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BS: BABIES left in cars

mg 24 Jul 18 - 07:03 PM
ChanteyLass 24 Jul 18 - 08:21 PM
Backwoodsman 25 Jul 18 - 08:32 AM
Senoufou 25 Jul 18 - 08:50 AM
Jack Campin 25 Jul 18 - 08:59 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Jul 18 - 09:10 AM
Senoufou 25 Jul 18 - 09:26 AM
leeneia 25 Jul 18 - 10:05 AM
Charmion 25 Jul 18 - 10:06 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Jul 18 - 10:10 AM
leeneia 25 Jul 18 - 10:18 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Jul 18 - 10:27 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jul 18 - 11:39 AM
Senoufou 25 Jul 18 - 12:24 PM
mg 25 Jul 18 - 01:36 PM
Jack Campin 25 Jul 18 - 01:47 PM
mg 25 Jul 18 - 02:18 PM
leeneia 25 Jul 18 - 03:49 PM
Senoufou 30 Jul 18 - 04:10 PM
Senoufou 30 Jul 18 - 04:12 PM
mg 30 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM
mg 30 Jul 18 - 04:46 PM
Senoufou 30 Jul 18 - 05:10 PM
The Sandman 30 Jul 18 - 05:38 PM
Iains 30 Jul 18 - 05:57 PM
open mike 31 Jul 18 - 12:30 PM
Senoufou 31 Jul 18 - 12:42 PM
Jack Campin 31 Jul 18 - 01:24 PM
mg 31 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM
Thompson 31 Jul 18 - 07:23 PM
Sandra in Sydney 01 Aug 18 - 05:37 AM
Thompson 01 Aug 18 - 06:12 AM
Sandra in Sydney 01 Aug 18 - 08:30 AM
Thompson 01 Aug 18 - 09:30 AM
Iains 01 Aug 18 - 10:06 AM
Thompson 02 Aug 18 - 04:25 AM
Sandra in Sydney 02 Aug 18 - 08:07 AM

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Subject: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: mg
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 07:03 PM

It seems like every day we hear another story. I can easily see how it can happen. How can it be prevented? There are not too expensive alarms..some will call you or other contacts..some will sound the horn...i think everyone should have them. is the risk of this happening less than having babies in front seat? I know air bags are a problem...there is no way to make a car totally safe...

some police carry those window breakers. i think stores should have a sign that says it is illegal to leave your baby in a car and we will be patrolling the parking lot and we will be calling the police and taking pictures as well as someone breaking in under some conditions...

elon musk asked what he should add to his cars and i said baby alarms...couldn't be that hard or that expensive.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 08:21 PM

It is a tragedy. When my son was young, I was always afraid I'd make this fatal error. Thankfully, I never did.

There are stickers parents can put on the driver's door window reminding him/her to check the back seat when exiting the car, but I imagine in time the parent wouldn't even notice it.

Whenever I hear on the news that this has happened, it seems to me that white parents with good jobs and no accent get off without being charged, but others get prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 08:32 AM

Stickers to remind parents to 'check the back seat when exiting the car'??

What The Actual Fuck??

Are parents today such a bunch of utter fuckwits that they don't know they took the kid with them in the car? What happened to common sense, and parents shouldering their responsibilities? Sounds like another symptom of the 'Someone else's fault' syndrome.

The world's gone mad.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 08:50 AM

Actually that was my reaction too Backwoodsman.

There was a case fairly recently of a PAEDIATRIC NURSE who 'forgot' she had her baby in the back. She parked her car outside the hospital where she worked and the poor little soul died, having only been noticed hours later by a concerned passer-by.

I can understand perhaps forgetting one has left a cardigan or a parcel on the back seat, but how on earth can one forget a child??


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 08:59 AM

Compared with burning up the entire planet with the resource waste involved in running a car, burning up your own destructive contribution to the gene pool can only be encouraged.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 09:10 AM

Whenever I hear on the news that this has happened, it seems to me that white parents with good jobs and no accent get off without being charged, but others get prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It didn't take long to make this discussion one about race!


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 09:26 AM

My only concern is the poor child. Whether the parents are prosecuted or not, are black, white, upper or middle class or whatever is irrelevant. And suggesting it may be a 'good thing to burn up their contribution to the gene pool' is a callous and cruel remark.

The child (or a dog left in the car - same thing) suffers appallingly before expiring. I wouldn't hesitate in smashing the window of the vehicle to try and save the little one.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 10:05 AM

Putting your purse or your briefcase in the back with the baby is a good idea. (Or how about that precious Smartphone?) That way, when you get your purse, you see the baby.

Yes, I can picture the typical parent of today - sleep-deprived, raised on electronics, stressed-out and late for work - forgetting the baby. I can't understand recreational shoppers who hit the mall at midday doing the same thing.

My beautician told me she had seen on TV that if you want to break the window of a car, you attack the lower left corner of the window behind the driver's seat. Whether deliberately or accidentally, the window is weakest there. (This needs checking.) If you don't have a window breaker, try your tire iron. Of course, call 911 or 999 first.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Charmion
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 10:06 AM

It happens occasionally in Canada, and I have never heard of the responsible adult getting off without being charged. The incident I read about most recently -- in Burlington, Ontario, on 23 May 2018 -- resulted in a charge of criminal negligence causing death. The blickifier isn't working right now, so here's the URL: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/burlington-boy-hot-car-death-father-charged-1.4684696


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 10:10 AM

Charmion's link


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 10:18 AM

Here's info on how to break a window, given by the operator of a window tinting and replacement shop. There's some extraneous material, but if you really care, what difference does that make?

how to


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 10:27 AM

Well I had two kids who went everywhere with me, from their first few months until their early 'teens. I was a busy young professional, I worked around 65 hours a week in two jobs, I had all the cares of a young father trying to provide for his family while trying to maintain a reasonable work-life balance, money was tight, I was tired. But I never 'forgot' that my kids were in the car, and I never left them alone in the car - if I was out of the car, they were out of it with me.

I find it absolutely incredible (in the true sense of the word) that anyone should need a reminder sticker on their car's window. It's hardly Rocket Science is it? Common sense, behaving responsibly - that's all it takes.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 11:39 AM

"It didn't take long to make this discussion one about race!"
It would be someone living entirely in a different world to the one I became used to who didn't accept that arrest and sentencing for matters like these are havily influenced by class and colour - The Stephen Laurence Murder forced the police to admit this and a recent revisit to the case confirmed that little had changed.

"The world has gone mad"
I tend to agree with Baccy on that one
I don't wish to make light of an appalling tragedy, but neglectful parents want to hope that their kids don't seek the same retribution as did domestic pets in the US some years ago
There were a number of reports of similar occurrences of car owners being run down by their own vehicles - sometimes fatally -
It transpired that the cars involved were all automatics and all of the same manufacture
It appears that in each case the owners had left the cars with their engines running and with a dog inside in blistering heat while they "nipped into the shop"
The pets were so overcome with the heat that they began to leap around the car and, in doing so, hit the lever which set it in motion
The journalist (obviously sharing my bleak taste in humour) speculated on what the thoughts of the owners might have been to see their own Audi bearing down on them "with their pet labrador at the wheel"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 12:24 PM

I believe a mother in Wales left her car parked on a slope beside a waterway, with her child inside unattended. The infant released the handbrake somehow, and the car rolled into the river. Tragically the child drowned.

We don't have any children, but all this is just simple common sense.

I took parties of forty pupils over to France with two adult helpers many times. I was constantly on the watch for potential dangers. As group leader, I was responsible for all the children and the adults too.
Nowadays I think they do a preliminary Risk Assessment.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: mg
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 01:36 PM

I totally get how frazled, exhausted parents switching off daycare plans can forget they have the baby. I think maybe daycares should have some app that calls parents if they have not been informed baby will not be there.

I also want to rethink putting baby in back seat. Safer from collision..but distracted parents, screaming baby dropped bottle..how many accidents has this caused. How many babies choked? How many sids? I know of one case. Concern is air bags in front infants rearfacing..impact breaks necks. Can we not look at design of airbags? I am just not convinced baby in back is good idea. Of course iam from days ofno seat belts even...


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 01:47 PM

Rethink airbags? Maybe better rubber feet on the Titanic's deckchairs would have helped?

Anyone owning a private car will kill far more children in future generations, stamped under its resource footprint, than they could possibly manage by shoving kids into it during heatwaves. There is nothing an individual can do that will cause more catastrophic destruction of the planet (and nothing they could do to support mass murder right now in defence of monopolies on resources like oil, aluminium and battery metals).


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: mg
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 02:18 PM

I am under the perhaps mistaken impression that aluminum is in great supply but could be wrong. I personally walk or take public transportation...hopefully populations will decrease, people will not have more children than they can for safely etc. and the magicc doloop
Will transport all to wherever in near future.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 03:49 PM

mg, I agree 100%. I read an article (maybe a couple of years ago) about an American mother whose second son died because she drove to her demanding job and forgot he was in the car. I believe it was her husband's usual job to take the child to day care.

She quit her job and tours the country now, teaching about the dangers of leaving a baby in a car.

But if only the daycare center had called and asked, "Where is your child?"


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 04:10 PM

Well, yet another case reported today. A woman left a seven week-old baby in a car outside an Asda supermarket. A sensible woman noticed and asked the security men to break the window, but they refused and said to wait for the Police to arrive. It was 31 degrees outside, so imagine the temperature inside the car!
The sensible lady smashed the rear window herself and got the tiny baby out. He was soaked in sweat and very ill.The mother came out of the shop FIFTY minutes later.
Fire brigade (to cut the car open I suppose), ambulance and Police arrived. The child was rushed to hospital. The Police are dealing with its mother.
Absolute idiot.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 04:12 PM

Should have added, this happened in Birmingham.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: mg
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM

why would they let the mother stay in store 50 minutes? Why was there not something on the loudspeaker immediately? HOpefully bystanders will take videos in these situations in case mother or father races out and drives away. Good to have in y our car a device for breaking windows and cutting seat belts. somewhere there is a good Samaritan law that protects people who smash windows etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM

Some Canadian info. on causes of death and injury to children. I had no idea the numbers were so high
http://www.parentscanada.com/baby/15-accidents-that-can-kill-kids
For the EU the figures are even more horrendous.
http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/83757/E92049.pdf

In Ireland 3 out of 4 child car seats are fitted incorrectly and one third of children killed in car accidents were not wearing seatbelts.
I would be surprised if the above Irish results were not replicated elsewhere. It is a frightening thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: mg
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 04:46 PM

why did not manager of store rush out there with something to break window? He or she is somewhat responsible.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 05:10 PM

I can't understand why they didn't make an announcement on their public address system, giving the car reg number and asking for the parent to come forward. My experience of Asda is that their tannoy is appallingly loud, and never stops booming out announcements!

Apparently, an Asda spokesperson has apologised for the security chap's reluctance to smash the window.

The sensible lady is being hailed as a hero. She certainly saved that child.

I wouldn't hesitate myself; dog or baby, I'd be smashing the rear window and not care what charges I might face afterwards. Lives are more important then a window!


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 05:38 PM

I cannot beieve Jack Campin, is for real.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 18 - 05:57 PM

@ The Sandman. Me neither Aluminum is the third most abundant mineral in the earth's crust :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: open mike
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 12:30 PM

My car has a weight sensor on the front seat that beeps reminding me to buckle the seat belt.....even when it is a bag of groceries or other cargo that is activating the alarm....certainly there is a way to rig a similar device to detect children?


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 12:42 PM

I suppose there are many ways to remind people that they have an infant in the car (buzzers, sensors etc) but why the heck should they be needed? Surely something as precious and vulnerable as a baby should be in one's mind at all times? They obviously remembered to lock the blooming car.

Before we go out, we always take a minute or two to locate our cats. We've never locked them out, or shut them inadvertently in a cupboard or the hot conservatory. We are aware of them and their location. If we can be responsible about two felines, surely people can be aware of their babies?

I wonder if people are glued to their mobile phones and it distracts them completely? I've seen folk wander about in town bumping into things and walking out in front of traffic, oblivious of the present reality. Maybe that could explain it?


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 01:24 PM

Aluminum is the third most abundant mineral in the earth's crust

If it's so goddamn simple, let's see you make it in your back garden.

It's not exactly difficult to find out what aluminium production actually does. It has nothing to do with bullshit pseudoscience like that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35340528

That's far from the worst example I could have come up with, just the first. The bauxite industry's record in Australia is one of genocidal atrocity.

Mining the metals required to make the batteries for electric cars has even worse implications, right now. Look at what Amnesty International has written about it.

Human culture has never created anything so destructive of the future as the private car, and everything that it requires and makes possible.

Own a private car and you're a murdering shitbag. Simple as that.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: mg
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM

own a flushing toilet and use it and likewise.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Thompson
Date: 31 Jul 18 - 07:23 PM

Just finished re-reading Hemingway's A Moveable Feast. There's a chapter about how it was fine to leave Bumby the baby in his cot in the Paris flat while both parents went out to work, since Bumby was minded by his beloved cat F Puss.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 05:37 AM

did the cat give him his bottle, & change his nappy (diaper)?


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 06:12 AM

Presumably he did. A couple of chapters later the three human Hemingways went off for some winter months skiing in the mountains of Switzerland. There's no mention of what happens to F Puss.
Hemingway comes across as a nasty, spiteful, bitchy man, especially in his sniggering chapters on F Scott Fitzgerald, who helped his career enormously and of whom he was clearly deeply jealous.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 08:30 AM

you'd think they'd take F Puss on holiday after such devotion to duty ...


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 09:30 AM

No gratitude. To F Scott Fitzgerald or to F Puss.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Iains
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 10:06 AM

@Jack Campin. My response was a little tongue in cheek. What you say has some truth. It is not a new feature of human life. Even in Bronze age Ireland humans trashed their environment.

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/06/13/where-humanity-first-caused-lasting-environmental-change-new-study.html

My feeling is that to home in on one feature as being causative,is to push the bubble bit. I would like some paleo climatic data to go with it as well and an accurate determination of population density at the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:25 AM

Here's the actual chapter. I tell you, there were no interfering social workers bothering trust fund kids about how they brought up their babies in them days:

==
When there were the three of us instead of just the two, it was the cold and the weather that finally drove us out of Paris in the winter time. Alone there was no problem when you got used to it, I could always go to a café to write and could work all morning over a cafe crème while the waiters cleaned and swept out the café and it gradually grew warmer. My wife could go to work at the piano in a cold place and with enough sweaters keep warm playing and come home to nurse Bumby. It was wrong to take a baby to a café in the winter though; even a baby that never cried and watched everything that happened and was never bored. There were no baby-sitters then and Bumby would stay happy in his tall cage-bed with his big, loving cat named F, Puss. There were people who said that it was dangerous to leave a cat with a baby. The most ignorant and prejudiced said that a cat would suck a baby’s breath and kill him. Others said that a cat would lie on a baby and the cat’s weight would smother him. F. Puss lay beside Bumby in the tall cage-bed and watched the door with his big yellow eyes, and would let no one come near him when we were out and Marie, the femme de ménage, had to be away. There was no need for baby-sitters. F. Puss was the baby-sitter.

But when you are poor, and we were really poor when I had given up all journalism when we came back from Canada, and could sell no stories at all, it was too rough with a baby in Paris in the winter. At three months Mr Bumby had crossed the North Atlantic on a twelve-day small Cunarder that sailed from New York via Halifax in January. He never cried on the trip and laughed happily when he would be barricaded in a bunk so he could not fall out when we were in heavy weather. But our Paris was too cold for him.


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Subject: RE: BS: BABIES left in cars
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 08:07 AM

that cat definitely deserved a luxury holiday!


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