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BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages

punkfolkrocker 31 Jul 18 - 01:10 PM
Iains 31 Jul 18 - 12:37 PM
punkfolkrocker 31 Jul 18 - 12:10 PM
Iains 31 Jul 18 - 11:12 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Jul 18 - 10:52 AM
Iains 31 Jul 18 - 09:30 AM
Iains 31 Jul 18 - 09:17 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Jul 18 - 09:07 AM
Iains 31 Jul 18 - 08:53 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 01:17 PM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 12:30 PM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 11:47 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 11:40 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 11:29 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 11:27 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 11:22 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 11:14 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 11:11 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Jul 18 - 11:00 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Jul 18 - 10:57 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 10:26 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 10:24 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 09:58 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 Jul 18 - 09:37 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 09:34 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 09:32 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 09:27 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 09:26 AM
Mr Red 30 Jul 18 - 09:02 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 Jul 18 - 08:47 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jul 18 - 07:53 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 05:44 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Jul 18 - 05:28 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 Jul 18 - 05:11 AM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 03:25 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Jul 18 - 06:38 PM
punkfolkrocker 29 Jul 18 - 01:50 PM
punkfolkrocker 28 Jul 18 - 05:31 PM
Nigel Parsons 28 Jul 18 - 04:36 PM
Mr Red 28 Jul 18 - 12:26 PM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jul 18 - 12:30 PM
Iains 27 Jul 18 - 11:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jul 18 - 10:06 AM
Iains 27 Jul 18 - 07:00 AM
SPB-Cooperator 27 Jul 18 - 06:49 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Jul 18 - 06:09 PM
Iains 26 Jul 18 - 02:47 PM
punkfolkrocker 26 Jul 18 - 02:35 PM
Iains 26 Jul 18 - 02:18 PM
punkfolkrocker 26 Jul 18 - 01:21 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 01:10 PM

All the usual fun and games...

Meanwhile the Liberals are hiding under the table and hoping nobody too unfriendly notices and picks on them...???

Then again we, all sides, could moan rightly or wrongly, that it's actually the liberals who run and ruin the BBC...????


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 12:37 PM

Rather like Labour's travails with momentum and Peter Willsman. Is labour trying to self destruct?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 12:10 PM

Another divisive dilemna for the tories [and even further right wing and beyond...]
is that one 'faction' hates the BBC for various fanatical ideological reasons,
yet the other 'faction' are the establishment traditionalists
who love the BBC for the grand old British institution that it is...


Obviously a simplification, but still a reasonably objective overview...

Poor old Aunty is caught in no man's land in the cross fire...

But it's always fun to watch tories at war with other tories...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 11:12 AM

Quite right I do not do irony especially from a whimsical person such as yourself, or perhaps, more accurately, a capricious person such as yourself. I deal in facts, you apparently only with fiction. Perhaps you are a silly billy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 10:52 AM

Well let's wait and see. And, while you're snarling at the Beeb for covering the raid on Cliff's house, let me take this opportunity of thanking you for pointing us to an item about it in a paper owned by phone hackers. I've said it before and I'll say it again about your links: you never see it coming, do you, and you certainly don't do irony.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 09:30 AM

Here is another old has been, like yourself, pontificating on what he knows nothing about.

Judges for judging

Newreaders for using an autocue(assuming they understand the occasional big words)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6901566/michael-buerk-cliff-richard-secrecy/


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 09:17 AM

Tell me. Do you believe in faeries at the bottom of the garden as well?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 09:07 AM

Wow, what a great source! Conservative woman, Cliff's auntie, eh? :-)

Let's suppose that the due process of law runs its course (a process accepted by all except the Daily Mail, which you often quote, that calls democratically-minded judges "enemies of the people"), the Beeb appeals and wins. Just suppose. Would you then bloody shut up about the BBC at long last?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 08:53 AM

At last a reasoned argument. Will the BBC listen? or squander more public money?

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/bbc-watch-this-imaginary-quagmire-over-press-freedom/


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 01:17 PM

No problem with any of the above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 12:30 PM

Iains - I agree - but keep Cliff confined in this one...

There are definitely serious diverse and contradictory issues regarding the beeb,
and it's supporter's and enemies...

Well worthy of civil debate... [ok as civil as BS can aspire...]


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 11:47 AM

But at core the BBC is still a vital British establishment institution
that surely deserves continued public support.....

Worthy of a new thread I suggest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 11:40 AM

Iains - no one here disagrees that some individuals in control of BBC News are complete fukwits...

But the Beeb is far more value to British culture, than to be judged discardable by the actions
of a [large ?] minority of it's managers...

Remember both the right and the left can find valid reasons to attack the BBC...
In areas that do need significant improvement...

But at core the BBC is still a vital British establishment institution
that surely deserves continued public support.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 11:29 AM

Place your own commas!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 11:27 AM

PFR because as the judge said in his findings that I have stated previously that not only did they sensationalize the story with a helicopter covering the search, but also subsequently entered the "scoop" for an award, thereby creating a further damages award.
No one can deny the search would have been reported, the issue is very clearly stated to be the manner of the reporting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 11:22 AM

Iains - during the 'Russia' threads I began to regard you in a different more credible way..
Now you seem to be reverting back to the cartoonish 'Inanes' persona...

Even if the Beeb hadn't botched the coverage with tabloid style over-sensationalist
helicopter scoop stupidity..
the rest of the real tabloid pack would have descended on the story
with even more of the usual extreme celebrity hounding paparazzi fury,
they are so well renowned for...

It's so long ago now, I can't remember if they did or they didn't...

But for his own reasons Cliff only singled the BBC out for punitive court reprisals...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 11:14 AM

and a touch of the green eyed monster!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 11:11 AM

utter twaddle - not just "twaddle"


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 11:00 AM

I thought I'd nobbled that bloody comma.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 10:57 AM

I'm no fan of Gary Lineker or indeed of any overpaid telly celeb. But here's the thing about the excessive wealth of Cliff Richard, Paul McCartney, Gary Lineker, Donald Trump and anybody else who makes money rather than earns money. They all do it by ruthlessly and capitalistically, exploiting "the system." And we all pay for all of it, maybe by paying more for advertised products, or because we have to pay higher taxes because their accountants can get them off paying their fair share, or because the Beeb/ITV/the gutter press can survive only by hiring them or allowing themselves to be exploited by them. I pay about ten quid a month to Sky and BTSport so that I can watch Premier League and Champions League matches on my iPhone, along with millions of others. Now you know why footie players get paid silly money. Unless you live in a cave and forage all your own food, you are as complicit in all this, to a greater or lesser extent, as all the rest of us. You've been using Google today to fish out your links or find stuff to buy online. Who do you think ultimately pays for all that advertising you see with every click? We all do every time we buy anything. The BBC is an easy target for the brainless because the money chain is dead easy to follow: you pay a fee, the Beeb gets the dough. The Beeb is no better or worse than any other setup that helps these celebs to become King Croesuses, in fact it makes a lot of money selling its dramas and programme formats, just like a good capitalist should. But as soon as they get into hot water we hear the bleats about the licence fee, etc. Well if the Beeb was forced to go commercial, you'd pay even more for stuff, whether you watched the telly or not, because of the advertising. You'd be paying that fee after all, just differently. At least with the licence fee you have a choice: don't pay it and don't watch telly. Easy. I bet some of the anti-Beeb moaners moan as they use Facebook or Amazon or over their Starbucks cappuccino. Another thing about our anti-Beeb moaners-in-chief here: they're Tory capitalists moaning because the BBC actually acts like a capitalist. You really couldn't make it up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 10:26 AM

Proof reading correction - "both flawed institutions"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 10:24 AM

Iains/Nigel - From my position, this whole sorry saga is a sad state of affairs
because I have high regard for both Cliff's early career music
[plus a handfull of post Billy Graham songs]
and the BBC...

Though neither Cliff nor the beeb have my unconditional blind faith worship,
I am happy to continue supporting both institutions...

I'd suggest I represent a significant demographic of mature adult license payers...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 09:58 AM

Pfr allegations of sexual activity with minors, or even alluding to the possibility, leaves a perpetual taint on the reputation of the alleged offender, even when cleared and found to have no case to answer.

This is the reason I take issue with the over dramatisation of the property search by the BBC.

The fact they allow Gary Lineker to politicise in direct opposition to the terms of their charter is entirely a separate issue . If he wants to get political he should become an MP and give up his taxpayer funded 1.7million annual salary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 09:37 AM

This could back-fire on you, if further more convincing evidence were ever to come to light...

If further evidence were to come to light it would not automatically vindicate the BBCs actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 09:34 AM

Iains - now look what you achieved - another post to add to my total count...

Which you can misinterpret as whatever your agenda dictates...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 09:32 AM

Iains - yes we acknowledge you don't like the BBC...
that's fair enough...

You don't need to hitch yourself to the Sir Cliff opportunist bandwagon...
This could back-fire on you, if further more convincing evidence were ever to come to light...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 09:27 AM

btw... postie just delivered my difficult to obtain German DVD "Die Schamlosen"
featuring Cliff Richard and The Drifters...


See.. even if it were to be proven he was a buggerer of young boys,
I would never stop enjoying his classic 1950s Brit rock 'n' Roll records,
and soppy early 1960s pop hits...

..that's real fan loyalty for you... sticking with his music regardless...

..as opposed to blind faith and denial that an idol could ever be less than perfect,
or at worse vain, depraved and corrupt...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 09:26 AM

"where here have I ever expressed any dissatisfaction or disagreement with the court judgement...???"

If you were happy with the outcome I doubt you would need to keep carping on. (30+ posts on this thread by your goodself!)

Actions speak louder than words - so they say!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 09:02 AM

Do we need inyerface policing? Or would we prefer a little more sanguine law enforcement, and news reporting.

The alternative is Rupert Merde-Hoc.

Place your bets now....................


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 08:47 AM

Nigel - hissy fit...???
which party was it who immediately resorted to high price parasitic lawyers...???

Only after the BBC had illegally invaded his privacy.

There is a Christian requirement to 'turn the other cheek' but it often is taken as an excuse by the attacker just to escalate their actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 07:53 AM

Iains - I made no conclusions, I merely continue to playfully consider questions...

where here have I ever expressed any dissatisfaction or disagreement with the court judgement...???

Your zealous bias against the BBC lets your imagination run away with you...

... now as to whether Cliff did the christian / right thing by running crying to money-grubbing lawyers to take it before a judge...???

----------------

Nigel - hissy fit...???
which party was it who immediately resorted to high price parasitic lawyers...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 05:44 AM

Martin said to his man............................................!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 05:28 AM

I'd suggest that someone who regards a two-word post expressing no more than full agreement with another contributor as "carping" has definitely got something wrong upstairs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 05:11 AM

....anyway...

To an objective observer who has dug a little into the background...

It really could look as if Cliff has a long running petty vindictive grudge against the BBC...???
and is now acting like a spoiled diva with a massive sense of entitlement;
spitefully biting the hand that fed him,
that helped make him into a superstar...???

Reminiscent of a lengthy marriage which has turned sour and ended up in a bitter costly legal battle...
where neither partner comes out of it smelling of roses...


Yes, and to an impartial observer it could also look as if it is the BBC which is throwing the hissy fit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 03:25 AM

However the judge made a ruling in favour of Cliff Richard, despite the carping of the last two contributors! Therefore your conclusions are obviously incorrect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jul 18 - 06:38 PM

Spot on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jul 18 - 01:50 PM

....anyway...

To an objective observer who has dug a little into the background...

It really could look as if Cliff has a long running petty vindictive grudge against the BBC...???
and is now acting like a spoiled diva with a massive sense of entitlement;
spitefully biting the hand that fed him,
that helped make him into a superstar...???

Reminiscent of a lengthy marriage which has turned sour and ended up in a bitter costly legal battle...
where neither partner comes out of it smelling of roses...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jul 18 - 05:31 PM

""And for those of the teen audience who actually listen to Radio 1, how would anyone know that they had 'no liking for Cliff's music' if they're not hearing it?"


you're having a joke... right...???

well there'll always be a minority of arty farty students
enjoying a perverse post modernist piss take...

..and the few teens who'd might genuinely like it, are probably banned by strict evangelical christian families
from ever listening to satan's depraved pop music station Radio 1......


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jul 18 - 04:36 PM

From: punkfolkrocker
Iains - I would suggest any career harm to Cliff is negligeble, and little to do with this case.

He was in petty media publicised rows with the BBC years ago
for no longer playing his records on Radio 1 - to a 21st cent teen audience with absolutely no liking for Cliff's music...


And for those of the teen audience who actually listen to Radio 1, how would anyone know that they had 'no liking for Cliff's music' if they're not hearing it?

The BBC also removed Cliff from Radio 2 playlists, where there was (possibly) a more mature audience. Tony Blackburn got suspended for playing Cliff against the wishes of the powers-that-be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jul 18 - 12:26 PM

It ain't the damages, wot causes the damage, it's the bleeding lawyers. Multiply by 10.

I take the viewpoint that the BBC foolishly jumped the gun to get the scoop. The raid was right and proper, shame the claimant had form, but that is the flip-side of fame, live with it Sir Harry. The helicopter and the Beeb was a step too far. And who got the back-hander for tipping the wink? Strange silences in that dept.

When Harry Webb converted to Billy Graham he wanted to be a junior school teacher, Billy thought he was more useful as Cliffy. But you can see the connection made in the mind of a conman.

But be fair, there had to be some form of retribution to warn off would be News of the Worlds (OH OK! Sun on Sunday) et al. And if innocent wouldn't you want some form of advert wot said it ain't so?



Ohhhhhhh Yesssssssssss you would!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jul 18 - 12:30 PM

Most importantly, we all have to keep a good robust sense of humour and absurdity.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jul 18 - 11:38 AM

PFR I think you are mistaken. My philosophy on here is very simple.
I like accuracy and I like contributions that have some vestigial contact with reality.

Distortions and off the wall, away with the faery constructions invite nothing but derision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jul 18 - 10:06 AM

Iains - I give you full credit for honesty - none of this namby pampy David Cameron Mr Nice Guy pretence...

Just proper straight to the point callous disregard for less-abled less fortunate humanity.. that's my kind of tory...!!!

I know exactly where I stand with them...
Like I often say, I can get on with opponents I respect...

...mind you, even now there still remain some good decent people who misguidedly vote conservative,
who would be appalled by your total lack of compassion.....
Though I suspect you might dismiss them as silly soppy tory wets... good for you...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jul 18 - 07:00 AM

SPB Cooperator. Do you bay at the moon as well?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Jul 18 - 06:49 AM

So the poor boy, who is likely to make millions every year from sell out tours, royalties, brand placement is suffering finacially????? If he is starving because of the media coverage, then all he has to do is approach social services or his GP to get a food bank referral. The upshot is he still makes more every year many times over to cover his basic needs, while those who need to make choices whether to pay rent, eat or heat their homes and can't even begin to dream about the social opportunities that the likes of Richard/Webb take for granted. And those for whom TV/radio is their only link to the outside world are persued with impunity is they cannot afford the license fee - yes by all means fine the BBC, but reduce it to a level to which it is needed to guarantee his basic survival after being means tested. say, £1. As an afterthought, before the award was made, Richard/Webb should have been put through the indignity of a means test which millions of people have to go through to secure their rights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jul 18 - 06:09 PM

"https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/2052385/sir-cliff-richard-age-net-worth-songs-houses/

How much is Sir Cliff Richard worth?
According to the annual Sunday Times Rich List the 77-year-old icon was worth £58m in 2016.

The three-time winner of The Sun's "Male Pop Personality" of the year award came 41st in the list of the UK's 50 richest musicians.

Englebert Humperdinck (£70m), Gary Barlow (£75m), and Sting (£185m) all came higher.

The list was topped by Sir Paul McCartney who is worth an eye-watering £760m.

If the Sunday Times Rich list is correct, Richard's wealth rose by £3m between 2015 and 2016.
"


Sort of put's things in perspective...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 26 Jul 18 - 02:47 PM

Some conspiracy theories I find hard to believe, others I wish I did not believe. You could perhaps be correct about old men, or perhaps not. Rumours certainly abound. Who can be sure about anything?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jul 18 - 02:35 PM

..and have friends in high places...???

Who know's how much he is worth... and what value he places on his pride and ego...??????

I can easily imaging an upper echelon of very rich and powerful guilty old men,
who would stop at nothing to leave the world and history with a false untarnished public reputation and legacy...

Saville almost got away with that...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: Iains
Date: 26 Jul 18 - 02:18 PM

Would you risk the estimated £4million he has spent? You would have to be sure you were absolutely squeaky clean or one hell of a gambler.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff hanger ; damage , and damages
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jul 18 - 01:21 PM

Iains - I would suggest any career harm to Cliff is negligeble, and little to do with this case.

He was in petty media publicised rows with the BBC years ago
for no longer playing his records on Radio 1 - to a 21st cent teen audience with absolutely no liking for Cliff's music...

His elderly & middle aged fan base is mostly rabidly loyal, and will support him unconditionally...

He is now an old bloke and lucky to still be standing, let alone headlining packed out arenas...

Which he can still do which no problem...


Considering all this, some might still say he protests too much...???


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