Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags

Subject: Quote Marks in HTML Links
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 03:34 PM

For a long time, I've been encouraging people NOT to use quotation marks in clickable links. I have gotten solid information that quotation marks are almost always optional in links, even though most instruction examples I've seen include the quote marks. The problem is, if you forget to close the quotation, it locks the entire thread for a lot of people, and that's not a nice thing to do. The simpler you make your HTML, the less likely you are to make mistakes. Therefore, can I ask all of you to please make your links look like this:

<a href=http://www.mudcat.org/>Click here</a>

If you do goof up on HTML, post a message on the Help Forum or send me a personal message, and I or a JoeClone® will fix it right away.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 03:47 PM

OK, now I have a question:
In this message (click), Thosp locked the thread by omitting the closing quotation marks in an HTML tag that set the typeface and size. His tag looked like this:

<font face="fantasy size=4>

The usual HTML guides would probably say that he should have posted it this way:

<font face="fantasy"size=4>

I just eliminated the quotation marks, and the tag worked just fine. My end product looked like this:

<font face=fantasy size=4>

OK, so my point is, are quotation marks in HTML tags always optional? I've tried eliminating the quotation marks in all sorts of situations, and the tags always seem to work just as well without the quotes.
Can somebody give some authoritative advice here? Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Oh, by the way, if you're going to do some fancy font work in a message, be sure to turn off the fancy stuff when you're finished. You terminate a font tag this way:

</font>

In other words, if you're going to use fancy font tags, or any HTML, don't forget to turn out the lights before you go to bed...

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 03:50 PM

good old mudcat, good old mudcat, good old mudcat joe!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 04:18 PM

Joe, I can't answer your question but see your point regarding the quote marks. Having said that, I for one don't enter HTML in here directly but let other programs such as Outlook Express and sometimes Front Page Express do the work for me and I just copy and paste the bits that I want.

I feel that in my case to go back to edit is more likely to lead to mistakes than the way I go about things now.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 04:32 PM

According to my tome, "Official HTML Publishing for Netscape":
"The use of quotation marks in HTML attributes can be very confusing...URL's, filenames, and all text entries, to be safe, should always appear within quotation marks -- even if they appear to work without them. This is because, while HTML is case insensitive, some host computers allow both upper and lower case characters in directory and filenames. If the quotation marks are omitted, the browser may interpret the entire string as uppercase and thus not fine the appropriate file." (p.150) yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 04:34 PM

"fine" should be "find" in the last sentence. yours, Peter T.(always profreed).

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Tony Burns
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 05:03 PM

Joe, Quotation marks are not always optional. That said, it is unlikely that someone using html within a Mudcat message is not likely to run into the exceptions. The exceptions that will get you in trouble are parameters that take special characters. The last one I say was a parameter given the value 100%. If it is not coded as "100%" it will not work in the latest version of Netscape.

I agree that it is best that most people leave them off. If you are coding more than very simple HTML then you will likely understand it well enought to use the double quotes successfully. I code all my HTML using a simple editor and I'm in the habit of always using double quotes.

The error I mentioned above still seems to be broken. If you are using Netscape and go to this site and click on E-LESSONS the right frame will go blank. The offending tag is <HR WIDTH=100% ALIGN=center SIZE=2 NOSHADE>

My guess is that Internet Explorer does not have a problem with this code. The standard requires quotes but standards are not always adhered to.

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: thosp
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 12:11 AM

thanks Joe O
i'm still a novice computer user -- a couple of years ago i'd have said that -- i would never have anything t do with computers --just look at me now ----- well anyway i'm very glad that i have become involved with them -- and i appreciate your help --it's me the computer and some books ( i'm trying to teach myself ) and asking questions of those who have gone before ---
thanks again and i'll do my best to remember to turn off the lights!

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: Download Links
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 03:26 AM

Thosp, you do very well - I've seen some of the creative stuff you've done in the HTML practice threads.
And tony burns, I'll take your statement as agreeing with me (I said quote marks are almost always optional), but I think your caveat is a good one - use care when omitting quote marks, too. The main point is that if you are going to use quotes in an HTML tag, be sure to close 'em.

Next Question:
I want to make a link to a sound file like this one: http://media.mudcat.org/midi/ZEBRADUN.mid But I want the file to download to the recipient's computer. I don't want it to play when the recipient clicks on the link. How do I make a download-only link, one thqt won't play a sound file?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Tony Burns
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 07:40 AM

Yes Joe, I agree with you.

My post was in response to your question earlier that said "OK, so my point is, are quotation marks in HTML tags always optional? I've tried eliminating the quotation marks in all sorts of situations, and the tags always seem to work just as well without the quotes. Can somebody give some authoritative advice here?"

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: MudGuard
Date: 26 Dec 99 - 02:08 PM

The Standard says quotes are NOT optional. But most browsers do not need them.

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: MudGuard
Date: 27 Dec 99 - 01:48 AM

Oh-oh. Somehow something was cut out of my last posting.
Joe, could you please use your edit button and replace

style="color:blue;"

with

<span style="color:blue;">

Thanks Joe,
MudGuard

Subject: HHTML Tags - SPAN
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Dec 99 - 02:32 AM

Mission accomplished, MudGuard, but now you bring up a new HTML tag I'm not familar with. I would have done the same thing with <font color=blue> </font>. What's the difference?

-Joe Offer, also still waiting to learn how do make a download link for sound files, instead of one that automatically opens the player-

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: MudGuard
Date: 27 Dec 99 - 03:03 AM

Thanks Joe!

As the HTML standard committee thinks about dropping the <font> tag in favour of style sheet font formatting, I start adapting myself to it.
As you might know, every html tag may have its style argument (as I used it in the <span> tag). The <span> was introduced for the sole purpose of formatting its content with style sheets

I could have mis-used the <b> tag instead, like <b style="font-weight:normal; color:blue;">My Text</b> (where the "font-weight:normal;" un-bolds the bold), but it is nicer to use the <span> tag instead.

Besides putting the styles in each tag, you can also define the styles for each tag in the head section, e.g. if I put the code into the head section that <b> should be red as well as bold, whereever I use <b> the text would appear bold+red unless I override the default style with a style argument
You can also define several classes of bold tags, like boldred, boldgreen...

It is also possible to have the style definitions in an extra file which is then only referenced on each page. This is very useful if you have lots of pages which should all have the same look.

As I do not have access to the head section of the page, I had to give the <span> tag its style argument.

I hope I did not confuse you completely, but it is hard to explain "cascading style sheets" in a few words.

MudGuard

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Mike Robertson
Date: 27 Dec 99 - 06:47 AM

My two penn'orth....

Whenever you're going to stick some HTML into your post then you should:

• Be sure that you actually need to use it in the first place (for example because you need to control formatting)
• Only use HTML elements you are safe with
• Only use HTML elements that make your message more readable (<BIG> and <BLINK> are two that can safely be left alone!)
• Always preview your post by looking at it in your browser before submitting it
• Always end your message with text that should look "normal" so as to make sure that you haven't forgotten to terminate a quote or an attribute

-mike- (breaking most of my own rules...)

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:02 PM

test - because this thread is shorter than the most recent html test thread ...

this test here. and more test

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Jacob Bloom
Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:18 PM

Mike Robertson said:

Always preview your post by looking at it in your browser before submitting it

Is it possible to do that without creating a new text file and starting up a new browser job to view it?

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: AKS
Date: 30 Dec 99 - 01:42 AM

The Irish Lyrics Archive Message Board at http://talk.to/irishlyrics has a 'preview' button besides the 'submit message' one. Would it be difficult to install a similar one here too? I think it would be of assistance to us not so very familiar with the inner essence of html.

Arto K Sallinen, joensuu.fi

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: _gargoyle
Date: 30 Dec 99 - 02:19 AM

A "Preview"....."test" button would eliminate most of my double/triple postings......

(all postings which Joe graciously cleans up....leaving the original first-post with its warts, pimples, and irregularities....intact)

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From:
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 08:03 PM

Click here

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Snuffy
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:16 PM

  If you want your submission to appear exactly as you laid it out    

with gaps between lines         or inset lines, then all you have to do is type  	
<PRE>
  	 at the very start of the message  BUT DON'T FORGET TO PUT   	
</PRE>
  						 AT THE END !!!!!  

---

  The only thing is, it will come out in Courier typeface - as above.   	But if you change       <PRE>         to something like:  
<PRE STYLE="FONT: 12PT TIMES ROMAN">
  		 then it will come out like this (adjust the font name and size to taste)  BUT STILL DON'T FORGET TO PUT </PRE> AT THE END -  AND MAKE SURE YOU CLOSE YOUR "QUOTES" AS WELL!!!!!  

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Snuffy
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:39 PM

Forget that message. It worked on both Explorer and Navigator from an HTML file on my hard disk, but obviously doesn't work on the Mudcat server.

Sorry I spoke :-<

Subject: RE: Help: Quote Marks in HTML Tags
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 06:55 PM

Hey, Gargoyle - I've started to realize that not all multiple posts were done by a stuttering mouseclicker. Over the last few weeks, I've been leaving the last in a series of duplicate posts, in case the first one was incorrect and the last one was the perfect edition. I've usually tried to check for that in the past, but I don't read duplicate messages carefully before deleting if there's more than about 3 of them....
I try, but I have been known to goof occasionally.
-Joe Offer-