BS: what is a huff?

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: JHW
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 04:00 PM

Vin Garbutt told us one night in one of his preamble tales that 'she went off in a huff', a huff he explained is a one wheeled Irish cart, you can see the tracks they make everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 06:02 AM

In England, we're very class conscious - we tend to think of ourselves leaving in high dudgeon, rather than middle dudgeon or (horror of horrors) low dudgeon, which would be frightfully common.

Huff definitely comes from the popular German phrase:

Vee huff vays of making you talk...

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 07:00 PM

Yellow makes me wonder if that's a racist slang for "high yellow," as in, a slave was doing that job? I don't remember that Heyer ever touched on slavery, though she must have represented quite a few servants in the books.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 04:35 PM

More than that: they were "yellow bounders"!

Must be quite an experience, a "yellow bounder".
Just looked it up at the Glossary page of Regency World.

So economical in design is the "yellow bounder,"
that the person in charge rides on the back of the horse,
or one of the horses, pulling the vehicle;
there is no coachman's or driver's seat on top of the thing.

The vehicle is classed as a "post-chaise"
and it is rarely owned, but rather
hired from posting inns, complete with
"post boys" who were generally too old to actually be boys.

Goodness, the things I learn while looking stuff up.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 12:51 PM

And did you know that in Regency times
there used to be a horse-drawn conveyance
familiarly known as
a "bounder" ?

(also from "Friday's Child")

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 05:25 AM

It's what you go off in when the step up to a high dudgeon is too steep.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 03:48 AM

Probably of no help but 'Dudgeon' is an archaic word for box-wood, popularly associated with the making of knife-handles
Just a thought
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: ripov
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 09:16 PM

just surmise, but if there's a connection between dudeen, dutchie, and dudgeon ('high' may indicate a possible link) maybe a 'huff' is something like a 'cloud of (herbal) smoke' ?

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:05 AM

You're quite right keberoxu. (I've got all Georgette Heyer's Regency novels - love 'em!)
Perhaps there are different degrees of dudgeon. An enormous dudgeon, a medium-sized dudgeon and a smidgeon of a dudgeon.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 03:55 AM

In the digital pub that is this parish we can take our cue from what happens in real world pubs.

Opinions that are too combative:

1) people drift away, leaving the few to agree because there is no-one t argue with.
2) people argue too loudly so that uninterested parties are fed up and they drift away
3) people come to blows so that they are evicted and their entourage drift away with them.

Sound familiar?

BS is there to let off steam and keep the angry mob away from the erudition. We have to police ourselves:

1) Don't venture where it is not appealing.
2) Don't address the opiner, address the issue.
3) Don't drink and drivel.

and isn't a Huff a single sentence on the "Huffington Post"?






I'll get my huff...................

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 06:32 PM

About dudgeons.

Have just been re-reading "Friday's Child,"
one of the more entertaining and humo[u]rous
of Georgette Heyer's neo-Regency best-sellers.

And Heyer gives us both
"high dudgeon"
and
"a bit of a dudgeon."

so THERE.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 10:29 PM

Deep Serious,
one of my computer teachers used to call it.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 11:01 AM

Nah, it's part way up Shit Creek. Leave the paddle at home.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM

I believe High Dudgeon is a ghost town part way up a mountainside in Colorado.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 02:38 PM

Especially when you're hoist by your own petard.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 02:04 PM

There's always slinking off with your tail between your legs.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 03:53 AM

Or perhaps in a whinging dudgeon!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 06:05 PM

As I suspected:
some people leave in a bit of a dudgeon
and some people leave in a high dudgeon.

Maybe huffs differ as well:
some people leave in a bit of a huff
and some people leave in a great huff.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:53 PM

And that's me told off. {leaves in a curmudgeon. Or something...}

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:39 PM

We used to say, "She left in a dudgeon," or "He was in a bit of a dudgeon". I don't actually remember saying 'high dudgeon'.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:14 PM

Keb - Nope! There's only... Actually, there's only high dudgeon. I don't think I've ever heard dudgeon used on its own, oddly enough (you can find examples on t'net). It's always 'high'. Even my dear old OED says "Origin unknown". The only alternative definition is that it's the name of a wood, possibly the root of the box* that was used to make hilts for knives & daggers. Quite how that relates to a feeling of being rather miffed...

* box is very hard wearing so this is plausible, but what the connection between Norman digeon 'box root' (maybe) & English dudgeon 'miffed' is... Well, it's beyond me! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 03:05 PM

Oh yes Mike, I well remember huffing my sister at draughts! (W London)
There must be some connection linguistically between that and going off in a huff!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: MikeL2
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 02:46 PM

Hi

I have come late on this thread but could I offer this ??

When we were kids we used to play Draughts ( in US Checkers ). In our game if your opponent missed taking a counter you could "huff" him and take his counter with which he should have taken yours.

It was well known in our area NW England but don't know if anyone else remembers this ??

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 01:43 PM

Hmmm. Dudgeon.

I have in fact heard of High Dudgeon.

I wonder if there are Low Dudgeons and High Dudgeons,
rather like Low Church and High Church?

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 04:24 PM

Well, that covers a lot of ground. Say, you cover a lot of ground yourself. You better beat it - I hear they're going to tear you down and put up an office building where you're standing. You can leave in a taxi. If you can't get a taxi, you can leave in a huff. If that's too soon, you can leave in a minute and a huff. You know, you haven't stopped talking since I came here? You must have been vaccinated with a phonograph needle.

Groucho Marx

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 12:50 PM

True Kenny. The stories by the Brothers Grimm were exactly that - GRIM!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 12:49 PM

Im sure that was a 1940s version …. long before you were born, it was a cruel world then

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 12:33 PM

Oh dear, Kenny! That's not how I heard the story (in the late forties)

The first little pig ran out of his straw house and sheltered with his brother in the house of sticks. Then the two of them ran away and sheltered with their brother in the house of bricks.
The wolf tried to get down the chimney of the brick house, but merely burnt his bottom and ran off, never to be seen again.

I'd have cried if the first two pigs had been eaten, and the poor wolf boiled to death!

(I even cried about the ant and the grasshopper. The ant had worked hard and got stores in for the winter while the grasshopper merely sang. In the bitter weather he knocked on the ant's door in desperation, but was told "You sang all summer, now you can dance!"
I thought that was horrible of the sanctimonious ant!)

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 11:46 AM

I always thought that HUFF was the first was the start of the threat by the Big Bad Wolf as in.....
Once upon a time there were three little pigs and the time came for them to leave home and seek their fortunes. Before they left, their mother told them " Whatever you do , do it the best that you can because that's the way to get along in the world.
The first little pig built his house out of straw because it was the easiest thing to do. The second little pig built his house out of sticks. This was a little bit stronger than a straw house. The third little pig built his house out of bricks.
One night the big bad wolf, who dearly loved to eat fat little piggies, came along and saw the first little pig in his house of straw. He said "Let me in, Let me in, little pig or I'll HUFF and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in!" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig. But of course the wolf did blow the house in and ate the first little pig.
The wolf then came to the house of sticks. "Let me in ,Let me in little pig or I'll HUFF and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig. But the wolf blew that house in too, and ate the second little pig.
The wolf then came to the house of bricks. " Let me in , let me in" cried the wolf "Or I'll HUFF and I'll puff till I blow your house in" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin" said the pigs. Well, the wolf huffed and puffed but he could not blow down that brick house.
But the wolf was a sly old wolf and he climbed up on the roof to look for a way into the brick house.
The little pig saw the wolf climb up on the roof and lit a roaring fire in the fireplace and placed on it a large kettle of water.
When the wolf finally found the hole in the chimney he crawled down and KERSPLASH right into that kettle of water and that was the end of his troubles with the big bad wolf.
The next day the little pig invited his mother over . She said "You see it is just as I told you. The way to get along in the world is to do things as well as you can." Fortunately for that little pig, he learned that lesson. And he just lived happily ever after!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 10:54 AM

Or on some form of wacky baccy.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM

And, before anyone asks, if you are British, you must be above 5'10" (male) or 5'5" (female) if you wish to leave in High Dudgeon!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 10:36 AM

Only a curmudgeon leaves in a dudgeon. It's a little like that little lad in The Phantom Tollbooth - if every family has 2.4 children & 1.3 cars, then only the 0.4 of a child can drive the 0.3 of a car... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 02:16 PM

A dudgeon?

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 02:06 PM

So,
when Mudcat members leave voluntarily,
they may or may not leave In A Huff.

When Mudcat members are given a time-out
or made permanent Guests,

I wonder,
in what sort of conveyances or vehicles do They leave . . .

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 10:33 AM

So many excellent lists. (Down a YouTube rabbit hole.)

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 04:07 AM

I could make a list of eight.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 03:17 AM

I also could make a list of names of four of the worst offenders. I wonder if we both have the same people in mind? Somehow I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 12:50 PM

"Those who know they can manipulate the participants to trash the thread are the most guilty of the mess that happens."

So make your job simpler. When they start, yellow card. One more strike and you're out. There are approximately four individuals who foment trouble. I'll name names if you challenge me to. You got rid of two others and the place improved immeasurably. You got rid of another who wasn't doing much harm but hey ho. One problem I've gleaned is that two of the worst offenders have garnered the sympathies of a mod each. Doesn't exactly help, does it?

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 12:34 PM

PFR
I'm going to be around for a while yet - I have made promises to pass on some of our stuff to people here and this forum is the only way I can stay in touch with them
While I'm reluctant to leave, I don't want to do another Richard III, but there's a principle involved here regarding what we are allowed to discuss
We'll see how things pan out
Thanks
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 12:17 PM

Jim.. before you do any long term or permanent buggering off...

As a tradesman of many years, you should be well aware of how 'constructive dismissal' works...

Don't give the rotters who want you gone,
the satisfaction of you leaving because they made you too fed up to stay...

Where my mrs works in LEA, we can see good older experienced workers
taking early retirement, or resigning,
because the job has been deliberately made so stressful they can't cope any more,
Thus saving the bosses the expense and blame of making them redundant,
or finding petty pretences to sack them......

When they tried it on with my mrs, I convinced her to get her union rep involved and fight back...

That was a very distressing few months of struggle..

After that, the bosses have left her alone and picked on weaker individuals...

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 11:11 AM

The problem with the "debates" here is that if the right people get involved, they often become a continuation of a personal spat that's more about their opponent than the subject, and which shut out everybody else. Despite Jim's continued reference to Mudcat as a "debate" forum, it's not. We don't have the setup to nurture these debates, and like ACME said, when it becomes too hard to weed the posts, closing the thread is the only option we have.

In other words, we don't appreciate people shitting in the house, but we can clean up a small amount. Too much, and the doors get locked.

So what happens is the right individuals sink their teeth in, and don't have the self-editing capability to NOT go after people.

I'd guess there's a home somewhere on the internet that's more hospitable to fighting about same shit, different day.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 10:40 AM

Noted conservative intellectual William F. Buckley had a PBS program called Firing Line for 33 years. He interviewed conservatives, liberals, socialists, anarchists, and everyone in between. From his staunch yet well-informed position, he asked excellent questions and participated in lively discussions.

Buckley died a number of years ago, but Margaret Hoover, the granddaughter of President Hoover, is the host of a revived version of the program. She hopes to integrate clips from the former program into the new one to benefit from Buckley's wit and wisdom.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/09/618496720/william-f-buckleys-firing-line-returns-with-margaret-hoover

My point here is that his guests didn't leave in a huff. They had respectful and yet lively conversations about important ideas of the day, examining the point of view of the guest. We sometimes achieve that kind of discussion here at mudcat, when trolls have no interest in those threads. Where possible, the trolling will be removed, if people can remember not to respond to their barbs and insults.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 09:59 AM

And I fully agree with you, Steve. Those who know they can manipulate the participants to trash the thread are the most guilty of the mess that happens. When possible the problematic posts are removed to let a thread continue, but since people continue to feed those trolls, the topic is such a tangle there is no way to clean out the trash without turning it into nonsense. Another goal of the mudcat (apparently) sanctioned trolls. Here's hoping their days are numbered.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 03:47 AM

That was to Maggie, not Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 03:46 AM

That's all fine, but it almost amounts to proscribing certain topics. I've seen that happen elsewhere with religion and abortion. Either you have an open forum or you don't. With respect, the wrong person has been driven away. At least two people "on Israel's side" who routinely troll these threads must be chortling into their cornflakes this morning. It was wonderful to see two dreadful individuals at long last being dealt with a little while ago. If you really want to raise the tone of the place, a bit more of that targeting would be far more effective than using blunt instruments that have the unintended effect of driving away passionate and knowledgeable people whose instincts are solidly humanitarian. If we can't get Jim to change his mind, this place will be a lot poorer.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM

All
Many thanks for your messages, lump-in-the-throat seems to be an affliction that comes with age
I have laid out my reasoning and my feeling to a mod I like and respect and will decide where I go from here
I'll miss this forum and many of the people on it - it's been a voice that I (and I suspect others) wouldn't have had on subjects that are important to me, it has also been an opportunity to make friends I wouldn't otherwise have met.
I will say that, while I have accepted and sometimes have been relieved to see threads closed when they have got out of hand, I will not hang around when entire humanitarian subjects are formally made no-go areas without obvious reason and without the right of appeal (even criminals are granted that right)
I don't think I have been any more responsible for closing threads than anybody else, but I was not granted the right to respond to that accusation.
Ah well - as I said to the mod - I'll see what happens
The very best to you all (hope this posting doesn't get the tread closed)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 09:38 PM

Anonymous, not anonymous. Each type of moderator comment comes with a problem, and a type of attack from those angry about the act of closing the thread. As it happens, I wrote the note and closed the thread. We have had a steady stream of combative threads on the same Israel/Palestine topic and I'm tired of trying to either clean them up so they can last, or closing them because they've turned too nasty. There are still a couple in play where the discussion can or has taken place.

If these guys can't fight their fights out in the unmoderated world of the Wild Internet, because they'd be trounced in an instant, why should they be allowed to continually trash the general off-topic section of a music site? If the topics moved forward instead of rehashing the same material, if they didn't use weasel words to set each other off, knowing how each person responds to various triggers, then it would be possible to let the conversation go forward. When they start with a fight, then there is no hope.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:20 PM

Well we can all decide to say, fearlessly, what we feel needs to be said. Just like that mod. And, if necessary, be damned.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:10 PM

Be careful here,
fellow Mudcat members.

Don't know if it has been said to any of you,
but on more than one occasion,
I have been told, in so many words,
that posts about how threads are moderated
-- I suppose this post counts as well --
are crossing a line, and subject to action.

You have been warned.

As regards other threads:
Relative to the BS thread "Censorship"
is the BS thread "Toddlers in kennel cages."
I'm not going to go into detail here,
except to say that a moderator turned up with a public post.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a huff?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 06:43 PM

The comment from the mod was anonymous. Bad move. Last words followed by closure are one of the negative things that happen here. I hope the mod in question feels happy and I hope it wasn't the one mod I respect the most.