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Brexit #2

Steve Shaw 12 Dec 18 - 05:51 PM
Iains 12 Dec 18 - 05:31 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Dec 18 - 05:30 PM
DMcG 12 Dec 18 - 05:29 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 18 - 05:27 PM
Iains 12 Dec 18 - 05:02 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Dec 18 - 04:49 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Dec 18 - 04:40 PM
Donuel 12 Dec 18 - 04:34 PM
Raggytash 12 Dec 18 - 04:21 PM
DMcG 12 Dec 18 - 04:13 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Dec 18 - 03:59 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Dec 18 - 11:11 AM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Dec 18 - 10:45 AM
Iains 12 Dec 18 - 09:56 AM
Iains 12 Dec 18 - 09:52 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Dec 18 - 09:22 AM
KarenH 12 Dec 18 - 08:37 AM
KarenH 12 Dec 18 - 08:36 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Dec 18 - 08:14 AM
Iains 12 Dec 18 - 08:05 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 18 - 07:51 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 18 - 07:40 AM
KarenH 12 Dec 18 - 07:36 AM
KarenH 12 Dec 18 - 07:02 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Dec 18 - 06:57 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Dec 18 - 05:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Dec 18 - 05:35 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 18 - 05:34 AM
Iains 12 Dec 18 - 04:54 AM
Iains 12 Dec 18 - 04:34 AM
DMcG 12 Dec 18 - 03:23 AM
DMcG 12 Dec 18 - 03:19 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Dec 18 - 02:32 AM
The Sandman 12 Dec 18 - 02:12 AM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Dec 18 - 01:43 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Dec 18 - 01:37 PM
Backwoodsman 10 Dec 18 - 01:05 PM
DMcG 10 Dec 18 - 12:52 PM
Iains 10 Dec 18 - 11:34 AM
Iains 10 Dec 18 - 10:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Dec 18 - 09:58 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Dec 18 - 09:52 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Dec 18 - 09:42 AM
Iains 10 Dec 18 - 09:34 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Dec 18 - 09:16 AM
Iains 10 Dec 18 - 09:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Dec 18 - 09:06 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Dec 18 - 08:59 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Dec 18 - 08:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:51 PM

She is damaged Tory goods only if there is a credible successor waiting in the wings. Which there isn't. She is damaged in the country, that's for sure. But she was anyway. Nothing has changed, frankly.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:31 PM

As the May vote had around 140 spineless mps on the government payroll, then adopting remainiacs logic. May lost by a vote of approx. 100 to 50.
I think she is damaged goods no matter how the spinmeisters present it.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:30 PM

Despite the fact that she on with a reasonable majority, Lord Snooty and the Bash Street Brexiteers are demanding that she resign
"Yes means yes" only when it suits some people, it would appear
What a friggin' shower of articulated arseholes
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:29 PM

I am sure you will cope with the disappointment."
With the growth of career politicians the result is no real surprise.


Interesting. So you think when a Tory MP is focused on progressing their career - which necessarily includes future elections and judgement by voters - they think their best bet is to stick with Teresa May.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:27 PM

"There can be no march to federalism while the UK is a member of the EU. Do you ever listen?"

"Are you trying to convince me or yourself, by endless repetition?"

Neither. I'm trying to get through those cloth ears of yours to whatever resides within your cranium that no major shift in direction, policy or law can be pushed through, as long as we are members, and as a large and influential member state, without our consent. Veto is a four-letter word in your lexicon, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:02 PM

"I am sure you will cope with the disappointment."
With the growth of career politicians the result is no real surprise.

By the way certain versions of the backstop, if implemented, would in my view be treasonous by way of depriving the sovereign of her crown.
(Crown of Ireland Act 1542:)


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 04:49 PM

When (not "if") Labour puts a motion of no confidence, it will all be down to the UDP. If they abstain the motion should pass. And with Theresa May still intent on her deal, with the non-exit backstop, the DUP can be expected to abstain.

And there is no prospect of the EU (especially Ireland) giving way on that part of the backstop.

Stuff about the EU being unreasonable in negotiating doesn't stand up to examination. It's the reverse, if anything, far more flexible than the UK. A year ago the UK essentially agreed to the backstop, to continue until and unless some alternative could be cobbled together to provide a permanent guarantee against a hard border, and did so specially in order to allow other negotiations to proceed - then after going ahead with those negotiations it has tried to backslide on it.

The £39 billion isn't a charge for an agreed withdrawal which can be dispensed with in a no deal exit, it's a debt which we'd be duty bound to pay however we leave. If the UK defaulted on that debt it would be acting illegally, and would do enormous damage to it's reputation. Financially it would be a rogue state, and no one would be likely to trust it. The old label "Perfidious Albion" would be revived, and justly so. And this would be a country hoping to set up favourable trade agreements round the world?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 04:40 PM

There's far too much of this 'treason' shite from Brexiteers. I've lost count of the times Brexiteers have told me I should be 'arrested, marched out, and shot for treason'. Clearly, their intellect doesn't extend to an understanding of what the offence of treason actually consists of.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 04:34 PM

She LIVES !


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 04:21 PM

It is also revealing that some Brexiteers have only VERY recently started to refer to Teresa May as Treason May.

What price loyalty?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 04:13 PM

If Treason May survives I will be very disappointed.

I am sure you will cope with the disappointment.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 03:59 PM

At a time of National Crisis, it's interesting and revealing to see that the party of greed and selfishness is continuing to put its own interests above those of the nation...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/12/national-crisis-pointless-tory-feud-brexit?CMP=fb_gu


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 11:11 AM

All politics and economics is based on Predictions - society would have ground to a halt centuries ago without them
When asked what are the benefits of leaving Europe, the only thing we are given is a list of E.U. 'flaws' that equally apply to British Parliamentary politics
Leaving Europe would be a totally unplanned leap in the dark
Jim Carroll
I have to say that Guido's Little Helper is working very hard for his fee


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 10:45 AM

Trouble is there is a lack of evidenced predictions for the alternative hypothesis that a hard brexit won't cause any damage. The point is if we wait and see if the damage will happen, then that damage can't be undone immediately if it does happen. Similar to predicting that kicking a ball at the front of a house could break a window. Would anyone say - lets wait for proof that a window will break before taking measures to prevent the window breaking?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 09:56 AM

Smoking ruins if she remains! Analysis by guido's gurus.

https://order-order.com/2018/12/12/tory-mps-worry-keeping-may-lead-party-electoral-disaster/


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 09:52 AM

There is a vast gulf between an opposition vote of no confidence in the government and a party vote of no confidence in the PM. Only in the former case does the monarchy have involvement. The leader that can demonstrate a majority is automatically rubber stamped by the monarchy.
"The Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 sets the interval between general elections at five years. At the end of this time a new House of Commons must be elected.

However, there are two provisions that trigger an election other than at five year intervals:

    a motion of no confidence is passed in Her Majesty's Government by a simple majority and 14 days elapses without the House passing a confidence motion in any new Government formed
    a motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats (currently 434 out of 650)"

"The economic predictions that a hard Brexit will damage Britain's economy for decades"

Operative word PREDICTION!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 09:22 AM

"Not sure this 'when she's gone, she's gone' is quite right, Jim."
Neither am I Karen, but this is the situation being outlined by Maggie May and the news commentators at present - it is one of her main arguments for staying in office.
Maybe its political bluff - anything seems possible nowadays.

Whatever happens, if Brexit is forced through it will leave behind a deeply divided Government and a deeply divided people - not a situation in which to plan to 'go it alone' - (good basis for a good, 'marooned on a Desert Island or lost in the desert/space/at sea/in the jungle thriller which I have spent many happy hours watching or reading)
Jim


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 08:37 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/16/how-conservative-leadership-challenges-work

This was the source for my remark.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 08:36 AM

Not sure this 'when she's gone, she's gone' is quite right, Jim. Or at least not the whole story. I think it is the monarch who invites somebody to become Prime Minister. And gets rid of them. What the Tories are voting following the 'no confidence' letters on is not who should be Prime Minister, but who should be leader of their party.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 08:14 AM

"If May loses the vote of confidence convention has it that she stays until she can find somebody who can get a majority in the House of Commons."
Not an option being discussed at present - like Tesco, "when she's gone, she's gone"
Britain will have to crash our of Brexit leaderless with a divided party and country - a real 'Brave New World'
The economic predictions that a hard Brexit will damage Britain's economy for decades to come means that it is our kids who will have to pick up the tab, not us
A truly great legacy
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 08:05 AM

"There can be no march to federalism while the UK is a member of the EU. Do you ever listen?"

Are you trying to convince me or yourself, by endless repetition?

What others think

One version of reality:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/01/five-facts-you-need-to-understand-the-new-global-order/

What better way to destroy the nation state by flooding countries with immigrants? Do you really think multiculturalism arose with no underlying agenda? Was the destruction of Libya, Iraq, and attempts in Syria really to onward the path of democracy?or an extremist destruction of the nation state? The grandplan seem to have hit a roadblock in Afganistan though! Even the gruniard accepts the reality
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta

Do you seriously believe the globalists give a second's thought to the views of a lefty exteacher? The bankers and multinationals do not like nations- they tend to frustrate their plans of enriching themselves while they pauperize the rest. The establishment of progressively larger political blocks is merely a step in the road towards total control, and if you think this is to your benefit I feel sorry for you.(or perhaps you have been common puposed?)

I wonder what really lies behind this?
https://reliefweb.int/report/world/world-leaders-adopt-first-ever-global-compact-migration-outlining-framework-protect


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 07:51 AM

Any deal that gives us the unilateral right to leave the backstop would be absurd. The backstop involves the Republic and the North. Some brexiteers seem to have forgotten that the Republic is an EU country, so any decision to exit the backstop must clearly be bilateral.

The so-called Norway option is not going to happen. We would dwarf the other EFTA nations and they can (and will) refuse to admit us. Apart from that, it keeps us in the single market, maintains free movement and keeps us paying in. And the "Norway-plus" notion does all that AND keeps us in the customs union. A bit like now except we'll have no say. Whoop-de-do!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 07:40 AM

Pay nothing? Wasn't it just last week that just about every economic prediction was saying that we'd pay an extremely heavy price for every possible brexit scenario except for remaining? That 39 billion is going to look like pocket money a few years down the line after our economy has shrunk by seven or eight percent...


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 07:36 AM

If May loses the vote of confidence convention has it that she stays until she can find somebody who can get a majority in the House of Commons. Given that the Tories don't have a clear majority, this presumably means somebody whom the DUP will support. This leads to the backstop question again.

The backstop question seems intractable to me. If we leave the customs union and the single market, then Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland will be in different economic areas, operating under different rules. Customs checks at the border seem inevitable unless the whole of the UK is in the same system.

This conflicts with the 'Good Friday' peace agreement.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 07:02 AM

'Crash out and pay nothing'. Against this made idea is the argument that we have legal obligations to pay something. Who would want to deal with or trust a nation that failed to meet such obligations? How would paying nothing encourage the EU to trust or trade with us in future?

On the current US administration's dislike of the EU, and its oppositions to standards and regulations, which it likes to see as nothing but barriers to trade (in items such as chlorinated chicken etc), this is well-known. As is US-based support for the right.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 06:57 AM

"'EU would valiant be gainst all disaster..'"
Hw about the Liverpool Lullaby which starts, - "EUR a mucky kid"


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:46 AM

This says it all really
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/tommy-robinson-free-protest-nazi-salutes-london-violence-police-arrests-attacks-prison-a8393566.html
The Times has a large photo across two pages of two more of Robinson's supporters, carrying "Crash out and pay nothing" banners doing exactly the same
This is where it has been from day one
Of course, they are only exercising their "right to free speech" that some hold so dear !
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:35 AM

At school we used to sing this song about the EU.

'EU would valiant be gainst all disaster..'


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 05:34 AM

There can be no march to federalism while the UK is a member of the EU. Do you ever listen?
As for getting brexit "back" on track, do remind us as to when it was ever on track in the first place.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 04:54 AM

(Try again)
It would appear Macron's globalist march to federalism is not shared by his hapless subjects!!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 04:34 AM

Progress at last. If Treason May survives I will be very disappointed.
We should really depose the partisan pipsqueak bercow as well.
Perhaps we will get brexit back on course, though not without difficulty.
Even the US ambassador to the EU thinks they are obstructionist,
Guido, of course

It comes as no surprise that there is an Interfada in France and to a lesser extent Belgium. Very interesting to see the EU symbol displayed prominently on the armoured cars deployed in Paris.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dantedisparte/2018/12/10/the-gilet-jaunes-movement-risks-becoming-europes-intifida/#1c0b187758c5
'Twould appear (B?)anker Macron>


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 03:23 AM

A genuine question here. Yesterday during the S024 debate there were various promises a made to the House about the meaningful vote process. Presumably these were made on the part of the government and so still apply whoever is leader. Or were they statements of her commitments and so not applicable if there is a change of leader?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 03:19 AM

So the letters are in and there is a confidence in May. I wonder if this will persuade Labour to trigger a confidence vote in the government? Meanwhile the SNP are trying to trigger one (Or as close to it as they can.)

Yes, another quiet week on the House.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 02:32 AM

Pretty much sums the whole farrago up....

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/andy-serkis-theresa-may-brexit_uk_5c0d9209e4b0a606a9a9f08f?skj&guccounter=1


That doesn't seem to load in the U.S. after redirect. Try https://www.facebook.com/WeWantsIt/. --mudelf


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 18 - 02:12 AM

As long as May does not dance . she really does look like a puppet when trying


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 01:43 PM

It would appear that in putting off Tuesday's vote in the Commons Theresa May be following the example of the Sufi teacher Nasruding in a similar predicament.

Nasrudin was caught in the act and sentenced to die. Hauled up before the king, he was asked by the Royal Presence: "Is there any reason at all why I shouldn't have your head off right now?" To which he replied: "Oh, King, live forever! Know that I, the mullah Nasrudin, am the greatest teacher in your kingdom, and it would surely be a waste to kill such a great teacher. So skilled am I that I could even teach your favorite horse to sing, given a year to work on it." The king was amused, and said: "Very well then, you move into the stable immediately, and if the horse isn't singing a year from now, we'll think of something interesting to do with you."
As he was returning to his cell to pick up his spare rags, his cellmate remonstrated with him: "Now that was really stupid. You know you can't teach that horse to sing, no matter how long you try." Nasrudin's response: "Not at all. I have a year now that I didn't have before. And a lot of things can happen in a year. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die.

"And, who knows? Maybe the horse will sing."


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 01:37 PM

"So, why do you keep responding to the twunt, Jim?"
In the hope he might either clean up his act or go away
I have no wish to disbar anybody from this forum - but I have no intention of entering into discussion with this brain dead
I see no harm in reminding people what he is while he persists - Don't want him whingeing about being bullied when somebody else's passing is being commemorated, do we ?
Finished for now
Jim


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 01:05 PM

"Try to get your head around the fact that nobody wants top talk to tyyou because of your persistent appalling behavior
You have recently raised the question of bullying elsewhere rather disgustingly but you have made it a statement of identity"


So, why do you keep responding to the twunt, Jim?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 12:52 PM

Can we expect Nigel to explain that the fall in the pound is nothing to do with Brexit?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 11:34 AM

Even the squeaker is upsetting Treason May.

From the all seeing eye of guido of course

https://order-order.com/2018/12/10/bercows-bombshell-bollocking/


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 10:09 AM

"You have recently raised the question of bullying elsewhere rather disgustingly but you have made it a statement of identity"
A bit of totally unnecessary thread drift there and you were certainly not smelling of roses on it. DO you have to repeatedly drag in irrelevancies from other threads to construct you argument? Have you ever considered simply keeping quiet. You frequently promise to, but pop back up again like a turd in a punch bowl.

You keep posting outright lies, I will continue to correct you. Simples!

What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Thomas Jefferson


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 09:58 AM

He has nothing but insults, bluster and ill concealed propaganda, Steve. That has been obvious for a long time. Don't engage with him and we can continue to laugh at it without him being suspended again.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 09:52 AM

"Try paying attention!"
Try to get your head around the fact that nobody wants top talk to tyyou because of your persistent appalling behavior
You have recently raised the question of bullying elsewhere rather disgustingly but you have made it a statement of identity
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 09:42 AM

We can cede no sovereignty unless we agree to it. We'll be ceding a damn sight more once we leave, and over that we will have no choice.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 09:34 AM

Jean-Claude Juncker
“Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,

Hooray for sheople!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 09:16 AM

"The only final remedy for this evil is the federal union of the peoples.”

Read my lips for the umpteenth time. While we are members of the EU, this can never happen. We have the power of veto to prevent it every step of the way. Have you got it yet?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 09:07 AM

you are responding to someone who advocates that Global warming is a product of 'fake news'
Another stunning example of your inability to understand plain english.
The contribution of CO2 to global warming is unquantified and the models inexact. Try paying attention!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 09:06 AM

Did anyone else realise that the opinion of a British politician in the 1930s had now been adopted by the EU as part of its mission statement! Or is someone telling us porkies? :-)


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 08:59 AM

"Seems like a good idea to me"
Me too
You must remember that you are responding to someone who advocates that Global warming is a product of 'fake news'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 08:59 AM

"Seems like a good idea to me"
Me too
You must remember that you are responding to someone who advocates that Global warming is a product of 'fake news'
Jim Carroll


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