BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 09:54 AM

The liberals seem to have only read part of the story before the gnashing of teeth and wailing and automatically blaming Trump

Iains, you must have a moldy ball of straw in place of a heart, for your reading or "understanding" of this huge problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 11:18 AM

This closed empty Walmart, with blacked out windows does not strike me as any kind of facility to care for children and babies emotionally, medically, feed, cleanse, clothe, and teach or exercise children. I do not know if there are armed guards.

Assuming these things are even done, how much does that cost?
I would be surprised if Donald would spend a dime.

This policy of automaticly seizing children when parents legally apply for rescue ASYLUM from murderous conditions (for Iains info) is from Trump, not Bush, not Obama.

I have not even mentioned the runaways, unaccounted for, the lost or trafficed kids.


btw I just heard Trump say he is considering pardoning Mohamed Ali.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 11:31 AM

Think about the Walmart bathrooms serving 1,500, ya can't wash in portable potties

I bet they are not letting US Senators into the "facility' because of the smell alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 01:51 PM

I'm not American, but I must say I found the sight of the US Senator being casually barred entry to the facility like an underage kid trying to get into a nightclub disturbing. I would have liked to see at least some nervous fidgeting, and hushed phone calls going back and forth, and someone higher up on the totem pole coming out and blustering and BS-ing. I mean, even Michael Moore at Wal-Mart got better treatment .........

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 02:16 PM

I understand that many of the children detained as illegal immigrants had no parents with them at the time of their arrest. The poor souls just crossed the border unattended, so it might be incorrect to imagine they've been 'torn from their parents' in any way. This has happened across Europe too, and what to do with them is a difficult problem.

But the environment at the centres should be suitable for children, and include some form of play, fresh air, comfortable sleeping arrangements and assessment by medical staff etc. They are NOT criminals at such a young age, and could become victims of paedophiles/illegal workforce etc if 'farmed out to 'volunteer carers'. Regular inspection is vital.

It all sounds like Oliver Twist, and the centre resembles the blooming Workhouses set up in England in the nineteenth century! Disgraceful, and lacking in any basic compassion for their physical and mental welfare.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 03:29 PM

No - the issue is that they ARE being torn from their parents - until trump took over, only 'unaccompanied minors' were being put in these facilities, which was understandable; now 'accompanied' minors are being taken from their mothers and added to the mix, hence, the over-crowding.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 03:32 PM

Good grief, that's horrendous then! It could damage them for life psychologically! I can hardly bear to think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 03:59 PM

And that is what the "fake/liberal/snowflake" commentators are pointing out - that the younger children are potentially being done permanent damage. But - no one seems to care much, really, as far as I can see.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 04:48 PM

If parents are arrested, irregardless of the crime, the children are not arrested with them and put in the same jail. They are put in a care facility.
The US has a problem with incarceration. They have too many in jail per head ofpopulation compared to all other civilised countries.
   The real issue here is that the facilities for dealing with children are insufficient, inadequate and quite likely poorly supervised. That this situation may be exacerbated by regarding illegal aliens as criminals simply adds to what was an ongoing problem going back some years, certainly before this administration took office.
The real need for protest is that these ongoing problems have not been addressed.

Let us be honest there are few honest contributors here. Senoufou stands out as one shining example. The rest simply want to denigrate the president and could not give a sh*t about the children.
What sort of people does that make you?

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 05:01 PM

Well ... that was weird ...........

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: pdq
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 06:24 PM

I looked up the term 'toddler' and the consensus is that it applies to a child between 1 and 3 years old. One that usually walk in an un-steady manner or 'toddles'.

The thread titles suggest that such kids are held in abandoned dog kernels just to teach their parents a lesson.

This claim is complete crap yet the moderators let it slide. Muscat has a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 06:49 PM

Do you think it's maybe just possible that the mods just missed that misuse of the term toddler, and not part of some Deep State lizard-people conspiracy?

I didn't notice it. Now that you bring it up, I agree that it is misleading; they are no doubt beyond the toddler stage; the youngest seem to be at least five-years-old And, no, they aren't being taken away to punish the parents - it seems to be so that the word will spread that if you cross the border illegally and then claim refugee status, your children will be taken from you.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:12 PM

"so it might be incorrect to imagine they've been 'torn from their parents' in any way."

IT IS NOT INCORRECT

"If parents are arrested, irregardless of the crime, the children are not arrested with them and put in the same jail. They are put in a care facility."

THESE PARENTS WHOSE KIDS ARE SEIZED ARE NOT ARRESTED FOR ANY CRIME. THEY ARE LEGALLY APPLYING FOR ASYLUM BY US LAW.




This is what it is   and is not designed, created or weaponized as a partisan weapon.

I did create a partisan 'Trump is a one trick pony' thread to let folks know its worse than they think.

By some responses here it sounds like you guys are having a hard time realizing its worse than they think.
No , the Children's Walmart is not a Hitler death camp barracks. Yes , some kids will be understandably upset. I've been to some old Rock concerts that had worse conditions. The Poor Peoples March was pretty miserable too.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:15 PM

Hold your horses.
It's all very well to criticize the statement.
And I notice that no names are named in the criticism.

Having said that,
United States Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon,
repeatedly interviewed by more than one television network
since the story broke four days ago,
has stuck by his statements and his opinions.

Merkley repeats the phrase
"how you would construct a dog kennel"
both on CNN and on CBS on-camera interviews.

He saw a "tiny, tiny" little boy whose age he estimated
between four and five years.

Does Mudcat have a problem if, in fact,
the thread title reflects what the main speaker in the journalistic report
actually said?

Or is the problem not limited to Mudcat?
Stop and look at this carefully, please, if you may.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:17 PM

And thanks a lot, Iains,
for lumping me in with "what sort of people" ...
that will make me think twice
about speaking up to defend you with a post of my own.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 03:59 AM

Keberoxu. Your comments on this thread have been objective. That makes you an honest contributor. As on most threads that puts you in the minority that can hold their heads high.
I apologise if that distinction was not obvious enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 10:57 AM

For clarity I should add that comment of mine of lumping people together is only in the context of threads political where affiliations often appear dictate responses rather than facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 01:53 PM

I can and will disagree with; spin, non facts and answers to different questions. That is objectivity.

This federal child abuse issue is the direct consequence of a ZERO TOLERENCE policy.

Zero tolerance always creates chaos. Zero tolerance can even lead to trade wars and trade wars lead to shooting wars and depressions.

Hold your head high if you support the Senators who are voting to Abolish this Trump zero tolerence policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 04:42 AM

There seems to have been a lot of political grandstanding and inaccuracies publicized concerning the allegations of caged children.
The Washington post article below makes a partial attempt to give a dispassionate account-but in my view fails.
Judge for yourselves.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/06/does-the-u-s-keep-immigrant-children-in-cages/?noredirect=on&utm_


https://qz.com/1291470/photos-immigrant-children-detained-at-the-placement-center-in-2014/

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 05:00 AM

JUDGE FOR YOURSELF
MORE
IN MORE DETAIL
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 05:07 AM

Maybe they are preparing children for adulthood in TRUMP'S AMERICA
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 05:09 AM

Jim as your links show, many of the photos are from 2014. This suggests to me, that if there is a true problem and it is not hype, then both sides of the political divide are equally guilty. That nasty man Obama also incarcerated children in cages.
You may well be able to argue that the sitting president has added to the problem by adhering to the law, but the deficiencies in the present system go back years before Trump even decided to run for the Presidency.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 05:40 AM

And the reports of the abuse of refugees is current
Obama inherited a legacy of anbusive and repressive America; he did his best to bring a shadow of decency to his country was time and again frustrated from doing so
He was by no means perfect but at least he attempted to humanise his country - the man you are flying the flag for has dragged it back to it's degenerate, bullying worst
In doing so. he has re-awakened scum like the Klan and now is busy destabalising the planet with his diplomatic skills while at the same time doing his bit to turn it into an ECOLOGICAL NIGHTMARE
What on earth do you think this man has to have said in his favour?
Maybe we should ask some WOMEN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 06:07 AM

What on earth do you think this man has to have said in his favour?

Hows about a nuclear free North Korea?

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 06:14 AM

THIS WAS ONE OF OBAMSA'S LAST STATEMENTS ON THE REFUGEE SITUATION
THIS IS TRUMP'S ATTITUDE TO DATE
As you say, judge for yourself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 12:06 PM

"Hows about a nuclear free North Korea?"
Leaving two aggressive powers - America and I*****l with the facility to bomb their enemies "back into the Stone Age" (to quote an American General?
I detest nuclear weapons and spent years marching against their proliferation - the argument was that as so many countries had them they acted as a deterrent
The only nation ever to use them against civilians is th good o0' U.S. of A., so am I happy that they (especially with a madman who boasts his button is bigger than everybody elses in charge) keep them - are you?
I have no time for the leaders of North Korea but, having seen their people bombed into the level of LIVING IN CAVES by the U.S., the Korean's would be insane to leave themselves defenceless from such a maniac
From the look of what happened at the meeting, nothing has changed anyway
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 09:13 PM

How aboutisms aside...

It is chilling how ICE tells mothers they are taking the children for a bath. Then the children are siezed as parents sometimes hear the screaming of the children being held in an adjacent room.
Who does/did that Jim?

Other times parents are told to leave briefly for a photo and they return to the holding room with no children to be foun.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 02:03 AM

"How aboutisms aside..."

I take your point Donuel - isn't this 'chillingly' reminiscent of the new arrivals at the "Arbeit macht frei" camps being sent to the "showers" once it was decided who was fit to work and who was not?
Surely, there has to be a point when humanity asks itself what has happened to its humanity.
Dubya?- Obama? - Trump? - we are all part of allowing this to happen - it's being done by our elected representatives in our name
A bit smug, but it wouldn't have happened in my time without a massive street demonstration.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 04:08 AM

I felt exactly the same Jim when I heard about these 'centres'. Horribly similar to blooming Auschwitz! All they need is a gas-chamber.

I see a similar mindset when I read about the Africans in terribly unsea-worthy inflatable boats trying to reach Italy. Some people couldn't care less if they all drown (and hundreds have), and there have been objections to the charity rescue ships who (and God bless them!) save their lives at the very point of drowning and give them food and water.

These are human beings, suffering and frightened. No matter what one feels about immigration and all that, how could anyone take a child away from its parents or indifferently let men, women and children sink under the sea?
Unimaginable cruelty and callousness.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 04:15 AM

Getting ahead of yourself there Iains. North Korea has committed to working towards complete denuclearisation. Just as all of the existing nuclear powers which are signatories of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty are committed to working towards "a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control" under article VI of that treaty. But they have been committed to that since 1968. And they havn't exactly got very far.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 05:33 AM

"objections to the charity rescue ships who (and God bless them!) save their lives at the very point of drowning"
The Spanish have provided a shining example of humanity in accepting the refugees turned away by Italy and Malta
An example to be followed by all instead of this inhuman back-turning
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 06:33 AM

David Carter there are some go through life with a glass half full, others with a glass half empty. Which is the most beneficial?

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 07:41 AM

Mine will be half full when there are no nuclear weapons at all. It would be completely full when there were no military forces at all. North Korea represents a tiny dribble, compared with the vast nuclear arsenals of other countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:05 PM

The Trump solution to taking kids to the point of overcrowding is to erect a tent city in Texas and truck the overflow of kids there.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 06:55 AM

The private prison for kids is humane afterall. They allowed parents to Skype their 8 month old.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 03:38 PM

More humanity is introduced. Brothers and sisters are allowed a quick visit once a week. Of the 16,000 kids being held/detained only 2,000 are the ones physically seperated from thier parents. Yay !

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:01 AM

Unbelievably, Sessions, backed up to some extent by Sanders, has been quoting St. Paul in support of this vile policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 12:21 PM

If the US lasts long enough, there will be public apologies and restitutions paid some day ... but who cares, that's way off in the future .....

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 03:42 PM

I'm listening right now to a report from one Dr Colleen Kraft, President of the American Academy of Pediatrics, who just visited one of these detention sites - she says she saw a number of toddlers there, some "pre-verbal" - she told a heart-breaking story of a toddler crying hysterically for her mother. None of the staff is allowed to touch these children, so no one could hug the child to comfort her. It's monstrous.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 04:02 PM

Oh Lord, that is absolutely heartbreaking meself. It amounts to mental torture. How could anyone be so cruel?

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: pdq
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:00 PM

"Some 90% of the children at the shelter arrived at the border without adults; the other 10% were separated from the adults accompanying them. Once the children arrive — usually brought by U.S. Border Patrol agents — they are greeted in the “intake” office, where they receive any urgent medical care, are assigned a case worker, and are given food, a shower, and new clothing. They are also given toiletries and lessons in hygiene — literally how to flush a toilet, brush their teeth, and operate the shower, which some of the children may have never seen in their lives.

They have limited access to telephones to call relatives, both in the U.S. and abroad. They receive therapy, both as individuals and in group sessions. They enjoy field trips to local museums, parks, and the zoo, where they can explore the city beyond the shelter. And they also have social activities, including a recent “prom” for which they dressed up.

“Cages,” these are not. What is immediately striking about the facility is the enthusiasm and care of the staff who work there. One administrator greeted the journalists on the tour: “Welcome to our home.” The children at the facility seemed genuinely happy, despite their unfortunate circumstances and the trauma of their long journey.

The real scandal is how the media have portrayed the shelters. When MSNBC’s Jacob Soboroff toured a similar facility this week in Brownsville, Texas, for example, he referredto the children there as being “incarcerated,” which is only true in the same sense that hospital patients, too, are not permitted to leave, for their safety. (One official who had seen Soboroff’s televised report accused him of “flat-out lying” about the facility — such as, for example, reporting on a mural of Donald Trump without noting 19 other presidents were similarly depicted.)

Southwest Key has operated its facilities — 27 in total, across California, Arizona, and Texas — since 1997, when the U.S. Supreme Court decided in Flores v. Reno that unaccompanied illegal alien minors could not be held in detention facilities. This is not a new problem, even though it took Trump to make the media realize it existed."

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:31 PM

Dr Kraft interview

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 09:26 PM

For the kids who can remember a number or letter they have have a towel and beds.
But toddlers at bedtime are subjected to a cage to control bedlam at bedtime and getting lost. Grey wristbands sort out identities unless removed.

editorial remark:

If Biblical justification is all you need to justify crimes as law some of you know of the atrocities Attorney General Sessions could hail as legal. Its too sick to repeat.

George Washington wrote a letter about his disppointmwnt with some rebellious christians regarding a separation of church and state.

If a rebel christian is at the core of the justice department, the US creeps closer to a system of government that Iran is known for.

As for Trump, he knows one passage, "render unto Ceasar".

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 10:09 PM

Using the logic of Sessions, the Founding Fathers and their supporters were rebelling not only against their government, but against God. After all, God had "ordained" that they be ruled by Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:14 PM

Happy Father's Day.

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 12:52 AM

Trump himself says he hates the taking of children from their parents, but he blames the laws passed by Democrats. I think Trump is holding these children as hostages, to force the Democrats to vote to pay for his silly wall. He really seems obsessed with that wall.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 03:56 AM

Meanwhile while leftists are throwing a fit over President Trump's proposed border wall with Mexico, they couldn't care less about Turkey's new massive 764-kilometer border wall with Syria paid for with European Union funds.
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=58567

or elsewhere in Europe:
Bulgaria
Slovenia
Hungary
Macedonia
Austria
France

Of Course we all know the Great Wall of China and Hadrians Wall were merely built to entertain tourists thousands of years later, and Offa's dyke was built to enable the confiscation of bows and arrows off the wayward welsh
https://www.indy100.com/article/a-map-of-the-six-european-countries-who-have-built-a-wall-to-stop-migrants-7320271

http://theconversation.com/europes-wall-against-african-migrants-is-almost-complete-76758

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 08:18 AM

This "children in cages" obscenity appears to have hit the fan in a big way - film footage of protests in Texas. shots of the cages, Mrs Dubya comparing the conditions refugees are held as "not unlike those of American s imprisoned by the Japanese in WW1 - even Melania Trump commenting on Hummy's inhuman attitude to refugees - probably all "leftists"
When are you going to stop defending this scumbag with your "wahaboutism" Iains?

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 08:46 AM

When are you going to stop defending this scumbag with your "wahaboutism" Iains?

Put your head in the sand if you wish Jimmy. Illegal immigration is a major problem in Europe and will likely lead to the fall of Merkel.
That will put the EU in uncharted waters. Do you think those fences go up purely to waste taxpayers money or do you think perhaps there is a valid reason for their construction all over Europe.

Do you ever make any attempt to unravel the complexities of any given situation before you fire from the hip blinded to reality by your socialist bubble?

Whataboutism (also known as Whataboutery) is a form of defensive propaganda used by the loony left. Congratulations on widening your vocabulary, childish was getting a little overused, doncha think?

And an article from the Independant from 2016. Oh Look! Syrian children in cages. Where are your squeals about this shocking photograph. What about that then! 4 years ago and not even a pathetic little squeak off you. Care to explain yourself???????

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/brick-and-mortars-a7367831.html

Never mind about the real issue, let's continue to poke Trump in the eye. What sort of person does that make you.?

Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:09 AM

Perhaps a close study of the following links may explain the refugee crisis gripping many parts of the world. Some had best pray the chickens never come home to roost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change


https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the_CIA