, if you are fortunate enough to have your sentence suspended, and have half a brain, you keep your head down for 2 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:19 PM

Tunesmith, I think that would be unfair, Christianity has been by far the most difficult to accomodate. It totally supplanted and extinguished the indigenous religions and cultures.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:20 PM

I'm wondering what 'problems' even fundamentalist Shiite Muslims in the UK are actually causing us Tunesmith. Wearing hijab/burka? Adherence to fasting? Attitudes to their own womenfolk? Wanting access to halal food? Building mosques in which to worship? None of these things bother me particularly.

I can obviously see why we're extremely concerned about terrorism and Al Qaeda adherents lurking in our midst, plotting suicide bombing and so on. But I imagine those are a very tiny minority.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:21 PM

So what percentage of Christians hold fundamentalist beliefs? In the UK its not as high as in the USA or Australia, but its not zero.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:24 PM

Sen, you know better than me, but it seems to me that Shia muslims actually cause very little trouble. All of the terrorist organisations operating in the west are Sunni. ISIS and al-Qaeda in particular.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:33 PM

You're right of course David, I meant to put Sunni. But I hasten to add my husband isn't a member of ISIS! :)

One of the things I'm proud of with regard to our country is our respect for people's beliefs. It's criminal actions that incur the penalty of the Law, not what someone believes. We don't have the Thought Police here. However, in the long-ago past, people have been burnt at the stake simply for heresy or the 'wrong' beliefs, and that was perpetrated by Christians. Over time, extreme viewpoints can modify and evolve, if dealt with sensitively and with respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:36 PM

Dave Carter said: "Tunesmith, I think that would be unfair, Christianity has been by far the most difficult to accomodate. It totally supplanted and extinguished the indigenous religions and cultures"

But, not in the UK! However, the point you make is valid. When Christians have ventured in to other cultures they have often behaved very badly, to say the least, and expected other cultures to adapt to the invaders cultural/religious beliefs. And, of course, a lot of Brits are fearful that Muslims in the UK think along those same lines, today.

My main hope for UK Muslims is that time will solve any integration problems but Muslims must work hard at showing that they want to be a real part of British society.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 18 - 04:49 PM

I agree with you there Tunesmith, there must be willingness on both sides to reach a satisfactory resolution to any serious clashes of culture or practices. But 'British society' incorporates many religions and cultures. There isn't a standard pattern of living which we all adhere to. We're truly multicultural in all its variety and that's what I personally like about living here.

I sometimes wonder if there's any other country where all races, creeds, origins, cultures etc re so kindly accepted and tolerated as they are in UK. That's why people like 'Tommy Robinson' (or whatever he calls himself nowadays), must be reined in, and hate speech, racism, incitement to violence against ethnic groups etc must be firmly dealt with.
But his arrest is NOT about his views, it's due to the existence of a previous suspended sentence, contravened by contempt of court and breach of the Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 May 18 - 06:20 PM

Since he had a three month suspended sentence, but has been sentenced to thirteen months rather than just having the suspended sentence enforced I assume he must have been found guilty of some quite serious additional offences to cause that increased term.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 May 18 - 07:55 PM

"Muslims must work hard at showing that they want to be a real part of British society."
THIS HAS NOT ALTERED ONE IOTA IN THE LAST HALF DOZEN YEARS
Muslims are overwhelmingly the most law-abiding and industrious community in Britain though it would be understandable if they reacted with hostility to racict garbage such as that pumped out by criminals like Tommy Robinson
Please don's start blaming the victims for the behaviour of this piece of scum - just read up on the organisations he has been a member of and has helped to set up - th BNP for Christ's sake
Whaty are people supporting this vicious criminal - has Britain really sunk this low
I can remember when people like his crowd couldn't demonstrate on the streets without police protection
MEET TOMMY ROBINSON
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 May 18 - 02:26 AM

Yes Tunesmith, it did in the UK. From the 3rd century onwards. That and a ruthless colonial power.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 May 18 - 02:27 AM

McGrath, do you have a reference for this 13 months? Are you sure it is not just a typo?

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 May 18 - 02:29 AM

Robinson and neo-nazi scum like him would be the first to end free speech given the opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 02:31 AM

TOMMY ROBINSON and ASSOCIATES

TOMMY ROBINSON, WHOSE online posts were read by the London mosque attacker, was recently banned from Twitter for breaching its “hateful conduct policies,” but he remains on Facebook and YouTube, where he reaches a combined audience of more than 900,000 people. Robinson rose to prominence as the leader of a group called the English Defence League, a far-right organization that said it was concerned about “how non-Muslims are being marginalized” in British society.
In 2013, Robinson stepped down as the English Defence League’s leader, saying that he was concerned about the “dangers of far-right extremism.” However, he has since continued to campaign on the same issues as a solo operator. His Twitter page, before it was suspended, offered a steady stream of posts that presented Muslims and Islam as existential threats to British and European society.
Rowley, the U.K.’s counterterrorism police chief, said Robinson was guilty of spreading “dangerous disinformation and propaganda” and claimed he was the right-wing equivalent of a British Islamist preacher named Anjem Choudary, who was jailed in 2016 for encouraging support for ISIS. During his February speech in London, Rowley said that Robinson was using his platform to “attack the whole religion of Islam by conflating acts of terrorism with the faith.”

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 May 18 - 03:00 AM

I wonder if Mr 'Robinson' would object if he fell terribly ill and the paramedics and A&E doctor turned out to be Muslims? Or his dentist (like ours) had a dental nurse who wore the hijab? Or he needed the Police, having been robbed, and one of the officers who turned up was a Muslim?

My sister, before she retired, was a hospital doctor in Scotland, and half her team were Muslims. Her Registrar was Egyptian for example. They worked incredibly hard and were absolutely dedicated to the Team.

This is why it's so misguided of these haters to lump an entire demographic group together and label them.
Basically, the word for that is IGNORANCE.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 May 18 - 03:04 AM

Robinson is one of the leaders of a terrorist organization and getting his followers (like the Finsbury Park killer) to commit murder on his behest. People get locked up for that, though in his case for a trivially short time - an Asian Muslim would have been looking at 20 years for the same crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 May 18 - 03:06 AM

Just to take minor issue with JIm's post of 07:55PM (why can't this thing work on UT?) I would say that South Asians and East Asians are the most industrious and law abiding communities, irrespective of their religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 May 18 - 03:20 AM

There are bad citizens among any group, race or religion. But most Muslims aren't arrested for being drunk and disorderly, their children are generally well-behaved in school, and while 60% of the HM Prison population is 'Christian' (I doubt whether these 'Christian' inmates attend church though!) the proportion for Muslims is 8%. However, this represents a higher proportion than their percentage of the general population, and has risen from 4% over the last two years.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 May 18 - 03:38 AM

Chilling photograph half way down the article linked to by Jim, taken in London, not Berlin, and a reminder that there were dark forces in Britain, and those forces have not gone away.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 05:35 AM

"But his arrest is NOT about his views, it's due to the existence of a previous suspended sentence, contravened by contempt of court and breach of the Peace."
Yes, with reservations!
If I understand correctly Robinson has attended several grooming trials as a "reporter"
There is a need for the public to know about these grooming cases.
HOWEVER there is also a need to ensure the trial of so many defendants can proceed without becoming jeopardised by breaching the extremely severe reporting restrictions that apply when a case involves child sexual exploitation.

"There have been three separate trials in progress in Leeds of more than 20 individuals accused of being part of a grooming gang. Not all of the trials have yet concluded. As with other grooming gang trials, the prosecution has invested a great deal of effort in securing justice for the alleged victims; part of that effort is to ensure that outside interference is not allowed to compromise or even collapse the trial."

"Former prosecutor Nazir Afzal set out the potential pitfalls of breaking reporting restrictions: “We nearly lost the so called Rochdale grooming case (#ThreeGirls) cos of a far right communication … Their lawyers applied at their trial that the jury had been prejudiced by Far Right We had to fight to persuade Court to allow trial to continue Those criminals came close to being freed & victims close to getting NO justice Jury must decide on EVIDENCE, not on your OPINION”

That he should be punished for potentially collapsing a trial is beyond dispute.

That he is being silenced for highlighting grooming gangs that are a minority of a particular demographic is another issue. This latter issue is a topic both police and government would prefer to sweep under the carpet and pretend it does not exist. It is a totally unacceptable. The speed with which he was arrested and sentenced says a lot. None of it particularly complimentary to our police, government and judiciary. Different people will draw different conclusions. The so called breach of the peace he was accused of smacks of a trumped up charge to me.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grooming-gangs-uk-britain-newcastle-serious-case-review-operation-sanctuary-shelter-muslim-asian-a8225106.html

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 05:54 AM

"There is a need for the public to know about these grooming cases."
Not from a fascist thug
Severe reporting restrictions are to protect communities from Neo-Nazis like Robinson or from his organisations turning them into hate platforms
Britain has enough problems with race as it is
He is being silenced because he is a Neo-Nazi - his party links make it quite plain what he is.
The grooming gangs got all the exposure they needed to get - every British newspaper covered the trials fully
Time to start locking these hate peddler by-products of Brexit before they get out of hand
You have been given this piece of scum's track record -why are you defending him?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 May 18 - 06:04 AM

If one wants to see child grooming gangs of any race or persuasion brought to justice (and who wouldn't?) surely it's sensible NOT to attempt to interfere with due process of Law, so that their trials can proceed without hindrance?

As the Judge said, one can't have anybody intimidating defendants or witnesses, or the defending lawyers could help their clients wriggle out of the trial because of the pressures of intimidation.
Standing around trying to film the defendants, creating a fracas with amateur publicity etc isn't going to help.

And if the clot doesn't like his 13 month sentence, he can presumably appeal (good luck with that though).

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 06:19 AM

"There is a need for the public to know about these grooming cases."
Not from a fascist thug
Wrong!!!!!!

Anyone can report, providing they adhere to the guidelines.
We even put up with your anglophobia.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 06:30 AM

"Anyone can report, providing they adhere to the guidelines."
Anybody reporting such matters should do so responsibly
I asked why you are defending a neo-Nazi thug
Please don't call ne an anglophobe (unless you are deliberately attempting to close this thread - which I have no objection to)
The only comment I have ever made about the British people is the disturbing rise in racism (which id fully documented)
To suggest that criticising the British establishment is anti British is to identify the British people with the worst examples of behaviour of its politicians
I have never done that - you just have
If you can't learn to debate politely your presence is as unwelcome as the thug you are defending, Tommy Robinson
Pack it in now please
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 06:46 AM

If you believe this man is not a fascist thug or has been arrested unfairly have the courage to say so so we can discuss it on that basis instead of revverting to your usual name-calling
That is what debate should be about
You should not be using the forum to promote racists like Robinson
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 06:52 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOzq_zKjjA

I trust the prison officers will ensure his safety while jailed.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 06:58 AM

https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-free-tommy-robinson

341000 signed and rising.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 May 18 - 07:07 AM

I can't believe that some of you are on here defending this creep. He is guilty of contempt of court, you are not allowed to film or take photographs in court for a good reason. Prison is the right place for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 07:13 AM

you are not allowed to film or take photographs in court for a good reason.

He was outside the court.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 07:33 AM

Interesting that the BBC used a helicopter to film the house of Cliff Richards being searched on an unsubstantiated claim of child abuse and there is a virtual black out on grooming gangs. Also a news blackout on the MSM about Robinson.
This is by no means over.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 07:35 AM

"He was outside the court."
He has a history of inciting racist hatred
If the police and court decided he was at risk of doing so again - I accept that - so should you
If I suggested that the police or the corts needed the assistance of a Neo Nazi to ensure people got the information the needed you would call me anti-British and you would be quite entitled to do so - that is exactly what you are suggesting
As critical as I may be of the establishment, I Believe that Britain's history of democracy and moderation acts as a check and balance to ensure our access to information to ensure this information will never again be dpendent of pro-Nazi scum like Rothermere, or actual neo-Nazis like Robinson - you obviously don't share that view
"341000 signed and rising."
I find that very depressing - you obviously find it exhilerating
Why are you putting up links from International neo-Nazi orhanisations
Now you really are using this forum as a hate site
If you continue to do so I will ask fro this thread to be closed and for you to be removed from this forum
We really don't need Nazi supporters
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 07:49 AM

Jimmie I put up with your rabid rubbish. don't tell me what I can or cannot post.I am surprised you request a thread be closed. You normally accomplish it with your own stupidity
Now 346000

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 May 18 - 08:09 AM

What are their addresses. Decent people need to know if neo-nazis living next door.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 08:17 AM

"Jimmie I put up with your rabid rubbish. "
Keep this up please Iains, not only does it get added to my list of your abuse but is will ensure that this thread gets closed, as it should
You have my full blessing
"https://www.change."
THIS FORUM SHOULD NOT BE USED TO CIRCULATE A NEO-NAZI PETITION
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 08:31 AM

A petition to Parliament only requires 10000 signatures. The petition mentioned above hopes to raise 500,000.
The issues having them concerned go beyond the simple arrest and imprisonment of Robinson. It is about freedom of the press and due process. Banning reporting of his arrest and quelling any discussion in the MSM reeks of a hidden agenda.
The following youtube clip alludes to this idea and takes the discussion far wider than Robinson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qPy051z_PE
It is a speech by Farage to the mainstream media. I recommend you listen and form your own opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 08:34 AM

I have requested that this thread be closed before it becoems a recruiting site for neo Nazi =organisations
Happy to see the confirmation that Farage is linked to the extreme right - not that we didn't know it already
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 May 18 - 08:52 AM

Seen news pictures - Neo-Nazi vermin are defiling the English Flag. They make me sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 May 18 - 09:08 AM

Sub judice rules

https://www.out-law.com/page-9742

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 28 May 18 - 10:19 AM

I have come to the conclusion that this case is very disturbing. As another poster pointed out, the petition to have Tommy released has reached 350,000 plus and that is in spite of a virtual media blackout with its refusal to cover Tommy's arrest.
I watched the BBC TV this morning and - unless I missed it - there was no mention of Tommy, and later I looked through all the daily newspapers, and again I couldn't see any reference to Tommy.
The attitude of the media and the Establishment ( Government, Courts, Police etc ) smacks of a totalitarian state, and is so much more disturbing than Tommy's controversial speeches.
And, again, I urge people to watch some of Tommy's videos. He doesn't come across at all as this fascist nutter as painted by certain people on this thread.
A society should be very alarmed when free speech is gagged like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 28 May 18 - 10:43 AM

Well, it appears that there is a real gagging order on covering Tommy's arrest and imprisonment by the press/media.
So the most well known critic of Islam in this country has been silenced, and even his silence has been silenced. If that is not worrying then I don't know what is.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 11:15 AM

"most well known critic of Islam "
What's wrong with that
Ttunesmith
How would you feel if he was the most well-known critic of Christianity or Judaism our Buddhism
Would he be a hero then?
Why should we be worried ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 May 18 - 11:25 AM

Iains, he was inside Canterbury Crown Court in 2017. That is what he is in prison for.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 28 May 18 - 11:29 AM

No, he's in prison because the Establishment want to shut him put.
"First they came for the critics of Islam, and I said nothing..."

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 May 18 - 11:29 AM

I agree with Jim here, this thread should be closed as people are openly advocating signing a petition in favour of a fascist. If it was a petition in favour of Anjem Choudary, and no doubt there have been such, I would say the same thing, and I believe that the mods would close the thread down very quickly.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 28 May 18 - 11:36 AM

Oh dear! I hope our US friends value freedom of speech more than the UK Establishment.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 May 18 - 11:36 AM

Sop every time someone who is convicted is rearrested for breach of conditions for a suspended sentence the media should report it? Robinson is a nasty nobody who is not worthy of ANY media attention. That is all there is to it.   Only neo nazis and want to make an issue about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 11:54 AM

""First they came for the critics of Islam,"
You need to get your act together Tunesmith
Islam is a religion annd no more dangerous than any other religion (when it comes to the rape of Children, Christianity has proved itself far more dangerous
If you are going to use this thread as a platform for hate, be clear who you are hating
I have asked that this thread be closed down - perhaps if we start insulting each other that might help!!
This really has become intolerable
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 May 18 - 11:59 AM

And my wife and I have just come back from a lovely wooded walk in a little nature reserve called Bramley Bank, south of Croydon!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 28 May 18 - 12:02 PM

What is intolerable is the British Establishment gagging the main critic of Islam in the UK, and then preventing the media from reporting on the event.
Jim, can't you see how dangerous that is!
You might not like what Robinson is saying but the alternative is far more worrying.
I'll be interested to see how this plays out in the the US media.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 28 May 18 - 12:04 PM

Has it occurred to anyone that those who do sign the petition will make themselves visible to the security services …. this is the 21 century
I don't think anyone on Mudcat will sign it but the fact that it has been drawn to our attention here will show what kind of support this type of thing has.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 28 May 18 - 12:13 PM

Kenny B, I haven't signed the petition -even though I think Robinson was "fitted up" -for the very reasons you said...which should have us all worried.
Beware the knock on the door!

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: bobad
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:09 PM

when it comes to the rape of Children, Christianity has proved itself far more dangerous

Nope.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:14 PM

Not only is it 40 years since my generation of well [ state school ] educated teenagers
were actively supporting the newly emerging popular progressive
Rock Against Racism / Anti-n@zi League movement...

But Tommy Robinson hadn't even been born yet...

How things have changed for the worse again in just one generation...???

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:25 PM

Yup
Go count the number of victims of Clerical abuse in Ireland - they haven't got round to Britain yet
All religions have a record of persecution and violence
"Jim, can't you see how dangerous that is!"
Islanm is a religion you stupid little man
Muslims are among the most well behaved and industrious of any group of non-indigenous people in Britain
All sections of the population have their misfits
The largest group of sexual groomers in Britain are from the indigenous population and the most common form of grooming is on-line
I'm far more concerned about the danger of FASCIST THUG YOU ARE DEFENDING AND HIS MATES - they are the most likely to carry out violent attacks and their victims are largely the Muslims you are choosing to denigrate
Why are you making this fascist piece of dirt a hero ?
What's wrong with you people?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:25 PM

"He doesn't come across at all as this fascist nutter..."

Well his type wouldn't, would they, in propaganda recruiting videos aimed at respectable middle of the road 'conservatives'...


btw... just watched the 1992 movie "Romper Stomper"* again for the 1st or 2nd time since it was released in Cinemas...

Of course these days 'normal Daily Mail' readers would be shocked
if the likes of Tommy still had sw@stika tattoos on their foreheads...


[*BBC are showing the provocative present day TV series sequel...]

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:28 PM

And wy are you supporting the very trpe of fanatic that sent six million Jews to their deaths Bobad ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:37 PM

We can only judge Tommy from what he says.
He has distanced himself from the EDL when he considered that they were not rooting fascists and the racists.
He always talks facts and says that he has black friends and relatives AND Muslim friends. He has said time and time again that he has no problems with your average law abiding Muslims.
I can't believe his critics on this thread have ever watched any of his interviews.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:47 PM

I watched a documentary a year or 2 or 3 ago..

When he was talking with a muslim organization and supposedly becoming more 'enlightened'...

I'd have more trust in his sincerity if he just voluntarily resigned from the public arena
to get on with his life in quiet obscurity...

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:51 PM

"He has distanced himself from the EDL when he considered that they were not rooting fascists and the racists."
And set up another organisation with exactly the same policies
He's a fucking racist and an antisemite

Tommy Robinson's trip to Poland
"He said he had an “amazing time” despite claims that chants calling for a “Jew free” country were heard at the march.
Sikh youth group associating with far-right EDL founder Tommy Robinson
EDL founder Tommy Robinson to give talk at top US university
Tommy Robinson wrongly declares a 'jihadi incident' at the scene
Ukip leadership hopeful opens door to Tommy Robinson joining party
“I have had an amazing time with polish patriots marching against Islam . Polish pride is something else,” he wrote on Twitter.
There were burning red flares, speeches and attendees also listened to Polish hip hop.
One of the banners from the march reportedly read: “White Europe of brotherly nations” and another said: “Pray for Islamic Holocaust.”
One demonstrator who was interviewed by state television TVP was asked why he had attended the event and he replied to “remove Jews from power,” the Jewish Chronicle reported.
Far-right figures from across the continent, including Sweden, Germany, Italy and Slovakia, attended the event

Why are you people supporting fascism and why are the mods allowing you to use Mudcat as a hate platform?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Iains
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:55 PM

It is too early to say where this will end, but the fallacy of categorizing all opposition to mass immigration as “far right,” as the European press has unanimously done, is evidently intended to rule debate over immigration out of bounds. But the truth may be worse than that: perhaps being labeled “far right” can be a precursor to groundless arrest, secret trial and incarceration, and a ban on reporting. As has been noted above, signing the petition would potentially draw the attention of the police/security service/special branch.
    I do not think many realise just how comprehensive these records are.
For example: by 1973 the drugs intelligence unit held 250k known and suspected drug criminals.
In 1979 it was estimated36 million names were held.
Now social security numbers can be linked to car ownership, passports and driving licenses and data retrieval even for the bobby on the beat is almost instantaneous. Couple that with the guaranteed knowledge that anyone joining a political party, demonstration, sit-in, protest or any other activity regarded as anti government will automatically give you a special tag on the government database that holds your records. None of this has been debated in the public arena and the growth of surveillance is insidious and unrelenting.
In time of political instability a press of a button will select those for the gulags. This really is what the Robinson case is all about, no matter how you wish to follow the MSM spin.


https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/home_office_mega_database/

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: bobad
Date: 28 May 18 - 02:00 PM

And wy are you supporting the very trpe of fanatic that sent six million Jews to their deaths Bobad ?

I'm not supporting anyone.....you're becoming hysterical again, calm down.

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 18 - 02:02 PM

"I'm not supporting anyone."
TYes you are Bobad
"mam Tawhidi
?Verified account @Imamofpeace

I’m a practicing Muslim and a third-generation Imam. I’ve known Tommy Robinson for 6 years and he has shown me nothing other than absolute respect and kindness, despite the fact that he completely rejects Islam."
Or is this faked
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tommy Robinson's Arrest
From: Tunesmith
Date: 28 May 18 - 02:02 PM

All I'm saying is that we have to give Robinson a platform. If he is not calling for violence, then he is not breaking the law. And, interestingly, the authorities would have been down on him like a ton of bricks if they had any proof of him advocating violence.

All voices must be heard.

And, again Jim, let's have your answers to the following questions.
1) Do you believe homosexuals should be persecuted?
2) Do you believe a person should be killed for leaving their faith?
3) Do you believe that women should have lesser rights than men?

Well, Jim, what are your answers?

Somebody asked why this thread was closed. I'm not the one who closed the thread (I always leave a note of explanation when I close a thread, but other moderators don't believe that's a good idea). This is how I responded to the query:
Well, the main reason that mods close threads, is that the thread has taken on a nasty tone - usually, that's when the argument gets circular and the "usual suspects" have taken over a thread, and everybody else has left. We close threads to keep the peace, not to punish anybody. We don't single out any "guilty parties" - if the tone gets bad, we close the thread. If people want threads to stay alive, then they're going to have to find a way to converse in peace - without moderator intervention.
I don't like [the conduct of certain individuals] in the BS section, but I can't see how public censure would do any good.
-Joe Offer-