Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help

Jim Carroll 06 Jul 18 - 07:30 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 06 Jul 18 - 07:56 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Jul 18 - 08:35 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Jul 18 - 09:16 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 06 Jul 18 - 09:27 AM
Nigel Parsons 06 Jul 18 - 09:47 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Jul 18 - 10:37 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 06 Jul 18 - 11:55 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Jul 18 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 06 Jul 18 - 01:40 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Jul 18 - 02:31 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 06 Jul 18 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 06 Jul 18 - 02:56 PM
GUEST,Observer 06 Jul 18 - 05:27 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Jul 18 - 09:27 PM
John Moulden 09 Jul 18 - 04:23 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Jul 18 - 04:46 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 18 - 08:02 AM
GUEST 09 Sep 18 - 10:54 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 18 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 09 Sep 18 - 04:38 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 18 - 02:37 AM
Steve Gardham 10 Sep 18 - 09:48 AM
Tattie Bogle 10 Sep 18 - 03:39 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 18 - 08:39 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 07:30 AM

I'm looking for Irish texts of Child Ballads and, if possible an indication of where performances of them can be found
They are:
286 THE SWEET TRINITY, (295) THE BROWN GIRL (Appendix: SALLY THE QUEEN)
I'm also trying to find a full Irish version of (73)   LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET (I have a few fragments and plenty of reports of it having once been sung, but no full version) and, if possible, an tune to the Irish language version of (54) THE CHERRY TREE CAROL

I have it on the best authority that all these exist
I am compiling a file of all the Child Ballads that have been reported as having been got from field singers

Any help will be very much appreciated - all are welcome to a copy of the finished product
Many thanks
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 07:56 AM

Jim

Roud lists the following, I don't know if these are what you're after or if you're looking for versions with the specific titles you've given:

Sweet Trinity: Kane, Songs & Sayings of an Ulster Childhood (1983) pp.130-131, place given as Northern Ireland : Belfast / Canada : Ontario : Toronto


The Brown Girl, title given as An Old Song: Univ. College Dublin, Nat. Folklore Collection: Schools Collection, Vol. 0706, Page 501
Univ. College Dublin, collected Peggy O'Connor 1938 from Miss McCabe, Ireland : Co. Meath : Trohanny


Mick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 08:35 AM

Many many thanks Mick - exactly the information I'm seeking
I thought we had the Kane, but I can't find it
The Schools Project has recently come on line, (at long last) I have yet to find my way around it.
I've just assembled a pile of IFS journals I need to go through so there might be something there
Ideally, I would like recorded versions of all (I have most of them), but I'll settle for printed stuff if I can't find them all
My aim is to capitalise on the interest raised by the 'Man Woman and Child' project and get these ballads back into the repertoires of singers
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 09:16 AM

Found our copy of Fowke/Kane
A very irritating fragment
Also found a nice version of Sweet Trinity (sort of) in Joyce with a tune
For anybody's interest
Jim Carroll

Dunmore we quitted, Michelmas gone by
Cowhides and wool and live cargo
Twenty young wild geese ready fledged to fly
Sailing for the Lowlands Low.

CHORUS: The lowlands low, the lowlands low,
Sailing for the lowlands low.

Shaun Paor's the skipper from the church of Crook.
Peary keeps log for his father.
Crew all from Bannow, Fethard and the Hook,
Sailing for the Lowlands low.

These twenty wild geese gave Queen Anne the slip,
Crossing to Louis in French Flanders.
He and Jack Mulbrook both are in a grip,
Fighting in the lowlands low.

Close lay a rover off the Isle of Wight,
Either a Salee or Saxon.
Out through the sea mist, we bade them goodnight,
Sailing for the lowlands low.

Ready with priming, we'd our galliot gun,
Muskets and pikes in good order.
We should be riddled, captives would be none,
Death or else the Lowlands low.

Pray Holy Brendan, Turk nor Algerine,
Dutchman nor Saxon may sink us.
We'll bring Geneva, Sack and Rhenish wines
Safely from the lowlands low.

We sailed out of Dunmore Michelmas gone by
Cowhides and wool and live cargo
Twenty young Wild Geese ready fledged to fly
Sailing for the lowlands low

The lowlands low, the lowlands low
Sailing for the lowlands low

Sean Rouse the skipper from the church of Crook
Piery keeps log for his father
Crew all from Bannow, Fethard and the Hook
Sailing for the lowlands low

The lowlands low, the lowlands low
Sailing for the lowlands low

Ready with priming we'd our galliot gun
Muskets and pikes in good order
We should be riddled captives would be none
Death or else the lowlands low
The lowlands low, the lowlands low
Death or else the lowlands low

A pirate approached us many leagues from shore
We fought and we sunk him in good order
He'll go a-roving plundering no more
Sailing for the lowlands low

The lowlands low, the lowlands low
Sailing for the lowlands low

We smuggled out the Wild Geese weapons safe ashore
Then we unloaded our cargo
A fair wind is blowing we're headed for Dunmore
Sailing from the lowlands low

The lowlands low, the lowlands low
Sailing from the lowlands low
The lowlands low, the lowlands low
Sailing from the lowlands low


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 09:27 AM

Jim

Sorry made a mistake above that second one is not the Brown Girl, but Lord Thomas (text only). (only other Lord Thomas listed is music only in Bronson).


If that's what you need here are the others from Roud:

Cherry Tree Carol. Roud lists 2 entries from Ireland, both audio, no indication of completeness:

1) BBC recording 24842, collected Sean O'Boyle, 1955 from Mrs Maguire, N Ireland

2) BBC recording 22024, collected Seamus Ennis, 1954 from Thomas Moran, Ireland : Co. Leitrim : Mohill

I can't see a ref to tune for Irish Cherry Tree Carol. I'll look more later.


For The Brown girl in Ireland, Roud lists only 2 as "Am I The Doctor":

1) fragmentary text and music in Joyce, OIFMS from Donegal
2) Sam Henry collection in SOTP, N. Ireland : Co. Londonderry : Kilsowen / Portstewart




Mick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 09:47 AM

Best of luck Jim.
Sorry there's nothing here I can help with, but it's a worthwhile pursuit.

Cheers
Nigel


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 10:37 AM

Thanks for the encouragement Nigel - every little bit welcome in this heat
Will announce when it's ready for anybody who wants it
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 11:55 AM

Jim

FWIW I have the complete JIFSS bound in two volumes, if it's any help.

What's the interest in the modern Lowlands Low?

Regards


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 12:41 PM

Is that 'modern' Martin?
I got it from Joyce's Ancient Music of Ireland and was pointed to it as a relation of 'The Golden Vanitee'
I have a full run of JIFSS - Tom Munnelly pointed them out to me just before Brendan Breathnach noticed they were still being sold at the original price and shot it it up
I don't suppose you have a copy of Ceol Vol 3, no. 3
It has a piece by Sean Corcoran which includes a version of 'Maid on the Shore
I want to see if it has any information on the song and the singer
Also, do you know where the late whistle player/singer, Eddie Clarke came from?
Thanks
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 01:40 PM

"Sailing in the Lowlands Low" is by the poet P J Mc Call, in Irish Fireside Poems.

I have only odd copies of Ceol picked for particular purposes. ITMA will have it, no doubt.

The Eddie Clarke I'm thinking of played harmonica, mainly. Josephine says from Cavan.

Regards


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 02:31 PM

Thanks Martin
See you anon
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 02:53 PM

Link to a sheet of the McCall poem National Library of Ireland and to Martin's original posting of the song here on mudcat: Lyr Req: Sailing in the Lowlands Low (P J McCall).


Just to be clear Jim, is the version you posted above from Kane or Joyce?


Mick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 02:56 PM

'I don't suppose you have a copy of Ceol Vol 3, no. 3'

I thought I had it but I don't, I immediately thought it was the one with the ballad singers on the cover, but that's Vol 3, no. 4

Eddie Clarke says 'harmonica' to me as well. He was from Virginia as far as I know (the one in Cavan), Ask Mick Kinsella about him, he knew him well.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 05:27 PM

Lowlands Low - recorded by The Corries

Lowlands Low


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 09:27 PM

Thanks Peter - I think I've solved the problem - the author of the article, Sean Corcoran is taking singing workshops during next week

Thanks also Obseverver, but I'm looking for an Irish version - they seem as rare as rocking-horse crap
I have two fragments of it from two different elderly singers - if I can find anything resembling an Irish text I may use one of our tunes and ask a singer friend to record it so we can acknowledge it was once in the Irish repertoire even if it no longer exists
I think there may be an Irish/Canadian text somewhere on the shelves
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: John Moulden
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 04:23 AM

I have that volume and will scan and send the article- if I forget and I've a lot on, email me rudely. Best wishes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 04:46 AM

Thanks John
I assume that as yoy're there you won't be here
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:02 AM

Wonder if anybody can help
I'm looking for an Irish language text and translation of Colm McDonagh's (Carna Connemara) Lord Randal
Help appreciated
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 10:54 AM

Don't know if this helps, but there are versions on this site of the songs collected in Newfoundland:

http://gestsongs.com/child.htm

Many songs found in Newfoundland would have originated from Ireland.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 12:01 PM

"Many songs found in Newfoundland would have originated from Ireland."
Thanks for that - I'll go through the leist later
I know about the Newfoundland/Irish connection; I've just come across a stunning recorded version of 'The False Knight on the Road' (Child 3) sung by Ben Hennebery of Devil's Island
He learned it from his Irish father, who used to step dance to a lilted jig chorus in between verses

I should explain
I'm asking a lot here by searching for a specific Irish version
I have been searching out all the Irish versions Child Ballads I can find which went into the oral tradition
I had thought there were about 50, but it transpires there were many morse than that
Thanks again
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 04:38 PM

Re Irish language version of Lord Randal - Antaine O Farrachain is the last person I heard sing it. I'm sure Jerry O Reilly could flush out a version for you ...

Coincidentally - I've just eaten eel today - first in a very long time! Mind you - it was a very small piece, precision-cooked in a Michelin star restaurant in a remote corner of Galicia!

Regards


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 18 - 02:37 AM

Thanks Martin
I'll try them
Do you read 'old Irish' by any chance?
Jim,


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Sep 18 - 09:48 AM

Martin, that's a moray!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Sep 18 - 03:39 PM

Intrigued by the thread title, so looked into it. Would have zero knowledge to contribute, but plenty to learn: but at least 2 names sprang to mind: Martin Ryan and John Moulden. Great to see that both have answered, as well as MCP, another great resource. Thanks all, Mudcat at its best!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Missing Irish Ballads - help
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 18 - 08:39 PM

You're welcome to the finished product when it's done T as is anybody else - that's the object of the exercise
Will let everyone know when it's ready
John and Martin have already helped find some of the Ballads
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 September 7:40 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.