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BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages

Donuel 04 Jun 18 - 08:57 PM
keberoxu 04 Jun 18 - 09:53 PM
Senoufou 05 Jun 18 - 03:23 AM
Donuel 05 Jun 18 - 09:17 AM
Iains 05 Jun 18 - 10:02 AM
Donuel 05 Jun 18 - 12:05 PM
keberoxu 05 Jun 18 - 02:02 PM
Iains 05 Jun 18 - 02:13 PM
Senoufou 05 Jun 18 - 02:30 PM
beardedbruce 05 Jun 18 - 02:38 PM
beardedbruce 05 Jun 18 - 02:41 PM
Iains 05 Jun 18 - 03:10 PM
Senoufou 05 Jun 18 - 03:35 PM
Donuel 05 Jun 18 - 03:57 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jun 18 - 06:26 PM
Donuel 05 Jun 18 - 06:33 PM
Donuel 06 Jun 18 - 09:15 AM
Donuel 06 Jun 18 - 09:25 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Jun 18 - 10:01 AM
Donuel 06 Jun 18 - 11:34 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Jun 18 - 11:42 AM
Iains 06 Jun 18 - 11:59 AM
Iains 06 Jun 18 - 12:37 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Jun 18 - 12:42 PM
Iains 06 Jun 18 - 12:53 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Jun 18 - 12:54 PM
Iains 06 Jun 18 - 01:04 PM
Donuel 06 Jun 18 - 01:07 PM
Iains 06 Jun 18 - 02:10 PM
keberoxu 06 Jun 18 - 03:49 PM
Donuel 07 Jun 18 - 04:53 PM
Iains 07 Jun 18 - 05:58 PM
Joe Offer 07 Jun 18 - 06:04 PM
Donuel 07 Jun 18 - 06:18 PM
Iains 07 Jun 18 - 06:40 PM
Donuel 07 Jun 18 - 06:50 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Jun 18 - 07:17 PM
Iains 07 Jun 18 - 07:21 PM
meself 07 Jun 18 - 07:39 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Jun 18 - 07:56 PM
Joe Offer 07 Jun 18 - 09:14 PM
meself 07 Jun 18 - 09:29 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Jun 18 - 02:54 AM
Joe Offer 08 Jun 18 - 03:39 AM
Iains 08 Jun 18 - 04:22 AM
Senoufou 08 Jun 18 - 04:33 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM
Iains 08 Jun 18 - 04:50 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Jun 18 - 05:19 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Jun 18 - 07:32 AM

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Subject: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 08:57 PM

US Sen.Merkley D from OR says immigrant children of people applying for asylum in the US are housed in an abandoned Texas Walmart with blacked out windows and are kept in kennel cages with no mattress and one mylar emergency blanket. There are about 1,000 children in that one facility.


This is a new Trump/Sessions policy to exact punishment and discouragement for all immigrants who legally apply for status in the US. This is not an Obama policy as Trump claims.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/senator-jeff-merkley-barred-brownsville-texas-detention-center-refugee-children-2018-06-04/

I would not be surprised at a dismantling of the Statue of Liberty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 09:53 PM

The most miserable thing is that
this surprises me not in the least.

The more you read about
the privatization of prisons/detention in the southwestern US,
the less surprising it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 03:23 AM

That is wicked and cruel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 09:17 AM

so true keb

Senofou, btw I was thinking of you being most in tune with a very special African word.


Ubuntu - the root of the word is a Zulu word. It's often described as - I am because of you or we can't be deeply human in a vacuum. And I've extended that to say that it is not only through people but through our interactions with all sentient beings on the planet that we feel our humanness.

When you live in a village, naturally, you live close to nature. And the natural world around affects the way you are. It creates extended family. It creates shared community. And it creates a sense of belonging to something. And I think that a lot of the anxiety disorders and depression that we see in the world are actually an undiagnosed homesickness for a sense of belonging.

And that sense of belonging means to each other - to what it means to be human, what it means to be a part of the natural world. And the goal is to be so present that that humanity - whatever we are met by in other people - a compassion to be with that arises. And that brings us to a deeper part of ourselves.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

RAZ: Boyd tells a story in his TED Talk that gets at this idea. And it's about a female baby elephant who passed through his family's game reserve named Elvis. And they called her Elvis because when she walked...

(SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK)

VARTY: She walked like she was doing the Elvis the Pelvis dance. She was born with very badly deformed back legs and pelvis. When I first saw her, I thought she would be dead in a matter of days. And yet, for the next five years, she returned in the winter months.

And we would be so excited to be out in The Bush and to come across this unusual trek. And we would drop whatever we were doing, and we would follow. And then we would come around the corner. And there she would be with her herd.

And then one day, we came across them at this small waterhole. It was sort of a hollow in the ground. And I watched as the matriarch drank. And then she turned in that beautiful slow motion of elephants. And she began to make her way up the steep bank. The rest of the herd turned - shoo - and began to follow.

And I watched young Elvis begin to psych herself up for the hill. She had a full go at it. And halfway up, her legs gave way and she fell backwards. She attempted it a second time. And again, halfway up, she fell backwards. And on the third attempt, an amazing thing happened. Halfway up the bank, a young teenage elephant came in behind her. And he propped his trunk underneath her, and he began to shovel her up the bank.

And it occurred to me that the rest of the herd was, in fact, looking after this young elephant. The next day, I watched again as the matriarch broke a branch. And she would put it in her mouth. And then she would break a second one and drop it on the ground. And a consensus developed between all of us who were guiding people in that area that that herd was, in fact, moving slower to accommodate that elephant.

What, all of the sudden, the herd taught me caused me to expand my definition of Ubuntu. And I believe that in the cathedral of the wild, we get to see the most beautiful parts of ourselves reflected back at us. And it is not only through other people that we get to experience our humanity but through all the creatures that live on this planet.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

RAZ: Wow. It's such a beautiful story. I mean, just thinking about how the herd was - you know, was looking out for this elephant. I mean, it just makes you think that, you know - it's like this idea is intertwined in everything around us.

VARTY: Yeah. And it doesn't always show up in, you know, ways that we would consider harmonious. You know, sometimes the Ubuntu in nature is the swiftness in which an injured animal is taken out of suffering by another animal. But there's an elegance to nature. And there is a way that everything is holding everything else.

You know, my definition of harmony is - everything is uniquely itself. And by being uniquely itself - a part of a greater unfolding. And that is what all the ancient cultures knew - you know, this intricate connection. And when you live in a relationship with that, you start to know yourself as a part of.

Within that is a kind of oneness and a felt oneness between all things.


Its partly why we are on Mudcat.


https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=481294968


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 10:02 AM

Kennel is an emotive word; more so than cage. Perhaps visual proof is required before condemnation. However for a series of governments that have encouraged extraordinary rendition and regarded water boarding as merely enhanced interrogation, then perhaps children in kennels could be regarded as a logical progression.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 12:05 PM

Trump policy is defiantly Anti Umbuntu.




Iains you are coming off as anti umbuntu too.
Is that really the true you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:02 PM

Must agree to disagree with you, Donuel, about
Iain's philosophy. You won't see this my way, which is all right.

The philosophy of the hardened cynic
tends toward negation, so of course it is polarized and polarizing.
The informed mistrust of cynicism can be off-putting emotionally.
Now I don't read every post by Iains,
because there are entire BS threads which I avoid, for my health.

But just because Iains posts opinions with the rough-coated detachment of the hardened veteran,
does that make the author of the posts
hard to the core? I sincerely doubt that.

And I don't think Iains comes off as anti-umbuntu
just because he doesn't show us any warm squishy emotion.

I will concede, however,
that it is easy for the cynicism ingrained into Iain's dispatches
to stir up defensiveness, especially in emotions.
It has not been easy for me to keep my own feelings in check
when I read a post from you, Iains,
but the exercise is good for me mentally;
and I am aware of someone beneath the surface of your dispatches
who is capable of humanity.

I will go on reading Iains' posts carefully and with interest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:13 PM

Donuel the ship of state sails on serenely at the behest of the bureaucrats. Nothing changes overnight as a new President takes office, the system has too much inertia. With this Presidency it could be argued that the reluctance of the administrative to bend to Trump's diktat verges on open rebellion.
So you must ask yourself who is putting children in cages- the administrative, or the President?


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:30 PM

But does no-one draw attention to their plight and demand that this treatment be exposed and stopped immediately? Innocent children being cruelly penned in like that is a wicked scandal.

No matter who initiated it or who 'carries out their orders', most folk with an ounce of compassion would be up in arms about such abuse!


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:38 PM

It may well still be going on ( Deep State functioning) but...


"Some liberal activists and journalists scrambled Sunday and Monday to delete tweets and social media posts incorrectly linking the Trump administration to an old photo of detained illegal-immigrant minors being held in a cage.

The 2014 shot was actually taken during the Obama administration.

The photo went viral as liberals — perhaps spurred by unrelated reports that Homeland Security “lost track of” almost 1,500 illegal-immigrant minors after they were released — mistakenly assumed the shot was taken much more recently, and rushed to criticize Trump administration “cruelty.”

SEE ALSO: Trump slams Dems for mistakenly blaming his administration for the photos of children in cages

“This is happening right now, and the only debate that matters is how we force our government to get these kids back to their families as fast as humanly possible,” former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau said on Twitter.

Mr. Favreau deleted the tweet, though not before it had been screen-captured.

Other liberal activists and journalists, such as Shaun King of Black Lives Matter, Linda Sarsour of the Women’s March, and Muslim activist Qasim Rashid still had the fake news up Monday afternoon."


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:41 PM

From the OP- clickey

"In a statement, the press secretary for the Department of Homeland Security said: "DHS follows the laws passed by Congress and processes alien children safely and humanely. Contrary to any misinformation campaign, the safety of children is paramount for DHS. I encourage Senator Merkley to work with the administration to fix the underlying loopholes that act as a pull factor for illegal immigration and place these children at risk from smugglers and human traffickers.

"At 2pm on a Friday, the Senator asked to visit a secure DHS facility over the weekend where children are present and we worked with him to provide him access. This presented obvious and serious privacy concerns – not to mention disrupting operations. He was able to visit the facility on Sunday.""


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 03:10 PM

Senoufou any publicity shining on the treatment of children in care is to be welcomed irregardless of the reason for their status. Too much, in too many places has impacted adversely the lives of these children.
Institutional abuse goes way beyond incarceration in cages, as both ongoing and past enquiries clearly show. Those running any such institutions need to be policed constantly and thoroughly. The likes of jimmy saville and thomas hamilton are two that were caught. How many others remain in the shadows?


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 03:35 PM

I couldn't agree more Iains. The adults are vulnerable enough, but the children are absolutely defenceless. Most disturbing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 03:57 PM

Keboroxu my introduction to your posts a year ago reminded me of someone in quiet stocking feet venturing forth with courage and uncertainty. Well you put on your loud shoes and are doing the walk of life with far more confidence. Your thunder is growing louder and that is a good natural harmless thing. No one gets hurt by thunder.

No apologies needed for seeing differently. You nailed the cynicism thing. In fact you see more clearly. I do not see a hardened military veteran. I see a malevolent foreign agent who has an anti western agenda and is well versed in the sins of the west in which our Constitution can in fact address in the fullness of time. Until it is proved differently I will interpret the indirect shadows I see on the cave wall.


Until someone googles the immigrant child Trump policy for themselves there is no response to the various "I think" posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 06:26 PM

There would be no problem in opening up these kind of establishments to public scrutiny and proper inspection. In the absence of that it is reasonable to suspect the worst.

Governments love to try to divert criticism to accusations about how previous administrations may have played a part in shaping things. That kind of stuff can only be of any significance after the existing injustice and maladministration has been rectified.
Until that's been done, nothing else is relevant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 06:33 PM

Yep.
The new policy against children is backfiring with his base so trump will distance and divert attention any way he can.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 09:15 AM

The UN has declared this Trump Sessions child policy a human rights violation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 09:25 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/world/americas/us-un-migrant-children-families.html

As usual trump didn't want to think his cruelty through.
The kids piled up faster than they could sort out or foster away.
Parents be damned. Children are lost


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 10:01 AM

Perhaps visual proof is required before condemnation.
MATTER OF DEGREE, I SUPPOSE
"DHS follows the laws passed by Congress and processes alien children safely and humanely. "
Hmmmmm!!!
Jim Caarroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 11:34 AM

Warning mods
the post by Jim Carrol at 10:01
IS A MALICIOUS VIRUS SITE accoeding to secure software


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 11:42 AM

Thanks for that Mod
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 11:59 AM

The photos do not look like a kennel to me.According to the text the cage walls are 18' high. The crowding and lack of exercise time is far from ideal.
But were they to let unaccompanied into the streets with limited funds and no legal way of working,what would be the outcome?
Is it a choice between incarceration or becoming street children?(and all that this entails)

It seems the media recount the more colorful side of the equation and carefully omit the potential darker side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 12:37 PM

Perhaps hatred of Trump is so deep that sense goes clean out of the window. I originally took the article at face value. However after very little digging another narrative is uncovered.
Make up your own minds.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/ice-loses-1500-children-myth-shows-media-bias/
It is by no means a problem unique to Trumps Administration. Check the date of the link below


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10916593/Americas-border-inundated-with-almost-50000-child-migrants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 12:42 PM

"The photos do not look like a kennel to me.According to the text the cage walls are 18' high. "
You obviously have never visited Battersea Dogs home
Surely you are not defending this obscenity
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 12:53 PM

What is the alternative Jim. Let them roam the streets as vagrant unaccompanied minors? Is that the solution? or do you have a cure for the problem? I am all ears.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 12:54 PM

By the way
The first article was by Jonothan S Tobin a neo-conservative Trump supporter, writing in support of the Trump regime
What else is he going to say in defence of HMV
The second article won't open but it doesn't matter unless it claims that Obama allowed children to be kept in Kennels
You are right that the problem isn't UNIQUE TO TRUMP'S AMERICA though
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 01:04 PM

The daily telegraph 22 Jun 2014
/Americas-border-inundated-with-almost-50000-child-migrants.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10916593/Americas-border-inundated-with-almost-50000-child-migrants.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 01:07 PM

Trump apologists and co conspiratorial liars will claim anything without a source as Iains did again (fake blue clicky)

As a reward for voting for Trump in 2020 he could promise that Viagra will become generic and only cost pennies per pill. There could be a sweepstakes for a date with Ivanka. More rewards TBA later

The sensible folk here will never rely on your 'information' and dubious fake links Iaians but your game will lose its fun in time at least among the Americans


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 02:10 PM

Nice to know the daily telegraph is fake news, I suspect one or two here might take issue with you on that.

It does seem to me that there has been a problem dealing with the sheer number of unaccompanied illegal child immigrants since at least OBama's second administration. To suddenly see it as a problem now is a tad mendacious.
Where was your outrage during OBama's administration? By now the situation should have been resolved. Where was your democratic protest over that? After all it was during your administration the problem raised it's head and nothing was done to make any attempt to alleviate the situation.

To suddenly make out it is a brand new problem due to the President is totally dishonest. Where is your shame?

The link below shows a far better way to show your concern. I imagine most of these organisations still exist.

From 2014

https://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5895277/children-border-how-help-donate-volunteer-foster-immigrants-refugees


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 03:49 PM

Following the Vox magazine link supplied by Iains,
the link is current regardless of being several years old.
What is better,
the specific organization links WITHIN the article remain valid.

I just looked at the link for Annunciation House in El Paso.
They are at their fortieth anniversary
and desperately need to renovate their house/campus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 04:53 PM

There is a fundamental pathos born of stripping children from parents.
Even if you are a psychopath it tears at your heart strings.

It was your link that could not be found, not the Telegraph Iians.

Tea?


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 05:58 PM

"“Today, nearly one in every 200 children in the world is a refugee,” said Lily Caprani, Unicef UK’s deputy executive director. “In the last few years we have seen huge numbers of children being forced to flee their homes, and take dangerous, desperate journeys, often on their own. Children on the move are at risk of the worst forms of abuse and harm and can easily fall victim to traffickers and other criminals."
Just two countries – Syria and Afghanistan – comprise half of all child refugees under protection by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), while roughly three-quarters of the world’s child refugees come from just 10 countries.

Now I wonder what country has created the mayhem to create these refugees? Is Iran the next domino to fall to swell the numbers?

New and on-going global conflicts over the last five years have forced the number of child refugees to jump by 75% to 8 million,


https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/sep/07/nearly-half-of-all-refugees-are-children-unicef-report-migrants-united-nations


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 06:04 PM

I'm having a hard time finding the truth in this. "Toddlers housed in kennel cages" sounds too extreme to be true, but it does appear that children are being taken from their parents, and the parents separated and jailed.
Has anybody found a factual account on that's happening?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 06:18 PM

You would if you could simplify your rant that all the respondsibility for evil in the world belongs to the actions and reactions of one nation, the United States.

I have a more omnicient point of view and as such do not have your exclusive narrow focus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 06:40 PM

Joe. cages and kennels but shy on actual dimensions.

https://riograndeguardian.com/gonzalez-backs-merkleys-valley-visit/


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 06:50 PM

The most cruel cage is the fear not the dimensions.

I trust Sen. Merkley. What ever the conditions, there has to be chaos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 07:17 PM

"Now I wonder what country has created the mayhem to create these refugees?"
At present, the most ongoing reason for refugees is traceable back to oil - the need to guarantee a steady flow to the richer countries
The largest single national group of refugees in the world today are The Palestinians - NEARLY 7.2 MILLION
That is set to increase dramatically if the present demands for ethnic cleansing the Palestinians is met.
Britain as a former Empire is very much a part of the creating of that inconceivable figure, especially with its policy of indiscriminate arms sales and the desire to to keep a "safe pair of hands" in charge, whatever their Human Rights record
For instance, it seems appalling to sell fighter planes to the Saudis to be used in their war against the Famine-struck Yemenis and then refuse entry to the refugees from that war
That's pretty well the stance we have taken in Syria - a war we could have helped stop, but instead, sold Assad chemicals that possibly helped him build a stock of chemical weapons
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 07:21 PM

No Donuel the most cruel cage is a totally blinkered mindset that refuses to acknowledge that the true story may have much deeper ramifications, and extend further back in time, than what is initially being presented.
   Awfully satisfying to blame all on the nasty Mr Trump. But is it true? And our you sufficient a sentient being to look for the bigger story? or just accept what is offered because it matches you perception of reality?


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 07:39 PM

The issue is not whether it is a cage or a kennel; the issue is that children are being taken from their parents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 07:56 PM

"But is it true? "
It is unbelievable that anybody should doubt this maiac to be incapable of anything given his behaviour since taking office - nearly as unbelievable as his being elected given his track-record
The man is all the James Bond villains rolled into one, with a sprinkle of Dr Strangelove to add flavour
Not too long ago you accused me of disrespecting the British people over their choice of newspaper - do the opinions of the millions who have demonstrated all over the world against his contemptible behaviour count for nothing (or are they "fake news" as well?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 09:14 PM

I know what the Trump Administration says about immigrants, and I doubt that they would have any hesitation about caging kids and breaking apart families. But I worked for the U.S. Government 1970-2001, and I know that U.S. civil servants generally will not treat human beings in an inhumane manner. I've worked in a number of immigration detention facilities, and they are generally quite humane. At least during the time that I worked for the government, a large number of Immigration employees were foreign-born, because most were required to speak a second language.

I did write a number of scathing reports on Immigration employees who were cruel in their treatment of immigrants, but those inhumane employees were a very small minority.

So, yeah, it's hard for me to believe that immigration detention facilities are as cruel as some liberal politicians claim them to be, or that some conservative politicians want them to be.

But for a U.S. Senator or Member of Congress to be refused entry to a government facility? That seems to me to be unthinkable. I think there must be something more to that story.

I'd like to see the truth, and so far I have seen information from sources I don't know or don't trust.

-Joe-

P.S. Jim Carroll, this thread is not about Palestine, so please refrain from talking about Palestine in this thread. This thread is about U.S. Immigration, which is also a serious issue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: meself
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 09:29 PM

My impression is that the professionals dealing with the children are being overwhelmed by the sheer numbers - formerly, they only had 'unaccompanied minors' - mostly teenagers - to deal with; now they have large numbers of 'accompanied' minors added, and these are younger children. The accusation is not that individuals are treating them badly, but that the system itself is, in the end, unnecessarily cruel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 02:54 AM

"Jim Carroll, this thread is not about Palestine,"
My mentioning Palestine was in response to Iains question of where the immigration problem originated
To attempt to ban references to facts such as these is highly censorial and goes against everything forums such as these should stand for
As it is, it is virtually impossible to discuss a current issue because "Palestine" has become forbidden Mudcat territory
I have no wish to fall out with you, so please do not make yourself part of this censorship
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 03:39 AM

I see that the senator from Oregon was denied entrance to a contract detention facility, not a government facility. This "lack of transparency" has always been a problem with contracted correctional facilities. Facilities operated by civil service employees have far fewer abuses.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 04:22 AM

I may not understand all of the intricacies of the argument but was is not the treatment of illegal immigrants as criminals that both created and publicised the problem.
Are the children not put in a care facility if the parents are arrested ?
Surely this has to be more humane than arresting them and caging them along with their parents?
The wider issues of: private detention facilitities
                     overcrowding
                     the increased scale of an ongoing problem
                     the fact that the US holds greater numbers in
                     jail than virtually anywhere else
These issues may or may not be a part of the same problem.
The liberals seem to have only read part of the story before the gnashing of teeth and wailing and automatically blaming Trump, even for the sun rising in the morning!


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 04:33 AM

In UK, there are several 'contracted-out' prisons, run by G4S, Serco etc. Yet they are subject to regular compulsory, unannounced inspections by government teams in the same way as any other prisons. The same regulations apply to all detention units, Young Offenders Institutions, immigration detention centres and so on.

Surely one cannot have private companies keeping people (including children!!!) in detention with no monitoring, assessment or supervision? All sorts of horrendous abuses could be taking place!


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM

"The liberals seem to have only read part of the story before the gnashing of teeth and wailing and automatically blaming Trump"
This aggressive language is goung to close this thread
That it should be in support of the most unstable and aggressive world leader since Hitler is ironic, to say the least
Support this monster if that's what turns you on, but do so showing a degree of respect to other posters or you will end up punishing us all
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 04:50 AM

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM

Ho, Ho, Ho!


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 05:19 AM

"Ho, Ho, Ho!"
Can I request that a mid pots a stop to this without closing this thread
This behaviour is obviously designed to close this thread
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:32 AM

Obviously in too much of a hurry trying to stop this thread being closed
Should read "Can I request that a mod puts a stop to this without closing this thread"
Apologies
Jim Carroll


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Mudcat time: 21 June 2:26 AM EDT

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