The Essential Folk Recordings

Subject: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 04:01 PM

THis is not another thread about the "best" anything. It's just that when I was looking at the thread on what portion of your record collection is Traditional, I was reminded that traditional music, after all, is what all this stuff sprang from. Right now, there's probably more wonderful recordings available (on CD) than at any time in history. Sadly, I fear that most folkies have never encountered them, and are apt never to hear them. Singers like Paul Clayton, Sam Hinton, Richard Dyer-Bennett, Grayson and Whittier, Frank Warner, Harry McClintock.......

I think it might be appropriate for some of us, particular revered elder folk statesmen (read old farts) to suggest records that they think are important, with a strong emphasis on traditional performances. I'd be happy to kick this off, if my other personna (head of Camsco Records) won't put people off; it's quite true that I sell these records, but I only carry things that I think are worth-while. Any thoughts, anyone?

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 05:13 PM

THANK YOU DICK! (man, I wish I knew how to do those REALLY large letters...maybe it's a good thing I don't)
Not sure if 53 is truly an old fart yet, but my musical tastes have run that way since I was 15 so I guess it doesn't matter.

Blues: Big Bill Broonzy (pre-1937), Robert Johnson
Ballads: Horton Barker and Ewan MacColl
Country: McGee Brothers, Blue Sky Boys, Carter Family, Delmore Brothers, Monroe Brothers, Stanley Brothers
Bad Cold: Smith Brothers
Songwriters: Peggy Seeger, Bob Dylan (pre-1966), Bob Coltman, John Prine.
Pickers: John Hurt, Doc Watson, Buell Kazee, Maybelle Carter, Sam McGee.

Verrrry Subjective!

Rick

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 05:33 PM

My favorite CD of the decade is Stephen Wade's selection of marvelous material from the Library of Congress Folk Music Archive, entitled something like: A Treasury of Folksongs from the Library of Congress (I don't have it right here), released by Rounder. Pushing up close behind that one in my "favorites" are the various Yazoo re-issues of early recordings from the 20s and 30s. These have been released in two-volume sets: Times Ain't Like They Used to Be, Vols. 1 and 2 (now with two more CDs added -- Vols. 3 and 4); Hard Times Come Again No More, Vols. 1 and 2; the superb Gospel song collection: How Can I Keep from Singing, Vols. 1 and 2 (recently extended with two new CDs titled The Half Ain't Never Been Told, Vols 1 and 2; plus several similar collections. These CDs give one a great library of early recordings of mostly traditional material, and the performances are wonderful! They are available from Shanachie, or, better still, get them from our own Mudcat Shop via Camsco Music, which gives a percentage of the profit to help keep the Mudcat going. Gargoyle may not approve, but web sites do cost money, and this is a painless way to help.

Rounder has also released a number of CDs from Alan Lomax's field recordings. There are too many to list them all here, but don't overlook the CDs of worksongs sung by prisoners in the southern prisons recorded by the Lomaxes (John and Alan) back in the 30s. These are very important documents and offer some really splendid music.

And that's just for starters, kids.

Grandpa Sandy

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 06:49 PM

Well Hell, Sandy! If yer goin' for "anthologies" you don't have to make those "hard choices", like I just did. Here's a couple of others though.

From Smithsonian Folkways: Autoharp Styles. American Banjo-Scruggs Style.
Electra put out a fabulous 4 or 5 record set many years ago...very well rounded. Would love to know if it's on CD.
By the way. Gargoyle might not like the commercial aspect, but I bet he approves of the music choices so far.
Rick

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: northfolk/al cholger
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 09:30 PM

Rick, The Electra collection, which was titled the Folk Box, was a four record set, each side dedicated to a particular style of traditional music, I have the remnants, including the booklet that contained all of the verses as well as usefull background information and appropriate artwork. I have requested in previous posts to find any remaining recordable copies. I have also searched all sort of music sources, to no avail. In my opinion it is the most representative collection of Folk music that has been put together, someone should reissue it.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 09:48 PM

No arguments there Northfolk. I'm missing one of the records. OK stupid question: Is there still an Electra Records? Why wouldn't they put it out on CD? It's quite exceptional.
Rick

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Mudjack
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 11:41 PM

It was the Elektra Folk Box that educated me to the fact that folk music was real and not a pop time of Kingston Trio and Limeliters. I still have my Folk Box and the worn out scratchy contents.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: arkie
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 12:26 AM

The Bristol Sessions and though not technically folk but rather traditional or old time country any and all by Dave Macon, Charlie Poole, and Jimmie Rodgers and for folk music any or all of Pete Seeger.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 03:56 AM

Yeah, I don't understand what's the problem with Elektra, but they've reissued very little from their extensive collection of folk music. they've got most of the Judy Collins and Phil Ochs albums on CD, and maybe some Paxton, but what else? What a shame!
Another Elektra box set that was excellent was Bleecker and MacDougal, the Jac Holzman Years with one to several cuts each from Fred Neil, Mark Spoelstra, Bruce Murdoch, Dave Van Ronk, Geoff Muldaur, Eric Von Schmidt, Hamilton Camp, Patrick Sky, Josh White, The Even Dozen Jug Band, Danny Kalb, Koerner/Ray/Glover, Oscar Brand, Will Holt, Tom Paley & Peggy Seeger, Eric Weissberg, Dick Rosmini, The Limeliters, Glenn Yarbrough, Erik Darling, The Folksingers, The Travellers 3, Judy Henske, Tom Paxton, Phil Ochs, Judy Collins, Tom Rush, Fred Neil, Richard Fariña, and David Blue. I figure that's a pretty good list of the folk musicians who were recording on Elektra in the 1960's - where are those recordings now?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Stewie
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 07:15 AM

The 4 volumes on Prestige/Folklore - 'All Kinds of Folks','New City Blues', Roots and Branches' and 'Singing Out Loud'- cover not dissimilar territory to the missing Elektra set: Rush, Van Ronk, Redpath, Von Schmidt, Rambling Jack, Seeger, Larry and Hank, Jesse Fuller etc.

I reckon the Harry Smith 'Anthology of American Folk Music' Smithsonian/Folkways box set is pretty well indispensible.

A great companion to the 'Anthology' is the 4 CD box set on Sony - 'Roots N' Blues: The Retrospective 1925-1950'.

Also on Sony (Columbia Legacy) the 2 CD set 'The Essential Bill Monroe and His Blue Grass Boys 1945-1949' is exactly what the title says.

For early Cajun music, the 3 volume series issued by the Country Music Foundation - 'Le Gran Mamou', 'Raise Your Window' and 'Gran Prairie - is indispensible. The Foundation's 'Bristol Sessions' double CD, which was mentioned above, is essential to any old-time collection.

For early Hawaiian, a great starting point would be the 2 volumes in the Rounder Vintage Hawaiian Music series - 'Steel Guitar Masters 1928-1934 and 'The Great Singers 1928-1934' - and the 'Hawaiian Steel Guitar Classics 1927-1938' on Arhoolie.

Sandy mentioned the excellent Yazoo 2000 reissue compilations by Richard Nevins. These include the 3 volume 'Before the Blues' and the magnificent 2 volume 'Music of Kentucky'. County also has a wonderful reissue series with regional volumes, such a the 2 vol 'Mississippi String Bands', the 2 vol 'Echoes of the Ozarks', 'Rural String Bands of Tennessee', Rural String Bands of Virginia', and 'Old-Time Mountain Ballads' and 'Old-Time Mountain Guitar'. There are volumes devoted to Uncle Dave Macon, Grayson and Whitter, Eck Robertson, Charlie Poole etc. Another magnificent CD is Roscoe Holcomb 'The High Lonesome Sound' Smithsonian/Folkways.

Blues anthologies abound. The best are to be found on labels like Rounder, Yazoo, Indigo, Catfish, Chess (MCA), Columbia Roots N' Blues series, RCA Bluebird reissue series and Arhoolie.

For gospel, a good starting point would be the Tony Heibut 2 CD compilation 'The Gospel Sound' on Columbia and the tremendous 'American Primitive Vol 1: Raw Pre-War Gospel' on John Fahey's Revenant label.

Cheers, Stewie.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Stewie
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 07:19 AM

In the last para of my above posting, it should read 'Tony Heilbut' not 'Heibut'. His book 'The Gospel Sound: Good News and Bad Times' is also well worth a read.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Easy Rider
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 09:15 AM

Speaking of Elektra folk albums, there were two great anthologies issued in the 60s, "The Blues Project" and "The Singer/Songwriter Project". Have you heard these?

Sandy, Rick: Since WHEN do we care what Gargoyle thinks about our choices of favorite records or what we choose to discuss on the Mudcat? Let's NOT be afraid to speak, for fear of his/her criticism.

EZR

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 10:18 AM

" The Blues Project" on Electra was one of my favorite all time recordings. Truth be told - I took back my first copy of the LP right after I had heard Dave Ray performing "Fixin' to Die" because I knew the LP had to be warped or something. It sounded so strange to me . The salesman convinced me that what I was hearing was the sound of a slide guitar. I'd never heard one before. I can still get chills when I hear Geoff Muldar singing "Devil Got My Woman". That record opened my ears to country blues and got me to check out a lot of other artists that I love today. Years later I bought a second copy because I knew I'd worn the grooves off of my first copy. Here's hoping that Electra opens up the vaults and releases a lot more music from the Great Folk Scare.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 10:47 AM

Boy, these are great! EasyRider, I loved the "Blues Project", but don't know about the "Singer Songwriter Project". Who's on it?
By the way I assure you that I don't care a whit what ANYONE thinks of my musical choices. My reference to Gargoyle was strictly ironic. That's the problem with computers; humour may be the intent, but without facial expressions, it can fall flatter than yesterdays pancakes.
Rick

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 10:48 AM

I can't believe that in this august company a minnow like me gets to suggest Woody Guthrie, but perhaps, of the many, many choices, This Land is Your Land, Smithsonian Folkways, Vol.1 of the Asch Recordings is essential.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 11:41 AM

OOPS - I forgot to include the boxed set by The Weavers - "Wasn't That A Time"

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 11:49 AM

Good on you, Wesley S. Can't go past "The Weavers" for American
folk. I have 6 or 7 of their LPs (vinyl, for the young 'uns)

And for Australian, "The Wayfarers", recorded from time to time
over the last 40 years (not a bad stretch for one group).

Shimbo

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 11:58 AM

Stewie, you are so right! I mentioned the Kentucky CDs from Shanachie/Yazoo in an earlier thread. Wonderful!

My mention of Gargoyle referred to my suggestion that folks could obtain many of these recordings via Mudcat from Camsco. GG has complained about commercializing the 'Cat. He may hate T-shirts, but I'm sure he could make some very significant contributions to this list of favorite recordings.

Sandy

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 12:16 PM

And I, for one, hope he does. See...I'm into the Christmas spirit!
As To Guthrie: I think the Library of Congress interview with Alan Lomax is probably the best bet. Some wonderful harp playing (that really WAS his forte as far as I'm concerned) and really interesting insights into his personality (and Lomax's). Is it on Smithsonian Folkways?
To Peter T: You, a minnow? Get a hold of yourself man! That's as misleading as when Banjo Bonnie (our resident vamp) portrays herself as the shy "Little Neophyte"! In the world of valid traditional music opinions, you are at least a TUNA!
Happy Holidays,
Rick

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: bob schwarer
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 12:16 PM

For Cajun get some of the Balfa Brothers work.

Bob S.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 01:38 PM

Well, canned tuna perhaps (no dolphins were netted). Not a creep question: what is the essential Rev. Gary Davis album?
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: jabjo
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 04:25 PM

Is this thread deliberatly American only?

The 20 volume Voice Of The People, would seem a better place to start...

jabjo

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 04:36 PM

Rick,

The artists on "The Singer-Songwriter Project" LP were Richard Farina, Patrick Sky, David Cohen (the future David Blue), and Montreal's own Bruce Murdoch (who was all of 17 years old at the time).

Mike Regenstreif

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Stewie
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 05:13 PM

Wesley S,

Koerner, Ray and Glover's 5 contributions to Elektra's 'Blues Project' are added as bonus tracks on Red House records reissue of KR&G's '(Lots More)Blues, Rags and Hollers'. Red House has now reissued all KR&G's Elektra material on 3 CDs, with a handful of previously unissued tracks - magnificent!

Polydor released a 2 CD anthology of The Blues Project. I haven't heard it, but it is available on special order from Tower Records at about $US25. It covers stuff from 1964-72.

Cheers, Stewie.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Doctor John
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 05:36 PM

Northfolk, I have the complete 4 disc Elektra "Folk Box" in very good condition even though it dates back over 30 years. Probably because I bought the records of the artists I liked so it tended to become somewhat redundent. Let me know what you want. Dr John

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 06:23 PM

Thanks Mike. Now I remember it. Happy Holidays.
Rick

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 06:53 PM

This thread, as opposed to the "Best" or "Top" things, is bringing up some outstanding material. Sandy won't mention it of course, but I was just reading the write up on a new issue from Folk-Legacy called, "Ballads and Songs of Tradition." From the reading, I'd say this might fall exactly into the "Essential" category. I'm making it my next order from F-L. Its on the back of the catalog, but I don't see it on the website. Is it there Sandy? Anyway, it lookks great.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 07:14 PM

I think any serious singer/student should be exposed to the 'old' stuff..meaning the Child ballads and similar stuff....don't know how many of the old 33s of Ewan MacColl, A.L. Lloyd, and the Kennedy-Lomax collections, etc. are on CD yet...but they should be....I could go downstairs and make a pile a foot high of 'records' everyone should have!

The School of Scottish Studies is another set that blows me away...

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 07:54 PM

"Blow Boys Blow" Ewan MacColl and A.L. Lloyd, Tradition label. Shetland Park, 27 Congress St. Salem MA 01970 USA

"Sea Songs & Shanties" traditional English Sea Songs and Shanties from the last days of sail Bob Roberts, The Copper family, Harry Cox, Fishermans Group Cadgwith, Cornwall. Tom Brown. (1994)Saydisc Records Chipping Manor, The Chipping, Wotton-under edge, Glos. GL12 7AD England

I think these would be the definitive Traditional Sea Songs for you..Some of the words I know are not in em, so you can play them in the vicinity of Ladies and Children. Yours Aye, Very Cordially. Dave

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 09:57 PM

COMMERCIAL INTERRUPTION!

Camsco can get just about any in-print recording you wish, whether or not we have it in stock. Try it..we're keeping our prices competitive. And let me know that you're with Mudcat--a piece of the action will go to Mudcat whether or not it's listed in the Mudcat Shop.

A recording that I recommend highly is a new release of a Carl Sandburg album originally recorded in 1951. It was one of the first recordings I ever heard that wasn't "slicked up", a la Burl Ives and the Almanacs.

Track list:
Boll Weevil Song
Careless Love
In De Vinter Time
Moanish Lady
Foggy, Foggy Dew
I wish I Was a Little Bird
I'm Sad and I'm Lonely
Cigarettes Will Spoil Your Life
The Horse Named Bill
Jay Gould's Daughter
He's Gone Away
Casey Jones
I Ride an Old Paint
Man Goin' Roun'
Gallows Song (Sam Hall)
We'll Roll Back the Prices
The Good Boy

Caroline Paton endorses it, too.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 10:39 PM

Jabjo: Absolutely! I've only read about them so far, but I'm going to order the whole lot from Camsco/Mudcat. Let me also add "The Long Harvest" recordings, and the Caedmon series of British field recordings (probably not on CD). I was initially annoyed by them because they would includde only a few verses of the original, to give us the tune and the style, then they printed the entire text. The result, however, meant the inclusion of many more examples of fine traditional singing than would have been possible, had they included the entire performance.

I'd have to include almost any of Ewan MacColl's albums, but especially Songs of the Two Rebellions on Folkways (that may not be the exact title) and the Prestige Best of Ewan MacColl on which he sang "Here's to You, Tom Brown" so well. For heaven's sake, don't overlook the new CD of Jeannie Robertson on Rounder, one of the "Portrait" series of Lomax recordings (along with Margaret Barry and Fred McDowell).

Catspaw, m'lad. The Ballads and Songs of Tradition isn't on the market yet, but soon will be. I put it in the catalog because we needed to announce it, but won't be printing another catalog very bloody soon. Too costly. I can only ask that you check in on the web site now and then. It should show up there by the end of January, if the creek don't rise. Franks Proffitt's CD should follow soon after. Still working on that one. Other mecessary irons took up too much space in our very small fire. Thanks for the plug!

Sandy

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 24 Dec 99 - 12:45 AM

And pardon the typos!

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Dec 99 - 01:21 AM

Dammit Sandy...Would you stop that? There are so many typos in this joint that nobody even notices and yours are virtually non-existent! I'm going to call and have Caroline smack you around with a Larrivee soundhole!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Dec 99 - 02:07 PM

Sandy...amen to most of the list you posted!...I managed to acquire 8 of the 10 Caedmon series(and the "Songs of the Two Rebellions")..and have treasured them for years..Ewan MacColl once touted the "Long Harvest" series to me, but I was never able to find them...(I did get all 3 "Blood & Roses" though)..and most of the Washington series of "English & Scottish Popular Ballads".....

from this country I have an old 10" 33 1/3 of Frank Warner..wonder if THAT will ever make CD!...and 10" LPs of Richard Dyer-Bennet...

some of Prestige-Internationals old stuff oughta be re-released, also....

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 10:45 PM

I'm reviving this old thread, as it seems to be the most recent and relevant in which to ask again about the Elektra Folk Box set. I haven't had access to this since about 1980, and would really like to know, firstly, if this is the one that contains a field recording of an (un-named?) banjo-player giving a wonderfully energetic performance of "Pretty Polly" and, secondly, (predictably) if it has yet been re-issued on CD. Many thanks to you lucky owners of the set in anticipation.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: GUEST,Anonny Mouse
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 11:47 PM

Quote-Mudjack:"It was the Elektra Folk Box that educated me to the fact that folk music was real and not a pop time of Kingston Trio and Limeliters. I still have my Folk Box and the worn out scratchy contents."

Spose y'all know where this is going, but hold onto yer screams for a bit--please. Maybe not the universal opinion here but I don't think you can simply dismiss the ENTIRE "pop" genre if that's what you wanna put the KT, Limeliters (hey at least you know how to SPELL their name) PP&M, etc. in EXCLUSIVELY. Now I'm in over my head a bit on this one; first, I have no idea what y'all listened to across the Pond (other than the aforementioned Lonnie Donnegan and buskers, etc.); also, I don't own or haven't heard of a lot of others mentioned in this thread. And I got nothing against giving the likes of Dave Macon, the Weavers, Gateway Singers, Almanac Singers, Burl Ives, Woody Guthrie, and some "folk boom" folks like Eric Anderson, Richard & Mimi Farina, Baez, Dylan, Ochs, Paxton, Von Ronk, Ian & Sylvia their due. Also glad to see someone mentioned the "Brothers" acts: Delmore, Stanley and Monroe. Bluegrass too--Earl, Dillards, etc.

But I think you have to include the Kingston Trio-"most influencial album" debate aside (and in spite of all the crap me and Martin Gibson took from that shouldda taught me to shut up but I'm a slow learner and stubborn too); there were other so-called "pop" groups-not just the KT "wannabees" that had some chops, good playing and singing/original song-writing:-yeah-the Limeliters (Lou Gottlieb was no one's fool-and penned some decent stuff himself). PP&M is still around and performing, although I read where Mary is battling leukemia. Just because they were popular doesn't automatically make them poison. And the KT had a pretty darn good songwriter too in its second incarnation-John Stewart-who more than one has called today's Woody Guthrie (and not just some buncha sycophants).

Now I'm no one note Johnny, or lookin' to start up with a buncha folks again. I have my personal reasons which I mentioned before for being a fan of who I'm a fan of. So if you wanna bash my post, fine-no skin off my nose. Like I said before too, it's all words in the ether. And if you wanna include Hawaiian in the mix, how can you ignore Gabby Pahanui? And I hear his son's no slouch either. Guess it's all in how you wanna define "folk music"-and my definition may be a bit broader and younger than some here.

I will say the pop folk era at least stateside spewed out a lot of junk not worth paying much attention to...may've even sold well in the stores. Frankly-I never "got" the whole Dylan thing beyond his lyrics and early stuff. Isnt much on a guitar, and vocally to my ear mostly sucked. OK-had my little say.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Artful Codger
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 12:19 AM

On the Library of Congress Archive of American Music recording Anglo-American Ballads there are two versions of "Pretty Polly". The second is by Pete Steele, who accompanies himself on banjo. Is this the one you're thinking of?

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 07:48 AM

Sorry I started Mr Mouse off again with my quite specific question. Thanks Artful Codger, but the point is I have no idea who it was cos I don't have access to the box set any more. I'm hoping someone will reply to tell me it is available on disk, to answer my second question.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 08:33 AM

A little google has told me it's The Dillards who do "Pretty Polly" on that set.

EKL 9001 - The Folk Box - Various Artists [1964] (4-LPs) Issued in mono only. A boxed set of 4 discs with a 48 page booklet , put together by Robert Shelton with the assistance of Folkways Records. This box was issued in the UK as EUK 2512/2.

Sorry to be a bother.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: GUEST,Anonny Mouse
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 05:51 PM

Quote Garry G.:"Sorry I started Mr Mouse off again with my quite specific question. Thanks Artful Codger, but the point is I have no idea who it was cos I don't have access to the box set any more. I'm hoping someone will reply to tell me it is available on disk, to answer my second question."

Your post is patronizing, and unnecessarily rude. There were plenty of other bones for you to pick on in what I wrote. I thought this was a "forum"-which means a diversity of opinion, viewpoint, personality and "take" on something. That was mine. Your "apology" for what I posted I find insulting. I didn't post to please you or anyone else for that matter. FWIW. Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 06:12 PM

Mouse, it's that snobbish, elitist, holier than thou folk purist thing again that dictates that if it is poorly sung by someone with no teeth, and no one made a nickel off it, it's the only folk music that mattered.

The recordings in 1927 by Ralph Peer of the Carter family were the essential folk recordings. Those were "essential."

All of this other stuff all came after. The longevity of the Carter Family music really trumps all other Americans who came later. As far as English folk music goes, the first guy who brayed with a lute was the most essential.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: johnross
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 11:08 PM

Many of the various anthologies and various artists collections are great ways to start a collection, but I want to offer a list of essential performers who ought ought to form the core of an American traditional folk music collection. I don't know what's currently in print, so I'm not naming specific LPs or CDs.

I'm not ignoring music from other places, but that's another list.

I'm also leaving out a lot of singer-songwriters. Again, that's another list, as is the list of essential blues singers.

Just for starters:

(in more-or-les alphabetical order; NOT order of importance)

Joan Baez
The Beers Family
Hank Bradley
Guy Carawan
The Carter Family
Paul Clayton
Judy Collins   (early albums)
Elizabeth Cotten
Jimmie Driftwood
Rambling Jack Elliott
Bob Gibson
The Golden Ring (The first Folk-Legacy album)
Woody Guthrie
Larry Hanks
Sam Hinton
The Holy Modal Rounders
Mississippi John Hurt
Cisco Houston
The New Lost City Ramblers
Obray Ramsey
Jean Ritchie
Jimmie Rodgers
Mike Seeger
Peggy Seeger
Pete Seeger
Kilby Snow
Happy Traum
Dave Van Ronk
Frank Warner
Doc Watson
Hedy West

I would also include the Harry Smith Folkways Anthology, the live recordings from the Newport, Philadelphia, Fox Hollow and San Diego Folk Festivals, the Lomax Southern Journey series, and a collection of Freedom Songs such as the Smithsonian "Voices of the Civil Rights Movement" set.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:22 AM

Sorry GUEST,Anonny Mouse, I wasn't referring to the content of your post so much as regretting opening up such a sensitive issue again - in a thread from 1999! - just to ask a question which I could answer myself if I just looked around the Web. I thought about starting another thread, but thought there's already too much precious space wasted on the Mudcat servers - and then wasted some more anyway. I regret the tone of my message, and I apologise.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:36 AM

Fascinating thread. I think it's maybe down to which artists inspired us individually.

The first real folk style finger picker I ever saw was Josh White. I was twelve years old and after that i didn't want to play like Hank Marvin any more - I wonder if anybody else found him as inspirational as I did.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 03:06 PM

There has been a lot of mention in this thread of Elektra's Folk Box. It sounds like a wonderful collection - I wonder if there's any chance it will be reissued. A number of Elektra albums are finally being released by Collectors' Choice Music and Rhino Handmade, so maybe we'll see the Folk Box yet. It would be nice to see Elektra's 1984 Bleeker and MacDougal collection on CD, too - my cassettes don't work very well any more.
Click Here for a list of the recordings in the Folk Box. Ciscohouston.com also has some interesting information on the Folk Box. Here's a part of it:

The Folk Box An anthology, issued by Elektra (EKL 9001) in 1964. A 48 page booklet with complete lyrics and a lengthy (and exceedingly pompous) essay by Robert Shelton was included. That essay is available Here. Side 1: Songs Of The Old World And Migration To The New Side 2: Settling, Exploring And Growing In The New World Side 3: Work Songs Side 4: Many Worshippers, One God Side 5: Country Music - From Ballads To Bluegrass Side 6: Nothing But The Blues Side 7: Of War, Love And Hope Side 8: Broadsides, Topical Songs, Protest Songs Track Listing: Cynthia Gooding: Greensleeves Ian Campbell Folk Group: Down In The Coal Mine Ewan MacColl: Geordie Irish Ramblers: Whiskey In The Jar Susan Reed: Irish Famine Song Ed McCurdy: Gypsy Laddie Jean Redpath: Tae The Weavers African Traveling Song Navajo Night Chant Gene Bluestein: Skada At America New Lost City Ramblers: When First Unto This Country Susan Reed: Springfield Mountain Ed McCurdy: Good Old Colony Times Oscar Brand: Jefferson And Liberty Pete Seeger: Darling Cory Jack Elliott: Jesse James Leadbelly: Rock Island Line Woody Guthrie: Oregon Trail Erik Darling: Swannanda Tunnel Ed McCurdy: Kentucky Moonshine Alabama School Children: Green Green Rocky Road Leadbelly: Pick A Bale Of Cotton Seafarers Chorus: Haul On The Bowline Pete Seeger: Paddy Works On The Railway Harry Jackson: I Ride An Old Paint Cisco Houston: Zebra Dun Horace Sprott: Field Holler Koerner, Ray & Glover: Linin' Track Willer Turner: Now Your Man Done Gone Josh White: Timber Negro Prisoners: Grizzly Bear Marilyn Child & Glenn Yarbrough: Mary Had A Baby Josh White: Jesus Gonna Make Up My Dyin Bed Blind Willie Johnson: Dark Was The Night Judy Collins: Twelve Gates To The City Theodore Bikel: A Zemer Glenn Yarbrough: Wayfaring Stranger Ed McCurdy: Simple Gifts Leadbelly: Meetin' At The Building Bob Gibson: You Can Tell the World Christian Tabernacle Church: Down By The Riverside Willy Clancy: Sligo Reel/Mountain Road Eric Weissberg: Old Joe Clark Clarence Ashley: Coo Coo Bird Tom Paley: Shady Grove Eric Weissberg & Marshall Brickman: Flop-Eared Mule Jean Ritchie: Nottamun Town Doc Watson and others: Amazing Grace Doc Watson: Cripple Creek The Dillards: Pretty Polly George Pegram & Walter Parham: Yellow Rose Of Texas Dián And The Greenbriar Boys: Green Corn The Dillards: Old Man At The Mill Sonny Terry: Lost John Big Bill Broonzy: I Wonder When I'll Get To Be Called a Man Leadbelly: Black Snake Moan Blind Lemon Jefferson: See That My Grave Is Kept Clean Hally Wood: House Of The Rising Sun Mark Spoelstra: France Blues New Lost City Ramblers: Carter Blues Dave Ray: Slappin' On My Black Cat Bone Dave Van Ronk: Don't Leave Me Here Josh White: Southern Exposure Ed McCurdy: John Brown's Body Frank Warner: Virginia's Bloody Soil Theodore Bikel: Two Brothers Judy Collins: Masters of War Theodore Bikel: Blow The Candles Out Jean Redpath: Love Is Teasin' Clarence Ashley and Doc Watson: Sally Ann Jean Ritchie: Little Devils Limeliters: The Hammer Song Woody Guthrie: This Land Is Your Land Pete Seeger, Almanac Singer With Audience: Which Side Are You On? New Lost City Ramblers: No Depression In Heaven Woody Guthrie: Talking Dust Bowl Big Bill Broonzy: Black Brown And White Oscar Brand: Talking Atomic Blues Hamilton Camp: Girl From The North Country Judy Collins: The Dove Tom Paxton: High Sheriff Of Hazard Phil Ochs: The Thresher Pete Seeger: We Shall Overcome Note: The note attached to Cisco's performance: Another side of cowboy life is revealed here by the late Cisco Houston, longtime traveling companion of Woody Guthrie. This is a delightful ballad about a practical joke at the expense of a newcomer to the cattle country, but, as the story will reveal, the greenhorn is not to be outsmarted. Folklorists have differed about the origins of this song. John Lomax ascribed it to a Negro camp cook on the Pecos River, but Kenneth S. Goldstein believes it is of white cowboy authorship.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 06:33 PM

As I read the early postings I was stirred by the memories but the ones from johnross & Joe Offer really hit home. All those names, the songs I used to hear, etc etc. I used to have a few of the records but they've all gone.

Another realisation that hit me (probably inevitable when you come across such a concentrated list) is the skew; to say "bias" might give the wrong impression. A cursory perusal reveals very few women and almost no "ethnics" for want of a better descriptor. As an old fart myself I suspect what several of us have revealed is the context in which we grew from 15 to 25 years old, when (for myself at least) things were different, in terms of gender-equality and ethnic visibility, from what they are now. I wonder what those 15-25 year olds of today will include in their lists in 40 years' time.

I imagine many of the records mentioned above will always have the same sort of status as the items in collections like those of the collectors from the 19th century and earlier. It would be a great pity if there were no archival copies of them and the important subsequent items from later contexts.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 11:24 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:29 AM

I picked up a good condition Elektra Records Folk Box Set a couple of years ago and considering all the interest in this set I'm considering copying it onto my pc, and somehow sharing it.

Seems a shame for such a good set to become obsolete.

Will update when Set copied

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 12:02 PM

Nobody has mentioned Topic's classic industrial folksong album, The Iron Muse. I have always maintained a 33/45 player as well as CD, so I still play the original disc; but it will surely have been reissued on CD. An essential record. Same applies, re playing, to my Argo 12-set of Peggy & Ewan singing British & American versions of the Child canon, The Long Harvest; & the 2-record set on same label, The Paper Stage, song originals of Shax plays ~~ King Leir & His Three Daughters Taming of A Shrew, &c. & the School of Scottish Studies issues. I have them all on vinyl, but all available on CD I am sure.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:15 PM

Bought Lloyd's & MacColl's A Sailor's Garland today for £2 at a car boot sale in Bakewell. Excellent condition. Had an ice cream too. Now that's what I call a good day out.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: CET
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 10:38 PM

I guess,since no one has mentioned it for six years, that the Electra Folk Box is one with Nineveh and Tyre?

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 04:09 AM

The Folk Songs of Britain
This is a ten volume series of sound recordings, collected and edited by Peter Kennedy and Alan Lomax, assisted by Shirley Collins. It was originally published in America on Caedmon Records in 1961 and later in the UK on Topic in 1968 and 1970.
The songs were collected from traditional singers all over the British Isles by the editors mainly in England, and by Hamish Henderson in Scotland, and Séamus Ennis and Sean O'Boyle in Ireland. The series helped provide the repertoire and singing styles not only of luminaries like Ewan MacColl and Bert Lloyd, but those hundreds who came to the revival from the late 1950s onwards.
Expanded versions of some of the original LPs were released on CD by Rounder in 2000.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: GUEST,David Charles
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 05:39 AM

This is wrong on at least two counts. I've been right through the MacColl/Seeger record collection and there are no copies of The Folksongs of Britain in there.

Likewise, I doubt if Bert ever drew on them for any of the songs they sang.

Both singers in fact had easy access to most of the original recordings and both made their own tape copies, so neither would have needed to draw on the LPs.

As for providing singing styles, can anyone think of a single traditional singer from anywhere within Britain or Ireland who sounded remotely like they might have been a model for either MacColl or Lloyd? I certainly can't.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 06:50 AM

Sorry, David Charles? What is wrong? I have not mentioned MacColl/Seeger in connection with the Folk Songs of Britain series, but only, on an earlier post, with The Long Harvest and The Paper Stage. The last entry, which should have been in quotes, was copy/pasted from an online Folkopedia entry on the FSOB series - google it for yourself. All it says is that some other singers, e.g. MacColl & Lloyd, might have learnt something from them.

What, pray, is 'wrong' on any count? What precisely are you on about?

???????

~M~

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: GUEST,David Charles
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 07:42 AM

Your post says "The series helped provide the repertoire and singing styles not only of luminaries like Ewan MacColl and Bert Lloyd.............".

That is wrong. It isn't true.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 07:49 AM

I repeat ~~ it wasn't 'my' post ~~ it was copy/posted from Folkopedia, as I made clear in my last post. Your previous post also clearly accused me of having claimed that MacColl/Seeger were on, or involved with, The Folksongs of Britain series. I claimed no such thing.

It's no use trying irrelevant deceptions and obscurantist tactics, DC ~~ the fact is that you misread, & replied aggressively to, my first post - or, I think more likely, confused it with the previous one about The Long Harvest; and now you are wriggling. If I were you I should drop the matter before you make even more of a fool of yourself.

~M~

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: GUEST,David Charles
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 11:19 AM

Good God. What kind of a nutcase are you?

I did not misread your first post. Neither did I say that MacColl and Seeger were involved in the production of the Folksongs of Britain. I said that their record collection, which is nowadays housed in Ruskin College Library, does not include a set of those records. Ipso facto, it is highly unlikely that MacColl learned any songs directly from that set.

MacColl did, it is true, learn some of the songs which appeared on the Folksongs of Britain. However, since he recorded quite a few of these before 1961, it logically follows that he got them either directly from the singers themselves, or from the field recordings which were later used on the Caedmon set.

For that matter I can see nothing in any of your posts to indicate that you have quoted anything from Folkopedia. If your statement about MacColl and Lloyd learning songs and vocal styles has been copied from that source, then it would have been good manners to say so. Come to think of it, it would have been good scholarship as well.

As for accusations of aggression, I suggest you re-read your last posting.

This was my first visit to Mudcat, and I did so having been told that it was a good source of factual information and reasoned opinion. Your outbursts have shown this not to be true, and I shall be seeking my facts and opinions elsewhere in future.

Subject: RE: The Essential Folk Recordings
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 11:26 AM

"The last entry, which should have been in quotes, was copy/pasted from an online Folkopedia entry on the FSOB series - google it for yourself. All it says is that some other singers, e.g. MacColl & Lloyd, might have learnt something from them." 0650 a.m.

If you can't express yourself with reasonable clarity, whose fault is that? What was one supposed to make of "This is wrong on at least two counts. I've been right through the MacColl/Seeger record collection and there are no copies of The Folksongs of Britain in there", with no context provided about where you had done so.

I don't think you will be greatly missed from this forum if you do not visit it again. I had always believed that certain standards of courtesy to a host were expected of a "Guest".

Adieu