Brexit #2

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 18 - 05:02 AM

I think it is time just to ignore him, people. If he continues with the irrelevant abuse it will just result in yet another spell in the naughty corner for him and that would be a pity as we would having nothing to laugh at. Let him carry on posting his errant nonsense but just don't respond.

I shall keep reminding you, Jim :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 18 - 04:55 AM

Recent events have clearly shown that the UK needs a written constitution. We may well be in a no mans land for British government in the near future. Possibly even a constitutional crisis.
Where will we go from there I wonder?
The Spectator's take seems very mild = we shall see!


https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/britain-is-heading-towards-a-soft-brexit-or-a-second-referendum/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medi

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 18 - 04:23 AM

Warblings from a timewarp by our one and only talking fossil!
We have no major producers any more; out-r textile industry is a dream of the long past, shipping is long gone, mining is gone, the Steel industry is gone, what remains of our car industry is based on assembling parts made abroad, the Aerospace industry is under severe threat if there is a no deal exit, the Chemical industry is not only faced with huge expenses from a 'no deal', but environmental groups have described the dangers of a huge environmental problem if Britain leaves Europe, with the rise of chemical "dumping Grounds".....   
And we are expected to swallow the words of a tabloid-level gutter-raker that "British Industry is doing well"
These are the same declines shared by all advanced western economies as demonstrated in a previous link.

Only socialism produces expensive goods that cannot be sold to export markets. All other factors being equal, production migrates to the lowest cost base. An inescapable fact of life and essential lynchpin of capitalism.
Your huge chemical dumping grounds are a figment of your imagination.
Waste disposal is tightly controlled now, and will continue to be.
You are not very good at reading links are you? Would you treat the articles with the same contempt if in the Guardian?
That you cannot accept a link to the Office of National Statistics because it is referenced to by guido is a clear measure of your own atupidity. Do all government figures have to come from the guardian in order to be accepted? What a funny littlee fellow you are!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 18 - 03:58 AM

whatever is going on, whatever next

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Dec 18 - 03:52 AM

More discussion on a gutter-level muckraking blogger, which totally diverts from the fact that Britain is in a serious crisis regarding its exit from Europe - and all our Guidoist disciple can do is point us to yet another a proven flawed article

Britain's economy is virtually non-existent and what is left is in shreds
We have no major producers any more; out-r textile industry is a dream of the long past, shipping is long gone, mining is gone, the Steel industry is gone, what remains of our car industry is based on assembling parts made abroad, the Aerospace industry is under severe threat if there is a no deal exit, the Chemical industry is not only faced with huge expenses from a 'no deal', but environmental groups have described the dangers of a huge environmental problem if Britain leaves Europe, with the rise of chemical "dumping Grounds".....   
And we are expected to swallow the words of a tabloid-level gutter-raker that "British Industry is doing well"
Britain is planning to "stand on it own feet" - what good are feet with no legs to support them ?

Earlier, Stanron listed the reasons for leaving - every single one he aimed at the European Parliament is equally applicable to the British Parliamentary system - the bureaucracy, the lack of democracy, the dishonesty..... all a built in part of modern politics
The greatest lie of all has been to treat Europe as a single entity rather than the 28 states it actually represents, all trying to make the best of a dying system

I have no love for Capitalism and have spent my life longing for its demise, but I have always hoped that would happen naturally and with the will of the people who count - those make the wheels of our existence turn
What is happening in France today is extremely significant - people who have had enough turning to violence because the politicians simply no longer care not the way to go as far as I'm concerned - every bit as divisive as is Brexit, which is based on blaming people in deep trouble themselves for the troubles of Britain

You want to say something Iains, how about addressing the reality of the situation rather than delivering The Message from a Mount of Garbage from a self-proclaimed Messiah who is actually a spokesman for everything that is wrong and sordid in our society
THIS IS ONE OF THIS MESSIAH'S LONG-TERM PARABLES taken up recently by his disciple on another thread
Enough is enough, I think - let's discuss these subjects without the extremist propaganda
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 18 - 01:56 AM

Sound about 1 in every 530 adults is charged with a speeding office each year. As not all adults drive, this is only a rough guide. But it would suggest one or two MPs per year would match the general public level.

I don't think a speeding offence has any bearing on Brexit voting. Tax fraud, maybe.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 06:45 PM

I presume that no one imagines MPs are less likely to be dishonest and dishonourable than the people who elected them. Whether they are by and large more so is unclear but quite possible.

But it's not particularly relevant in the context of Brexit. After all, clearly the people voting in the referendum included all kinds of unpleasant characters, on both sides, as is the case in all elections.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 06:14 PM

https://www.channel4.com/news/out-of-order-politicians-who-ended-up-behind-bars
Got to admit on this topic I exaggerated by not checking the source. For that I apologize.
But the basic premise that there are many MP's and ex MP's with convictions still stands as shown by the links below. Therefore my argument still stands. The list is by no means complete and if we believe Jim no lesser person than Ted Heath should be included (although Iam not in favour of this) The way in which our representatives try to hide their nefarious activities from the light of day further demonstrates their devious untrustworthy behaviour.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-11688002

https://londonist.com/2013/06/top-6-politicians-convicted-for-traffic-offences not forgetting john Prescott for speeding and John Cruddas for driving without insurance.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/mps-vote-keep-identities-secret-14931428
https://metro.co.uk/2013/03/11/after-chris-huhne-10-other-politicians-who-were-jailed-3536565/

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 06:11 PM

If you were presenting the argument yourself, Iain’s, that would not be trolling. But it's not what you are doing in brandishing those irrelevant links.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 04:49 PM

Thank you Nigel, I am not at all surprised by your post though.

So again Iains I would ask you to respond to my previous post:......

OK Iains, let us take just one of the statements you posted:

"84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year"

Now if this correct it is deeply concerning.

So I would ask three questions.

Is it true that 84 MP's have been arrested for drink driving and if so have any of of those have been convicted of the same or are facing charges of that offence"

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 04:39 PM

Ragggy, I have pointed out myself that he is just a wind up merchant, best ignored. It is a sad reflection on the state of argument that he cannot even come up with anything original to annoy people and has to rely on a discredited non-entity to do his talking for him. Little wonder that he gets suspended periodically.

I will make one final point to him though. If anything in my prior post was not factual he can feel free to disprove it.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 04:26 PM

Iains:
In Nov 2012: More inconvenient truths!
The houses of Parliamenr had ˜635 members.
29 have been accused of spouse abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
9 have been accused of writing bad cheques
17 have directly or indirectly bankrupt at least 2 businesses
...3 have done time for assault
71 can not get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shop lifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year
And collectivity, this year alone they have cost the tax payer £92,993,748.00 in expenses (nearly 93 million)

Amazing statistics, and probably impossible. Almost identical figures were being quoted online in 2006, and refuted by The Guardian as the whole meme appeared to be a cut'n'paste from statistics about American politicians.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 04:12 PM

OK Iains, let us take just one of the statements you posted:

"84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year"

Now if this correct it is deeply concerning.

So I would ask three questions.

Is it true that 84 MP's have been arrested for drink driving and if so have any of of those have been convicted of the same or are facing charges of that offence.

As you said earlier, answers on a post card, or preferably a direct answer here.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 03:50 PM

It is a fact that Staines has four alcohol related convictions.
It is a fact that Staines declared himself bankrupt after failing as a financial broker and trader.
It is a fact that Staines is a right wing blogger.

These facts are proven and indisputable.

His blogs may contain factual information but the above facts prove him untrustworthy, irresponsible and biased toward the right wing of politics.

In Nov 2012: More inconvenient truths!
The houses of Parliamenr had ˜635 members.
29 have been accused of spouse abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
9 have been accused of writing bad cheques
17 have directly or indirectly bankrupt at least 2 businesses
...3 have done time for assault
71 can not get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shop lifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year
And collectivity, this year alone they have cost the tax payer £92,993,748.00 in expenses (nearly 93 million)
!
These are the people responsible for 100's of new laws each year to keep the rest of us in check!

Oh and by the way, the also have probably have the best 'corporate' pension scheme in the country, while trying to ensure that the rest of us has the worst!

These are the jokers that the remainiacs try to argue have our best interests at heart. Yet they attack Guido's character every opportunity.

What pathetic point is the shrivelled gnome trying to make I wonder?
Are we supposed to follow his grossly flawed logic and believe MP's make a more trustworthy class of criminal or is he simply full of S**t?
A gentle reminder: the above facts prove them untrustworthy and irresponsible
I look forward to your soft shoe shuffle out of that conundrum!
I recommend Mathew 7.5

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 03:38 PM

Dunno about anyone else, but I'd rather believe a long established, serious, well respected daily newspaper's correspondents than a racist, serial-bankrupt, criminal, piss-headed Right-Wing Extremist.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/30/brexit-britain-crisis-uk?CMP=share_btn_fb

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 03:13 PM

You have had the Economist's response to /your/Staines's latest offering on the economy

OH DEAR! I even supplied the link for Guidos article, and the other was referenced in the text.
Now pay attention!


https://ihsmarkit.com/research-analysis/index.html


https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/foreigndirectinvestmentinvolvingukcompanies/2017

Both organisations better funded and far better informed than the hacks at the economist.

You are not very good at research are you? You stumble into the same holes over and over and over. You'd think it might knock a bit of sense into you or is your brain permanently addled by the impacts?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 01:42 PM

"What a comical lad! "
What a reticent ladf when it comes to replying
Any moron can insult, as you regularly prove - it takes intelligence and imagination to respond intelligently and imaginatively
Staines is a sordid, muckraking blogger who came to public notice with a classic piece of gutter-wading homophobia - he has never risen above that scabloid level
You have had the Economist's response to /your/Staines's latest offering on the economy - instead of responding to it you opt for childish insulting
If you can't respond to it, why not just say so?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 01:40 PM

From BBC live:
Jim Pickard(@PickardJE)

Mogg just told ERG meeting that (having met Nigel Dodds earlier today) his understanding is DUP will only vote against government in a no-confidence vote IF the withdrawal agreement gets Commons approval next week - not if it’s rejected

======
Let me get this straight. The DUP are confident in May if she fails to achieve what she set out to do. On the other hand, if she succeeds they will not be confident in her.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 01:38 PM

I did not realise presenting a counter argument is trolling. How quaint!
It must be a definition unique to mudcat.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 01:28 PM

But it's such good fun!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 01:21 PM

Who's interested in what that bloke sticks on his website anyway? Shouldn’t the old adage "don't feed the trolls" apply in this case. Trolling by proxy.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 01:17 PM

Guido produces a platform to display others conclusions. Very little of what he displays is his own work. That is why I try to give links. Obviously a wasted effort for all the impact it has.

He has produced nothing of note
If he had anything to say worth saying you wouldn't have to rely on him - everybody would be saying it

What a comical lad!
If he produced nothing of note why do the pack jump on his every utterance? Do we assume your demented responses are caused by nothing?
He must say something that upsets you, or are you too lacking in integrity to admit it? Like most of your arguments, it is facile.

Answers on a postcard please.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Mossback
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 12:38 PM

That's Guido Sarducci, yes?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 12:26 PM

"Guido has produces a lot of articles .Which one are you referring to?"
He has produced nothing of note
If he had anything to say worth saying you wouldn't have to rely on him - everybody would be saying it
You have the economists analysis of the present rise - your silence speaks volumes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 12:02 PM

Guido has produces a lot of articles .Which one are you referring to?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 11:55 AM

"OH DEAR! Nurse! Nurse! The patient lives in a timewarp and repeats the same pack of lies every couple of weeks, "
Every time you behave like this you confirm your idiocy and your lack of understanding
Your dependency on Staines is akin to alcoholism
Respond to the points made or make some of your own - even starlings can mimic car alarms
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 11:45 AM

Some random gibberish from Guido's site: let's all enjoy it

Having to follow EU regulations to sell goods to China, Malaysia, Kuwait and New Zealand is a perfect example of a restrictive practice. These countries don't recognise EU standards but the EU forces our manufacturers to follow them. In some industries such as digital, microbiology, AI, spacetech, fintech and others, the EU has close to zero competence yet we have to follow their rules.


More of this laugh out loud stuff please, Ians. 'Close to zero competence' in the EU, which of course, includes us ....

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 11:41 AM

You may have noticed gentlemen that you are being goaded, Iains no more believes the sound bites that guido gives out than you do.

He does believe however he has found a good way to get you rattled, which is why he keeps referring to guido.

However yet again he has shot himself in the foot. Even Paul Krugman in the article Iains cites states:

"Again, I’m anti-Brexit, AND HAVE NO DOUBT THAT IT WILL MAKE BRITAIN POORER*. And the BoE could be right about the magnitude. But they’ve really gone pretty far out on a limb here.

And if anyone does believe that Mark Carney is a clown he is an even bigger fool than I already take him for.

* My capitals

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 11:25 AM

"Look, they're all out of step except my little Tommy!".

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 11:15 AM

More sense from guido concerning the clown at the Bank of England!

https://order-order.com/2018/11/29/economist-won-nobel-prize-trade-theory-sceptical-carneys-forecasts/

WARNING!!! contains big words and complex facts. The remainiacs may require remedial classes in order to comprehend the content.
But of course they will dismiss the man and hence the message. Attempting rational discussion with them is a waste of time.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 10:56 AM

I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt, BWM. What they do with that benefit is up to them :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 10:44 AM

That's far too deep for him, Dave - it'll go straight over his head.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 10:39 AM

It is a fact that Staines has four alcohol related convictions.
It is a fact that Staines declared himself bankrupt after failing as a financial broker and trader.
It is a fact that Staines is a right wing blogger.

These facts are proven and indisputable.

His blogs may contain factual information but the above facts prove him untrustworthy, irresponsible and biased toward the right wing of politics. His blogs tell only one side of the story so it is little wonder that his message is, quite rightly, discounted by those who want to more than propaganda.

Marching to a different drum can be a good thing but dancing a quickstep to a slow waltz tune does little to endear anyone to the strictly panel...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 10:17 AM

If you all continue to attack guido the man, it merely demonstrates the paucity of your counter arguments.

A fact is something that is consistent with objective reality or that can be proven with evidence. Therefore there cannot be an argument over them, unless you wish to question reality. (Something remainiacs constantly do with referendum results)

"The man is a politically devious thug committed to extremist right wing politics
His message in this case, is that the British manufacturing economy has risen recently
As it has dwindled to virtually nothing over the last few decades, it is like saying the dying man is not looking too bad this morning
If you care to check what the Economist says about the rise, it points out that it is more to do with what is happening elsewhere than being a significant rise in Britain's fortunes - a short-term blip"

OH DEAR! Nurse! Nurse! The patient lives in a timewarp and repeats the same pack of lies every couple of weeks, despite being offered constant evidence rebutting his mindless mantra.

The decline in manufacturing is shared throughout the OECD. Manufacturing employment has declined steadily in most OECD countries. since the 1970s, in particular in Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom. As the birth place of Industrialisation was in the UK the percentage employed in manufacturing from say a benchmark year of 1890, was historically high.

Here are some remainiac inconvenient truths below. No doubt some will dispute the FACTS

You will have to construct your own link:
The Changing Nature of Manufacturing in OECD Economies - OECD.org
www.oecd.org/sti/sci-tech/37607831.pdf

by D Pilat - ?2006 - ?Cited by 142 - ?Related articles

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 10:13 AM

Talking of facts, lovely short film here by Stephen Fry. Well worth a look.

Brexit. Facts versus Fears

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 10:04 AM

Anyone else noticed that there's only one person on here who appears to set any store whatsoever by anything that 'Seaman' Staines, the Drink-Driving Criminal, has to say?

The poor sap reminds me of the proud mum watching the cub-scouts marching on St. George's day. As her son's troop passes by, she turns to her friend, beams with glowing pride, and says, "Look, they're all out of step except my little Tommy!".

QED.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 09:24 AM

On constitutional Parliament v The Government who rules, it is The Crown in Parliament which is why the Queen calls somebody to form 'Her Majesty's Government'.

It's all well and good to discuss British manufacturing industry but we hardly have any such thing. People seem to imagine we are still in the 20th century. Jim is right.

Given the information available about Staines via Wikipedia, I think one would be unintelligent if one took anything he wrote or published at face value. Clearly, the character of the messenger is sometimes important in evaluating whether the 'message' he delivers will be fair and accurate. I note that Staines has apparently been advising the Russian embassy on how to use social media.


I didn't know that he was an Irish citizen.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 09:05 AM

A solicitor, having examined the full text of the legal advice in full, suggests that there are only two alternatives - a new referendum or a NO DEAL BREXIT

"the man not the message."
The man is a politically devious thug committed to extremist right wing politics
His message in this case, is that the British manufacturing economy has risen recently
As it has dwindled to virtually nothing over the last few decades, it is like saying the dying man is not looking too bad this morning
If you care to check what the Economist says about the rise, it points out that it is more to do with what is happening elsewhere than being a significant rise in Britain's fortunes - a short-term blip
This is typical of your "Guru's" manipulating figures rather than reporting the facts in full
It is totally mindless to only have one source of information that has proved flawed and dishonest over and over again
Christ - even Teribus had the nouse to try to sell his bullshit
This is just laziness
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 09:04 AM

I've just heard a conversation between two old ladies in a Truro bus shelter.

"This Brexit...What's the point of us voting...They don't take no notice of us anyway...They just do what they want...I thought this was supposed to be a democracy...These MPs don't even pay income tax...and they don't have to use the NHS like us...and I don't like Gemany telling us what to do either...They're very dodgy, the Germans..."

Meet the people who are taking us out of the EU!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 08:46 AM

Facts are facts indeed. And only giving the facts from one side of an argument is known as biassed reporting. Anyone who cannot appreciate that is beyond redemption.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 08:37 AM

Not at the moment. Even the Spanish are taking the piss and being encouraged by the EU vice president. News from guido of course!

https://order-order.com/2018/12/05/eu-vice-president-applauds-spanish-warships-illegal-anti-british-stunt/
All the more reason for brexit.

Who to believe, Paul Staines, bankrupt, drink drives and general conspiracy theorist, or the Governor of the Bank of England. Hard one.
Remainiacs may find it hard, but you constantly attack the man not the message. This is not a very intelligent technique to adopt. Neither is offering a comparison between Carney and the righteous Guido.
One man offers hopelessly incorrect forecasts with a definite political bias, The other is nowt but a hack that makes no secret of his affiliations.
He presents factual arguments backed up by multiple alternative media .There is a distinct lack of logic to hold one up as an example to us all(Whose forecasts are demonstrably false) and on the other hand denigrate a man that presents facts (that are easily verified)
It does get a little tiresome pointing this out on here at regular intervals. Remainiacs must have the perspicacity and attention span of a gnat, besides being unable to appreciate that a comparison between forecasts and facts simply cannot be made. Facts are facts, forecasts largely fiction, no matter how massaged.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 08:31 AM

The stupid thing has been that so many people who favoured Remain have accepted, and even echoed the stuff about how a second referendum would somehow be undemocratic. There is nothing undemocratic about giving people an opportunity to change their minds, or to confirm their wishes.

There is no way in which either Ireland or Denmark are less democratic countries than the U K - in fact there are good grounds for arguing that their political systems are considerably more democratic than those of the UK. To suggest that in giving their electorate a second chance in similar circumstances is deeply unjust, and absurd edgy so.

In addition a fresh vote would reflect the fact that more than two years after that first vote the additional number of people who have become entitled to vote is far higher than the narrow majority that separated the two sides in 2016 - people who have not had any chance to vote on this issue, which will affect their lives and opportunities profoundly.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 08:29 AM

Guido is claiming there would not be a hard border with Ireland on the WTO basis. Here are the arguments that this is false.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/What-would-trading-on-WTO-terms-mean.pdf

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 08:26 AM

Becket was particularly good on Euratom and nuclear safety, deriding May's claims that we can do it all by ourselves by pointing out a) May seems to have found a money tree to pay the added costs, and b) there is a shortage of experts so that even the EU found problems hiring suitable people.

More reading material on the WTO myth

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/What-would-trading-on-WTO-terms-mean.pdf

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 08:22 AM

And here's another piece demolishing the Brexiteers' WTO fantasy

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/brexit-wto-terms-rules-theresa-may-deal-eu-world-trade-organisation-peter-lilley-a8668311.html

In any case, at the G20 last week concerns were expressed about global trade problems.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 08:17 AM

So....any good news about Brexit? Iains? Nigs? Anybody...??

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 08:16 AM

It says it all about Guido that his web page includes so-called cures for baldness. For a decent speech about Brexit, try this

https://www.libdemvoice.org/devstatingly-powerful-speech-from-margaret-beckett-59345.html

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 04:38 AM

I agree, David. To quote a song from the 60s I think "How can you fight if you don't recognise the warning?" The risk is there, it is hopefully not great, but whatever we n3ed to face it and deal with it.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 04:07 AM

I think we ned to take that risk, DMcG, but we need to face them down. As Mosley was faced down and Powell was faced down. Appeasing them will not work, the more you give them the more they want, and if you keep throwing them scraps we will have nothing left.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Dec 18 - 03:15 AM

"Farage has left UKIP"
Perhaps he's going after Theresa May's job
He'll have to join the queue
Jim Carroll