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Brexit #2

DMcG 20 Oct 18 - 03:52 AM
Iains 20 Oct 18 - 03:22 AM
DMcG 19 Oct 18 - 01:46 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 01:26 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 01:22 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 01:19 PM
Iains 19 Oct 18 - 01:11 PM
DMcG 19 Oct 18 - 11:56 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 08:10 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 08:05 AM
Iains 19 Oct 18 - 07:31 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 06:45 AM
Iains 19 Oct 18 - 06:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 19 Oct 18 - 05:56 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 05:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 19 Oct 18 - 04:55 AM
Iains 19 Oct 18 - 04:28 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 02:03 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Oct 18 - 02:02 AM
DMcG 19 Oct 18 - 01:00 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 18 - 11:09 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Oct 18 - 10:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Oct 18 - 09:59 AM
David Carter (UK) 18 Oct 18 - 09:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Oct 18 - 08:42 AM
Stanron 18 Oct 18 - 08:36 AM
David Carter (UK) 18 Oct 18 - 08:17 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 18 - 08:00 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 18 - 07:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Oct 18 - 07:51 AM
peteaberdeen 18 Oct 18 - 07:47 AM
Iains 18 Oct 18 - 07:23 AM
Stanron 18 Oct 18 - 07:03 AM
Iains 18 Oct 18 - 05:14 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 18 - 05:09 AM
David Carter (UK) 18 Oct 18 - 05:02 AM
peteaberdeen 18 Oct 18 - 04:15 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 18 - 02:38 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 18 - 02:20 AM
DMcG 18 Oct 18 - 01:51 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Oct 18 - 08:54 PM
Iains 17 Oct 18 - 01:29 PM
Nigel Parsons 17 Oct 18 - 11:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Oct 18 - 09:53 AM
DMcG 17 Oct 18 - 05:44 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Oct 18 - 05:37 AM
DMcG 17 Oct 18 - 05:36 AM
Iains 17 Oct 18 - 05:30 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Oct 18 - 05:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Oct 18 - 04:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 03:52 AM

There is a lot of truth in that article, I think. I agree it is possible Brexit could make a united Ireland arrive earlier than it would otherwise. But the opposite is also true: the DUP's stance is driven as much by preventing reunification, in my opinion, than any of the proposed benefits of leaving the EU. And hence delaying reunification is a major factor in what sort of Brexit we end up with, albeit indirectly. The "border in the Irish sea" is arguably the biggest single factor whether unification is earlier or delayed.

But some people - McGrath was one I think - were saying much the same as that article even before the vote.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 03:22 AM

Interesting article on the border problem and simple demographics.


A Nation once again


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 01:46 PM

"Some politicians who are very keen on taking back control as an abstract concept are far less interested in the government being in control in practice" is a fact. I am sure everyone on this thread could name some.

And that I find it interesting is another fact.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 01:26 PM

And before you start your smart-arse nit-picking again, I typed 'Horatio', it was changed by Apple's Predictive Text.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 01:22 PM

"Cannot provide facts, so now simply trying to provoke."

Hilarious, coming as it does from the worst offender on the forum. Pot, kettle.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 01:19 PM

Plenty of facts provided on this thread. How about you stop your Horacio Nelson Battle of Copenhagen nonsense, read them and reply to them.

Foolish boy.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 01:11 PM

From: Iains - PM
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 07:31 AM



Cannot provide facts, so now simply trying to provoke.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 11:56 AM

You don't like what I said about taking back control, Iains? Fair enough, do you want us increase government control of, for example,

Railways?
Water industries?
Power supplies?


I find it interesting that some politicians who are very keen on taking back control as an abstract concept are far less interested in the government being in control in practice.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 08:10 AM

And I see you're joining Nigs's Nitpicking Club - when you've run out of arguments, nit-pick what's an obvious typo. The last refuge of a scoundrel.

Standard squaddie barrack-room bollocks and bullshit. Why am I not surprised, Private?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 08:05 AM

And still deigning to comment - not only deigning to comment, but inventing meaningless excuses for not commenting.

Now, 'obscenities'??

I have accumulated a number of adjectives I believe can be applied to you, none of them especially complimentary, but all of them appropriate. I'm beginning to think of adding 'Snowflake' to the list.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 07:31 AM

" upon which the Ostriches have deigned to comment."

Deigned not to comment surely? The last 15 to 20 posts contain no FACTS worthy of comment!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 06:45 AM

There have been plenty of facts given in the most recent fifteen or twenty posts, upon which the Ostriches have deigned to comment.

Obscenities?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 06:03 AM

I see the requested facts are but merely obscenities. That will not progress the discussion one iota!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 05:56 AM

Don't encourage him, John.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 05:50 AM

See - mention Ostriches, and our Resident Ostrich-in-Chief shows up! Any good news from 'Semen' Staines lately?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 04:55 AM

And we may not even be able to watch TV!

Sky warns Disney and Discovery of no-deal Brexit blackout

How will the Brexiteers deliver the promised magic unicorns with no Disney channel?

:D


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 04:28 AM

"Come on, DMcG, there's no point presenting our Resident Brexiteer Ostriches with fact and logic."

Seems to me your fact and logic is exemplified by progressively more hysterical opinions based on postulated outcomes.

But never let fact intrude on flights of fancy,it would spoil the story.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 02:03 AM

'Horse-PUCKEY'!!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 02:02 AM

Come on, DMcG, there's no point presenting our Resident Brexiteer Ostriches with fact and logic. No doubt one or other of them will be along in a minute with more conflicting horse-pucker from 'Seaman' Staines....


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 01:00 AM

Arguably, the "take back control" was a bigger lie than the bus. The argument in short was that if decisions are made by our politicians and we don't like them, we can elected a different set next time. Which is true, but ignores that fact that there actions while in power are not necessarily reversible. In particular if they sell something off to the private sector, it cannot easily be undone. And control of that sector is then largely lost. Equally any trade deal involves giving up some control in exchange for whatever you are getting. Depending on the deal, it might be a tiny amount or substantial, but whichever it can be very difficult or expensive to reverse. Witness the obstacles to Labour's plans to "take back control" of the railways.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 11:09 AM

Yep SRS, that's what some of us keep trying to tell the Brexiteers who are creaming their jeans at the thought of 'Taking Back Control'. But of course they aren't 'taking back control', they're handing absolute control to the people who are desperate to sell the U.K. down the river in a trade deal with Trump's Amerika.

Stoopid is as stoopid does.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 10:31 AM

Save yourselves - DON'T deal with Trump. He's a bully in "business" like Walmart is to all of it's vendors, they just want the best "deal" for themselves regardless of if they drive other companies out of business or harm people in the process.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 09:59 AM

:-D


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 09:42 AM

Slime moulds are ace. They can live as single cells, but they can aggregate together to form multicellular reproductive structures. If you break up such a multicellular structure the individual cells will try to recombine. They are fascinating. Do not diss slime moulds by comparing them with Michael Gove.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 08:42 AM

I have lost either the plot or the will to live. Time for a bit of light relief.

It is the year 2137. Brexit has still not happened. Theresa May is still prime minister

Unfortunately we still have to put up with Boris Johnson because he lives on as an artificial intelligence synthesised from his Telegraph columns.

Michael Gove is still waiting his turn too, although he’ll be an unusual prime minister because he’s mutated into an immortal slime mould colony.


:D


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Stanron
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 08:36 AM

Dave the Gnome wrote: Are you quite sure about that, Stanron?
In the UK section of this forum they/you are not a small minority, they/you are a highly vocal majority.

In the real world we may have to wait for four years for the next General Election to prove me right or wrong.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 08:17 AM

Most of the Americans I know would like the US agro-industrial complex to adopt food hygiene and animal welfare standards more like those of the EU than the ones they get away with now. And in the UK this is not the view of a small minority, it is the view of the majority, particularly of educated people.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 08:00 AM

A few facts for our Brexit Ostriches to be in denial over...


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 07:55 AM

Is The Times newspaper sufficiently authoritative...??

Or is this something else that our resident BrexShit Ostriches will cheerfully bury their heads in the sand over?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 07:51 AM

Are you quite sure about that, Stanron?

Revealed: rightwing groups plot to ditch EU safety standards on food and drugs

I know many Americans who are just as concerned with the profit over safety principle.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 07:47 AM

certainly not the views of a small minority in the UK - many of us are rightly doubt the wisdom of throwing ourselves at the current US government in the hope of getting a favourable trade deal. the president has made it very clear it is AMERICA FIRST!!!! from now on and has no reason to give anything like a good deal to a failing nation on the edge of the richest trading bloke of the world


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 07:23 AM

I presume this is a fearmongering reference to washed chickens.
chlorine
A Trade agreement is one thing,sorting out the nitty gritty detail is another.
and surely the function of an opposition party is to highlight any such concerns and to fight for whatever may be deemed the best solution.
As the article explains there are very good reasons for the chlorine wash. The EU taking it as an excuse for unproven detrimental practices and poor husbandry is simply hysterical protectionism at its worst.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Stanron
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 07:03 AM

Here in the UK we may on occasion forget that the origins of this forum are American. For our American friends I would like to point out that the ideas expressed in the post of

18 Oct 18 - 05:02 AM

are NOT universally accepted in the UK. It is the view of a small minority.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 05:14 AM

"This needs repeating over and over Backwoodsman, brexiters looking to a trade deal with the US are playing Russian Roulette with the health of our children."
I presume a few facts to justify the above statement is not an unreasonable request?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 05:09 AM

Amen, David.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 05:02 AM

This needs repeating over and over Backwoodsman, brexiters looking to a trade deal with the US are playing Russian Roulette with the health of our children.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 04:15 AM

if everybody just ignored our politicians - they would probably just forget about it

'oh yes, i remember that brexit thing...it was about backstopping or something wasn't it? all seems a bit silly now, doesn't it?'


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 02:38 AM

Anybody looking forward to our new trade deal with the US?

Eeeeeeeuuugghh!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 02:20 AM

Anybody remember, a couple of years ago, Liam Fox saying that the Brexit agreement would be "The easiest deal ever"?

Bwwwaaaaaaaaaaa-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaahhhh!!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 01:51 AM

Not forgetting that we are considering extending the transition for a year to prevent a backstop we won't agree to taking effect. Which it can't anyway unless we agree to it.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 08:54 PM

Eggsactly so.
....

This should be the point in this Monty Python sketch of a Breggsit when someone steps up and says "That's enough. It's getting too silly" and we move on to Something Completely Different.

The Backstop stuff is a silly joke too far. The British government signs up to a backstop solution involving checks on goods from Northern Ireland (with its fingers crossed because it doesn't mean it), so as to be able to keep talking about other stuff, and then declares it is all off, and complains that the EU is refusing to play fair because it wants to stick to what had been agreed nearly a year ago.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 01:29 PM

There is nothing worse than being eggbound!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 11:42 AM

Never mind the eggs that are already consolidated within the cake. I just want to be sure that we've stopped providing ingredients for future cakes.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 09:53 AM

This wonderful gem courtesy of Gary Bainbridge:

LEAVER: I want an omelette.

REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.

LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]

REMAINER: They’re in the cake.

LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.

REMAINER: But we voted in 1974 to put them into a cake.

LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.

REMAINER: Icing is good.

LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.

DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.

DAVID CAMERON: OK.

DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.

LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?

REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.

LEAVER: Well, get them out.

EU: It’s our cake.

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.

REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?

LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.

REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?

LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.

THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.

REMAINER: How?

THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.

REMAINER: Yeah, but…

LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.

EU: It’s our cake.

REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.

LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.

REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.

LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.

REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?

LEAVER: You lost, get over it.

THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.

REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?

THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.

REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.

EU: It’s our cake.

LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.

REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.

LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.

REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.

LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 05:44 AM

That's awful news, Keith. I will post to the other thread as well.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 05:37 AM

No more from me folks.
See my chemotherapy thread.
keith.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 05:36 AM

The ambiguity was all in the destination after voting leave. Many a couple has amicably agreed to go out for the evening then ended up sitting grumpily in front of the TV at home because they could not agree where they would go out *to*. Deciding to leave something or voting for change is easy: the hard part is always agreeing what the change should be.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 05:30 AM

Until we have some signed agreements with the EU, both sides are going to post more and more scary scenarios in order to attempt to change and enforce Mp's opinion to their particular stance. It is hard to discuss potential outcomes until negotiations have made some progress and tangible outcomes can be given some kind of precision. Until that time the argument swings back and forth with no progress. One thing we can be sure of, It will not be a land of milk and honey on one side nor off to hell in a handcart on the other. The outcomes so far discussed are but possibilities.

The referendum was a simple cross to one of two questions:
The ballot paper which will allow voters to cast their vote on the future of the UK's relationship with the EU has been published by the government. It asks people if they would like to remain or leave the European Union and to choose their option by placing a cross in one of two boxes

It seemed pretty unambiguous to me at the time. There was no requirement to justify the vote. There was in my view no degrees of leaving. We were to remain
shackled or not shackled, not partially shackled(as seems a strong
possibility)

My feeling is that the democratic vote will be betrayed yet again by our weasel mps. Where this will lead is anybodies guess. The fact we have been/are fighting wars in several countries without public discussion of consent admirably demonstrates the utter contempt Mps have for their electorate and their opinions.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 05:08 AM

"Cheerfully ignoring the fact that many people were calling for us to leave the EU long before the slogans were written, or the big red bus even thought about."

Ah, you're right, I'd forgotten about the lengthy propaganda campaign in the Express, Torygraph, and The Daily Heil, fighting the corner for their immensely wealthy, tax-avoiding owners.

And there's nothing 'cheerful' about the utter debacle we've been landed with by the Leave voters.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 04:40 AM

Not just the economic effects.

For those who think that this will only affect the economy, a pretty good summary by Melvyn Bragg in the House of Lords the other day. It is a direct link to the Hansard record and the rest of the debate follows. I have only skimmed the rest but what I have seen does not seem to allay fears in any meaningful way.


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