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BS: Damned cyclists

Bonzo3legs 16 Jun 18 - 04:12 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 18 - 04:18 AM
theleveller 16 Jun 18 - 05:07 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jun 18 - 05:07 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Jun 18 - 05:13 AM
Senoufou 16 Jun 18 - 05:35 AM
Stanron 16 Jun 18 - 06:31 AM
DaveRo 16 Jun 18 - 06:42 AM
Stanron 16 Jun 18 - 06:44 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 18 - 06:51 AM
DaveRo 16 Jun 18 - 07:09 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Jun 18 - 07:15 AM
Senoufou 16 Jun 18 - 07:25 AM
Mr Red 16 Jun 18 - 07:36 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jun 18 - 09:48 AM
Iains 16 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM
wysiwyg 16 Jun 18 - 11:02 AM
theleveller 16 Jun 18 - 11:09 AM
Raggytash 16 Jun 18 - 11:19 AM
punkfolkrocker 16 Jun 18 - 02:03 PM
Senoufou 16 Jun 18 - 03:58 PM
Thompson 16 Jun 18 - 06:00 PM
Senoufou 16 Jun 18 - 06:34 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Jun 18 - 07:45 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Jun 18 - 07:46 PM
Mr Red 17 Jun 18 - 03:28 AM
Acorn4 17 Jun 18 - 05:25 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Jun 18 - 05:46 AM
Will Fly 17 Jun 18 - 06:42 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Jun 18 - 07:44 AM
goatfell 17 Jun 18 - 07:53 AM
goatfell 17 Jun 18 - 07:59 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Jun 18 - 08:37 AM
Thompson 17 Jun 18 - 08:39 AM
Tattie Bogle 17 Jun 18 - 10:02 AM
Bonzo3legs 17 Jun 18 - 10:36 AM
FreddyHeadey 17 Jun 18 - 05:28 PM
Raedwulf 18 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM
Bonzo3legs 18 Jun 18 - 04:58 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Jun 18 - 08:17 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Jun 18 - 08:44 AM
Iains 18 Jun 18 - 08:50 AM
gillymor 18 Jun 18 - 09:18 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Jun 18 - 09:31 AM
gillymor 18 Jun 18 - 09:47 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Jun 18 - 09:53 AM
gillymor 18 Jun 18 - 09:58 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Jun 18 - 10:07 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Jun 18 - 10:13 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Jun 18 - 10:15 AM
Iains 18 Jun 18 - 10:22 AM
gillymor 18 Jun 18 - 10:38 AM
Nigel Parsons 18 Jun 18 - 10:41 AM
Nigel Parsons 18 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Jun 18 - 10:47 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Jun 18 - 11:17 AM
David Carter (UK) 18 Jun 18 - 11:31 AM
gillymor 18 Jun 18 - 11:37 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Jun 18 - 11:38 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Jun 18 - 11:42 AM
Thompson 18 Jun 18 - 02:06 PM
punkfolkrocker 18 Jun 18 - 03:00 PM
David Carter (UK) 18 Jun 18 - 04:51 PM
Thompson 18 Jun 18 - 04:58 PM
David Carter (UK) 18 Jun 18 - 05:00 PM
Manitas_at_home 19 Jun 18 - 04:05 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 04:21 AM
Thompson 19 Jun 18 - 05:06 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 08:21 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 08:23 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jun 18 - 08:32 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 09:12 AM
Senoufou 19 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 09:34 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jun 18 - 09:41 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jun 18 - 09:43 AM
Nigel Parsons 19 Jun 18 - 09:52 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 11:05 AM
Jon Freeman 19 Jun 18 - 11:35 AM
Manitas_at_home 19 Jun 18 - 11:39 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 11:58 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 12:00 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 12:03 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM
Senoufou 19 Jun 18 - 12:43 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Jun 18 - 02:00 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jun 18 - 02:35 PM
Senoufou 19 Jun 18 - 02:36 PM
FreddyHeadey 19 Jun 18 - 11:15 PM
FreddyHeadey 19 Jun 18 - 11:35 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jun 18 - 05:14 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 05:21 AM
Iains 20 Jun 18 - 05:27 AM
Mysha 20 Jun 18 - 06:10 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jun 18 - 06:37 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 07:44 AM
Bonzo3legs 20 Jun 18 - 08:08 AM
Jon Freeman 20 Jun 18 - 08:32 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jun 18 - 09:05 AM
punkfolkrocker 20 Jun 18 - 09:18 AM
Donuel 20 Jun 18 - 09:19 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 11:25 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jun 18 - 11:29 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 11:38 AM
Thompson 20 Jun 18 - 11:41 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 11:41 AM
Thompson 20 Jun 18 - 11:52 AM
punkfolkrocker 20 Jun 18 - 11:55 AM
Manitas_at_home 20 Jun 18 - 11:56 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jun 18 - 12:09 PM
Thompson 20 Jun 18 - 12:42 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 01:28 PM
Senoufou 20 Jun 18 - 01:41 PM
punkfolkrocker 20 Jun 18 - 01:44 PM
punkfolkrocker 20 Jun 18 - 01:47 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 02:08 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 02:09 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 18 - 02:12 PM
Iains 20 Jun 18 - 02:16 PM
Thompson 20 Jun 18 - 03:37 PM
Senoufou 20 Jun 18 - 03:51 PM
Jon Freeman 21 Jun 18 - 12:35 AM
SPB-Cooperator 21 Jun 18 - 08:52 AM
SPB-Cooperator 21 Jun 18 - 08:58 AM
Senoufou 21 Jun 18 - 09:04 AM
Manitas_at_home 21 Jun 18 - 09:07 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Jun 18 - 09:41 AM
Raggytash 21 Jun 18 - 10:27 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Jun 18 - 10:39 AM
leeneia 21 Jun 18 - 10:56 AM
Manitas_at_home 21 Jun 18 - 10:58 AM
Manitas_at_home 21 Jun 18 - 11:00 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Jun 18 - 11:46 AM
Tattie Bogle 22 Jun 18 - 07:44 AM
punkfolkrocker 22 Jun 18 - 12:23 PM
leeneia 22 Jun 18 - 02:12 PM
BobL 22 Jun 18 - 04:44 PM
Raggytash 22 Jun 18 - 04:59 PM
Donuel 22 Jun 18 - 05:13 PM
EBarnacle 22 Jun 18 - 08:18 PM
punkfolkrocker 22 Jun 18 - 10:38 PM
punkfolkrocker 22 Jun 18 - 10:52 PM
BobL 23 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM
Raedwulf 23 Jun 18 - 04:27 AM
Jon Freeman 23 Jun 18 - 10:47 AM
leeneia 23 Jun 18 - 11:34 AM
Iains 23 Jun 18 - 11:41 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Jun 18 - 12:14 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Jun 18 - 12:17 PM
Raggytash 23 Jun 18 - 12:34 PM
Iains 23 Jun 18 - 01:12 PM
Raggytash 23 Jun 18 - 01:53 PM
Senoufou 23 Jun 18 - 02:02 PM
Jon Freeman 23 Jun 18 - 02:11 PM
Raedwulf 23 Jun 18 - 02:31 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Jun 18 - 02:51 PM
Raedwulf 23 Jun 18 - 03:23 PM
Dave the Gnome 23 Jun 18 - 03:34 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Jun 18 - 03:45 PM
EBarnacle 23 Jun 18 - 06:22 PM
Senoufou 23 Jun 18 - 06:38 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 03:59 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Jun 18 - 05:58 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 06:10 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 06:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Jun 18 - 08:01 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 09:29 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 10:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Jun 18 - 11:13 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Jun 18 - 11:19 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 11:49 AM
punkfolkrocker 24 Jun 18 - 11:59 AM
Raggytash 24 Jun 18 - 12:00 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 12:03 PM
Raggytash 24 Jun 18 - 12:05 PM
Senoufou 24 Jun 18 - 12:11 PM
Iains 24 Jun 18 - 12:19 PM
punkfolkrocker 24 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM
punkfolkrocker 24 Jun 18 - 12:26 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 12:43 PM
Senoufou 24 Jun 18 - 12:52 PM
punkfolkrocker 24 Jun 18 - 01:25 PM
Senoufou 24 Jun 18 - 01:38 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 02:58 PM
Raedwulf 24 Jun 18 - 03:01 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 03:26 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Jun 18 - 04:12 PM
Senoufou 24 Jun 18 - 04:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Jun 18 - 04:41 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 05:26 PM
Raedwulf 24 Jun 18 - 05:43 PM
Iains 24 Jun 18 - 05:52 PM
EBarnacle 24 Jun 18 - 06:22 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Jun 18 - 06:23 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jun 18 - 06:25 PM
Iains 24 Jun 18 - 06:58 PM
BobL 25 Jun 18 - 03:22 AM
Iains 25 Jun 18 - 03:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jun 18 - 03:36 AM
Senoufou 25 Jun 18 - 03:39 AM
Mr Red 25 Jun 18 - 03:42 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 18 - 03:48 AM
Iains 25 Jun 18 - 04:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jun 18 - 04:25 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 18 - 04:29 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Jun 18 - 04:33 AM
Senoufou 25 Jun 18 - 04:36 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jun 18 - 05:00 AM
Iains 25 Jun 18 - 05:04 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 18 - 05:13 AM
Senoufou 25 Jun 18 - 05:18 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Jun 18 - 05:36 AM
Iains 25 Jun 18 - 05:40 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 18 - 05:43 AM
Iains 25 Jun 18 - 06:00 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jun 18 - 06:16 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 18 - 06:25 AM
Iains 25 Jun 18 - 06:38 AM
Raedwulf 25 Jun 18 - 06:45 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Jun 18 - 08:14 AM
Iains 25 Jun 18 - 08:25 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Jun 18 - 08:36 AM
Iains 25 Jun 18 - 08:58 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Jun 18 - 09:17 AM
FreddyHeadey 25 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jun 18 - 09:29 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Jun 18 - 09:48 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Jun 18 - 10:00 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Jun 18 - 10:53 AM
Manitas_at_home 25 Jun 18 - 02:18 PM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 18 - 03:38 PM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 18 - 04:10 PM
Raedwulf 25 Jun 18 - 04:32 PM
punkfolkrocker 25 Jun 18 - 05:31 PM
Bonzo3legs 26 Jun 18 - 02:37 AM
Manitas_at_home 26 Jun 18 - 03:29 AM
Mr Red 26 Jun 18 - 03:34 AM
Senoufou 26 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM
FreddyHeadey 26 Jun 18 - 03:56 AM
FreddyHeadey 26 Jun 18 - 03:57 AM
Raedwulf 26 Jun 18 - 05:17 AM
Nigel Parsons 26 Jun 18 - 10:12 AM
keberoxu 27 Jun 18 - 12:50 PM

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Subject: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 04:12 AM

Driving into London is now a nightmare - ridiculous 20mph speed limits, road humps galore and don't even get me started on notifiable cyclists.............London has been taken over by a infestation of cyclists who appear from nowhere riding very dangerously, 1000s of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 04:18 AM

I have driven in London precisely twice. I worked in Covent Garden for a while and got a company car with it. So my first drive was to get the car out of Central London and the second was to return it when I moved to another job.

Given the public transport systems in London, I would - personally - never choose to drive. To begin with, going a distance in London by tube is far faster. When I lived in Hatfield, for example, to get to Cecil Sharp House I would drive to and park at the end of the Underground line then travel in by public transport.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 05:07 AM

I can't see why you would want to drive in London - it's a great place to walk and has a far better public transport system than anywhere else in the UK. Amsterdam has the right policy for cars.

The problem we have with cyclist out here in the Yorkshire countryside is that they go out in packs, riding two or three abreast on narrow country lanes and not moving. I've nothing against cyclists as such - I'm one myself - but I do object to this antisocial behavior.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 05:07 AM

I always park at Stanmore and get the Jubilee Line. Driving in London is for the terminally insane.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 05:13 AM

Unfortunately my wife is disabled and cannot walk for more than 5 minutes without severe back pain, so public transport is not an option for her. We can only get to gigs where we can park very close by, which we were able to do last night for Human Cargo at Kings Place. My wife spoke to a very helpful man in Islington Council regarding blue badge holder parking in that area - it does vary accross London of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 05:35 AM

theleveller, it's the same here in Norfolk. Large groups cycling two or three abreast, or close together in a line, so that overtaking them is difficult. Also, with the many tight bends on our single-lane country roads, I worry about a motorist suddenly coming upon them and mowing them down.
In Norwich they often just go straight through red lights. I've never understood this, as it's so dangerous for them.

I do know London quite well, and agree that trying to drive there is much harder than either walking or using public transport. And I should imagine that finding parking for one's car is a nightmare!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:31 AM

Senoufou wrote: In Norwich they often just go straight through red lights. I've never understood this, as it's so dangerous for them.


The slower a cyclist moves the more wavy his path. The faster, the more stable. A cyclist is at his/her slowest as he/she starts to move. You don't have to be an urban cyclist for long to realise that the most dangerous thing you can do is start to cycle as a car alongside starts to move. You are weaving from side to side and the driver may not even be aware that you are there.

It's much safer to get as far in front of waiting traffic as possible when lights are on red. At UK traffic lights the stop line for cars is set well back from the junction. At some lights there is a green box in front of the white line for cyclists.

There are three advantages to waiting in front of cars at lights. First you can be seen, and second, by the time other traffic catches up you are past that first wobbly bit and moving in a straight line and third, you avoid being run down by cars turning left (in the UK) as you are trying to go straight ahead.

The safest place to wait is as far forward as possible. In this position the cyclist is able to see if these is any traffic approaching the lights in all directions. If there is no approaching traffic it is safest for the cyclist to start as soon as possible before other traffic moves.

Here in the UK it is not uncommon for pedestrians to cross a road when there is no approaching traffic. The motorists can't see what is coming around corners. The cyclist can see and makes decisions based on that. It is a sign of the lack of concern for the safety of cyclists that motorists complain about cyclists going through red lights. Get over it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: DaveRo
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:42 AM

There are dammned motorists too. My son cycles to work in London. Last year he was knocked off his bike - cracked shoulderblade, dislocated collarbone, cracked ribs - and he was lucky. Several trips to hospital and many lost days at work. We cancelled our holiday to help look after our grandson. The (elderly) driver was convicted for careless driving but neither he nor we got compensation for his moment of inattention.

He's back on his bike now, but frequently he tweets as he did last week:
Another horrible close pass on the bike yesterday. Getting the clip off the camera today, I see they're also speeding and in a bus lane. How are these idiots allowed a license?
(He did send the clip to the police.)

So please drive carefully - and keep cool.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:44 AM

May I apologise for the 'Get over it' bit at the end of the last post. I've no wish to be confrontational over this. I used to commute by bike in Manchester before I retired. I just wish to point out that what other people see as dangerous is, in fact, a safer option.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:51 AM

There are dammned motorists too ...for his moment of inattention.

Last year I was send on a speed awareness course, having been clocked at 34 mph in a 30 mph zone. In legal terms, that was speeding. But in reality it was much more 'driving without due care and attention': I was simply unaware that the limit had dropped for a distance of some 300m from 40, to 30, then back up.

In truth, I am far more worried about that lack of attention than I am about few mph too high. Lack of attention is the killer in the end.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: DaveRo
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 07:09 AM

I've done a speed awareness course - same reason. I found it interesting and valuable - I'd recommend it ;)

My employer was taken over in the '90s by an American company who wanted an IT business. They required everyone who had a company car to attend a safer-driving course - which was both classroom and on the road. How to spot hazards, where to position the car to avoid others' blind spots - that sort of thing. I still consciously use some of that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 07:15 AM

DaveRo - sorry to read of your son's accident, I hope that he has fully recovered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 07:25 AM

Well, going through a red light and crossing a junction is against the law apart from anything else. I don't think the Police would see it as 'safer'.

We're always extremely careful of cyclists when we're driving. My husband overtakes them only when he has a good,long view ahead, and gives them a very wide berth.

But of course, here we get horses being ridden or driven, mad swans walking down the middle of the road with their cygnets, huge agricultural machinery (combine harvesters and so on) massive animal feed trucks and goodness knows what else. So we always 'proceed with caution' while trying not to poodle along annoying the folk behind us.

Sorry to hear about your son's accident DaveRo. Nasty thing to have happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 07:36 AM

I once described Lundun(innit) as "rush day". To which my converstionalist opined "rush week!"

The traffic is worse than when that conversation occurred.

The only thing worse than cyclists is impatient motorists who give them a wide berth, regardless of oncoming traffic. It is hard to use a bicycle as a murder weapon. Cars - ideally suited and used with threats ever bloody day! By far too many motorists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 09:48 AM

Well I commuted to work on my bike in London for years. I worked in Walthamstow and a couple of miles of each ride involved either the North Circular or the hellish road up to Chingford past the old dog track from the Crooked Billet roundabout. I never had altercations with motorists. The keys to being safe in city traffic are to give yourself space (no riding in the gutter), don't allow motorists to overtake if there isn't room, take off from traffic lights as fast as you can (making sure that motorists also waiting for the lights can see you) and to move fast. Fast is safe on a bike. You need to practise looking behind without wobbling. You shouldn't break the law at traffic lights. If you face a long wait, or if the junction is staggered or complex, you can always dismount and walk your bike across at pedestrian signals. There's no shame in it. If you are being reasonable and staying within the law but drivers still get cross with you, that's their problem. They are bring a hundred times less environmentally friendly than you so you have the moral high ground. But always know when it's just best to get out of the way. And I never, ever wore Lycra. My Sam Brown belt was always with me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM

Where I live the lycra louts insist on riding two or three abreast on narrow mountain roads. They act as though they own the road. A pox be upon them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 11:02 AM

Stanron, on behalf of my cycling husband-- THANK YOU.

I'm reminded that most cyclists have driven cars and therefore understand the world and the mindset of the driver. Apparently far fewer drivers have logged many hours in the saddle, dodging the lethal weapons which are automobiles. So of course, misunderstanding runs rampant.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 11:09 AM

The Tour de Yorkshire seems to have given club cyclists the idea that they have the right to race or practice racing on the public roads whenever they feel like it. I was driving through our local small town recently, down a narrow street with cars parked each side and only room for one-way traffic, driving below the 20 mph speed limit, when a gang or them decided to overtake me on both sides of the car and when I objected they gave me various obscene signs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 11:19 AM

As a motorist I have a responsibility to drive carefully aware of other road users, I did this in my motorcycling days as I was aware that some drivers are oblivious of two wheeled transport.

However ........ responsibility works two ways ....... the number of stupid actions I have seen by cyclists is truly astonishing.

This week alone I have seen three cyclists riding down the wrong way down a one way road. This in the middle of a small but busy town.

On one occasion the owner of the bike hire shop was even watching him!!

Beggars belief.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 02:03 PM

It's my reasonable educated guess that many of those irresponsable inconsiderate complete chopes
who are a nuisance and hazard on bikes,
are exactly the same, but far more lethal to other road users, when they drive cars...

As a lifelong cyclist until arthritis buggered my feet and knees,
I laugh at ludicrous lycra and uncomfortable [false sense of safety] helmets...

What sort of dick pays over 2 grand for a bike, and hundreds of quid for the full lycra fancy dress,
to pretend to be a champion race cyclist on dry weather weekends...???

The sort with a fancy company car, and 4 wheel drive for the mrs to do the school run and tescos.........???


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 03:58 PM

My husband wore his Lycra long shorts and an England football top to the supermarket today. He has very well-developed muscles and looks extremely tasty in spite of his age.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:00 PM

The only trouble with cycling is all the damn cars in the way.

What are those selfish swine doing using the last drops of our world's precious fossil fuel to drag their unfit bodies around? (I except those who are disabled.)

As for "cycling two and three abreast", it's very easy to imagine that people are cycling three abreast when in fact it's a perfectly legal two. And it's much safer for drivers if people cycle side-by-side than if they cycle in a single line.

A lot of places are now allowing cyclists to go through red lights when it's safe to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:34 PM

I'm very surprised to hear that Thompson. Which places are those? Because I thought that ALL vehicles had to obey traffic light signals, under the Road Traffic Act 1988 and the Traffic Lights Directions & Regulations 2002.

And I may be elderly but I can still count, and we've often seen three cyclists abreast around here.

Living as we do in the sticks, far from any town or shops, we jolly well have to use a car, especially to transport all our groceries. There is no bus service at all anywhere near our village.

We are careful for the lives and safety of all road users, including cyclists. It would be nice if they had the same respect for us motorists too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 07:45 PM

Who started this popularist antagonistic cyclists versus drivers bollocks.. was it Clarkson...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 07:46 PM

we all want to get home safe and alive...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:28 AM

given club cyclists the idea that they have the right to race or practice racing on the public roads whenever they feel like it.

Hmmmmm - ever driven in a big city? Let alone Lundun (innit?). Not just the taxis, or whitevanmamn, about 20% of cars too - they know where they are going and know the law. They ignore one of those. And then there are the pimped-up cars, at least you can spot them unless they are tail-gating.

Hmm ever driven on rural side roads? - same scenario with 20% of the width!

To brandish all drivers is extreme, but when you don't know their brand - best to assume they are the 20%** until proven otherwise.

** make that 50% for BMWs


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Acorn4
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 05:25 AM

The chief hazards of cycling are drains sunk 3 inches into the road surface and broken glass which means you've either got to stop or swerve out potentially into the path of twatwagon drivers who think 3 centimetres is a good enough clearance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 05:46 AM

Which is why I said not to ride in the gutter. By the way, Mr Red (may I call you Eric The?), make that 82.5% for Volvo drivers and 88.9% for Audi drivers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:42 AM

Well, this Audi driver (and ex-cyclist) pulls right out to overtake cyclists, when it's safe to do so - and slows to a complete crawl in the presence of horses.

Happy to be in the 10.1%...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 07:44 AM

That would be 11.1%, Will. I'm more generous than you think...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: goatfell
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 07:53 AM

It would be a better place if drivers would slow don and obey the rules of the road instead of trying to kill cyclists well some drivers


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: goatfell
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 07:59 AM

There are some drivers and cyclist that they own the road but they don’t as I’m a cyclist myself


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 08:37 AM

I've never tried to kill a cyclist on the roads (or anyone else, for that matter). I have, however, seen plenty of cyclists trying to kill themselves on the roads, and my dog and I when they come flying up behind us on footpaths with no 'audible warning of approach' fitted to their death-trap machines the way they are required by the law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 08:39 AM

Senoufou, this piece on red lights is from three years ago, I think a lot more cities have followed through now; the concept is called the Idaho stop.

The reason for someone on a bicycle going through a red light is quite different, usually, from the reason someone in a car does it, and the dangers are radically different.

More women on bicycles are killed by trucks, because women typically obey red lights; if a woman on a bicycle sees a truck moving up beside her, she'll stay where she is, and move off when the lights change. A proportion of truckers will ignore their blind spot and turn, and will crush the woman to death.

Men on bicycles are more likely to calculate the risk of going through the lights to get away from motorised traffic, and choose going through when it's clear, so they are less likely to be "T-boned" by turning cars, vans, buses or trucks.

When drivers go through stop lights it's for a different reason: they "catch the lights" by whizzing through - often nose-to-tail in a stream of several cars - after the light has turned red. This is really dangerous, because people who are coming the other way - on bikes, in cars, etc - say quite logically "Oh, goody, the light is green, I can go through now", only to be confronted by a stream of fast traffic, often turning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 10:02 AM

I used to cycle in London back in the 60s before there were any cycle lanes. Stayed alive by keeping off main roads and finding alternative routes through back streets.

And my daughter cycles a lot around Edinburgh: she was knocked off her bike by a back seat car passenger opening his car door without checking behind first. The car in question was illegally parked in an active bus lane! Hardly the cyclist's fault! Fortunately no serious injuries beyond a few bumps and bruises and a skinned finger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 10:36 AM

The worst offenders when we drove home from London were a number of cyclists with no lights who appear from nowhere on the inside - impossible to see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 05:28 PM

Raggytash's
three cyclist going the wrong way down a one way street

is decidedly disconcerting.

Some towns do actually have this officially but it has to be really well marked, or it feels "wrong".
> 2nd pic here
https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/contraflow-bus-system.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM

"Lack of attention is the killer in the end." Indeed. "Speed kills" used to be the slogan. True enough, but it doesn't cause accidents. What causes accidents is stupidity, inattention, driving inappropriately for the conditions. You can be 10 mph under the speed limit & still be driving far too fast.

And Stanron, one of Sen's later comments confirms what I thought when I read your first post - you completely missed the point when composing your lecture! ;-) The issue isn't cyclists who get themselves to the front of a queue; I don't think any reasonable person objects to that, motorist or not. They may go in front of a red light to do so, but they still stop & wait for it to change. Indeed, an increasing number of lights now have a "cyclist box" painted on the road for them behind the light, but in front of vehicles. Officially, they're termed "Advanced Stop Lines", I believe.

But there are many cyclists who simply ride as though red lights don't exist or don't apply to them & don't stop. That's an issue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:58 AM

I counted 24 cyclists who defiantly rode over red lights last Friday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 08:17 AM

A petrolheaded "Top Gear" culture of hostility towards cyclists leads to more injured and dead cyclists...
A knock on effect is more pedestrians injured on pavements
as a generation of unskilled clueless young adult bike riders
have grown up too frightened to cycle on roads...

If the cycling proficiency test still exists [passed mine at school - age 11]
I'd sincerely hope it now teaches essential road survival strategies...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 08:44 AM

an inevitable solution...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 08:50 AM

Cyclists should be taxed and insured and Lycra should have a VAT rate of 10,000%


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:18 AM

LOL, pfr, I love that. I've fantasized about having a grenade launcher mounted to my handlebars for retaliation whenever a drunken springbreaker or a rubbernecking snowbird swerved into the bike lane and came within a fraction of an inch of knocking me ass
over tea kettle.
I don't understand this aversion some folks here have to spandex (or lyrca). On a long bike ride you wouldn't want to wear anything else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:31 AM

I've done a hundred-mile bike ride and a four-day, 320-mile trip from Radcliffe to Bude and cycled 6000 miles a year with ordinary trainers-plus-toeclips-and-cages, baggy cycling shorts and cotton t-shirts, not a hint of Lycra in sight, sitting on my well-oiled Brooks B17 leather saddle. In the good old days, I hasten to add. When you get off your bike to go into a shop (walking normally) you look like a normal human being. I can absolutely tell you that Lycra is not a cycling essential unless you're some kind of racing nut.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:47 AM

You must have a tougher hide than me Steve because I won't be without spandex shorts for any ride that's gonna last more than about an hour.
One of the dumbest things I ever did was leaving a well broken-in Brooks saddle on a Fontan when I traded it in for a new Fuji which had a leather seat which never got right no matter how much I worked it over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:53 AM

I wore/still wear baggy cycling shorts with a chamois insert. Occasionally, the girls you meet coming head-on get a glimpse of a bit more than they bargained for, but there's nothing like proper ventilation...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:58 AM

Beware of "Upshorts".

It wasn't a Fontan it was a Gitane.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:07 AM

I hadn't thought of that. Those head cameras upshorting me as I issue my unwary, cheery "hellos" to the cycling ladies...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:13 AM

I grew up with cycling as our family's only privately owned form of transport...

[an uncle on the estate did drive a transit van for dodgy dealings
out in the countryside...]

So I've only ever cycled in my normal day to day clothing...

In my 20s I even took on my dad's old national service demob long overcoat, and cycle clips...

At 49 I was cycling in baggy cotton trousers and steel toe cap boots,
and still beating lycra clad wannabes
on short sprint race challenges from traffic lights...

That was a deliberate defiant 2 finger salute to youth and faddish bike culture fashions...

My secret weapon was core body and leg muscle built over years of gym weight training..
and a lifetime cycling for transport rather than weekend sport & lycra fashion parades......


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:15 AM

btw... I'm still googling for any photos of bike wheels with fitted chariot scythe blades..


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:22 AM

I'd like them on my grandkids pushchairs!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:38 AM

Way back when I used to cycle the length of the C&O towpath from Washington, D.C. to Cumberland, MD every spring with some buddies which was a roundtrip of over 400 miles, including diversions away from the runoff-swollen Potomac. The first time I did it in baggy cotton gym shorts which did not wick away perspiration, took forever to dry and left me with a painful rash by the end of the trip. After that I was a devout convert to spandex and laughed off the accusations of cycling foppery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:41 AM

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 08:37 AM
I've never tried to kill a cyclist on the roads (or anyone else, for that matter). I have, however, seen plenty of cyclists trying to kill themselves on the roads, and my dog and I when they come flying up behind us on footpaths with no 'audible warning of approach' fitted to their death-trap machines the way they are required by the law.


There is no law requiring a UK cyclist to have a bell on their bike.

The highway code states:
Make sure that you feel confident of your ability to ride safely on the road. Be sure that•you choose the right size and type of cycle for comfort and safety
•lights and reflectors are kept clean and in good working order
•tyres are in good condition and inflated to the pressure shown on the tyre
•gears are working correctly
•the chain is properly adjusted and oiled
•the saddle and handlebars are adjusted to the correct height.

It is recommended that you fit a bell to your cycle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM

Just to clarify, an audible warning of approach can be the cyclist's voice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:47 AM

gillymor - well I'll give you 400 miles is a bit more demanding for specialist cycle wear that a 7 mile commute...

Even I relented and bought yellow Hi Viz waterproof jackets
just before my knees and feet got too knackered in my early 50s....


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:17 AM

On this one occasion, Nigs, as you've worked so hard and spent so much time in your desperate desire to prove me wrong, I will bow to your superior knowledge.

The rules have obviously changed in the years since I abandoned my push-bike in favour of the petrol-engined version. When I took my cycling proficiency test in 1957, a bell was required on a bike by law, and between 2003 and 2011 a new bike had to have a bell fitted when it left the shop. Any cyclist who doesn't understand the obvious benefits to other footpath-users of having a bell on his bike and using it really doesn't have the necessary intelligence to be allowed out on a bike.

I'm not charmed in the least when the modern cyclist's vocal 'audible warning of approach' tells me, as it frequently does, to "Get out of the fucking way, you silly old bugger," or, when my dog is having an off-lead run on our river-bank footpath which is clearly marked by a 'no cycles' sign, to "Get that fucking dog on a lead!".

Before criticising other Road users, cyclists really should take stock of their own behaviour. Stones, glasshouses and all that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:31 AM

Also, cyclists need to remember when using shared paths that pedestrians are often elderly, and in some cases their hearing is not great. So they need to be prepared to slow down or stop if people don't hear them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:37 AM

For me a hearty "ON YOUR LEFT" or "ON YOUR RIGHT" with a slow and cautious procession works just fine when pedestrians and dogs are present. I don't think I've ever hit a walker but I have suffered the unwanted attention of dogs on too long a leash.

pfr, after numerous injuries, repairs and replacements to the region from my hips on down (of course, one sector down there still functions just fine) I've taken to riding a "comfort bike", a Cannondale with shock absorbers at the front fork and seat post with upright handlebars and it just glides over the sidewalks and some of the rougher pavement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:38 AM

Backwoodsman & Bonz - all joking and sparring banter aside...

As in all walks of life [hah.. puns..eh..???],
I'm sure you would agree that not all cyclists are one and the same,
or even agree with, or like each other...

My simple contention is that an inconsiderate aggressive reckless arsehole is never going to be any different,
no matter how many wheels, or mode of transport....


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:42 AM

"Also, cyclists need to remember when using shared paths that pedestrians are often elderly, and in some cases their hearing is not great. So they need to be prepared to slow down or stop if people don't hear them."

Nailed it, David! The worst offenders are the groups of Lycra-clad gorillas riding at high speed on virtually silent, extremely expensive racing bikes, who regard any exhortation to them to reduce their speed and warn those walkers who haven't heard their approach as a personal insult of the highest order.

"Ignorant, inconsiderate, boorish twats" barely covers it adequately.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 02:06 PM

I did an 11-hour ride last week in a pair of soft, baggy trousers and a cotton T-shirt. Only 100km or so - I'm very slow now that I'm old.

But I'm always astonished, and a little disgusted, at the sneers at people who choose to wear Lycra/Spandex. I would not dream of sneering at golfers for their odd dress, or at tennis or cricket or baseball or basketball players, all of whom have their own choice of dress.

I think the sneers at cyclists and their dress are an expression of class distinction - the kind of Andy Capp stuff that some people used to find funny when the targets were from Africa or the Caribbean.

As for cyclists and red lights, every video-backed study I've read says drivers break the lights more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 03:00 PM

lycra cycle shorts , a modern way for flashers to get most of their thrill - and avoid arrest...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:51 PM

What socio-economic class are cyclists then? I would have thought it was a pretty broad spectrum. From toffs to gammon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:58 PM

Cyclists could be defined by John Lanchester's "The trouble with the poor is that they have too much money".

In other words, a group that were looked down upon have lately started behaving as if they're richer, and not humble enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 05:00 PM

Some I know are pretty rich, and always have been.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 04:05 AM

It's a new way for middle age men to spend their money. If you're riding a £3000 bike then you need to dress accordingly, don't you? A big problem is that sport cyclists start using the bike for their commute and then treat the journey as a training session and the increasing use of Strava has people straining to beat the best times on various stretches of their journey.I've been using the "Cycle Super Highways" (a bad description) since their inception and a lot of cyclists are trying to cycle them at speeds more suited to the main carriageways.
I often have a chuckle at those cyclists who ignore the stop lines at red lights and sit in the middle of the junction waiting for a gap in the traffic. Usually the lights change without out them being able to see and they find themselves being passed by those who've waited patiently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 04:21 AM

Perhaps we could use some of the Brexit Dividend to build segregated cycle lanes in our cities? Then both motorists and pedestrians would be safe from cyclists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 05:06 AM

The solution to people cycling faster than your taste on the 'superhighways' is the Green Wave - this is a system where the traffic lights change in a sequence where people cycling at 20km/h can continue through the whole series of lights without ever having to stop at a red.

It's a nice compromise - 20km/h is nearly double my own normal cycling speed, but is under the 30km/h that training types would go at. And as cycling takes over from driving (as it is already, though this is masked by the fact that a single driver has a whole car around him or her), it will be possible to widen cycle lanes and allow a single lane for the 20km/h cyclists and another for slowpokes like me.

The 'arrogance' charge always makes me laugh, encountering, as I do daily, shouty drivers, registered-blind drivers, drivers capable of steering their vehicles by telepathy while posting on Facebook on their phones, drivers freshening their makeup, drivers smoking, etc. Sometimes doing any of this and others fatally, like this woman who turned around to take a tag off her child's toy toy while driving, and killed a man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 08:21 AM

Well, here's a bit more evidence of the arrogance and stupidity of **some** cyclists....I'm pretty sure the cyclist(s) concerned would claim that it's everyone else on the road that's an idiot, not them...

Be sure to read the horse-riders account (click on the 'view more' above the video).

https://www.facebook.com/Idiotukdriversmedia/videos/1134329413381670/


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 08:23 AM

That should be 'see more'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 08:32 AM

Last autumn, around dusk, I was on the front top seat of a double decker bus driving along unlit country lanes...

The bus turned a corner and had to veer to avoid a a young female rider on the road dressed all in black, on a black horse...

No hi viz reflectors, or lights...

This may be stereotyping, but it's fair to presume she was a reasonably well brought up and educated daughter
from one of the nearby village posh families...

Arrogant stupidity and disregard for road safety is universal...

Clash of horse versus cyclist - I'd bet on the horse usually winning...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:12 AM

Pfr, did you read the account? She and the horse were properly attired in hi-viz gear.

The behaviour of the cyclists is something I see frequently on the footpaths and roads around here - using the road/path as a racetrack, riding in large 'packs', trying to emulate professional racing-cyclists, refusing to slow down, the 'pack' breaking up and whizzing around anyone or anything in their way. And, of course, the rudeness and abuse from the riders (even on footpaths which are clearly signed 'No Cycling').

You're right in your earlier comment - it's not all cyclists who behave badly on the road - but it's galling indeed to hear drivers of bigger, less manoeuvrable vehicles being bad-mouthed by cyclists when they, themselves, are just as guilty of stupid behaviour.

BTW, I speak as one who, in his youth, was an enthusiastic cyclist, who frequently rode thirty miles or so on a summer evening, seventy or eighty on a full day ride-out to the coast and back. I'm far from being 'anti-cyclist', but I most definitely am 'anti-irresponsible-cyclist' - those clowns give cycling a bad name.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM

A few years ago a chap was killed on the Cromer Road, near St Faiths. He was on his bike, no lights and in black/dark clothing. He lived in a village near to our old one, and was a convicted drug dealer. The poor lad who knocked him over couldn't possibly have seen him. There are no lights on that road. He just felt a bump, and stopped his car to investigate.
The Police were supportive of the motorist, but the poor chap (our friends' son) was traumatised, and sat in our local pub trembling with shock.
We all knew the deceased, and although he was a total waste of space I'm afraid, it was still a terrible end to his life.

Nowadays, we still see unlit bicycles, invisible cyclists wearing dark clothing and bikers wobbling around in front of our car. It gives us the shivers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:34 AM

Sen, don't get me started about cyclists riding at night without lights! At least 95% of them do that around here. A complete bunch of dickwads. The police drive past them without turning a hair. Imagine what would happen to a car driver who drove without lights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:41 AM

Backwoodsman - no problems - we are on the same page regarding those idiots and tossers...

I used to consider myself a militant cyclist, primarily from a position of self defense and preservation..
I was definitely a very assertive rider..

But there is now an emerging breed of hostile middle class eco warrior cyclists
with a monumental sense of entitlement regarding coexistence on the roads with motorists...

..there will always be extremists and nutters...

My cycling near death experiences were all the fault of careless drivers,
except for one occasion when I had too much over-confidence in my brakes on a steep wet incline...


However my clashes with wanker cyclists have all been on pavements...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:43 AM

while I was walking..


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:52 AM

Eliza, that's a harrowing account.
If the police had smelt the slightest hint of alcohol on the driver's breath he would have been breathalysed. If the test proved positive then any 'assumption of innocence' would have been ignored, and despite the lack of lights etc. on the bike, the assumption would be that the driver was responsible.
A warning for us all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:05 AM

Good Lord above, Nigel - we agree, completely! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:35 AM

It’s over a year since I’ve been in to Norwich but we have had cyclists cross our path at night with no lights. You don’t see them until you are on them.

It’s even longer since I’ve been there in the day time but I have noticed cyclists squeezing their way between the kerb and heavy vehicles at road junctions. I find it hard to believe the lorries would be aware of the cyclists presence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:39 AM

They wouldn't. I believe this is the most frequent cause of death in London cyclists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:58 AM

I guy I knew personally - I used to row with him back in the '70s - was killed by doing precisely that at a junction. He rode up on the left of a large artic., the lorry turned left and his semi-trailer swung 'inwards' as they do, my friend was caught and dragged by the trailer along the road and, eventually, went under the rear wheels. Killed instantly.

The poor driver of the truck was completely unaware of him being there, the cyclist had been sitting in a blind-spot, and the driver was absolutely destroyed by what had happened. In cases like this one, it's not just the un-thinking cyclist who becomes a casualty - it's also the (completely innocent, in this case) driver of the vehicle, the first-responders, and witnesses whose lives are badly affected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 12:00 PM

And, of course, the family and friends of the cyclist, the driver, and everyone involved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 12:03 PM

Something for the Lycra-Lout, airhead, Chris-Froome-Wannabes to think about when they're speeding, weaving, wobbling, racing, trying to beat the lights, yadda yadda.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM

I'll also blame parents...

In the last decade or two, kids have been set loose cycling on pavements
because road traffic conditions are too dangerous.
That's fair enough, and a very sensible safeguard.

But at some point in early teens, or perhaps a little earlier,
parents should have the grit and responsibility
to get their kids weened and trained off pavements and onto roads...
How else can they gain experience and confidence of real traffic conditions...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 12:43 PM

It was harrowing indeed Nigel. Luckily the lad hadn't been drinking, he was coming home from work. After it was all over (statements, breathalysing etc) he tottered off to the pub to sit with his friends. My neighbours' son went to be with him, and told us how he'd trembled and shook.
Obviously, no-one wants cyclists to be injured or killed, no matter how much they may annoy motorists. But they have to play their part and obey the Highway Code and the normal rules of the road.

Our little village school does weekly cycling lessons (they go past our house) and the children learn all the strategies for safe cycling. Jolly good idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 02:00 PM

"Obviously, no-one wants cyclists to be injured or killed, no matter how much they may annoy motorists. But they have to play their part and obey the Highway Code and the normal rules of the road."

Absolutely spot-on, Sen. It's far too easy for them to ride like cockwombles but blame every other class of vehicle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 02:35 PM

"they / them"

let's remember again to not get too carried away and blame all cyclists...


Actually... now's about time for my proposal [which is is almost certain to be choped...???]


[ Bearing in mind, cycling proficiency test was optional and voluntary at my primary school in the late 1960s ]

Applying for provisional learner driver licenses should be conditional on having first passed
a compulsory qualifying probational period and test for cycling on roads...

Ideally all High school kids should pass this cycling qualification before leaving school.

Fine detail, exemptions for health, and funding this essential formal cycling
[and preliminary for motor vehicle driving] qualification
would be up for discussion...

well... I think it makes more sense...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 02:36 PM

The dead drug dealer had a girlfriend in our village, and they had a little 6yr old daughter together. The funeral was harrowing, and the little girl was present (not a good idea in my humble opinion).
If only her stupid father had had some sense and put lights on his bike (and stopped selling heroin, coke and weed) she might have had a daddy still.
I had a lovely solid dark green Raleigh bike on which to ride to grammar school. It had a bell with a shamrock on it, great thick tyres and no gears, just rod brakes. I called it 'Lucky'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:15 PM

pfr
In which constituency are you going to be standing for parliament. I'll move and give you my vote
... only if you add
When physically capable
all MPs and councillors and council employees in the highways department
must cycle(\tricycle as slow as they like)
a two mile route across their own town(London for MPs)
once per month.
Car drivers should be re-tested every three years. The standard driving test plus a two mile cycle route.

There.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:35 PM

Groups of cyclists should be limited to ten per group and should leave a gap of ten metres between themselves and any group ahead.
Two abreast on minor roads if it leaves four(?) metres free for overtaking
or, when the road is wide enough for a centre marking line, any number abreast to the left of the line.
In my experience it is very rarely safe to overtake even a single cyclist if a car is passing in the opposite direction at the same time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 05:14 AM

The sheer arrogance of motorists, "needing" to belt around this crowded isle of ours utterly unimpeded in their tonne-weight, globally-warming, gas-guzzling, polluting behemoths, expecting far more environmentally-friendly but slower road-users to just bloody get out of their way, is utterly breathtaking. Get a life!

Steve (former keen cyclist now with shot knees, also gas-guzzling behemoth-owner)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 05:21 AM

Whataboutery, Steve? I thought you a far better man than that! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 05:27 AM

Might is right! Time for cyclists to wake up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Mysha
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 06:10 AM

Hi,

Considering trolls are the living mountains, any troll that can fit into a car would have to be underage, and should not be allowed to drive.

Bye,
                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 06:37 AM

How's that whataboutery, John? Just trying to instil a little balance and sanity into the thread, that's all! You may think that squeezing onself into Lycra somehow transforms one into an alien devil, but 'tis as nothing compared to the transformation from reasonable person to raging lunatic that takes place once one climbs into one's gas-guzzling, climate-destroying, ultra-powered tin overcoat...

And I'm as guilty as anyone...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 07:44 AM

Well I have to agree that many cyclists behave very well on the road - even Lycra-clad ones - I did say so much, in a reply to pfr. And, had I continued my cycling activities during my youth into the present day, I would very probably have become Lycra-clad myself (though it wouldn't be a pleasant sight now I'm in my 70s!).

And I don't have a 'gas-guzzling, climate-destroying, ultra-powered tin overcoat', nor do I have a desire for one - my six-year-old 1.6 litre VW Golf is more than sufficient to convey me, Mrs Backwoodsperson, our Border Terrier, a bunch of guitars, and a mandolin around the eight thousand-or-so miles it does each year (and strictly within the applicable speed limits at all times!), without any episodes of apoplectic rage on my part. So I feel justified in also defending drivers - I don't turn into a lunatic when I get behind the wheel, and I'm confident that I'm by no means unique.

So I return to the original point I made - there are bad cyclists, there are bad drivers, none of those who fall into either category are in any position to criticise those in the other category. Glasshouses, stones, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 08:08 AM

Heard when approaching "Oval Drift" - "cyclists sir......thousands of 'em"!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 08:32 AM

I nearly bumped into a Lycra Lout this morning. Idiot came out right in front of me!

(This was on foot and in a building and I think we both laughed. I was a bit surprised to spot him about an hour later, in a classroom, still in his cycling gear but I guess that if, like me, he was only to be there for something lasting a couple of hours, it would be too much hassle to change out of and back into?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 09:05 AM

I imagine your 1.6 litre Golf can go just as fast as my 1.6 litre Ford Focus. 110 mph not impossible. You car weighs over a tonne and was made using precious and dwindling resources at great cost to the environment, and that cost continues as it chugs around the country polluting the air with toxic gases and particles and giving off vast quantities of carbon dioxide, and its eventual disposal causes even more problems. A good bike weighs about 12 kilos, gives off no pollution and will last longer than your car. I'm not seeing things in black and white here, just protesting about the posts here that seem to imply that cyclists are evil beings who simply must get out of the bloody way, the bastards. It's my conjecture that bad cyclists who show aggression have been created by even worse, even more aggressive motorists. My main cycling years were from the mid-80s to the mid-90s and I cycled all over London and all over the Westcountry almost every day, thousands of miles a year, and I didn't meet this aggression. It's a relatively new phenomenon, and it seems to me that motorists are using the very glimpse of Lycra and helmets to both trigger and justify their prejudices. They should be more humble. Motorists are a big part of environmental problems whereas cyclists are not. That's quite a big thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 09:18 AM

If I could get off my arse, literally off the bog, I should be an activist for public transport and cycling...

But in my militant student youth I never dreamt I'd end up stuck in the house
as such an overweight, lethargic, apathetic lump of old bloke health conditions...

Damn that Madonna,
she's only a few weeks older than me, and there's bugger all wrong with her feet, knees, and bowels
a few million dollars can't sort out...

Mind you, Michael Jackson and Prince were also only a few weeks older than me...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 09:19 AM

what are damned eyelists


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 11:25 AM

You're being wilfully obtuse, Steve. It won't wash. I've explained the issues I frequently have with cyclists riding badly on footpaths, including those marked with 'No Cycling' signs. I've explained the big problem here locally of cyclists riding at night without lights. Ive linked to a video of what can only be described as 'cycle-hooliganism' against a horse and rider. I've conceded that there are bad motorists as well as bad cyclists - that there are bad cyclists is an undeniable truth (undeniable except, perhaps, by people who are determined to be wilfully obtuse). That's all you're getting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 11:29 AM

Cars parked on pavements. We're all in this together. That's all YOU'RE getting! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 11:38 AM

100% with you on cars parked on pavements. Another of the bees buzzing around my bonnet. My favourite Page on Facebook is our local 'Parking Like a Twat' Page. Now I do get apoplectic at some of the photos of twattish parking on there!

Trying to blame motorists for 'creating bad cyclists' really is a cop-out though, isn't it? Bad cyclists are created by precisely the same things as bad motorists - selfish attitudes, lack of care, ignorance (or wilful disobedience) of the Highway Code. Nothing more, nothing less - both types as bad as each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 11:41 AM

If only her stupid father had had some sense and put lights on his bike (and stopped selling heroin, coke and weed) she might have had a daddy still.

Hang on just a minute, now.

a) What is the connection between the dealer's choice of profession and his being knocked from his bicycle?

b) Any driver who doesn't see a cyclist until he's knocked the person over is driving too fast, matter a damn whether the cyclist has lights or not.

A little reality about the horse rider and the people on bicycles. She was riding on a road that was garlanded with notices saying there was a triathlon coming through at that time on that day. She should not have been there. Sure, the riders behaved badly and dangerously - the first through should have signalled the others to slow - but this is the nature of competition in our society; the devil take the hindmost.

As for all the codswallop of the last few postings, oh, honestly, stop it. I am a typical cyclist: elderly, creaky, getting my shopping on my bicycle. In the imagination of the tabloids and the radio jocks, "cyclists" have morphed into a kind of racist stereotype. And some people are stupid enough to be pulled in, in much the same way that some people are stupid enough to believe Fox News.

We're all sharing the road. Stop believing stereotypes because they give you permission to hate and sneer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 11:41 AM

BTW, I still have a bike, and I still ride it - considerably less than I did as a young man, admittedly - and I try to ride exactly as I drive - carefully, and observing the rules of the Highway Code. Seems the right thing to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 11:52 AM

I believe this is the most frequent cause of death in London cyclists.

Most crashes - or "accidents" as foolish people insist on calling them - happen in daylight; most happen at junctions. Overwhelmingly drivers are at fault.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 11:55 AM

As always... there's too much of this us versus them bollocks...!!!

We should all unite against skateboarders and drunks in charge of mobility scooters...

..and extendable/retractable dog leads....

..and bloody lovey dovey families walking hand in hand hogging the entire width of the pavement...


... and dog shit...


I would have included jet skis - they're blood annoying - but so far I've not encountered any inland...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 11:56 AM

The rider had every right to be there, the road hadn't been closed for the race. It may have bee necessary to move the horse from one place to another. The race participants agreed to abide by the Highway Code when they entered the race,


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 12:09 PM

Don't get me started on those extendable retractable dog leads. They should be banned. Along with their dogs. And their owners.

No, I relent. Any dog that signs a form, fully witnessed, that states that it promises never to shit except on its owner's own carpet is exempt from the ban. Not that bloody lead though. The ban stays for that lead.

Funniest and most fitting thing I ever saw apropos of a dog and its lead was in Bude. This thuggish-looking bloke had one of those massive terriers, of the type that Mugabe probably had guarding his palace and that eats babies for breakfast, on a chunky metal chain lead. I walked past 'em with a carrier bag full of sausages I'd just bought from the butcher. The cur took a sudden interest, whipped round the back of the bloke's legs to get at me bangers, wrapping the chain round his legs and promptly decking him. The dog actually looked very guilty and apologetic...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 12:42 PM

Hatey hatey hate. I'm out of here for a while.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 01:28 PM

I love dogs. Much nicer people than people. Unconditional affection. And they don't leave nasty shit all over Muscat threads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 01:41 PM

Thompson, in answer to your post about the drug dealer's 'profession' (ha ha) he was on his way to sell his wares around the area, and had tons of the stuff about his person. At the Inquest it was noted that he seldom used lights on his bike to avoid being seen (and how successful he was!) He also took drugs himself (heroin)

None of these things make him a good father (or a good cyclist)
I was upset at the time by the tragedy of the whole affair, but still...

I can't see why motorists should crawl along at a slow speed at night in case they come upon an unlit bicycle with the rider in black clothes. Even from a car travelling at 10mph he'd have been invisible.

Obviously not all cyclists are drug-taking gear dealers. But there are quite a few unlit nitwits about in the dark.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 01:44 PM

I love all dogs except for anything smaller and yappier than a Jack Russell...

But none of them should be allowed to drive or cycle unsupervised...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 01:47 PM

Sen - lights and fresh batteries are essential kit.

But there's no accounting for half-wits who think they are invulnerable...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 02:08 PM

"A little reality about the horse rider and the people on bicycles. She was riding on a road that was garlanded with notices saying there was a triathlon coming through at that time on that day. She should not have been there."

Absolute codswallop. The reality is that she had a legal right to be there - posting a notice that some kind of 'event' is taking place in no way precludes other road-users from being on that stretch of road unless there is an official road-closure in place, which there wasn't. And, being there legally, the horse-rider had a right to expect other road users to behave in accordance with the Highway Code - taking part in an 'event' on an open public road does not, in any way absolve competitors from their responsibilities under the Highway Code - in fact, rather the opposite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 02:09 PM

Oh bollocks! Apologies for the underlining - bloody HTML!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 02:12 PM

Try again...

"A little reality about the horse rider and the people on bicycles. She was riding on a road that was garlanded with notices saying there was a triathlon coming through at that time on that day. She should not have been there."

Absolute codswallop. The reality is that she had a legal right to be there - posting a notice that some kind of 'event' is taking place in no way precludes other road-users from being on that stretch of road unless there is an official road-closure in place, which there wasn't. And, being there legally, the horse-rider had a right to expect other road users to behave in accordance with the Highway Code - taking part in an 'event' on an open public road does not, in any way absolve competitors from their responsibilities under the Highway Code - in fact, rather the opposite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 02:16 PM

But there's no accounting for half-wits who think they are invulnerable

Sadly that also applies to pedestrians. I am amazed by the number of pedestrians that walk along the road with dark clothing. This time of year the contrast between bright sunlight and trees shading the road means that pedestrians in dark clothing tend to merge into the shadows.
Many of the roads where I am are really 1.5 lanes wide with no pavements. Tractors, cyclists, pedestrians, trucks all share the same restricted space and with oncoming traffic all make for whatever verge may exist. Sharp eyes,patience and slow/moderate speed is a necessity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 03:37 PM

Before I go, a short story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 03:51 PM

That was excellent Thompson, I really enjoyed it. Horrible when Death arrived and the orchids all died instantly!

We have the odd huge 4X4 parking outside our house in the mornings to deliver their 'legless' children to our village school. (It had a good Ofsted rating, and pupils now arrive from many of the surrounding villages)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 12:35 AM

Most crashes - or "accidents" as foolish people insist on calling them - happen in daylight; most happen at junctions. Overwhelmingly drivers are at fault.

All I can say there (in reference to Manitas' comment you responded to)

Is that my observance (as a passenger in a car) is one where IMO, the cyclist puts him/herself at risk. I've not been a cyclist but I'd never have tried that manoeuvre alongside a truck on moped or (small - never passed me test or rode the bigger things) motorbike. And there are times I do wonder about the "road sense" of a few cyclists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 08:52 AM

Surely the answer to cyclists (and cars) running red lights would be to build footbridges and/or subways across every road junction in the country that has traffic lights including pelican crossings, then the cyclist/car drivers can do what they like without endangering pedestrians. Funded by a purchase tax on all cycles/and fines for motorist violations at a high enough level to ensure that the project is cost-neutral.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 08:58 AM

And.. to get to where I am working today in West London, it takes two buses or a combination of four overground/tube trains. Today I travelled by bus and the journey took nearly 4 times as long as driving as the first bus didn't stop do to it being crowded with schoolkids whose parents could not be bothered to drive them to school.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 09:04 AM

But surely, if all those schoolchildren's parents got their cars out and took them to school, the roads would be chock-a-block with all the traffic?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 09:07 AM

The answer there is to make it easy, safe and normal for the kids to cycle or walk to school.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 09:41 AM

"crowded with schoolkids whose parents could not be bothered to drive them to school"

that is satire... right...???

no.. seriously.. it is meant to be funny....?????

...because I really don't know whether to laugh or cry.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 10:27 AM

Yesterday I saw two cyclists leave the local hire shop and cycle the wrong way down the quite busy one way road in the town, today I have seen another two.

Now I know this will not go down well with some factions but if I'm in my steel box that weighs over a ton and cyclists are basically fragile bone and soft tissue guess who is going to come out better in any collision.

All too often cyclist negate ALL their responisibities and leave all the thinking to the motorist. It is a two way process, or should be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 10:39 AM

..depends on the cyclist...

some of us have a better sense of self preservation...

some of us live long enough to retire from 2 wheels battle weary, but still alive...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 10:56 AM

Yes, it depends on the cyclist. Some seem sensible, others...

Let me just say that recently a cyclist dressed in black, no helmet, no lights, came at us over a hill in the pitch dark. Fortunately the DH reacted quickly enough to avoid hitting him as he tried to turn left.

No helmet, no lights, dark clothes. I see it too often. They seem to have a chip on the shoulder, but the people they are going to hurt most are themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 10:58 AM

Yeah, I see a lot of motorists with no lights on. They're not so much a danger to themselves as unlit cyclists but they are to other road users.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 11:00 AM

Oh, and not so much a chip on their shoulders as an over-weening sense of entitlement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 11:46 AM

I see a lot of motorists driving around with front and rear fog-lights on when there's no fog, just a spot of drizzle or the slightest hint of a faint whisp of mist. Or no lights when there's thick fog. You can't educate pork.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 07:44 AM

Too many with only one light working and the other beaming up in the air: need more spot checks!
And how did some of us older cyclists ever manage with cycle lights that DIDN'T flash and dazzke motorists?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 12:23 PM

... moan of the day [postponed from yesterday]

Twin's double buggy push chairs - the side by side version...


I got off the train to see my mum yesterday.
It's a small local station with narrow platforms.

Between the fence on the outer side of the platform, and the stationary train,
there's just enough walk-way clearance for 2 or 3 people,
or a couple of cyclists pushing their bikes.

Now imagine the sheer bloody nuisance awkwardness of a big wide double buggy pushchair
and additional family members around it,
pushing through the stream of cramped travellers, several with bikes, trying to exit or enter the train...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: leeneia
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 02:12 PM

I see your point, esp. the other family members who make for a real traffic jam.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: BobL
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 04:44 PM

There is indeed a point, but what alternatives can you suggest, given that babies can't walk and that twins happen? Tandem pushchairs with one twin behind the other? Old-fashioned prams with one at either end?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 04:59 PM

The basic problem BobL is that consideration for other people is a thing of the past. It occurs in every aspect of life, wherever you are in the UK. It's starting to occur in Ireland albeit to a far lesser extent (at the moment)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 05:13 PM

My bike evolution was a german Schwinn, Motobecone, yellow signed Trek, shock absorber bikes and a 60lbs electric Ridealong with automatic transmission.

Now we have stupid laws that ban advanced electric bikes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 08:18 PM

The other evening, Lady Hillary and I were on our way home, on the expressway, keeping an eye open for deer, when we hit a deer carcass. This was just about sunset but the carcass was nearly invisible until we were too close to evade into one of the neighboring lanes. We hit it squarely. After the hit, the check engine light came on so we pulled to the side and called the police to clean up the mess. When the trooper arrived he was unable to find enough remains to clean up. Our damage was a torn wire and a cracked bumper molding.

Even in conditions of good or moderate visibility, it can be difficult to see hazards, like cyclists, until it is too late.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 10:38 PM

"what alternatives can you suggest"

smallest footprint double decker twin buggies...


As far as side by side ultra wide twin buggies are concerned,
I'd presume they'd need to be collapsed to fit through a train door...???

So is it not far more good sense and considerate
to concertina one down before entering the packed cramped busy platform stream of exiting travellers
[with or without cycles],
rather than barging through and forcing impossible bottlenecks.
It seemed there were enough family members to carry twins and collapsed pram onto the platform,
rather than at the last second before boarding the train.

At it's worse comedic extreme, travellers yesterday could have faced a choice of either falling under the stationary train,
or tumbling over the fence into a river...

Maybe I should have positioned myself on the footbridge
and videoed for potential youtube fail classic...????

But I was in too much hurry to hang around this farce, so guess the train ticket inspector
must have sorted it out effectively...

[more proof of why UK railways should not run driver only trains...!!!]


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 10:52 PM

This scene would even have been the highlight of an episode of "Mr Bean"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: BobL
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM

Thanks pfr, that would indeed have been a sensible course of action. Raggy, I agree that consideration for others is all too lacking these days, but I'm afraid there's nothing particularly new about that.

Incidentally, if I could have my way, all car drivers would have to show P plates until they'd passed the Advanced test, would require 3 years' experience on a motorbike before applying for a car licence, and have to show proficiency on a push-bike before graduating to the motorized form. I might, however, spare intending cyclists the need to pass a pedestrian's test first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 04:27 AM

I'm afraid there's nothing particularly new about that.

Indeed, Bob. For a given value of "we"... 30, 40, 50 years, we were the ones being muttered about by our 'elders & betters'. Now we do the muttering! In the days of my youth, normal motorway speed for me was 80-85 mph (I don't recall that I ever got impatient with someone in the fast lane going slower than me, mind). An old habit, also, was, just once, to see how fast a new car would go (on a suitably straight & empty piece of motorway, I hasten to add!). I'm not sure I've broken that one, cos I haven't had a new car for 10 years. Which brings me to...

Normal M-way speed dropped to 68-75 years ago (I don't recall when). Ten years ago, when I was doing a 152 mile round trip to the office, much of it up & down the M11, I went from a Volvo 940 to a V70. All of a sudden, I had an electronic dash. I could see my fuel consumption. I very quickly got into the habit of tucking in behind a juggernaut doing 56-58mph. It makes a hell of difference to the fuel you burn. It also added a mere 10 minutes or so to a journey that was 90-odd anyway. I now actually find it very difficult to make myself drive at over 60, unless it's a quick sprint to overtake! Another side-effect was no more irritating concertinas / rolling traffic jams. You know, those moments when you get slowed down to 60 / 50 / 40 mph for no apparent reason, only to speed up, slow down again, etc, sitting there, fingers tapping the steering wheel, thinking "What the f***…"

All of which is to say, when we're young we think we know it all. The older we get, the less we think we know, as a rule. I think most people realise, as they age, that rushing around like a maniac doesn't get you there (for any given value of 'there') any quicker, and that taking a tiny bit of trouble to nod, smile, hold a door for someone, have a door held for you, oils the wheels of human interaction & makes the world feel a nicer place.

And there's your damned 'ists in a nutshell (alrighht, so it's a coconut, so what? :p ). The problem with traffic is that everyone is dashing around cocooned. For a motorist, it's a metal box & a mindset, for cyclists, it's just the mindset. But it's been observed time & again (remember the Goofy cartoon? It's that old...) that when wheels get involved, we isolate ourselves, and human interaction only restarts when Something Happens, by which time we're all steamed up and It Was Their Fault, Not Mine!!!

You know the good thing about the Good Old Days? They're the OLD DAYS! If you stop & think about for minute, the world has, on the whole, improved through the years. I just wish I was still young so I could enjoy it for longer! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 10:47 AM

On a being seen aspect. I've probably become paranoid but back when my father was a bit more mobile and walked the dog, we got him to wear a high vis jacket just for crossing the road.

I'm rarely out on foot at night but my own regular coat at least has some small reflective stripes on it and we keep a couple of hi vis vests (don't think they are compulsory in the UK but I believe, not that we will be taking car abroad) in the car just in case we had to get out in the dark.

Like I say, maybe I'm just paranoid but is there anything wrong in the idea of being easier to see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: leeneia
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 11:34 AM

I encounter considerate people very frequently.

Watch 5 or 6 lanes of LA traffic stop on the freeway so a kitten can be rescued:

kitty


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 11:41 AM

" It's starting to occur in Ireland albeit to a far lesser extent (at the moment)"
I think I would take issue with that. I believe double yellow lines are regarded as free parking over here, and pavements are designed to enable 2 wheels to be parked off the road. That is on the odd occasion an attempt is made to park. Most of the time vehicles are simply abandoned with the accompanying whine"I will only be here for a moment". Yesterday I attempted to travel along the pavement with a pushchair, with cars on the pavement it was a struggle. One poor guy in a wheelchair had to abandon the attempt and turn around. Traveling anywhere near a rural school when the little darlings are being picked up or dropped off, you might as well park up for the duration. You are not going to be able to get by.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 12:14 PM

So by now then, it's surely more reasonable that this thread title really all along should have been...

" Damned inconsiderate stupid aresholes - irrespective of mode of transport,
age, social class, or any other demographic categorization
"

See, whatever our opinions are of Bonzo, or his intended agenda,
he can certainly start off some very interesting discussions...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 12:17 PM

buggered if I can even spell 'arseholes' correctly these days...!!!???

it's the heat of the sun - we British are not used to it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 12:34 PM

Iains, try visiting England for a week or two, you will soon find out exactly what I mean.

The people in Ireland, by comparison, are far more considerate although I detect a change in that in the past few years.

Either that or I am becoming an even more grumpy bastard than I was as a youth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 01:12 PM

Raggytash I think the major difference in parking is that misbehaviour in the UK is accompanied by a diligent parking warden placing an expensive piece of paper on the windscreen. Where I am parking wardens have yet to evolve and anarchy largely prevails. This is further aggravated by a road system deemed barely adequate for donkey carts in many places. I know one road that the school bus drivers must hate with a passion. They frequently only have an inch or two clearance to get by.
They occasionally extract revenge by punishing wing mirrors of the most guilty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 01:53 PM

Iains, I am not talking about car drivers in particular, but the pervading attitude of people in general.

I am far happier being in Ireland with all it's failing than being in the UK. I am finding more and more that the attitudes of people in England it that the only person who matters is the individual.

No thought or concern for anyone except themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 02:02 PM

That's why we love living in our village Raggytash. We all know and care about each other. The mutual support is excellent.

We found it strange when we visited London last year (coach trip from Norfolk) as people were walking around like robots or zombies, unaware of and not a bit interested in the folk around them. Standing in one's way, pushing past, yelling into their mobile phones. Weird!

We're used to smiling at random people, helping in the supermarket when an elderly person can't reach a high shelf, commenting on the weather etc. It's calming and reassuring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 02:11 PM

Narrow country roads...

I remember once as a kid up a village in N Wales where the bus driver got a couple of us help him to bump a car out of his way.

I could also give you one case I heard of where someone blocked by someone objectionable in a Rolls, locked up her car and proceeded to walk and good on her.

But it wasn't the usual way on those roads. If local, you knew where the give way points were, you could often see (particularly if coming down) where another vehicle was and most of the time, people were prepared to give way or understand who had the easier job of reversing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 02:31 PM

buggered if I can even spell 'arseholes' correctly these days

The bind moggles, pfr, truly it doth... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 02:51 PM

I used to get top marks in spelling at infunts shcool...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 03:23 PM

Spolling, man, shpolling! Errrmmm…


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 03:34 PM

I dust lot my spill chucker do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 03:45 PM

The guy who invented spell-check died yesterday. His funfair is next monkey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 06:22 PM

In West Africa, the prevailing attitude toward people who block traffic seems to be much different. My friend Joe French tells me that his brother David, who worked in West Africa for the Helen Keller foundation reports that when people see friends near the road, they stop and chat, leaving the vehicle in the line of traffic. Rather than being upset by this, the people who are delayed simply shrug at intone "WAWA" meaning West Africa wins again.
This way may not be good for getting places quickly but I would bet that everyone gets along better than if they were standing on their horns and complaining.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 06:38 PM

Which W African country was that Ebarnacle? I've never seen such patience myself in the ones I've visited!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 03:59 AM

Passed an idiot moped rider yesterday defiantly doing a wheelie at speed in the opposite direction towards a tram crossing. Impossible to see registration plate unfortunately, but will get it one day and report to police. Meanwhile, I hope he falls off before he kills somebody!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 05:58 AM

Doing a wheelie? On a moped?

Duck, everyone, here comes a flying pig...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 06:10 AM

Yes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 06:49 AM

Moped riders have become like a notifiable disease where we live, so the more we report to the police the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 08:01 AM

Do you know what a moped is Bonzo?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 09:29 AM

Moped rider with a death wish!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 10:39 AM

I was lucky that my iphone was on video from which I extracted that still - now on police file!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 11:13 AM

You have just proved it was not a moped!

Well done.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 11:19 AM

BTW, were you using you iPhone while driving? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 11:49 AM

The local police and local newpapers describe such vehicles as mopeds which is good enough for me. My iphone stands in a holder on the windscreen as a dashcam, video is enabled of course before starting my car - I don't want any clever dicks seeing me touch the iphone when driving!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 11:59 AM

"I don't want any clever dicks seeing me touch the iphone when driving"

Now that's a sentence you wouldn't want to post jumbled up through lack of concentration...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:00 PM

Its still not a moped.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:03 PM

It is where I live.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:05 PM

Today I have just crossed the road, a one way street, when two cyclist came tearing up behind me going the wrong way. I pointed out to them that is was a one way road. They, not very politely, told me they were only going one way and then promptly turned into another one way road.

I know I shouldn't have felt this but I was half hoping they would run into something. I would have stayed around and informed the police that they had been told it was one way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:11 PM

According to the DVLA, the definition of a moped is a two-wheeled vehicle with an engine capacity of less than 50cc and capable of a maximum speed of less than 31mph.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:19 PM

https://www.mopeds.co.uk/
Houston. We have a problem!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM

about 15 years ago I once accidently turned into a town centre one way road and was met by abuse from an oncoming driver...

I accepted that driver's anger without question, as I was mortified at making such a stupid mistake,
putting myself at risk of collision.

I'm not trying to sound sanctimonious and priggishly 'perfect',
but just demonstrating a difference between cyclists who care about their safety,
and other cyclists too idiotic and belligerent to be set loose on the road...

Likewise, the driver who nearly mowed me and my wife down while we were carefully crossing a road,
deserved my full loudly shouted abuse because he was staring sideways at his mobile phone as he sped round a corner towards us...

Or the posh looking woman in the brand new 4x4 who nearly hit me at speed as she turned a corner using her phone
while I was already walking half way crossing the road...

All these incidents and more occurred in the same small packed town centre road system....

I really should have learned by now to keep my phone switched on, cam at the ready....


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:26 PM

these new mopeds look like the bastard child of a lambretta and a disability scooter...

not the wannabe tinny wasp sounding motorbikes of a past era...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:43 PM

They do!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 12:52 PM

According to the gov.uk website, mopeds are classed under category AM, and should be of the specifications I gave below. (These changed in 2013)

I always use my Teacher's Basilisk Stare when we see a cyclist doing a wheelie. We always worry about their safety; after all, they're somebody's child, and we imagine the grief of their family if the worst should happen.

Just this morning we were on our way to Blickling (usual twisty, single-lane roads, but my husband doesn't dawdle unnecessarily) and a young motorcyclist zoomed past at breakneck speed. He was on chevrons and crossed a solid white line. He flew round a tight bend (no possibility of seeing anything coming the opposite way) and we gasped with fear for him. Luckily we caught a glimpse of him in the distance, still alive and still zooming along. One wonders what life expectancy the lad might have...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 01:25 PM

imho... mopeds are a modern device of natural selection *...

Teenage road deaths over the summer holidays seem to be a post world war 2 way
for adolescents to experience the death of friends,
and learn to deal with mortality...

A vital part of the process of growing from childhood to adulthood...

I'd guess, most schools and colleges, friendship circles, lose at least one teen boy this way every summer...???

Days after O levels we lost a band member guitarist to a very gruesome moped accident...

..and after A levels our band singer to a car crash...


[* though devastatingly unfortunate for any of their collateral victims and their families...]


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 01:38 PM

When I was at school in the sixth form, a very nice lad sat behind me in class, called David Griffith. His dad got him a scooter (they were all the rage then, remember Mods and Rockers?) One Monday morning our form teacher came in with a trembling lip and a very distressed expression. She silently went to his desk and took out all the contents, then left the room.

We were mystified, but later we learnt that at the weekend poor David had been riding along when a badly-towed caravan swung out and knocked him off his scooter under a lorry.

In those days, folk grieved quietly and there wasn't any of the lighting candles, piles of flowers, sobbing on each other's shoulders etc. But our hearts were truly wrung nevertheless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 02:58 PM

How very sad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 03:01 PM

Unfortunately, whilst the legal definition of a moped has not changed, so DavetG is technically correct, the way that two-wheeled motorised contraptions are built has changed, so Bonzo is also correct. As Iain's link proves, there are moped-built two wheelers that most certainly do have engines bigger than 50cc and, presumably, speed in excess of 28mph (it was lowered in Jan '13, Sen).

Wiki makes a distinction between mopeds, which is the legal definition, and scooters, which is the moped-build non-mopeds that Bonzo seems to be referring to. I presume that scooters basically require a bike licence. I would be very curious to know how many scooters are being ridden on moped licences. They'll be insured correctly, cos the insurance will damn well make sure they know what is what (there's money involved!), but if it looks like a moped... Who's checking it is & that the rider is correctly licenced? I don't know whether insurance companies are allowed to go to the DVLA to check licencing (and there's no guarantee the insurance is in the name of the rider anyway).


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 03:26 PM

Well whatever, if my photos get these monkeys stopped, I'll be very pleased.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 04:12 PM

As I have pointed out elsewhere, it is no good pointing out that bonzo is wrong. As far as he is concerned mopeds are mopeds regardless of what they really are!

As far as I know, knobheads are knobheads no matter what they call themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 04:32 PM

Bonzo is quite right to want to report any idiot who shows off by doing wheelies on the highway. Getting them stopped may save their lives and that of others on the road. It's irrelevant whether they're on mopeds or blooming flying carpets!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 04:41 PM

Of course they should be stopped but getting the complaint wrong does no one any favours. A scooter is not a moped and telling the police a moped did a wheely when it was a scooter helps no one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 05:26 PM

Whatever you thing dave the gnome is irrelevant, they are collectively known as mopeds by local police here, and provided that they have the registration number they can deal with it accordingly - warning/section 59/ confiscation and crushing of moped as appropriate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 05:43 PM

Chucking out a "Calm down, dear!" is so tempting at this point, Dave... ;-) Whether you like it or not, to most people, if it looks like a moped, it's a moped. They simply won't be aware of the legal definition or the technical differences. To be honest, whilst I was aware there is a definition of moped & that they are treated differently from other two-wheelers, I didn't know what those definitions / differences were until an hour or two ago. If you'd asked me, I'd have told you there are some seriously over-powered mopeds on the roads these days!

I have no doubt that the police not only know the legal definition, they also know that most people 'know' that if it looks like a moped... Etcetera. So reporting a moped, especially when you're sending them a piccie of it, is not harming anyone either, is it? Are you just jumping at Bonzo's name? I know he's got up a few noses at various times, but it isn't automatically wrong because it's him saying it, y'know! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 05:52 PM

A brief history of mopeds:


https://www.bikesure.co.uk/bikesureblog/2016/09/a-brief-history-of-mopeds.html

My 6th form transport was a G9 Matchless with a Steib sidecar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 06:22 PM

Are you sure you don't want them killing themselves off before they breed?
Senoufou, this was almost 30 years age and the other two participants in the conversation are long gone to their rewards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 06:23 PM

So there are "moped scooters".............interesting!! They used to race 50cc machines, I don't know if they still do, but those racing machines could do 100 mph!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 06:25 PM

I bought a Honda 50 moped in the early 70s for fifty quid. Used it mostly to commute between Tipton and Wolverhampton or Tipton and Dudley. I had a flowing mane in those days with a Jaysus beard and I must have looked dead grand sailing along at almost 28mph in a following wind in those pre-crash helmet days. By the end of the year I had no insurance and optional brakes. The bloody thing seemed to need a decoke about once a month. Witnessed a van smashing into a parked car one evening in Tipton and driving off. The tearful car owner tried to get me to wait for the cops as I was a key witness, but I wouldn't because I'd had six pints of Holden's Golden by then. I did leave him all my details but I never heard back. God knows why I'm telling you this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 06:58 PM

Bonzo3legs. It is not just mopeds that could race. Many,many years ago I took part in a lawnmower race at Wisborough Green in Sussex. Stirling Moss was in the same race and clearly demonstrated that he was the professional.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: BobL
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 03:22 AM

On grass, I presume? That could make drifting round the bends quite interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 03:30 AM

On grass it was, and watching Stirling Moss performing 4 wheel drifts on a lawn mower was quite an education. Thank God Oliver Reed was not competing that year. The breathalyser was then in it's infancy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 03:36 AM

Point accepted. Most people call them mopeds. Most people do not know their arse a from their elbow :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 03:39 AM

We have a Motocross course near our village, and they hold national events there (very noisy) about six times a year. The Motocross bikes look like mopeds, but they probably aren't, as they zoom around the track like anything. It's extremely hilly (artificial hills of course - Norfolk is flat!). Folk here call them the Scramblers.

I think the clue to a moped is the 'ped' bit. Originally they had pedals with which to start the motor and to assist it to get up inclines etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 03:42 AM

no 'audible warning of approach' fitted to their death-trap machines the way they are required by the law.

I always maintained that notion, but it was pointed-out to me that UK law only requires bells (et al) to be fitted when sold. I haven't checked the precise law though.
So we can get the bike shops?

The most audible device on most bikes on the canal towpath (conveniently made rideable by canal volunteers) is the scrape of dust as the idiots slow down at the last minute. I do sometimes comment "that is very no ble" of you.

Humour is lost on the idiots.

BUT - better they cycle along the canal than mingle with idiots with engines.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 03:48 AM

"Point accepted. Most people call them mopeds. Most people do not know their arse a from their elbow :-) "

Most people don't wear size 20 anoraks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:07 AM

More Moped confusion from Northern Ireland:

The moped category definition changed on 19 January 2013. The European rules have now changed and because of this the category on your new driving licence will now show as AM and Q instead of the old category P.
Moped category definition

A moped (category AM) is defined as having a maximum design speed over 25km/h (15.5mph) but not exceeding 45 km/h (28 mph); or a light quadricycle with an unladen weight not more than 350kg and up to 45km/h. It has an engine capacity no greater than 50 cubic centimetres (cc) and can be moved by pedals if it was first used before 1 September 1977.
Existing driving licence holders with moped entitlement

Previously your entitlement was shown on your driving licence as category P and covered you to ride mopeds with:

    an engine size up to 50 cc (cylinder capacity)
    a maximum speed up to 50 kilometres per hour (km/h)

Category P entitlement is not lost from the licence but you will also be awarded categories AM and Q as detailed below.

Your entitlement is shown as:

    category AM - gives you entitlement to ride mopeds with a maximum design speed over 25 km/h but not more than 45 km/h, small three wheelers (up to 50 cc and below 4 Kilowatt (kW)), and light quadricycles (unladen weight less than 350 kilograms (kg) and up to 45 km/h)
    category P - extending the above to include two or three-wheeled mopeds with a higher maximum speed of up to 50 km/h (to retain your existing entitlement)
    category Q - extending the above to include two or three-wheeled mopeds with a maximum speed up to 25 km/h (to retain your existing entitlement)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:25 AM

Size 20 is a measure of ladies clothing, Bonzo. I would accept the appellation anorak though as you seem to be using it as an indication of being aware of driving laws. But, as amply demonstrated, you seem to get most things wrong...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:29 AM

Yeah, fun innit!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:33 AM

I once entered a lawnmowing contest but I was eliminated in the first round. I simply couldn't cut it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:36 AM

Were you seeded Steve?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM

Nah, turfed out in the early stages. I didn't exactly earn my stripes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 05:00 AM

Do you want to continue while you are on a roller or should we get back to grass roots?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 05:04 AM

It would be a challenge to earn your stripes, the cutting mechanism is removed otherwise it could become a mower massacre. I wonder what sort of amphitheatre event the Romans could have created had they lawnmowers, or God Forbid, mopeds? Scythes on the wheels and every man for himself the devil take the hindmost?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 05:13 AM

I'm out moped hunting this morning, if I see one I shall say to the rider "did you know that this is not a moped if top speed is over 28mph"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 05:18 AM

I reckon they'll have to put you out to grass then Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 05:36 AM

I'm sick of these cutting remarks. I'm off to the rotary club. I'll mulch over what you've all had to say later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 05:40 AM

""did you know that this is not a moped if top speed is over 28mph"?"
or 31.0686 mph in Northern Ireland!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 05:43 AM

Ah yes - and in a John Major voice too!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 06:00 AM

One of the primary schools I attended was the same as John Major. A slightly different timescale though. Both his secondary school and mine had a regular old boys Boxing Day rugby match. Frequently frost stopped play, a few dogs ambled around halfheartedly with a couple of balls, and the two teams guzzled beer on the touchline. A far more enjoyable way of passing the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 06:16 AM

To anyone who thinks the distinction is not important, imagine this scenario.

"The charge is that on the 23rd of June you were doing 60MPH down Croyden high street on your moped. How do you plead?"

"Not guilty"

"How can you plead not guilty? Bonzo caught you on camera!"

"A moped can only do 30MPH so either I was not doing 60MPH or it was not a moped. Either way, the change cannot be true."

"Case dismissed..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 06:25 AM

You are forgetting something are you not - photo and registration number?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 06:38 AM

Pedants make a great rout about criticism, as if it were a science of great depth, and required much pains and knowledge--criticism however is only the result of good sense, taste and judgment--three qualities that indeed seldom are found together, and extremely seldom in a pedant, which most critics are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 06:45 AM

More to the point, the charge wouldn't be made that way. As already pointed out, the police know the difference (one hopes), and I imagine the charge would be read out giving the make, model & registration of the vehicle, since only the speed is relevant (the vehicle type isn't). I could be wrong - I was only ever in court once & that was 30-odd year ago!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 08:14 AM

"a few dogs ambled around halfheartedly with a couple of balls"

What, between them or each?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 08:25 AM

Steve. Whatever makes for the best story! In the clubhouse it would probably be:"Hitler has only got one............"


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 08:36 AM

I sidled up to a bloke in the pub last night. I sez to him, hey mate, between you and me we have five balls. He sez back, why, have you only got one?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 08:58 AM

Did he play pocket golf with a handicap?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 09:17 AM

Five balls between two of you? Someone's been short-changed:
Eyeballs 2 each
Balls of the feet 2 each
Ball of the thumb 2 each
And there may even be others ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM

"The most audible device on most bikes ...."
is the voice of the rider.
Loud if an emergency arises but peferably asking, in gentle tones,"Excuse me\us,* could we come past on your left\right please?"

A bell from twenty metres away is acceptable but from a couple of metres is aggressive.


*"Excuse me Sir\Madam..." would probably be better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 09:29 AM

I agree entirely about the court scenario Raedwulf but I am pointing out the unreliability of a certain witless witness :-) If you have no idea what you have just seen you are not really qualified to comment on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 09:48 AM

I was drunk in charge of a shopping trolley once...

It was well past midnight, and the only way to get my completely sozzled girlfriend [now the mrs]
safely back from the city centre to our student hall of residence 4 or 5 miles away...

I'm fairly certain we stayed on the pavements...???


Back then, I was so skinny, less than 11 stone,
and could get pissed on just a few bottles of strong lager...

Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet were in the pop charts...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 10:00 AM

"Did he play pocket golf with a handicap?"

He did. His handicap was that there wasn't enough room in his pocket zone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM

The little girl who walks in while her father's having a shower:
"Daddy, what are those for?"

"FOUR!?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 10:53 AM

ok.. let's start linking this thread back together...

A bloke's family jewels and bicycle seats...

What's the best recommended comfortable cycle seat for an older fatter chap...

last time I was using my bike regularly,
after about 10 miles pressure points in my arse and gooch region would be in agony.
Fortunately, my tackle escaped the severest discomfort...

I'm a fair bit fatter now, and not been out on my bike for 2 or 3 years...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 02:18 PM

20mph is not ridiculous it's the difference between injuring and killing. Like it or not motorists have to share the roads with pedestrians who have an absolute right to use them whereas motor vehicles are only used under licence. The majority of residents of inner London do not have cars. Historically motor vehicles are the interlopers on our roads. We need them, yes, but not everywhere and there is certainly no need to drive a private ( as opposed to commercial) vehicle in central London.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 03:38 PM

Yes there is if your wife is disabled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:10 PM

My wife is a Blue Badge holder and has every right to drive into London, and NOT to be pestered by inconsiderate bad cyclists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 04:32 PM

Mmmmm… Couple of odd statements there, Manitas, though I wouldn't disagree with the last sentence at all!

motorists have to share the roads with pedestrians who have an absolute right to use them

Historically motor vehicles are the interlopers on our roads


Regarding the first, first define 'road'. The vast majority of roads in London comprise two pavements either side of a strip (of varying width) of tarmac (actually it's not, but we'll get to that in a sec!). So what are you saying? That pedestrians have a right to walk down the middle of the road? That motor vehicles are allowed to drive on the pavement? If memory serves (I may be wrong), the Highway Code says that a pedestrian in the road (i.e. on the tarmac) has right of way i.e. you can't drive over them. That doesn't equate to a right to stand in the middle of the road, stopping the traffic. And you could just as validly state that pedestrians, like cyclists, are not currently required to prove any competence, which puts a slightly different emphasis on things.

As for the second, again define 'road'. When did a road become a road, historically speaking? Going back to the moped / scooter discussion, sort of... Macadam was pioneered around 1820, tarmacadam was patented in 1902, what we actually drive on these days, apparently, is asphalt concrete. In 1820, there was no real conception of rights, but there would have been horsemen & stagecoachs whizzing around. Both are quite capable of doing serious damage to a pedestrian, up to & including fatality (think Emily Davison under the King's horse at the Epsom Derby). If motor vehicles hadn't increased in number & capability, would anyone have felt a need to invent asphalt concrete? It's an interesting idea to consider, but I'm not sure what you want to convey in the 'historical interloper' notion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 05:31 PM

Perhaps roads and pavements should be made of extra thick layers of that rubbery safety surface
spread under the slides and swings in kiddies playgrounds...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 02:37 AM

The billions spent on cycleways in London makes the cost of security at the recent royal wedding pale into insignificance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 03:29 AM

If only...


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 03:34 AM

Electric vehicles, AFAIK, need no UK licence unless they are capable of more than 20 mph (or is it 25?).

Bikes, milk floats and mobility scooters

Ha! Mobility scooters at 20 mph on a pavement? They are a menace at anything more than walking pace, and I walk fast. I would not be too cautious to call such idiots, idiots. Disability and idiocy are not mutually exclusive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM

You're right Mr Red. In Norwich I've seen mobility vehicles positively whizzing along, with pedestrians flinging themselves out of harm's way right and left.
What makes me giggle is the expression on the face of the 'driver' - tight-lipped determination with just a hint of evil triumph!


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 03:56 AM

I've just dipped in, back to ~23 June.

Raedwulf wrote a well seasoned post I liked.



punkfolkrocker said "this thread title really all along should have been...
" Damned inconsiderate stupid aresholes ... "

I'd offer
"Damned people."


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 03:57 AM

^^^^ ! reasoned ! ^^^^


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Raedwulf
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 05:17 AM

I'm using the pepper elsewhere, Freddy, and lots of it! It's definitely making someone sneeze (or something like that)... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 10:12 AM

Was it in the thread about the "Wild west show" and the winky-wanky bird?


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Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 12:50 PM

This thread TITLE put me in mind of
bicycle riders on city streets,
who give auto drivers fits.

Then I looked at the thread content
and it is plain
that bicycles are the least of your worries.


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