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BS: what is a huff?

keberoxu 08 Jun 18 - 01:44 PM
meself 08 Jun 18 - 01:52 PM
DMcG 08 Jun 18 - 01:55 PM
Donuel 08 Jun 18 - 01:57 PM
Senoufou 08 Jun 18 - 02:03 PM
Raggytash 08 Jun 18 - 02:18 PM
Will Fly 08 Jun 18 - 02:22 PM
Senoufou 08 Jun 18 - 02:26 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jun 18 - 05:11 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jun 18 - 05:24 PM
Senoufou 08 Jun 18 - 05:29 PM
keberoxu 08 Jun 18 - 05:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jun 18 - 05:48 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jun 18 - 06:43 PM
keberoxu 08 Jun 18 - 07:10 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jun 18 - 07:20 PM
Acme 08 Jun 18 - 09:38 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jun 18 - 03:46 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jun 18 - 03:47 AM
Acme 09 Jun 18 - 09:59 AM
Acme 09 Jun 18 - 10:40 AM
Jeri 09 Jun 18 - 11:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jun 18 - 12:17 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Jun 18 - 12:34 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jun 18 - 12:50 PM
Iains 10 Jun 18 - 03:17 AM
Doug Chadwick 10 Jun 18 - 04:07 AM
Acme 10 Jun 18 - 10:33 AM
keberoxu 11 Jun 18 - 02:06 PM
Senoufou 11 Jun 18 - 02:16 PM
Raedwulf 12 Jun 18 - 10:36 AM
Raedwulf 12 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Jun 18 - 10:54 AM
Kenny B 12 Jun 18 - 11:46 AM
Senoufou 12 Jun 18 - 12:33 PM
Kenny B 12 Jun 18 - 12:49 PM
Senoufou 12 Jun 18 - 12:50 PM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Jun 18 - 04:24 PM
keberoxu 13 Jun 18 - 01:43 PM
MikeL2 14 Jun 18 - 02:46 PM
Senoufou 14 Jun 18 - 03:05 PM
Raedwulf 14 Jun 18 - 03:14 PM
Senoufou 14 Jun 18 - 03:39 PM
Raedwulf 14 Jun 18 - 03:53 PM
keberoxu 14 Jun 18 - 06:05 PM
Iains 15 Jun 18 - 03:53 AM
keberoxu 16 Jun 18 - 02:04 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Jun 18 - 02:38 PM
EBarnacle 17 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Jun 18 - 11:01 AM
keberoxu 17 Jun 18 - 10:29 PM

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Subject: Leaving in a Huff.
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 01:44 PM

A Mudcat member has just Left In A Huff.

What is a huff, anyway?

Years ago some wag riposted that
a huff was an antique car with wire wheels,
but I don't find anything to back that up.
Probably a leg-puller.

All I can think of is:
I'll Huff
and I'll Puff
and I'll
BLOW yer house down!

(Too bad. The one who just left in a huff
was capable of contributing interesting and informative
reminiscences about the Oireachtas in the time of Maire ni Scolai,
for example. I'll miss those.)


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 01:52 PM

Same as a snit.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 01:55 PM

There are draughts and similar games


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 01:57 PM

he'll be back
with more flack


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 02:03 PM

'Huffen und schnuffeln' - so probably of German or Dutch origins. It dates back to about the 15th or 16th Century = blowing out air and sniffing!

I like the Norfolk snottin' n' snivellin' (as in "Dew yew stop that snottin' n' snivellin'! Yer crazin' me!") = weeping and moaning

I hope Jim does come back. I liked his posts, even if he got a bit heated at times.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 02:18 PM

I have missed this particular fracas, so I do not know the details.

What I will say is that Jim is one of the few men on this site who I believe to be truly honest.

Yes, I accept that I have "crossed sword with him on occasion, but not for one second have I ever doubted his commitment to that which he believed in.

He is a better man by far than many posters on here.

Jim, if you don't post again, live long and die happy.

Cheers

Nick


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 02:22 PM

As Groucho said, "I'm going to leave in a huff - or, if you're lucky, a minute and a huff..."


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 02:26 PM

You're right Raggytash, he passionately believed in what he wrote, and had a lot of compassionate feeling for various communities of which he had much experience.
Like you, I wish him well.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 05:11 PM

I really am quite saddened by this turn of events. I also crossed swords with Jim on occasions but he remained a gentleman and never held a grudge. I hope to keep in touch and that he will eventually return.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 05:24 PM

I've messaged him asking him to reconsider. He's the truly human face of this forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 05:29 PM

I've messaged him too Steve. He would be much missed if he left Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 05:32 PM

Raggytash et alia,
the only information I'm privy to
is what's posted on threads for all to see.

In particular,
the BS thread "Censorship" which consists of one post,
having been closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 05:48 PM

That is part of the problem keberoxu. The thread was not just closed, it was closed with a comment from a moderator with no right of reply. Now, that is fair enough as the mods are the ones that run the show but I can see how that could cause a problem.

I have messaged Jim too but as I said to him he has to do what is best for him. No point in continuing something that is no longer enjoyable.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 06:43 PM

The comment from the mod was anonymous. Bad move. Last words followed by closure are one of the negative things that happen here. I hope the mod in question feels happy and I hope it wasn't the one mod I respect the most.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:10 PM

Be careful here,
fellow Mudcat members.

Don't know if it has been said to any of you,
but on more than one occasion,
I have been told, in so many words,
that posts about how threads are moderated
-- I suppose this post counts as well --
are crossing a line, and subject to action.

You have been warned.

As regards other threads:
Relative to the BS thread "Censorship"
is the BS thread "Toddlers in kennel cages."
I'm not going to go into detail here,
except to say that a moderator turned up with a public post.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:20 PM

Well we can all decide to say, fearlessly, what we feel needs to be said. Just like that mod. And, if necessary, be damned.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Acme
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 09:38 PM

Anonymous, not anonymous. Each type of moderator comment comes with a problem, and a type of attack from those angry about the act of closing the thread. As it happens, I wrote the note and closed the thread. We have had a steady stream of combative threads on the same Israel/Palestine topic and I'm tired of trying to either clean them up so they can last, or closing them because they've turned too nasty. There are still a couple in play where the discussion can or has taken place.

If these guys can't fight their fights out in the unmoderated world of the Wild Internet, because they'd be trounced in an instant, why should they be allowed to continually trash the general off-topic section of a music site? If the topics moved forward instead of rehashing the same material, if they didn't use weasel words to set each other off, knowing how each person responds to various triggers, then it would be possible to let the conversation go forward. When they start with a fight, then there is no hope.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM

All
Many thanks for your messages, lump-in-the-throat seems to be an affliction that comes with age
I have laid out my reasoning and my feeling to a mod I like and respect and will decide where I go from here
I'll miss this forum and many of the people on it - it's been a voice that I (and I suspect others) wouldn't have had on subjects that are important to me, it has also been an opportunity to make friends I wouldn't otherwise have met.
I will say that, while I have accepted and sometimes have been relieved to see threads closed when they have got out of hand, I will not hang around when entire humanitarian subjects are formally made no-go areas without obvious reason and without the right of appeal (even criminals are granted that right)
I don't think I have been any more responsible for closing threads than anybody else, but I was not granted the right to respond to that accusation.
Ah well - as I said to the mod - I'll see what happens
The very best to you all (hope this posting doesn't get the tread closed)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 03:46 AM

That's all fine, but it almost amounts to proscribing certain topics. I've seen that happen elsewhere with religion and abortion. Either you have an open forum or you don't. With respect, the wrong person has been driven away. At least two people "on Israel's side" who routinely troll these threads must be chortling into their cornflakes this morning. It was wonderful to see two dreadful individuals at long last being dealt with a little while ago. If you really want to raise the tone of the place, a bit more of that targeting would be far more effective than using blunt instruments that have the unintended effect of driving away passionate and knowledgeable people whose instincts are solidly humanitarian. If we can't get Jim to change his mind, this place will be a lot poorer.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 03:47 AM

That was to Maggie, not Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Acme
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 09:59 AM

And I fully agree with you, Steve. Those who know they can manipulate the participants to trash the thread are the most guilty of the mess that happens. When possible the problematic posts are removed to let a thread continue, but since people continue to feed those trolls, the topic is such a tangle there is no way to clean out the trash without turning it into nonsense. Another goal of the mudcat (apparently) sanctioned trolls. Here's hoping their days are numbered.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Acme
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 10:40 AM

Noted conservative intellectual William F. Buckley had a PBS program called Firing Line for 33 years. He interviewed conservatives, liberals, socialists, anarchists, and everyone in between. From his staunch yet well-informed position, he asked excellent questions and participated in lively discussions.

Buckley died a number of years ago, but Margaret Hoover, the granddaughter of President Hoover, is the host of a revived version of the program. She hopes to integrate clips from the former program into the new one to benefit from Buckley's wit and wisdom.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/09/618496720/william-f-buckleys-firing-line-returns-with-margaret-hoover

My point here is that his guests didn't leave in a huff. They had respectful and yet lively conversations about important ideas of the day, examining the point of view of the guest. We sometimes achieve that kind of discussion here at mudcat, when trolls have no interest in those threads. Where possible, the trolling will be removed, if people can remember not to respond to their barbs and insults.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 11:11 AM

The problem with the "debates" here is that if the right people get involved, they often become a continuation of a personal spat that's more about their opponent than the subject, and which shut out everybody else. Despite Jim's continued reference to Mudcat as a "debate" forum, it's not. We don't have the setup to nurture these debates, and like ACME said, when it becomes too hard to weed the posts, closing the thread is the only option we have.

In other words, we don't appreciate people shitting in the house, but we can clean up a small amount. Too much, and the doors get locked.

So what happens is the right individuals sink their teeth in, and don't have the self-editing capability to NOT go after people.

I'd guess there's a home somewhere on the internet that's more hospitable to fighting about same shit, different day.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 12:17 PM

Jim.. before you do any long term or permanent buggering off...

As a tradesman of many years, you should be well aware of how 'constructive dismissal' works...

Don't give the rotters who want you gone,
the satisfaction of you leaving because they made you too fed up to stay...

Where my mrs works in LEA, we can see good older experienced workers
taking early retirement, or resigning,
because the job has been deliberately made so stressful they can't cope any more,
Thus saving the bosses the expense and blame of making them redundant,
or finding petty pretences to sack them......

When they tried it on with my mrs, I convinced her to get her union rep involved and fight back...

That was a very distressing few months of struggle..

After that, the bosses have left her alone and picked on weaker individuals...


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 12:34 PM

PFR
I'm going to be around for a while yet - I have made promises to pass on some of our stuff to people here and this forum is the only way I can stay in touch with them
While I'm reluctant to leave, I don't want to do another Richard III, but there's a principle involved here regarding what we are allowed to discuss
We'll see how things pan out
Thanks
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 12:50 PM

"Those who know they can manipulate the participants to trash the thread are the most guilty of the mess that happens."

So make your job simpler. When they start, yellow card. One more strike and you're out. There are approximately four individuals who foment trouble. I'll name names if you challenge me to. You got rid of two others and the place improved immeasurably. You got rid of another who wasn't doing much harm but hey ho. One problem I've gleaned is that two of the worst offenders have garnered the sympathies of a mod each. Doesn't exactly help, does it?


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 03:17 AM

I also could make a list of names of four of the worst offenders. I wonder if we both have the same people in mind? Somehow I doubt it.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 04:07 AM

I could make a list of eight.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Acme
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 10:33 AM

So many excellent lists. (Down a YouTube rabbit hole.)


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 02:06 PM

So,
when Mudcat members leave voluntarily,
they may or may not leave In A Huff.

When Mudcat members are given a time-out
or made permanent Guests,

I wonder,
in what sort of conveyances or vehicles do They leave . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 02:16 PM

A dudgeon?


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 10:36 AM

Only a curmudgeon leaves in a dudgeon. It's a little like that little lad in The Phantom Tollbooth - if every family has 2.4 children & 1.3 cars, then only the 0.4 of a child can drive the 0.3 of a car... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM

And, before anyone asks, if you are British, you must be above 5'10" (male) or 5'5" (female) if you wish to leave in High Dudgeon!


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 10:54 AM

Or on some form of wacky baccy.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Kenny B
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 11:46 AM

I always thought that HUFF was the first was the start of the threat by the Big Bad Wolf as in.....
Once upon a time there were three little pigs and the time came for them to leave home and seek their fortunes. Before they left, their mother told them " Whatever you do , do it the best that you can because that's the way to get along in the world.
The first little pig built his house out of straw because it was the easiest thing to do. The second little pig built his house out of sticks. This was a little bit stronger than a straw house. The third little pig built his house out of bricks.
One night the big bad wolf, who dearly loved to eat fat little piggies, came along and saw the first little pig in his house of straw. He said "Let me in, Let me in, little pig or I'll HUFF and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in!" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig. But of course the wolf did blow the house in and ate the first little pig.
The wolf then came to the house of sticks. "Let me in ,Let me in little pig or I'll HUFF and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig. But the wolf blew that house in too, and ate the second little pig.
The wolf then came to the house of bricks. " Let me in , let me in" cried the wolf "Or I'll HUFF and I'll puff till I blow your house in" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin" said the pigs. Well, the wolf huffed and puffed but he could not blow down that brick house.
But the wolf was a sly old wolf and he climbed up on the roof to look for a way into the brick house.
The little pig saw the wolf climb up on the roof and lit a roaring fire in the fireplace and placed on it a large kettle of water.
When the wolf finally found the hole in the chimney he crawled down and KERSPLASH right into that kettle of water and that was the end of his troubles with the big bad wolf.
The next day the little pig invited his mother over . She said "You see it is just as I told you. The way to get along in the world is to do things as well as you can." Fortunately for that little pig, he learned that lesson. And he just lived happily ever after!


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 12:33 PM

Oh dear, Kenny! That's not how I heard the story (in the late forties)

The first little pig ran out of his straw house and sheltered with his brother in the house of sticks. Then the two of them ran away and sheltered with their brother in the house of bricks.
The wolf tried to get down the chimney of the brick house, but merely burnt his bottom and ran off, never to be seen again.

I'd have cried if the first two pigs had been eaten, and the poor wolf boiled to death!

(I even cried about the ant and the grasshopper. The ant had worked hard and got stores in for the winter while the grasshopper merely sang. In the bitter weather he knocked on the ant's door in desperation, but was told "You sang all summer, now you can dance!"
I thought that was horrible of the sanctimonious ant!)


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Kenny B
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 12:49 PM

Im sure that was a 1940s version …. long before you were born, it was a cruel world then


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 12:50 PM

True Kenny. The stories by the Brothers Grimm were exactly that - GRIM!


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 04:24 PM

Well, that covers a lot of ground. Say, you cover a lot of ground yourself. You better beat it - I hear they're going to tear you down and put up an office building where you're standing. You can leave in a taxi. If you can't get a taxi, you can leave in a huff. If that's too soon, you can leave in a minute and a huff. You know, you haven't stopped talking since I came here? You must have been vaccinated with a phonograph needle.

Groucho Marx


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 01:43 PM

Hmmm. Dudgeon.

I have in fact heard of High Dudgeon.

I wonder if there are Low Dudgeons and High Dudgeons,
rather like Low Church and High Church?


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: MikeL2
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 02:46 PM

Hi

I have come late on this thread but could I offer this ??

When we were kids we used to play Draughts ( in US Checkers ). In our game if your opponent missed taking a counter you could "huff" him and take his counter with which he should have taken yours.

It was well known in our area NW England but don't know if anyone else remembers this ??

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:05 PM

Oh yes Mike, I well remember huffing my sister at draughts! (W London)
There must be some connection linguistically between that and going off in a huff!


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:14 PM

Keb - Nope! There's only... Actually, there's only high dudgeon. I don't think I've ever heard dudgeon used on its own, oddly enough (you can find examples on t'net). It's always 'high'. Even my dear old OED says "Origin unknown". The only alternative definition is that it's the name of a wood, possibly the root of the box* that was used to make hilts for knives & daggers. Quite how that relates to a feeling of being rather miffed...

* box is very hard wearing so this is plausible, but what the connection between Norman digeon 'box root' (maybe) & English dudgeon 'miffed' is... Well, it's beyond me! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:39 PM

We used to say, "She left in a dudgeon," or "He was in a bit of a dudgeon". I don't actually remember saying 'high dudgeon'.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:53 PM

And that's me told off. {leaves in a curmudgeon. Or something...}


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 06:05 PM

As I suspected:
some people leave in a bit of a dudgeon
and some people leave in a high dudgeon.

Maybe huffs differ as well:
some people leave in a bit of a huff
and some people leave in a great huff.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 03:53 AM

Or perhaps in a whinging dudgeon!


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 02:04 PM

There's always slinking off with your tail between your legs.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 02:38 PM

Especially when you're hoist by your own petard.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM

I believe High Dudgeon is a ghost town part way up a mountainside in Colorado.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 11:01 AM

Nah, it's part way up Shit Creek. Leave the paddle at home.


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Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 10:29 PM

Deep Serious,
one of my computer teachers used to call it.


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