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BS: VAT Import query

Jon Freeman 01 Aug 18 - 07:39 AM
Jack Campin 01 Aug 18 - 07:53 AM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Aug 18 - 07:55 AM
Monique 01 Aug 18 - 07:57 AM
Jon Freeman 01 Aug 18 - 07:58 AM
punkfolkrocker 01 Aug 18 - 08:05 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 Aug 18 - 08:55 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 Aug 18 - 09:05 AM
Jon Freeman 01 Aug 18 - 09:19 AM
Thompson 01 Aug 18 - 09:26 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 Aug 18 - 10:22 AM
Mr Red 01 Aug 18 - 12:15 PM
Jos 01 Aug 18 - 12:31 PM
punkfolkrocker 01 Aug 18 - 02:58 PM
punkfolkrocker 01 Aug 18 - 03:00 PM
robomatic 01 Aug 18 - 03:28 PM
BobL 02 Aug 18 - 02:40 AM
Thompson 02 Aug 18 - 04:32 AM
Nigel Parsons 02 Aug 18 - 04:45 AM
Thompson 02 Aug 18 - 04:51 AM
Nigel Parsons 02 Aug 18 - 04:57 AM
Thompson 02 Aug 18 - 05:06 AM
Nigel Parsons 02 Aug 18 - 03:44 PM
Bonzo3legs 02 Aug 18 - 05:01 PM
Roger the Skiffler 03 Aug 18 - 03:58 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 Aug 18 - 04:39 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Aug 18 - 07:58 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 Aug 18 - 08:35 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Aug 18 - 08:52 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 Aug 18 - 09:28 AM
Thompson 03 Aug 18 - 09:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Aug 18 - 09:49 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 Aug 18 - 10:04 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Aug 18 - 10:33 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 Aug 18 - 11:15 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Aug 18 - 11:30 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Aug 18 - 03:16 PM
Thompson 03 Aug 18 - 04:02 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Aug 18 - 10:51 AM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Aug 18 - 12:20 PM
punkfolkrocker 04 Aug 18 - 01:26 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Aug 18 - 03:08 PM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Aug 18 - 03:13 PM
punkfolkrocker 04 Aug 18 - 03:44 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Aug 18 - 04:03 PM
punkfolkrocker 04 Aug 18 - 04:18 PM
punkfolkrocker 04 Aug 18 - 04:58 PM
robomatic 04 Aug 18 - 09:04 PM
punkfolkrocker 05 Aug 18 - 01:15 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Aug 18 - 09:44 AM

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Subject: BS: VAT Import query
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 07:39 AM

Wondering if anyone here can explain.

Dad got hit for VA and an £8 handling fee on top for something he just thought he was getting mum for a birthday present from ebay. OK. I suppose these things happen but I’m puzzled by the UK VAT portion of the bill.

Item was US $39.95 on the customs form.
VAT charged this side is £7.89

to get there and apply VAT on the UK value, I’d need to be working on an exchange rate of around $1 = £1.02.

What am I missing?


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 07:53 AM

If an item's value is high enough for it to incur duty, the VAT calculated will also include the costs of postage.

You'd think they'd have arranged to charge VAT on the VAT as well. Maybe they'll get round to that post-Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 07:55 AM

Possibly the reason for the VAT was that ebay were conducting the transactions?


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Monique
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 07:57 AM

This site can explain and you can calculate how much make duty +VAT.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 07:58 AM

Thanks all. I'd imagine the answer does lie in the postage costs.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 08:05 AM

1 cent over the miserly limit and you have to pay vat on the full total of the item and it's delivery costs..

+ Customs / Royal mail handling fee...!!!!

I gave up buying regularly from USA several years ago after the exchange rate was no longer in our favour,
shipping charges increased too much,
and the limit for paying vat was actually decreased...

Making even CD or small musical equipment accessories purchases no longer viable.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 08:55 AM

This may be an over-simplification, but people have been benefitting by buying goods from abroad, often because they are cheaper.
One of the reasons they are cheaper is because sellers in US, or the Channel Islands, or wherever (outside EU)will not be charging you VAT.
This gives them an unfair advantage over UK sellers who have to charge VAT so, except for very low value packages, VAT is charged on import.

As to adding in Customs charges and delivery costs before calculating VAT, why not?
If your local music store sells you the goods, such things as import duty/VAT, carriage etc. will all have been covered by them and included in the prices they set for the goods. You then pay VAT on this final figure. You are still paying VAT on all the incidentals (effectively) it's just that as they're not itemised you don't spot the fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 09:05 AM

The newspapers have also carried stories over recent months of a VAT clampdown on traders selling goods from China into UK via EBay and similar.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 09:19 AM

Aye pfr. I certainly don’t see the final cost for this item (just a twist pen – looks like a kit job but nicely truned and finished and lovely wood) as worthwhile with the £15.89 (£8 of which is “handling”) tacked on.

It’s been a while but I’d probably still use Chinese firms on Amazon for some things. Silly things like a drive coupler I used on my Windmill order. Sort of thing you can pick up for a couple of quid that way but IF you find a UK firm stocking what you want, it would be more like £20+

On higher priced items I do believe a brother priced things up and considered a personal legal import of a particular Chinese phone he wanted (apparently very high spec but a lot cheaper than the Samsungs and Ithingy - but what do I know, a WhileyFox does me) worth while.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 09:26 AM

I bought something from the US for $40, and when it was stopped by the Customs, I was charged €10 customs duty and €10 handling fee. So of course I won't be buying American goods any more. Nor will most of the people who have the same experience.

It used to be that the Customs didn't charge duty (or of course a 'handling fee') on anything under €128, but they have suddenly started charging for all goods they stop. I suppose it's a response to the American tariffs on European goods; and I suppose this is mirrored all over Europe.

What a scam this worldwide wired globalised world has turned out to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 10:22 AM

What a scam this worldwide wired globalised world has turned out to be.
Why a 'scam'?
Do you think you should be able to buy something more cheaply when it has had to cross the Atlantic than you could from a local store?
That would also possibly be more cheaply than it could be purchased in US, as you would not be paying the 'local taxes' for purchasing there.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 12:15 PM

caveat emptor


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Jos
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 12:31 PM

The problem isn't with having to pay the extra, it is with not knowing you will be expected to pay it until after you have agreed to buy whatever it is you are going to pay for.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 02:58 PM

The problem is with "Rip off Britain"....

Music gear is notorious for being twice as expensive here as in the USA.
Even when most of the products were manufactured in and exported from China...!!!!!

This unfair pricing was at it's most obvious when we were getting an exchange rate of nearly 2 $ for 1 quid...

Whatever the $ retail price, over here it would be the same number, but with a £ sign in front of it..

eg USA price $99.99 / UK price £99.99...

That's why in the earlier part of this century I could buy a brand new Chinese made guitar from USA,
and even after Shipping /VAT / Custom's Duty/ Post office handling,
it would still work out significantly more affordable than if I had bought it here from a UK shop.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 03:00 PM

..and after Brexit we can more than probably say goodbye to getting good realistic bargain prices
from Music Gear superstores in Germany...!!!??


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Aug 18 - 03:28 PM

I once purchased a bicycle in Paris from some nice ladies who owned a shop on the Champs Elysees. Since I would be touring on that bike, they gave me a form to be signed when I crossed the border to Belgium. That form gave me the status of 'exporter' of the bike and entitled me to a refund of the VAT that was incorporated into the price I paid. Duly signed, that form had to be returned to the bicycle shop for a cash refund. It so happened that I knew someone going to Paris and I was ultimately able to collect 20% back on my bicycle money.

I have long thought that the VAT was a hideous imposition of an additional tax that made it awful hard for 'the people' to control such things, and allow entrenched bureaucracy to subsist off a pretty reliable HUGE income levied on the public. There's a "DEEP STATE" for you!


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: BobL
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 02:40 AM

No huger an income than that from the purchase tax and others which, in the UK, were replaced by VAT in 1972.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:32 AM

Nigel Parsons puts words in my mouth: Do you think you should be able to buy something more cheaply when it has had to cross the Atlantic than you could from a local store?

The thing I bought wasn't available in any local shop.

I'm happy enough to pay import taxes, if it's clear how much they're going to be, and if I know beforehand. But this sudden tax of more than half the value of the item, imposed out of the blue, is another matter.

And I agree with Robomatic about VAT. It's a tax that only Joe Soaps pay; business people can get their VAT back. It's also very unfairly imposed - in some countries, for instance, women's sanitary supplies are VAT-rated as "luxury items", which is news to menstruating women. And ebooks in my country are VAT-rated at something like 21%, whereas printed books are zero-rated - the best example of a pure tax on art and knowledge.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:45 AM

The thing I bought wasn't available in any local shop.
So you chose to import it without checking what charges you would incur. As Mr Red said above caveat emptor

And ebooks in my country are VAT-rated at something like 21%,
Ah, sorry, I misread your comments above, and was quoting the situation in UK.
Of course, similar rules currently exist throughout the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:51 AM

I bought something only available online. €20 duty on a $40 purchase was certainly a surprise. Tell me this and tell me no more - how would I check how much duty and "handling fees" should be paid on such an item?

It's academic anyway - I won't be buying anything at all from the US in future; but I'd like to have the value of your expertise on import duties.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 04:57 AM

For that information you'd need to contact the VAT information, or Customs information for your own country. I only know about the situation in UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 05:06 AM

No need for me to bother - I won't be buying American goods again after this.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 03:44 PM

And I agree with Robomatic about VAT. It's a tax that only Joe Soaps pay; business people can get their VAT back.

Another common misunderstanding. The consumer pays VAT on the final cost of the goods. The business supplying those goods charges that VAT and passes that charge on to the government (HMRC in the case of UK). In doing so, they can reclaim (in most cases) the VAT they have incurred in making their supply. So they are effectively paying the government for VAT on the difference between what it costs them to make the supply, and the price they charge to the end user. This is VAT (Value Added Tax) they are accounting for VAT on the value they have added to the transaction.
The same is true for the other traders further down the supply chain. So the VAT on the final supply accounts for the value added at every stage of the supply.

So business people can get their VAT back is only true when they are charging a greater amount of VAT to their customers, and handing it over to the government.

There are exceptions to the above when the final supply made is, for some reason, Zero-rated, such as books, children's clothes or new build domestic properties.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Aug 18 - 05:01 PM

I will try to submit a VAT return tomorrow which, will contain entries for negative acquisitions from another member state under the Call off Stock system. This has arisen because returns exceeded arrivals during the VAT period - it will be interesting to see if the HMRC system will accept the numbers, and if it will trigger an inspection!


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:58 AM

I've stopped buying CDs from the US, VAT and GPO handling charges double the price.

RtS


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 04:39 AM

And did nobody ever wonder why they were able to buy direct from US at a cheaper rate than buying from UK dealers who were able to buy in bulk?

It's just like Robomatic's tale about buying a bike in France and then reclaiming the VAT because he took it to Belgium. The VAT refund would have been based on the assumption that he would have to pay VAT in Belgium when he took the bike in.

If a car dealer sells a new car, and exports it (to Outside the EU) he charges no VAT.
If he sells it to someone to take to another EU state, again he doesn't charge VAT, but the buyer will need to pay VAT in the country he takes it to.

Shifting goods to, or buying goods from, other countries doesn't mean you don't pay taxes, it just changes where those taxes are payable (in some cases).


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:58 AM

Nigel Parsons - what exactly is your point - British citizen's should pay rip off prices or go without... like it or lump it...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 08:35 AM

No, the point is that you should look at the whole picture.
The fact that you can buy alcohol and tobacco products cheaper elsewhere doesn't mean that the higher price here is a rip-off. There are taxes and duties payable. You are also paying for a degree of quality control.
The same applies to other goods. If you think you can find a bargain elsewhere, go ahead, but check what you are buying, and what you are paying for.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 08:52 AM

Nigel - do you realise just how patronising you make yourself appear to be...???

FACT: too many products are better value for money and more affordable abroad than they are here in the UK.
From a point of view of reasonable and informed consumers coping as best they can to exist on years of pay freezes,
that is wrong and needs to be challenged.
Not a status quo to be blithely condoned and passively accepted...

DEBATABLE BUT PROBABLY A FACT: It will only get worse for UK consumers afer brexit...???


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 09:28 AM

I was merely pointing out the facts that many are missing when painting this discussion with a broad brush.

The fact that things are cheaper in other countries is why businesses like Primark can purchase clothes from child-labour sweatshops.
That is the reduction ad absurdum of your viewpoint.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 09:38 AM

Nigel writes: And did nobody ever wonder why they were able to buy direct from US at a cheaper rate than buying from UK dealers who were able to buy in bulk?

Don't know what people do in Britain, but when I've bought things direct from the US it's because they're not available here.

But it is a rather interesting question - why would goods bought in bulk at cost price be very much more expensive than the same goods bought at full price from abroad? Do British retailers charge a huge mark-up? They certainly do when they sell their goods in Ireland - there are regularly outraged articles in Irish papers where people have peeled off a euro price on goods in British chain stores in Ireland and discovered a far cheaper pound price underneath, far, far less than would be justified by the exchange rate plus extra Irish VAT.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 09:49 AM

The only reduction that bothers me is the buying power of the weakened and battered old quid...

.. and an unfair playing field of profiteering deliberate over-pricing for UK consumers...

Whatever the over-elaborate global economic theories and mechanisms,
the bitter reality is of underpaid UK consumers being squeezed dry....


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 10:04 AM

But it is a rather interesting question - why would goods bought in bulk at cost price be very much more expensive than the same goods bought at full price from abroad? Do British retailers charge a huge mark-up? They certainly do when they sell their goods in Ireland - there are regularly outraged articles in Irish papers where people have peeled off a euro price on goods in British chain stores in Ireland and discovered a far cheaper pound price underneath, far, far less than would be justified by the exchange rate plus extra Irish VAT.

The same happens in Britain, just taking one retailer where I can speak from experience.
Tesco have different sized stores in Cardiff, and the prices for produce, and even branded foodstuffs vary in each of the three store sizes. This is presumably based on the cost of operating the various stores, Logistics, Customer/staff ratio, ground rent, etc.
Why should there not be further differences with extended supply lines into a different country, and different rates of VAT?


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 10:33 AM

Nigel - btw... Latin...???

It's the 21st Century... even here in Great rip off Britain...

...and.. it just annoys ordinary folks to see self appointed defenders of an iniquitous Status Quo*,
telling us that's the way it is.. and why shouldn't it always be so...!!!???

[* yeah.. I know... It's bleedin' Latin... I was also made to suffer it nearly 50 years ago in Grammar school...]


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 11:15 AM

Some foreign language terms are useful for putting a concept across easily. They are also examples which have entered into the English dictionary.
It's not just Latin. Rather than try to explain the pleasure I can get in seeing the problems someone else is experiencing, I'm glad the Germans have summed it up in a single word, Schadenfreude.

If you removed all foreign-originated words from English we would have problems communicating with anyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 11:30 AM

Nigel - Don't give the most rabid brexiteers ideas for a new post brexit English Dictionary...

It might only end up being less than 10 pages, but still priced up far more than before...???


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:16 PM

An actual example of rip-off Britain in operation....

Several years ago I bought a guitar from a well-known Martin dealer in the US....

MRSP $4,399, less 40% (yes, that's forty percent!) discount = $2,639 plus shipping to UK $200 = $2,839 @ x-rate 1.54 = £1,844 plus c.24% Duty/VAT = £2,286 total cost to me. Sold to me at their standard US price, but with no US taxes to pay.

From a U.K. dealer, the best price I saw was £2,795. Asked for discount, and was told "Forget it".

So, by buying from the US, I made a saving of £509. And, because I purchased the instrument from a North American retailer, I have the full Martin Lifetime Warranty on the instrument, rather than the shitty one-year Warranty that applies to Martin instruments bought from UK dealers.

This was one of three guitars I've purchased from a US dealer, and I saved a substantial sum on every one.

Buying from the US can be very profitable, but you need to choose carefully and do your homework<\u> before purchasing. As someone above said, 'Caveat Emptor'!


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Aug 18 - 04:02 PM

I've been reading Damon Runyon, writing about the early 1930s; a finif, or $5 note, was worth a pound then.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 10:51 AM

For a long time One pound was very close to 4 dollars.
This explains the description of a crown (5 shillings) as 'a dollar', and half a crown (2/6) as 'half-a-dollar'.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 12:20 PM

Nigel, it is not always a simple matter of buying something cheaper form outside the EU, but whether the same product is availble elsewhere, particularly if it has world wide protection. I would also be concerned if VAT on purchases are replaced by a 50% duty as Thompson suggested.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:26 PM

I am very wary that post brexit all the fanatics wallowing in their victory,
will be braying on about how lucky we all are to be free from the EU;
and paying higher prices for most everything
is a small price to pay for our freedom...!!!?????

Just tighten our belts, don't sob over lost 'luxuries', and think of the post war rationing spirit
that made Britain Great...

All those ideologue pro brexit millionaires aint gonna notice a few hundred quid extra here or there
on Chinese manufactured guitars and music electronics gear...


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:08 PM

From: SPB-Cooperator - PM
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 12:20 PM
Nigel, it is not always a simple matter of buying something cheaper form outside the EU, but whether the same product is availble elsewhere, particularly if it has world wide protection. I would also be concerned if VAT on purchases are replaced by a 50% duty as Thompson suggested.


No, I can see no suggestion by Thompson of a rate of 50% duty.

Any chance of a reasoned debate, based on facts?

ps. using Ctrl+F gives a 'find' option, a quick search for 50% fails to find it apart from SPB's comment (and probably now mine).

I also see no reason that something would have 'world wide protection' if it was not available worldwide!


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:13 PM

20 euro duty on a 40 dollar purchase is approximately 50% - i can't be bothered to split hairs to calculate the actual percentage based on the exchange rate.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:44 PM

Nigel - you seem to be willfully ignoring the real world as it is impacting on UK consumers...

I studied and passed Economics A level 40 years ago, continued the subject during the first year of my degree,
and even if I could now be bothered refamiliarising myself with all the grand theories and mechanisms...

It still would not change my educated opinion about Rip Off Britain...

Even petty things like DVDs/Blu-rays & CDs...
The USA and other foreign markets tend get far more value enhancing extra features included,
than the UK versions provide...

These are rarely exported to us due to global licensing restrictions,
and even when they are, the import shops charge extortionate prices.

Then there are the foreign CD/Movie titles that never even get any kind of release in the UK...

That's why canny consumers try to buy direct from USA / Japanese / etc shops at their local prices,
and though it is still expensive and we still get caught by customs duty, VAT, etc..
It will still usually work out cheaper than the UK rip off prices...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:03 PM

Ah, a supporter of buying from abroad, even where it may bypass the laws of the UK?
I guess you also have the means to play DVDs which have region restrictions on them to prevent the films being viewed in UK before they become officially available her.

If copyright means nothing to you, I hope you never produce a successful song/performance which you find you don't get the income from because people can rip it off.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:18 PM

Nigel - you have just exposed yourself as completely noxious pompous sanctimonious pillock...

[but we more than suspected that all along...]

Enjoy your miserable life - hopefully brexit will backfire big time on your living standards...


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:58 PM

...and now the gloves are off..

I daresay there is a pretentious Latin phrase for the smarmy libelous nasty tone
of your post aimed in my direction.....

The kind of phrase deployed my smug arses,
which they deploy
in the mistaken belief they are much cleverer than everybody else
they falsely consider themselves superior too...


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:04 PM

Unrelated issue: In Alaska we 'mostly' have no sales tax as well as no State income tax. I don't know if it is true now, but there was a time last millenium when if I wanted to buy goods while visiting Washington State, which had an 8% sales tax, I could show my Alaska driver's license and be exempted the tax. I never tried this on anything very costly but I remember saving money on a pile of books.
Meanwhile, it's not that we don't pay any taxes. There are hefty property taxes in the main cities. And we have traditionally collected more re-apportionment moneys from the federal government because we are a border state with a heavy federal presence, particularly with some long serving Republican presence in the central government.
Back to VAT: There are American leaders who propose VAT for us. I think it is understandable, but pernicious. Once you go VAT, you won't go back. It is the reason we Americans fought for our independence in the first place, it separates the tax from the citizen (taxation without representation) and pays for a lot of pencil pushers who are not necessary for the regulations they support. It would be a case of a self-sustaining regulatory body. They are paid to install the regulations that assure that they get paid. And 20% is no joke. And with technology you don't really need the bureaucrats. You have computers to maintain a lot of the load, and if you pay for good maintenance, you can get the job done efficiently for not so much money.
The dangers of enslavement remain, however.


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:15 AM

robomatic - you raise interesting and pertinent points about this intenational class of parasitic self-serving bureaucrats,
and their precious over-regulatory systems of over-taxation,
that our snide Nigel is so eagerly defending...

They create their own self-preserving, over-officious, over-complex, hierarchical legalistic extortion rackets,
purely for the purpose of boosting their own social status, and lining their own pockets,
whilst bleeding the rest of us ordinary folks dry...

We have a moral duty as citizens and creative piss takers to tell 'em to 'eff off...

hmmm... wonder what Nigel's profession is or was...???

I'd suggest few sensible folks seriously object to paying fair taxes
that fund genuinely value for money state administration and social functions...

Whilst the brexiteers moan about payments to the EU,
they don't seem to object in principle to our money ending up in the pockets of other bureaucrats..
as long as it's themselves...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: VAT Import query
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 09:44 AM

pfr: You may wish to consider where VAT originated, and who has ultimate control over it.

Oh yes, the EU.
VAT started in UK in 1973 to harmonise us with tax practices in EU.
VAT cannot be zero-rated on E-books, nor on women's sanitary products because of EU rulings.

I seem to recall from the various Brexit threads that you are a supporter of continued membership.
Perhaps you should take it up with the EU.


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Mudcat time: 19 August 11:50 AM EDT

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