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CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)

GUEST,Peter Laban 07 Aug 18 - 05:31 PM
j0_77 05 Aug 18 - 12:03 PM
The Sandman 05 Aug 18 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 05 Aug 18 - 09:48 AM
The Sandman 05 Aug 18 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 05 Aug 18 - 08:09 AM
The Sandman 05 Aug 18 - 07:04 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Aug 18 - 05:27 AM
The Sandman 05 Aug 18 - 04:53 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Aug 18 - 04:05 AM
The Sandman 04 Aug 18 - 03:02 PM
The Sandman 04 Aug 18 - 10:02 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Aug 18 - 09:51 AM
The Sandman 04 Aug 18 - 08:54 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Aug 18 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,Keith Price 04 Aug 18 - 08:50 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Aug 18 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,Jon 04 Aug 18 - 07:15 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Aug 18 - 07:12 AM
GUEST 04 Aug 18 - 05:03 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 03 Aug 18 - 12:39 PM
GUEST,CCE Critic 03 Aug 18 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,Wuz J0_77 02 Aug 18 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 02 Aug 18 - 11:38 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Aug 18 - 11:25 AM
Jeri 02 Aug 18 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 02 Aug 18 - 09:39 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Aug 18 - 09:17 AM
The Sandman 02 Aug 18 - 08:52 AM
Thompson 02 Aug 18 - 05:26 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Aug 18 - 05:12 AM
The Sandman 02 Aug 18 - 05:08 AM
Thompson 02 Aug 18 - 04:41 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Aug 18 - 04:31 AM
The Sandman 02 Aug 18 - 04:10 AM
GUEST,GUEST ...wuz j0-_77 in the 1990s.. 01 Aug 18 - 10:48 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Aug 18 - 05:49 PM
The Sandman 01 Aug 18 - 04:55 PM
The Sandman 01 Aug 18 - 04:44 PM
The Sandman 01 Aug 18 - 04:26 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Aug 18 - 03:08 PM
The Sandman 01 Aug 18 - 02:51 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Aug 18 - 02:29 PM
GUEST 01 Aug 18 - 02:23 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Aug 18 - 02:14 PM
The Sandman 01 Aug 18 - 01:55 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Aug 18 - 01:33 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Aug 18 - 08:43 AM
GUEST,Derrick 01 Aug 18 - 06:22 AM
GUEST,Derrick 01 Aug 18 - 06:20 AM
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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 05:31 PM

Some things you just can't make up.

Meanwhile over on the session.org:

Trad musicians in Bantry?

Perhaps someone could direct them to the two festivals?


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: j0_77
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 12:03 PM

I hear a squeak in my gears!

To help the doubters on this issue, let me instance how nasty Cultass has become in the US.

Having ruined our open folk jam here, that is they snuffed it out, they set about organizing by committee several things to appear to the Irish-American community to be doing something good.

At one of these events I was given the door by one of their gombeen apprentices because Cultass in their infinite stupidity had put the empty chairless room off limits. I just needed to tune up my stuff.

Now this individual has a long history of belittling the Irish, referring to them as 'micks'. It was only when he realized he could force the few who would listen and put up with his scratching on the fiddle that he joined, and paid his $39.00.

So here we have non-Irish anti-Irish bigoted scumbags abusing the Irish.

It is not so much that Cultass isn't adapting to change as that it is complying with non-musician eejits eager to get more Eurodollars for their own little stupid eejit schemes. So recruiting anti-irish people seems to be the way to go, at least here in my part of the world.

And let me add there is no shortage of nastiness towards the Irish in unexpected places as I very rudely found when collecting OT Gospel music. Still posted on shop doors I have seen the signs "No Irish". So it is not hard to find anti-Irish sentiment even among Hispanics!

Too, since the nastiness of their main bully here, who is NOT a musician but is native Irish, moved onto the net, I and most of the gang that used go to the folk jam do not now share what we have in public. That is, we keep our Irish trad at home and perform American folk out. As I already report we are keeping it secret so that we can keep it safe from the tune butchers and fair-weather types who have smothered Irtrad in crap here in the US South.

Now dear apologists, tell me why I should have any respect for Cultass?


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 11:14 AM

The improvements in my two local branches are more non competitive musical get togethers
if you read back you will see that was mentioned before.
therehas been some inaccurate stupid statements from Jim about Bantry , if jim ever botherd to check his facts,HE WOULD NEVER HAVE SAID SUCH TRIPE ,we all know that Clare is the stronghold of trad music, but to dismiss other place on the strength of one visit and one conversation is typical, if he checked the net he would have seen the two trad festivals, and the major classical music festival,
the problem lies with publicans. who if it were not for tourist demand would book no trad music and book middle of the road easy listening only OR COUNTRY AND IRISH,
noNe of which is the fault of CCE


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 09:48 AM

No you have not. But your obviously not interested in discussing this at all. Good luck with it.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 09:44 AM

Ihave mentioned the improvements already go back and re read


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 08:09 AM

Can you name what improvements have been made, other than non-line tuition. Tuition has long been available, through local branches or Scoil Eigse. It doesn't appear anything new, except in a modern guise.

The central organisation is as political and poorly organised as it ever was.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 07:04 AM

Jim i have said that iagree with you about clontarf etc , i am also saying that there has been some improvement as regards embracing and offering things other than competitons , that should be welcomed, when tey do something good it should be mentioned


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 05:27 AM

No comment - no case Dick
If you are capable of reading you know exactly what those accusations are
If not, there is litle reason to argue with someone who is unable to read what is written


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:53 AM

What accusations,
jim, i have played trad music in bars in bantry over the years, trad at jj crowleys, the boston bar, one of the bars in barrack strett , the brick oven the bantry bay, i live 8 miles from there stop talking rubbish, there are two major trad festivals tnere, plus a classical music festival


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:05 AM

You are still not responding to my accusations Dick and you are using the lack of music in Bantry to evede doing so (nice to know all the Bantry publicans are liars though - I must remember to double-check my change next time I am there)
If CCE is guilty of the things people say they are (heard another yesterday about the ownership deeds of Bru Boru), they are not only not doing their job as a traditional music organisation but they are actually damaging that music
That you are not prepared to discuss those criticisms is an indication that you put this thread up to whitewash their behaviour
If oyu have any respect for the work of CCE or the music, you need to address them - "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" as we used to write on walls in the 60s
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:02 PM

Jim ,thankyou for asking publicans about trad music, many tourists are looking for it but the publicans are reluctant to please them ,they would rather have hen parties of young people drinking double vodkas all night and listening to rock, noe of which is the fault ofCCE


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 10:02 AM

I am not defending anyones behaviour,Iam pointing out positive changes , I agree and would like to see the disappearance of children dressed in wigs and get up , if they are going to dance it would be better without that make up etc and better if it was not in competitions
i live in the locality and i know that you are talking rubbish , I accept that trad music is not as popular as it is in clare, but your statement was inaccurate.
the two local branches of CCE are quite different but are to differing extents less competition orientated than they used to be this should be welcomed.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:51 AM

Dick
My comments on Bantry were passing ones and were based on our own experiences in talking to locals - go tell the publicans we talked to they they don't know what they are talking about
Now - can we assume thay you accept that you accept that all the things I have listed are how Comhaltas behaves?
If you do, why are you defending such behaviour with your silence?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:54 AM

I AGREE about the predatory bad behaviour of CCE, however that does not alter the fact that Jim was incorrect when he said Bantry was devoid of music typical, Jim nonsense.
CCE vary from branch to branch and they have STARTED CHANGING AND PUTTING ON OTHER THINGS OTHER THAN COMPETITIONS THAT SHOULD BE WELCOMED. oF course music goes on in private house some are cce members some are not. JimCarroll sees everything in black and white he over exagerrates his statements and then makes statements such as Bantry is devoid ofmusic based on one visit ,absolute crap


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:52 AM

When we first came to Ireland at the beginning of the 70s, while there were still plenty of traditional musicians around, the music itself was in a fairly poor state, CCE being the only game in town
We came to Ireland in 1971 and went to the All-Ireland Fleadh in Listowel - nott overcrowded and qite enjoyable.
The following year we came again, only to find the Fleadh has been officially cancelled in support of 'The Troubles' in the North
We found a few 'closed sessions' in bars which were held in defiance of CCE's ruling.
Pat spotted Willie Clance, so we moved on to Clare to find him at home - he had gone off with fellow musician Festy Conlon, so we never got to meet him as he died sudden;y the following winter   
The locals in Miltown Malbay decided that, instead of a plaque or a memorial concert, they would hold wa week-long music school in Willie's honour - that scoll is still going from strenght to strenght
It was the Willie Clancy Summer School and the establishment of the Irish Traditional Music Archive in 1987 which turned Irish Traditional Music around and made it as popular as it has now become
CCE was invited to be part of the first WCSS but declined as the organisers refused to hold competitions
Since then, they have played no part in its 46-years of activity
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:50 AM

I think it was Breandan Breathnach who said about Comhaltas competition if Michael Coleman, James Morrison and Paddy Killoran entered what eejit is going to pick the best.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:46 AM

"The mystery to me seems to be that if they are this bad, how come they apparently hold so much power?"
Basically - politics
The president, Labhras O Murchu is a State Senator
In the fifties and sixties they acted as a link between Ireland and those who had emigrated
Irish music in Britain was extremely healthy in places like London - the 1950s was the Golden Age
Comhaltas was formed to formally organise that music and they did so on a competitive basis, which tended to neutralise all the different styles
They got government support from the early days
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:15 AM

The mystery to me seems to be that if they are this bad, how come they apparently hold so much power? Are there not people who'd just start their own, eg. pub sessions anyway?


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:12 AM

"none at all ?, how would you know if it's being played in private in houses?"
You wouldn't, of course - we are talking about sessions where people can go and play or listen.
The success of Irish music today has been built on people coming to it to listen - it has worked
Comhaltas played an invaluable part in keeping the music alive during 'the dark years', especially among the emigrant Irish
Even then, in England I watched many hundreds of young aspiring players walk away alienated by not having won anything.
Those days are over yet Comhaltas persists with the competitive ethos.
The organisation is still very powerful and its political connections give it access to government funding - in my opinion, that money is grossly mis-spent
Comhaltas teachers do an excellent job in teaching young pleople but the fact that, if they are teaching for competitions they fave to adhere to the rules decided from above - this has created a somewhat formulaistic style of playing in my opinion.
THIS PLAYER was a close friend of ours, a workmate who gave us hours of music and information.
He was a volunteer Comhaltas teacher who was constantly uneasy about the pressures from above - finally he had a dispute with them
That didn't stop him from teaching, in London and finally in Shannon.
He didn't need to teach, he did so as an unpaid volunteer because he thought it important
He was a traditional musician who grew up with the music which he wished tp pass on - instead he had to teach to the rule book, the equivalent of 'painting by numbers'
He didn't need Comhaltas, but by God, Comhaltas needed him and many more if it is to produce fine musicians with an open enough mind to acquire not only the knowledge of where to put your fingers, but an open outlook which will enable them to encompass all the styles and possibilities

I have listed examples of how Comhaltas behaves; the seizure of property bought by local campaigning (Clontarf) and expelling entire branches for not obeying political dictats (South London) being just a coupe .
I have yet to get a response on this predatory and arrogant behaviour
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:03 AM

If there's not traditional music in Bantry - which seems dubious - [ none at all ?, how would you know if it's being played in private in houses ? ] - why is that the fault of Comhaltas ?


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 12:39 PM

I don't think they are, to be honest. It's still the raison d'etre of the fleadh and a central part of it.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,CCE Critic
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 09:11 AM

Yes they are moving away from Competitions only, which is good.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Wuz J0_77
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:29 PM

Thanx Jeri I am now under review by Joe Offer to re-admit.

Have to thank both Jim Carrol and the Sandman for the informative thread. Never did get why there are competitions for playing music. Would that be like competitions for any of the other senses? How about a looking contest? Hold up a fried duck and have a staring contest? How about a 'smelly wellington boot' contest for dogs?

Too, up until fairly recently there were no politicians in Cultass, now there appears to be nothing but. And these bozos get a salary! No wonder it's version of the old music is so plastic ( Jim's label ).

Don't start me on Dev's Gaelic Utopia and the dancing contest dresses!

Best to all the Muddies both present and past, loved and lost.

Irtrad is again ss Gandalf puts it, 'safe because it is secret'


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 11:38 AM

I don't know about that. The ones I have seen dancing locally in the full rig out have all grown out of it by now. Relatively unharmed I hope.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 11:25 AM

"Sorry Jim, the curly wigs did make it over here. "
More's the pity, 'Dapper Dan' would have done a roaring trade!
Jim


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 09:41 AM

Wuz j0_77, send Joe an email at joe@mudcat.org to get re-cookied.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 09:39 AM

Silly dress not rooted in any sot of past reality has always been part of the image Comhaltas projected on its tours of the world, its seisiúns etc.

Sorry Jim, the curly wigs did make it over here. As one local woman said: 'they can't win a competition without them (and the rest of the outfit)'


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 09:17 AM

"But are they the fault of Comhaltas or an American import?"
The dresses have always been a part of CCE as I remember it - I don't think the ringlets ever made it over here
Jim


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 08:52 AM

CCE is not just about competitions amongst other things the sessions provide a social aspect where children can play music in a safe environment with their friends in a non competitive atmosphere.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 05:26 AM

Oh, God, yes, hate those horrid dresses and makeup and ringlets, hideous. But are they the fault of Comhaltas or an American import?

Saw a lovely little kid dancing beautifully at one of the Feiseanna/Fleadhanna wearing a pretty black dress and little black shoes with frilly white socks - so much nicer than those nasty competition outfits.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 05:12 AM

Acknowledgement for contribution is fine - when winning competitions dictates how music is played it becomes intrusive, when winning becomes an objective it becomes destructive
It is why Comhaltas has stagnated
The present massive influx into Iris music has nothing to do with winning anything
Pseudo celticism is dressing little girls up in short skirts and invented Celtic runes - pastiche Celticism
TAKE YOUR PICK
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 05:08 AM

Jim I AM LOCAL, Bantry is not totally devoid of music.
The only regular weekly open session is the one i run in Ballydehob.
there are plenty of musicians other than CCE MUSICIANS, BUT none of them are prepared to put in the committment to of running a weekly session which does not involve getting paid, and hasnothing to do with being a member of CCE or not that is the case in the whole of west cork


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:41 AM

I'd be of a different mind, but coming from a different culture - not music-playing, that is.

To my mind, prizes are a wonderful encouragement and acknowledgement of musicians' work, especially for young people starting out. Same with writers and painters and sculptors. And often people who might be hesitant about reading a new writer would be drawn to taste and try by the fact that the quality of the writer's work had been acknowledged by a prize. And I wouldn't be a gallery rat at all, but might mooch along to see a national exhibition where I could sample new artists' work. Same with music - I've been enjoying the Feis or Fleadh (can never remember which is which) samples on TG4 recently - fabulous young players and dancers livening up the streets of towns.

What pseudo-Celticism, by the way?


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:31 AM

Who said how many times I was in Bantry - I was there twice last year on each occasion we were told by locals that there were no regular sessions - they are the ones who should know
The Masters of Irish Music has nothing whatever to do with CCE so why put it up on a thread on that subject
CCE has a music session once a month
According to their own website Bantry holds a session once a month in their own (somewhat clinical) premises
You have not addressed a single criticism I or the recent poster has made of the organisation so I can only assume you have no alternative but to accept them
Any organisation guilty of that behaviour has no claim to representing Irish music
They have even uniformed and plasticised Irish dancing
Over and out
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points (Comhaltas)
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:10 AM

Jim, you were in Bantry once, you made a statement that is wrong which i answered Bantry is totally devoid of any trad music,CCE IS NO LONGER JUST ABOUT COMPETITIONS IT ALSO PROVIDES SESSIONS FOR YOUNGSTERS AND ONLINE TUITION, this tuition is available to anyone regardless of whether they are in CCE. Your statement was Bantry is a town totally devoid of music , this is so wrong ,not only does it have two very good trad festivals it has a wonderful classical music festival.
Jim, you see everything in terms of black and white and you talk shit, I have my criticisms of CCE but what you say is untrue, CCE IS CHANGING AND MOVING IN OTHER DIRECTIONS OTHER THAN PURELY COMPETITIONS


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: GUEST,GUEST ...wuz j0-_77 in the 1990s..
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 10:48 PM

This issue really grinds my gears. So much so that I am applying to Joe Offer to re-admit me to the Muddie.

First of all this CCE, Cultass as many now call it, begun in the most unlikely way.

A few self-helpers in Mullingar Co Westmeath, Ireland, decided in the late 1940's that Irish folk dance music is disappearing due to recorded music, the radio and so on. They claim that local musicians are fading away and that soon there won't be any local music.

Well the truth of it is even stranger. First off, there was not less musicians than before, rather the local musicians have moved to the then common practice of secret house dances/gatherings because of the Church fatwah against young men and women rubbing up against one another in dances.

Second had these heroes been able to collect the ten bob for a bus ticket over to Co Galway, they would have found loads of great trad all over the place, dare I mention Ballinakill, the Cooley's etc etc.

But the starvation economy of Devilera's Gaelic Republic ( Utopia in my book ) is blamed on 'the English' and so the gombeens propose and organize an Irish ( patriotic ... and IMHO idiotic ) music festival, 'An Fleadh Ceol'. Notice the use of Gaelic instead of English in a community where nearly nobody has more than a couple of words in it and even less can speak the language.

So this Fleadh is a roaring success, and with that is born the monster that Cultass became.

Wind up your clock a few decades. Now here in the USA I, a person who lived through its birth and growth, some of it in Ireland, find myself steam rolled into oblivion by Cultass.

Like many a soul with Irish connections, I am madly a folkie, all my life, and I do not dodge the chance to pick up Irtrad when ever the opportunity presents. So I have some clue how to perform it on a few different instruments, principally the Tinwhistle, Fiddle and Concertina. And because my music came out of my family roots, like many of the fine Folk singers I revere, I am a carrier of a tradition.

Too being a lifelong avid collector of folk song I also play the Guitar and later the 5 String Banjo. So I think I know what I am on about with some of the standards of the Folksong era, and its associated gatherings.

So when in my US city I discover an all-comers acoustic jam which has the odd Irish tune in it, I am onto it like a hungry dog to a fried chicken leg.

This happy gathering of nice folks playing all kinds of folk instruments goes on for a few years. Well attended, packed some nights, there is Barn-dance music, singing, blues, Irrad and so on. Instruments include Guitars, American Banjos, Fiddles, occasional Tin-whistle, rarely Flute, Accordion, very rarely Concertina, and the seed of a Bodrahn crop that later blossomed to swamp the event in a cacophony bungledrumming.

But not much changes until I foolishly decide to refocus the Irtrad from Chieftain inspired nicety to the actual Irish Ceilidh Dance repertoire found in the works of Breandan Breathnach. For a short few months folks join in on simplified version of old favorites.

Then when we are keeping good time there arrive the Irish dance/local native Irish culture promoting committee, led by fellow who was losing his keep-fit Irish dancing class to our jam. Ahem...

Next thing I know there arrives a Cultass inspector to our jam, this to presumably approve our efforts performing Irtrad. And not long thereafter we are offered the opportunity to join said organization if we pay it $39 a month. And so to sweeten the deal several regulars at the jam are made Officers of Cultass.

Having claimed the high ground the 'committee' then proceed to drive off all music except their approved official version of Irtrad. They even provide to one of their newly appointed gombeens a PDF of the books of music to be adhered to.

Next, with the jam crowd now thinned out and less folks attending the main Irish born mover and dancer - he doesn't play a note of music except on his CD player - organizes a band and importing from out of town talent - he could nor find it locally - soon has a CD to offer for sale.

The jam crown now all gone, I go one last time to witness the sad empty venue with a donation bucket at the door and a pile of CDs on a table beside it.

During this sad era of the sickness and final demise of our lovely folk jam the pathetic creep who brings it about is busy on-line attacking ME for trying to hold together the tradition I had inherited, so that there is absolutely no way that the jam could be turned around.

And it isn't.

Still nobody turns up except a few Bodrahns and maybe one or two others. It is like my Canadian obeserver wrote 'crap' see below.

A natural musician I had long since found a new outlet for my hobby joining other folk jams and meeting the odd time with folks who share my background in Irtrad.

So you ask why did the Cultass 'take-over' drive people off?

Well it is oddly not so much the lack of variety as the terrible lack of skill among the Cultass players. Some of which are old guys and gals near to the pearly gates taking to the fiddle, or worse a loud accordion. Then, here is a Bodrahn team that can scarcely keep awake never mind keep a steady beat. Oh! and that too is almost suicidal; a sort of jumbled thump once in a while that feels like a car crawling with a flat tire.

A Canadian wit writes about Cultass the following, ' Cultass is not saving Irish folk music, it is smothering it in crap ' With this I heartily agree and sign off a reformed Folkie who has mastered the wise counsel of Gandalf in LOTR, ...' is it secret? is it safe?" j0_77 still a muddie despite all the things that have happened since 1995


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 05:49 PM

I was in Bantry just over six months ago
The town had one pub which catered for tourists, we were told that apart fro events like Masters of Irish Music annually at Bantry House there was no regular music there
CCE seems to have the same presence as it doees in Cashel - they play for each other
Now - answer the accusations I have made about Comhaltas - CCE was your question - not Bantry
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 04:55 PM

cce is changing it is no longer just about competitions, i have produced evidence of this happening in my locality, please stop insulting the people of bantry and west cork, and giving untrue info


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 04:44 PM

Skibbereen CCE, has sessions [not competitions] wed aug 1 wed aug 8 wed aug 15.
Jim you do not know what you are talking about Bantry is not a town totally devoid of trad music, the masters of tradtion festival features Martin Hayes AND MANY OTHER TOP PLAYERS


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 04:26 PM

Bantry is another town totally devoid of music,nonsense.Bantry cce will have played out in BANTRY four times during july and august,
then there is the Chief ONeill festival in september 07 - Sunday 9 September 2018
Venue: Bantry

The Chief O'Neill Traditional Music Festival is an annual celebration of the life and work of Francis O'Neill, a policeman and archivalist who originally hailed from Tralibane just outside Bantry in County Cork.

Born in 1848, Francis O'Neill worked as a cabin boy on an English vessel at age 16 before meeting the woman who would be his wife and settling in the midwest of the United States. He became a police officer and rose to the rank of Chief of Police in Chicago while also being an avid collector and archiver of Irish traditional music.

This festival features both adult and junior traditional music, trad sessions, nature walks, and even dancing at the crossroads. Salute a hero of Irish folklore and get involved in this great slice of Irish culture in Bantry this September.

Event times TBC

Admission Free
General Descriptions
KEY

    Free Admission
There are youngsters all over Ireland playing music for the sheer enjoyment of it, yes and some of them are doing it under the auspices of CCE, This is the case in Bantry and Skibbereen, Skibbereen cce also put on weekly CCE SESSIONS DURING THE SUMMER, this has nothing dp with competitions.
Bantry is not devoid of trad music and that is partly to do with Bantry CCE.
monday july 5 i did a trad music gig in Bantry




, PLUS, more in Bantry Masters of Tradition 2018 - West Cork Music
www.westcorkmusic.ie/mastersoftradition/
Jim you are incorrect and talking complete nonsense ,Bantry is nota town devoid of trad music


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 03:08 PM

"jim, i was out last saturday and saw a number of CCE musicians of varying ages playing in bantry for pure enjoyment ,"
Very rare Dick - Bantry is another town totally devoid of music
There are youngsters all over Ireland playing music for the sheer enjoyment of it - isn't that preferable to playing itt to win prizes?
I am neither knocking the musiciains, nortr the teachers - it's the ****** organization that's at fault
Respond to my points please - if you don't they stand as the truth of the matter
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 02:51 PM

jim, i was out last saturday and saw a number of CCE musicians of varying ages playing in bantry for pure enjoyment ,the public loved it the sun was shining everyone was happy there was not a competition in sight, no one was forced to play they were playing because they wanted to, they were clearly enjoying it ,over and out


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 02:29 PM

COMHALTAS AT ITS MOST PREDATORY

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 02:23 PM

their website
https://comhaltas.ie/about/
"Because we’re so many different things to different people, it can be hard to keep track of the true scope of our activities! You might have been involved with a Comhaltas event and not even known it. ... "


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 02:14 PM

"The fleadhs "
Based on competitions
"The fleadhs 2 online tuition"
Based on winning competitions
"the CCE STYLe"
Dictated by the adjudicators who insist the tha music is played in a certain way in order to win
Refuse to adhere to the rules and you end up as my old West London Branch did when it refused to donate to a political cause - expelled
Shortly after that expulsion there wasn't an active CCE branch in West London - thirty years later that expelled Branch still meets regularly as the West London Traditional Music Association
The Clancy Summer School has turned out some of the finest musicians - not just in Ireland but all over the world
It would not have done so had the organisers heeded the demands of the invited Comhaltas officers to base it around competitions
The cooperation between the WCSS and The Irish Traditional Music Archive has altered the fortunes of music radically - something CCE has singularly failed to do in the six decades of its existence
You have my opinion Dick - I have listed my reasons - you have offered nothing that isn't on offer elsewhere
I have no intention of entering into old gound that has been trodden and re-troden over dozens of times
You want to show that anything I have said is not true - point it our
Otherwise - over and out
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 01:55 PM

That sums up for the the thundering success of CCE,
NO It does not, any more than it sums up the thundering success of willie clancy week. you are quite right there are many things wrong with CCE,
BUT LIKE MOST ORGANISATIONS THAT IS DOWN TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING IT.
There are also things that are good about CCE,1 The fleadhs 2 online tuition, 5he number of musicians who have gone on to play trad music[ we may not like some of the CCE STYLE]but it is an undeniable fact that there is a high technical standard due to CCE andto alesser extent willie clancy week.
I agree that competitions are a double edged sword and have disadvantages.However it is good to have the willie clancy summer school as an alternative.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 01:33 PM

Coincidentally, we arrived home a couple of hours ago from a three day visit to Cashel in County Tipperary, the home of 'Bru Boru', CCE's hideous version of Disneyworld
One of the first things that struck us that the beautiful town of Cashal it a town totally without traditional music - not a single note
That sums up for the the thundering success of CCE
It is, as the vrteran music researcher, Breandan Breathnach once described it, "An organisation with a fine future behind it"
There are many things wrong with Cmhaltas, it's waste of talented human resources, it's "playing by numbers" approach" to music, its pseudo Celticism, its refusal to work with other organisations, its using its political influence to gain funding (its president is a State Senator) then it's wasting those funds of window-dressing dross, but most of all, as Steve just mentioned, its obsession with competitions
Competitions are for winners - it should be no incentive to draw people into a music - any music
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 08:43 AM

It's just me, but I hate music competitions.


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 06:22 AM

Dick beat me to it,I was still typing


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Subject: RE: CCE Good points and Bad points
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 06:20 AM

Dick is refering to

Comhaltas Coeltoiri Eireann.

An organisation promoting traditional Irish music and culture.


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