BS: New report on dairy fats

Subject: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 08:32 AM

I've just seen a new report published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. It concerns a 22 year study by the University of Texas Health Science Centre in Houston, which was led by Professor Marcia Otto.

The gist is that previous beliefs about eating only low-fat foods and avoiding full-fat dairy products are erroneous, as this doesn't after all protect against strokes and heart disease.

In fact, the fat in dairy foods is beneficial, and has a role to play in the health of older people.

I've had a little dance (The Floss!) as this is something I've always believed (though without any scientific evidence until now)
I've only ever drunk full milk (about a pint a day), spread thick butter on my crumpets and poured double cream into my coffee and on to my desserts.

I think that sugar, salt, trans-fats and additives are far more harmful, and I avoid those if possible.

Obviously, fats of any kind can cause obesity, which doesn't do one any good. But too much of anything is a Bad Thing.

I'm so pleased about the results of this study, I think I'll do 'The Floss' on and off all afternoon in celebration!

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 08:35 AM

Yes. We have been given bad and wrong advice for decades over this.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 08:47 AM

In 2007, Dr Malcolm Kendrick published his book 'The Great Cholesterol Con' (I have a copy) and although some of his statements have been regarded with scepticism, I do tend to agree with much of what he said.

The prescribing of statins to all and sundry has always seemed to me to be a great way for the big drug companies to rake in the dosh.

I refused to take them when my GP practice suggested it, and their reaction was surprisingly strident. My cholesterol levels weren't terribly high at all, and I began to wonder if they get some sort of commission from the manufacturers on prescriptions!

It's very irritating when 'they' tell us one thing about certain foods, then change their minds later.

I just try to eat fresh and natural foods, plenty of fruit and vegetables and no pizzas, burgers, KFC or ready-prepared type of stuff. We don't drink alcohol and have never smoked. I reckon that's the best way to keeping in reasonably good health.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 08:57 AM

I reckon having kids prematurely ages folks, and takes decades off an average couples life span...

..trust me, I got a B in Biology O level...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 09:33 AM

I reckon having kids prematurely ages folks, and takes decades off an average couples life span...

Ah, yes.
But think of the effect of not having kids on future generations :)

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 09:37 AM

We have no children pfr, so maybe we've escaped those stresses!

Strangely enough, both my husband and I were painfully thin and scrawny when young, he from semi-starvation and me from being naturally very skinny until late middle-age. I've often wondered if that could be a factor in our reasonably good health?
We also eat mostly organic food, much of it home-grown or locally sourced.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 09:38 AM

An ecologically much healthier planet...

Though, Ants will eventually evolve to human size and start worrying about their waistlines...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 09:46 AM

"Dairy Fats", wasn't he the notorious pool hustler from Wisconsin?

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 09:55 AM

Ha! Rudolf Wanderone! Or George Hegerman (one was a real person, the other a fictional character) 'Minnesota Fats' I believe.
What exactly does 'hustler' mean? And how does one 'hustle' playing pool?

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 09:56 AM

..ok.. serious then, I gave up all dairy products about 35 years ago,
because tests couldn't prove conclusively one way or another if they cause me eczema...

Heartbreaking sacrifice for a Cheddar cheese lover...

Though, I'm weak and often lapse and take a risk on a tasty cheese treat...

..and don't strictly monitor all foods for dairy ingredients - too much hassle...

I don't smoke, and have cut drinking down from weekly habitual social binging,
to the occasional bottles of cider, wine, and spirits, at home on bank holidays

Does all that self discipline make me healthier, happier...???

I just ate 2 fully fat laden cold leftover pork chops in a lunchtime sandwich - lovely...

Not something I do every week, but bugger it...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 10:12 AM

I sympathise, pfr. I have to avoid stinky, runny cheeses such as Camembert or Danish blue, as they give me severe vertigo.
But I can eat harder cheeses (cheddar, Edam, Leicester etc)

My husband can't eat pork (Muslim) but I adore those pork belly slices hot-roasted. Crunchy and tasty.

I can't bear those 'spreads' (Flora, Benecol etc) or anything with 'lite' in the name (ugh). Give me real butter (preferably Kerrygold).
Most yoghurts nowadays are 'lite', except Rachel full-fat ones.
I reckon they take out the fat and just add more sugar. Crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 10:22 AM

Sen, in the U.S. a pool hustler is someone who downplays his abilities as a pocket billiards player in order to get favorable wagering circumstances in order to fleece an opponent. It's also done in golf and probably other competitive sports. Minnesota Fats however talked up his prowess as a pool player and regularly got thrashed on nationally televised matches by the likes of Willie Mosconi and other more skilled players. Back on topic I don't think MF was overly concerned with the fat content of dairy proucts.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 10:31 AM

I have three varieties of triple-creme cheese in my fridge as well as two varieties of cheddar, two large packs of Parmesan, a gorgeous Somerset Camembert and two mozzarella maxis. I have people coming so I have five packs of thin-sliced ham and several packs of sticky BBQ pork ribs. I've just stacked up on my butcher's pork sausages (it's barbecue season). I have eight packs of unsalted butter at the ready, two pots of creme fraiche, one pot of double cream and two large pots of clotted cream (it's strawberry season). I use lashings of extra virgin olive oil in my cooking though I prefer groundnut oil for my home-made oven chips. I love crumpets and eat hundreds of eggs per year. About four or five hundred I suspect. There has been not a scrap of margarine in this house for over twenty years and there is never anything labelled half-fat or low-fat or "spread." If I haven't got enough fat from the roast to do my roast spuds I have a pot of goose fat to hand in the fridge. No-one is going to check my cholesterol unless they use subterfuge. I will not become a member of the Worried Well.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 12:18 PM

The prescribing of statins to all and sundry has always seemed to me to be a great way for the big drug companies to rake in the dosh.

"Large-scale evidence from randomised trials shows that statin therapy reduces the risk of major vascular events (ie, coronary deaths or myocardial infarctions, strokes, and coronary revascularisation procedures) by about one-quarter for each mmol/L reduction in LDL cholesterol during each year (after the first) that it continues to be taken."

The Lancet

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 12:51 PM

That's most interesting bobad. But I noticed the date of the article is 2012. In 2017, Harvard medical specialists published studies which show that people with no history of cardio-vascular disease (and especially women) over 65 don't benefit from taking statins; on the contrary, they are put at higher risk of diabetes and muscle weakness/pain.

I want your address Steve. I'm coming round yours in my trusty Fiesta, with my napkin and plate at the ready.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 01:00 PM

My one serious weekly health hazard is chucking a couple of packs of bacon
into a big bowl of several days leftovers stew,
and savouring all the fatty salty flavour...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 01:08 PM

My husband eats far too much salt pfr, but I've managed to persuade him to reduce the quantity a little.

For many years we thought he couldn't tolerate dairy foods (some Africans can't) but he now adores yoghurt, and tinned milk.

It's important for him to have plenty of calcium - his bones were fragile and porous after a diet, during his youth, consisting of poor-quality rice and little else.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 01:13 PM

But I noticed the date of the article is 2012

Interpretation of the evidence for the efficacy and safety of statin therapy

Published: 08 September 2016

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 01:38 PM

I'm so sorry bobad for my mistake. It does indeed say 2016.
(And I only had an eye test yesterday - he said my reading/near vision is remarkably good!)

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 01:43 PM

ECZEMA:

I had symptoms of eczema for years, getting worse as I got older. Main symptoms were scaly skin around the eyes and then more and more dry and cracked fingers.
Then came the kidney stones. After an operation to get rid of them I was given a big plastic receptacle to pee into. The examination resulted in the conclusion that I didn't drink enough water. When I made myself drink more water, the eczema symptoms went along with (hopefully) the kidney stones.
So, when consuming them dairy products, consume some of that hydrogenated oxygen!

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 03:00 PM

That's so important robomatic, keeping oneself hydrated.
We drink lots of fluids (water, diet lemonade, milk, fruit juice, cups and cups of tea etc.) Especially in this boiling hot weather.
Trouble is, one has to get up during the night...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 05:48 PM

You really don't have to get up in the night; you can just get a plastic mattress cover and wash the sheets more often.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 05:53 PM

Yeeeeew! Yuk! No no, we aren't at that stage yet frogprince!

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 06:25 PM

You only love me for my crumpets, Eliza.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 06:29 PM

I'm afraid I'm anyone's for a buttered crumpet Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 07:24 PM

I've come to the conclusion that if you're NOT getting up in the night, you're not hydrated enough.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 08:17 PM

I need a statin, since my body started producing excessive bad fat. What that means (among other things) is my diet doesn't have much,if anything, to do with what I eat.
I'm not much good at sticking to a diet-du-jour, and I love dairy fats. I think simply trying to eat sensibly is the healthiest way to go.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 03:11 AM

The OP refers to something I have thought about for decades. "What did 10,000 years of evolution give us that benefited the the population?"

Dairy produce is on that list for anyone descended from farmers as opposed to hunter-gatherers.

Any deleterious effects must come from the volume of intake. Like any substance, eg asprin, the benefits &/or consequences are related to dosage.

Those farmers did a lot of exercise too. Burnt off (if) any excess of cholesterol.

As I am wont to say, life ain't binary - it is analogue & multi-dimensional.

And I read this on Omega-3 which basically says it &/or pills of it don't have any measurable benefits for heart disease. (or other claimed benefits eg with Alzheimers)

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: BobL
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 03:32 AM

Just a short comment on Gillymor's post of 10:22 AM yesterday: among UK schoolboys, the term "pocket billiards" has another meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 04:15 AM

Mr Red, your point is very interesting.
There was a programme on TV last night about the Mesolithic period and 'Doggerland', the North Sea land area between what is now UK and France, before the giant tsunami from Scandinavia cut us off from the rest of Europe (a sort of watery Mesolithic Brexit!).

The people that lived there were hunter-gatherers originally, but as conditions changed they turned to farming.
However, hunter-gatherer womenfolk often intermarried with farmers (who were considered to be one-up on the social scale!) No men did this though, they kept within the hunter-gatherer group.

I was most interested as, like you, I wondered about their evolution in diet and their digestion of dairy foods/milk.

My husband is from an originally hunter-gatherer tribe in Northern Ivory Coast and southern Mali. He has slowly adapted to be able to digest dairy foods. Other African peoples have farmed cattle for centuries (Masai for example) Others have remained as non-farmers (eg Baka, originally called pygmies, who live deep in the rainforests)

I believe there are other populations around the world who cannot successfully digest milk foods and are lactose intolerant (many Chinese, Asians etc).

I am from Irish/Scottish stock, and imagine that farming and milk production would have figured prominently in very early times in these areas.

What no-one has entirely evolved to tolerate are trans-fats,refined sugar, additives, artificial flavourings, preservatives and other chemicals!
By the way, can anyone explain how 'lactose intolerant' peoples manage to breastfeed their babies, presumably with...er...milk?

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 04:45 AM

Lactose intolerance is caused by a reduced ability to digest the sugar lactose in the gut. The lactose in the milk produced in mammary glands isn't anywhere near the woman's gut, therefore the lactose can't result in a reaction there. Lactose intolerance is not an allergy.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 05:52 AM

I'm a bit confused Steve (nothing new for me!)
If a baby can tolerate its mother's milk, why can't it tolerate milk from a cow?
What's the difference between its mother and a cow?
(apart from one has horns and goes moo)
Presumably both milks contain lactose, as they're both produced in the mammary glands.
So if a newborn baby cannot digest milk, it would probably die, unless other alternatives are available?

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 07:07 AM

The enzymes that digest lactose are lost in adulthood in most humans. Only descendants of Indo-Europeans or Fulani retain them.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 07:19 AM

I am sceptical of the hype given to "good news" like this, when the people the news is really good for is the transnational dairy industry.

This is the sort of study that suggested dairy products were a risk. There are a lot more like it. That battery of factual data can not be made to disappear in a puff of journalistic smoke.

Heart disease in Karelian lumberjacks

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 08:13 AM

BobL, as school kids over here in the U.S. we used to accuse the other kid of playing "pocket pool" as a friendly jibe, wether he was or not.
As a vegetarian (and an occasional seafood eater) dairy is a an important source of protein and I've tried skim milk and low-fat milk and yogurt and cheese made with them and found that they made no difference in my physical health, that I'm aware of, so I've opted for whole milk which I find a bit tastier. I think how much you eat is more important than what you eat. Not very scientific but there it is.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 08:35 AM

Lactose intolerance, ie the cessation of production of the enzyme lactase, is the norm for mammals upon weaning. The fact that a sub group of humans (approximately 30% of the population) continue producing lactase post weaning is due to a genetic mutation.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 08:40 AM

Meanwhile in Airstrip One...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/18/dairy-products-may-become-luxuries-after-uk-leaves-eu

I guess we can all look forward to Colby, Monterey Jack and "American Cheese" instead. Anybody here make their own tofu?

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 08:40 AM

I too tend to be sceptical Jack. It's always a good idea to ask oneself "Who benefits from this advice?" when considering the latest studies.
Also, they seem to change their tune later and the opposite turns out to be the case.
I agree with you gillymor, quantity and calories are very important.
And I also believe that a wide range of foods is beneficial, not just the one thing again and again. That way, one has a chance of getting all the vitamins, minerals and nutrients that the body requires.

My husband sadly had rickets and his poor legs are quite bowed. Most of his family are the same. Also anaemia was a problem for them all. (His older sister died of it) He had various tests and X-rays when he arrived in the UK that confirmed his bones were fragile. He was in a lot of pain, but now they're fine.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 09:33 AM

Hi

Gillymor and sen

You are right that portion sizes are important. We eat most things and try not to eat the same things but we try to sread them out.

At the moment I am having to lose weight because I am in risk of Type 2 diabetes.

We have not changed anything that we eat but we have smaller portions. Yes we eat fats ...even crumpets with salt free butter. Margarines etc never cross our doorway. Had fish and chips yesterday another thing we won't give up. My wife is a great cook and her fish and chips are a delight....I make the mushy peas...a must.

We have both lost about 1 & 1/2 stones. I am able to walk better in spite of an arthritic knee. So we walk each day. No marathons for us.
about 30 mins slow walking.

We both feel better for it.

Sen I am still waiting to go on one of the "Healthier Group " Courses. I will be seeing my GP shortly to review progress. So maybe I will be able to find out what the situation with "Healthier" is.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 09:47 AM

The continuing ability of adults to produce lactase enzyme could, in many cases, simply be due to a physiological adaptation in some members of populations that rely heavily on dairy products, a sort of I-use-it-so-I-don't-lose-it situation. Mutations for lactase persistence probably arose several times in different places. By the way, the best mature cheddars contain next to no lactose, so enjoy fart-free! Senoufou, lactose intolerance is confined to the gut only. Having lactose-rich milk in your mammary glands can't get you! Lactose intolerance isn't an allergy, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 10:44 AM

I'm glad I'm not allergic to mammary glands.. [and the mrs is even gladder...]...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 04:06 PM

Asians are the largest lactose intolerant group

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 04:36 PM

Fairy dats? What are them?

Joking aside I am a great believer in a bit of what you fancy etc. Generally I will eat anything and everything and have no issue with moderation. Until it comes to wine, beer and cheese. The unholy trinity :-)

As to statins, both my parents got vascular dementia in their 80s so I was quite pleased when the doctor prescribed statins for me. Losing a lot of weight will help and I am working on that. Slowly!

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 03:16 AM

So if a newborn baby cannot digest milk, it would probably die, unless other alternatives are available?

There are rare cases of mothers who have to give their sprogg formula because the baby doesn't want breast milk. Maybe the sugars in human milk are fundamentally different. Maybe human milk normally has other elements that promote the digestion. And even newborns can select foods that work for them, or not - eventually. That's evolution for you.

And

MJ from the Ceilidh band "the Committee Band" pointed out (as an expert on such stuff): allergy is potentially life threatening and affects the body (Immunologic? anaphylactic shock etc), as opposed to an intolerance which affects the gut and causes stomach disorders (and diarrhea etc) but would not, of itself, cause death.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 03:31 AM

Oooh, that's brilliant and has made it all clear to me!

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Raedwulf
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 12:04 PM

The problem with nutritional science is that we've got as far as inventing the wheel. The infernal combustion engine it isn't, but the General We (Wee. Wheeee! Think what you will... ;-) ) thinks it is because it's the best we've got.

I've said here recently that I am not a believer that we could have evolved as we have without a significant fat / protein component in our diet. I'll go a little bit further, and say that until the "invention" of agriculture 12,000 years ago (there was no "Eureka" moment; it was a long slow process, so it was more an evolution than invention), there is no way we could have evolved to where we were on a carb diet, or even on the modern 'ideal', the balanced diet. The carbs weren't available. Our digestive system cannot deal with unprocessed cellulose - no four chambered stomach, only a vestigial appendix. Fruit wasn't available all year round, we had to come quite a long way before we sort-of mastered fire, and the wild precursors of our crops would not only have been far less productive (as wild fruit is far less sweet than the modern descendants), but sparser & harder to find. So where were all these carbs coming from?

On the other hand, there has been a good deal of stuff coming out in the last 10-15 years that suggests that evolution can make tiny but significant adjustments in an evolutionary eye-blink. It only needs one or two genes to switch on / off and suddenly e.g. the milk thing works (so I think I've read in recent past, anyway). Going back to my opening comment, we've barely scratched the surface when it comes to nutritional science. At the moment, it's all rather medieval dogma. Questioning the balanced diet is likely to get you at least metaphorically burned at the stake. The Sun orbits the Earth; no really, it does! It says so right here & you're not allowed to argue with this source...

The fact is, we don't know very much at all, so the dogma of balanced diet, of calories, of hopelessly crude tools such as BMI, is very much open to question. As for the alcohol guidelines... Don't get me started! If you have an enquiring mind, I heartily recommend a book called "How We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes. He is not everyone's cup of tea, and a lot of what he argues is open to debate. But, whatever your position on diet & nutrition, there is a lot of information in the book. Whatever you conclude, it ought to make you think.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 12:23 PM

Excellent post Raedwulf! Agree with all of it.
Another thing to take into account is our comparatively sedentary lives.
In our 'natural state' thousand of years ago we probably kept moving during most of our waking hours. We didn't and couldn't just sit about, or we'd have starved.
My husband's ancestral village is very remote and the villagers live a basic, natural life in many ways. They aren't as ill-fed as his family in Adjame, Abidjan. They herd goats, cultivate crops and use available materials for their houses (mud huts with grass roofs) They rise at dawn and go off to the fields (women and men) using their 'dabas' (hand tools like a mini pick-axe) As soon as darkness falls they light a fire, cook some food then lie on their mud floors to sleep.
Imagine the calories they use in a day!
I haven't done so badly up 'til now on my chosen diet of meat, fish dairy foods, fruit, veg etc. And I don't intend to change at this late stage - there seems no need.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Raedwulf
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 12:33 PM

If yer've got that far, lassie... ;-)

Daba? Can't find an example on the net, but I'm guessing it's something like one of the two mattocks. For anyone unfamiliar, a cutter mattock has a head that has an axe on one side of a short handle, an adze on the other side i.e. two blades at 90 degrees to each other. A pick-mattock has an adze blade on one side (i.e. horizontal, rather than vertical as an axe) & a pick on the other. A very useful piece of kit, whichever!

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 12:43 PM

In 10 years I've deteriorated from active fit strong and muscular,
to sedentary and fat.

Yet I have no problem at all with 'fat shaming'...

and wish this newly hyped up over vociferous 'anti-fat-shaming' movement
would keep it in perspective and get a grip on their problems...

..and I remember the misguided 'fat is a feminist issue' militants from a generation ago...

Both 'too skinny' and 'too fat' are physical and mental health issues,
and should ideally be regarded as nothing more culturally/politically complex than that...

Any media or crank fashion/lifestyle/body politics pundits normalising and encouraging either extreme,
are the folks who should be hounded, denigrated, and penalised...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 12:46 PM

I don't know of a word for a 'daba' in English Raedwulf. It's a blade with a handle attached, a bit like a short hoe. They have a 'forgeron' (blacksmith) who makes them, and machetes too.

I actually weigh about 12 stone and I'm 5ft 5ins tall (size 18). I don't reckon that's terribly obese, but my sister thinks it's disgraceful!

I'm making a shopping list at the moment for our trip to the supermarket tomorrow. Guess the first three items at top of the list? :)

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 12:51 PM

I'm 5ft 10ins and gone from 15stone of muscle to 18stone or more of flab [battery died in the scales 2 or 3 years ago...]

That's mostly from lack of exercise rather than stupidly over indulgent gluttony...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 11:33 PM

Another perplexing food intolerance...

How come in parts of the world that frequently experience hot weather far more distressing than our current heat wave;
where lavatory provision can be most basic, even squalid...

How come they can eat spicy curries everyday...???

Whereas even just one curry meal treat can have us Brits running to the bog for days...?????

For instance, wife had a meal out with her mates Thurs night, and I had her cold doggy bag leftovers for Friday breakfast.
We are now both severely afflicted...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 04:31 AM

Oh pfr, don't get me started! My husband (as I've often said on here) cooks himself the most ghastly, fiery hot chilli muck. It makes the cats and me cough while it's cooking. How he tolerates it in his mouth I'll never know. I reckon his guts are desensitised by now, and although he 'goes' about three times a day (!!) he doesn't seem to be afflicted with diarrhoea.

If I ate a whole plate of that, the resulting explosions would probably demolish our bungalow and we'd have the Police & Army round in force...

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 04:45 AM

I can eat and drink anything and my guts are unaffected. Except that I will not eat that ghastly devil's vomit apple sauce. Everything else is fair game. To me, food and drink is, er, food and drink.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Raedwulf
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 05:32 AM

I reckon his guts are desensitised by now - that's precisely it, Sen. His system is used to coping with the diet.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 06:52 AM

...and I remember the misguided 'fat is a feminist issue' militants from a generation ago...

I think you don't remember it. If you'd actually read the book you wouldn't have misrepresented it like that.

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 08:37 AM

!981 - 1984 Humanities [Ideas & Society] Degree Bristol Polytechnic [mature student]
I assure you, I read all sorts of books, extracts, and journals like that on the course reading list...
My own recreational and Post Grad reading continuing for many years on that theme...
My late teens to early 30s were dominated by serious women and feminist theories.
That is in essence why I am and what I am...

Even on such a progressive lefty degree as mine
[you can imagine the student stereotypes - and not be far wrong]
where radical feminism was a fundamentalist given core principle;
at that time I took issue with the implications of that book,
and how it was more widely interpreted and misapplied in wider radicalised circles, and youth media...

Whatever positive identity politics intentions that writer had for the body consciousness of women,
the resulting influence on popularist thinking was misguided and irresponsible...

Jack - Your arrogant confrontational accusation is stirring long dormant memories
of the best and the worst of that era in my life...

[one lecturer in particular was a vindictive intolerant insecure shit who relished the power she held over young students...
I once innocently questioned her on a point I didn't quite understand,
and she immediately took offence accusing me of being 'anti intellectual'..what...!!!???,
From then on she had it in for me and made sure I knew it;
trying her best to make me want to quit the course.
I ought to thank her for that lesson in the human nature of some of my middle class mentors and 'superiors' on the left... ]

Subject: RE: BS: New report on dairy fats
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 11:05 AM

Jack - just to help you think twice when you feel the need to talk out of your arse...

Here is a recent obit of one of my more positive influential lecturers,
just so you can get a better idea of who Pfr is and where he comes from...


Jean Grimshaw: a distinctive & significant figure in British feminist philosophy


Good job I'm not the kind of petty pillock who gets easily offended and demands apologies...