Brexit #2

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:16 PM

From: David Carter (UK) - PM
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 12:45 PM

The UK fishing industry has been all but destroyed by overfishing by British fishermen. The EU has attempted to conserve stocks. If the British fishermen are let loose again there will be no fish left in the North Sea within 10 years.

And Dick, what the hell is Jason. I wrote Jamon Serrano, and if you don't know what it is don't pontificate on whether we need it or not. As for mangetout, there are about 2 months of the year when you can grow it in Britain, and even then it isn't the same quality as imported. As for Macdonalds, what has that to do with anything, I wouldn't touch Macdonalds with a bargepole. We need quality food, and that means European producers.

Ok. There is a (very) limited season for growing mangetout in UK. For how long can it be grown in EU? (probably not for a much longer season)
A quick google search suggests that most of it comes from Kenya. Which means that when we leave the EU we will be able to buy it without the EU import tariffs currently imposed.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:48 PM

David Carter, HERE is a quote from McDonalds website, seems like they use european producers
We are proud to source many products and ingredients from Irish suppliers such as beef from over thousands of Irish farms, bacon from Dew Valley, Ballygowan water, Flahavans porridge oats, free range eggs from Greenfield Foods as well as products from Kerry Foods, Leestrand Dairies and Gempack. McDonald’s in Europe is the single largest purchaser of Irish beef by volume and one in every five hamburgers sold in McDonald’s across Europe every year is of Irish origin. The company also exports Irish dairy produce, bacon and eggs into the McDonald’s system internationally.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:59 PM

'Mange Bugger-All', if the rumours about food-shortage predictions are to be believed! :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:13 PM

Other way round Nigel, Kenya and other EAC countries have preferential access to the UK market at present, but the UK government are refusing to say whether that will continue when and if the UK leaves the EU.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:15 PM

Dick, you seem to have an obsession with Macdonalds. I care not where they get their food from, since I would never be seen dead in there. They may use fine Irish raw materials, but they still turn them into shite food.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:46 PM

"The UK fishing industry has been all but destroyed by overfishing by British fishermen. The EU has attempted to conserve stocks. If the British fishermen are let loose again there will be no fish left in the North Sea within 10 years.

And Dick, what the hell is Jason. I wrote Jamon Serrano, and if you don't know what it is don't pontificate on whether we need it or not. As for mangetout, there are about 2 months of the year when you can grow it in Britain, and even then it isn't the same quality as imported. As for Macdonalds, what has that to do with anything, I wouldn't touch Macdonalds with a bargepole. We need quality food, and that means European producers."

Amen to all that, David. It's the tradition to paint the EU as the sinners and us as the saints. One of my Bude mates is a lifelong fisherman who knows ten times more about fishing than any bloody bureaucrat. You want to hear what he says about the EU. But, when pressed, he'll tell you what you probably don't want to hear about British fishermen too. Farming's the same. Until someone cries foul, farmers will degrade the soil until the taxpayer has to stump up for dredging (Somerset Levels flooding a couple of years ago - entirely due to terrible farming practices). They will devastate wildlife until someone passes a law. Neonicotinoids are destroying insect life in this country but farmers will keep on using it until someone bans them. Same old story.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:18 PM

An "Empire" is a gathering of countries ruled by a single state Dick - Europe is a conglomeration of States that have assembled to reach mutual understanding on certain major issues
Thirty or forty years ago I might have told them all Britain, The U.S.. the European countries to go to their own chosen hells in their own handcarts - the reality of the situation has made me think twice on this one.
The E.U. is an attempt to fend off the inevitable collapse of the present system by Capitalist Countries
Should that collapse happen in a disorganised random fashion, there is an inevitability that several countries will swing to the extreme right to solve their problems - we already have a rise in the fortunes of the neo-Nazi parties in Europe - Austria narrowly escaped a Nazi leadership a couple of years ago - Hungary has such a leadership at present
Brexit was carried though by drawing on the British people's xenophobic fears
I was appalled at the way Greece was treated during its economic crisis, but last time anything like that happened there The Colonels moved in and massacred and tortured their opponents
It is notable that the most vociferous opponents of the E.U. come from the Extremist right of Europe and America
The E.U. may not be perfect but until another "spectre comes to haunt Europe", it'll do for now
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 12:22 AM

I should have thought Brexit would be just what the doctor ordered for Irish Unity.. the Irish want in the EU, the English clearly want out.

Surely the EU should be a great rallying point for Irish people. One subject, they can be united about telling England to bugger off, once and for all.

Sod off England! We want to be in Europe!

No.....?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:34 AM

In the Sunday Times today:

Britain is odds-on to crash out of the European Union without a deal, Liam Fox warns today.

In an interview with The Sunday Times, the international trade secretary put the chances of a no deal departure at "60-40", squarely blaming the "intransigence" of the European Commission.

Fox accused Eurocrats of harbouring a "theological obsession" with EU rules rather than "economic wellbeing", which would lead to “only one outcome”.


As I have said many times, the more extreme leavers completely fail to understand that the EU is about economic, political and social interests, not just economic. Any approach that concentrates just on the economic is extremely likely to fail. So what Liam Fox puts down to EU intransigence is actually the inability of one Liam Fox to recognise what the EU concerns are. Understanding what the other team wants is a vital part of any negotiation, and it looks like Liam Fox is failing dismally in that. Unless, of course, his only objective is to put the blame for anything that does go wrong on the EU, but surely not?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:32 AM

David Carter Ianswered your question about Quality European producers, as you Admit McDONALDS ARE A EUROPEAN PRODUCER AND THEY ARE NOT QUALITY. you have proved your quote was nonsense
We lose tariff free access to QUALITY EU produce
We need quality food, and that means European producers.
I probably will be worse of and so will most people apart from the rich
The real enemy is the system whether it be european or uk, The european version has imposed poverty on Greece and to a lesser extent Ireland by imposing draconiasn financial debt, after encouraging unwise loans etc , so that the multi national large investors and bankers get repaid, and you honestly think the Europeans will be kinder Capitalists you live in cloud cuckoo land.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:43 AM

and you honestly think the Europeans will be kinder Capitalists

This is the point of the social aspect of the EU. I admit, as with Greece, when it comes to it the capitalist interests usually win out, but the social side imposes limits on what the capitalist wing does. Hence the working hours directive and similar workers rights. Parliament explicitly excluded incorporation of workers rights derived from EU law in the Withdrawal agreement, you will recall.

So yes, the Europeans capitalists will be kinder. Not because they want to, but they do not have as free a hand as the ones in the UK are seeking.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: BobL
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:15 AM

I think I was born at just the right time. I missed WW2, but was around for the period of optimism and rebuilding that followed, for the Festival of Britain, for the Coronation, for the Swinging Sixties. Early computers - with 1KB memory, and on which an hour's time cost about a programmer's weekly wage - were a perfect match for my particular skills, leading me into a successful if unspectacular career. And I expect to be gone before the collapse of civilisation due to Brexit, Trumpism, religious extremism and global climate change.

And BTW, if you fitted a Rover engine into an Allegro, would you have Allegover?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:21 AM

ha ha,we will see.
in the past the EU HAS BEEN PROTECTIONIST , LARGE WINE LAKES AND BUTTER MOUNTAINS HAVE BEEN HOARDED.France has had its wine market protect4d, does anyone deny this
It seems we did not need these fine wines and fine EU produce of wine butter and milk[DavidCarter take note]
very shortly we will all have to consrve energy, consume less, and start where we can, being more self sufficient,unless the two brexit sides stop posturing we must prepare for being worse off, i hope it does not get too bad. but it is no point pretending that incompetent politicians can sort things out, most of the politicians seem concerned only with having a job and getting votes ,very little long term strategy
, i hope they do sort out trade deals benficial to both sides ,but I am preparing for the worst, the kind capitalists of the
EU DID NOT HAND OUT FREE MILK TO THE GREEKS
milk lake   

   

Milk cartons being transported on a conveyor belt in the Candia milk plant in Awoingt, northern France | Philippe Huguen/AFP via Getty Images
Europe’s hidden milk lake threatens fragile market

https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-hidden-milk-price-lake-threatens-fragile-market-eu-commission/

Brussels bought up a huge amount of milk to try to boost prices. The danger is that these stocks are now forcing prices down.

By Emmet Livingstone        

1

HERSTAL, Belgium — Milk lakes and butter mountains were meant to be a relic of Europe’s past.

Massive EU intervention in the dairy market is back, however, and its price-distorting effects are coming in for some of the same scathing criticism as in the 1970s and 1980s, when Brussels became a byword for reckless intervention.

In an attempt to prop up prices in the teeth of a dairy crisis, Brussels has been buying up milk since 2015. A lot of milk. The European Commission has used public money to buy some 380,000 metric tons of skim milk powder. That’s slightly more than a big dairy powerhouse like France produced in 2016, for example.

Stockpiled in warehouses — mostly in France, Germany and Belgium — the sacks of milk powder conspicuously failed to stop the price hemorrhage. In fact, the EU strategy is in danger of doing exactly the opposite. Milk farmers and traders fear that the very existence of these quantities is already dragging down prices, in the expectation that they will one day be sold back.

“This powder is the problem,” said Romuald Schaber, chairman of the German dairy association. “It’s the sword of Damocles hanging over us all.”

. . . .

---

Stop with the huge cut-and-paste, Dick. I've posted the link after a brief introduction. We only allow long cut-and-paste for stories we want to preserve in the music section. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:28 AM

Dick, do you live in some parallel universe? McDonalds are American, not European.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:31 AM

I was not saying the EU capitalist are kind, Sandman. I was saying their unkindness is constrained in some directions by rules the UK Parliament voted to remove, so the UK capitalists are likely to be still less kind.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:48 AM

Backwoodsman,
"Our fleet was not plundering, it was fishing sustainably in international waters which Iceland suddenly claimed as its own"
That's not how the Icelandic government saw it.

They did not accuse us of "plundering." They just wanted to extend their territorial waters from the then accepted 50 miles to 200 miles in order to expand their own fleet and increase their catch.

David,
The UK fishing industry has been all but destroyed by overfishing by British fishermen. The EU has attempted to conserve stocks. If the British fishermen are let loose again there will be no fish left in the North Sea within 10 years.

I disagree. I do not believe that statement can be justified.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:23 AM

The North Sea was overfished of herring at the time MacColl was making 'Singing the Fishing' at the beginning of the sixties
The fishermen the team recorded said that over and over again and commented bitterly on the effect it had had on the East Coast fishing towns
Parallel Universe about sums it up
Maybe the E.U. started W.W.1 - wouldn't put it past them!!
Dick
Your large, randomly gathered cut-'n-pastes are meaningless as they represent the views only of an unknown reporter working for a little known American publication with links to Europe's main opponent, Wall Street
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:59 AM

Jim meaningless to you but not to Dairy farmers, are you denying that there was a winelake or butter mountain asnd now an over production of milk.
David, stop being silly McDonalds say they use european producers, do you also deny there was a wine lake?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 05:05 AM

To my mind the Common Fisheries Policy of the EU has been very bad for fish stocks and conservation. If shores were treated like land and each country could fish its own shores it would be a lot easier to conserve fish because you could see who's responsible if a particular area's stocks went down.

Policies like the quotas that ended up with fishermen throwing tons of dead fish back into the sea are just disgusting and have ruined Atlantic fisheries.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 08:35 AM

McDonalds use producers from everywhere they operate, which is just about everywhere. I havn't a clue what point you are trying to make.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 08:37 AM

Thompson, your proposal might make sense, were it not for the fact that fish can swim across the boundary between different country's territorial waters. And they can't read signs telling them when they are about to swim into the waters of a rapacious country which does not adhere to the common fisheries policy.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 08:42 AM

Big Al says:

"Surely the EU should be a great rallying point for Irish people. One subject, they can be united about telling England to bugger off, once and for all.

Sod off England! We want to be in Europe!"

It would be even better were they to say that English people who want to be in Europe can come and live there.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 09:58 AM

Ironically, it appears that Brexit is the straw the broke the camel's back for Northern Ireland
The gap between those who wish to continue to be part of Britain and those who want a United Ireland has shrunk to an unbelievable extent, turning a long-held wish into a distinct possibility
Even former leader of the DUP, PETER ROBINSON has said that his party need to discuss Unity
It seems that the predictions that Brexit could lead to the break-up of the U.K. had some foundation
That is a major problem for May's "Conservative and Unionist Party" as without the D.U.Ps support they can't survive in Government
It's an ill wind.... as they say
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: peteglasgow
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 11:06 AM

scotland too, will not be around for long. iain mcwhirter in the herald recently described the situation for the scottish parliament as 'like being chained to a lunatic' it won't be easy to get away though, the forces of unionism on both sides of the irish sea are strong and aggressive.

for those of us left after brexit in what's left of the UK it doesn't look good. i've always been a socialist and just despair of the current political scene. what hope is there for peace and progressive politics these days?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 11:18 AM

Yes it does not look good, bullshit on both sides , a new uk government in my opinion would be an improvement. but time will tell

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: j0_77
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 12:24 PM

Re: David Carter (UK). "It would be even better were they to say that English people who want to be in Europe can come and live there."

Well they did, and they do! I have many a time met folks who moved, especially after the Maggie blankety blank Thatcher assault on the Black Country.

A great example is Katie Taylor, you should read her life story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Taylor#Education

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 12:34 PM

Jo77, "they did and they do"

the question is really "will they" post Brexit

Some of us have concerns that they might say "bugger off"

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 12:59 PM

So j0_77, are you going to give me a legally binding document which will entitle me to move when I retire in 8-9 years?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:13 PM

'chained to a maniac'.....I like that!

a pleasing image!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: peteglasgow
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:25 PM

even when the maniac has the power.....and suicidal tendencies?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:53 PM

that's the only kind of maniac to be chained to....

who wants to be chained to a maniac who eats his sprouts, remembers your birthday, and shows his wild streak by drinking Earl Grey during The Antiques Road Show.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 07:00 PM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 09:58 AM
Ironically, it appears that Brexit is the straw the broke the camel's back for Northern Ireland
The gap between those who wish to continue to be part of Britain and those who want a United Ireland has shrunk to an unbelievable extent, turning a long-held wish into a distinct possibility

Fine, give the people of Northern Ireland a vote on whether they wish to continue as part of the UK, or seek to become part of the Republic of Ireland (assuming the Republic want to accept them).
But make it a 'one off' vote, which will commit them for an extended period, and don't allow for a second vote if things don't go the way the EU would like.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: j0_77
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 10:55 PM

@Raggytash and SBP-Cooperator
Well I have no idea, but suspect that it will work out in the usual inter British way, just like it was back in the day. Used be a joke that there is a border between the UK and ROI, because in effect the only thing they stopped travelers for was liquor and tobacco. No passports or any of that sort of silly thing. They were, for most of us, happy times.

But there is enormous changes to property value in the ROI. Some cities are as expensive as UK, so be ready to dosh up a lot of loot if buying a home. Yet there remain bargains in the countryside just like you'll find in the UK.

Retiring there is somewhat of an industry as lots go from here, and Australia etc. I suspect Co. Clare prices are a bit of a shock, - music business and so on- but then who wants to move to a cosmopolitan community even if in Ireland? I certainly would not want that.

Yet I think this BrokesIt will bring folks to their senses and get a better deal for the UK than is now on the table, including retaining the relaxed UK / ROI relationship, so nothing will change for retiring from there to the wee green island.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:07 AM

Peter Hoskins has tweeted:

Pound hits 11 month low against the U.S. dollar after Liam Fox’s warning of a no-deal Brexit.
Wonder if the Telegraph will do a front page like they did on Mark Carney, when sterling was pretty much unchanged? 

We can't control what the Telegraph does, but we can wonder if the people who were critical of Carney will be equally crutical of Liam Fox.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:27 AM

"(assuming the Republic want to accept them)"
That's now the majority wish#
A second vote is not in question -
THe second vote over Brexit has been called for because of the shamblic handling of the negotiations, the revelations of the damage that is likely to be done to Britain and the extremist xenophobic policy that a significant enough minority of the British people were persuaded to vote to leave.
Given all these factors, it would be totally undemocratic not to allow a second vote on Brexit - if Governments can change their mind - why not the voters
None of these factors are comparable in any way to a national group being given the right to vote for full independence of their own country
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 09:28 AM

Re-unification of Ireland: That's now the majority wish#

An easy claim to make, but virtually impossible to back up without a referendum.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 10:00 AM

re unification of ireland would solve the border problem

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 10:10 AM

"An easy claim to make, but virtually impossible to back up without a referendum."
The subject has been surveyed constantly over the last few years
It was estimated nine years ago that only 11% of the Northern Irish people wanted a United Ireland - a survey two years ago indicated that this had leapt up to 48%
A recent survey has now suggested that a hard Brexit would increase that to 58%
An indication of the accuracy of this is that the DUP no longer have aan overll majority and could be outvoted by the three other parties gareeing to vote against them
Last yra in The Republic the figure for a United Ireland had leapt from around 25% to a little under half the population - more recent reports suggest that something like 65% of the Irish people enthusiastically support the idea
Brexit has done a wonderful job in this respect
The main beneficiaries of the Brexit fiasco in both the North and the South have been Sinn Fein, who are now serious Government contenders
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 10:27 AM

Yes, and surveys showed that UK would vote to remain in EU, and Trump would not be president.
You can no longer trust polls (if you ever could) to give an accurate position on events.
Either people mislead the polls, or they are not set up to query a representative minority.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 12:00 PM

Isn't it rather telling that, when a second referendum is mooted, these BrexShiteers never react by saying, "Bring it on, we won before, and we'll win again!"?

They're bricking it.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 12:03 PM

Apologies, 'second referendum' should have been 'a further referendum on whether to accept the deal the government and EU have agreed on, or a 'hard Brexit' with no deal'.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 12:28 PM

"Yes, and surveys showed that UK would vote to remain in EU, and Trump would not be president."
That was before people got a chance to see the results of Britain leaving Europe
Don't suppose you'd like to place a bert on the result now
As far as Ireland is concerned - there has always been a desire to unite - Why wouldn't there be, Ireland is Ireland whatever the Empire chose to call it?
In the North, the population shift alone has made unity a forgone conclusion - now it's only the diehards that wish to remain part of Britain and even they are now realising the implications of doing so - business and the economy is alredy feeling the effects of this idiocy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:42 PM

From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 12:28
Don't suppose you'd like to place a bet on the result now
As far as Ireland is concerned - there has always been a desire to unite -

According to an earlier post there has not always been a desire for unification (in the North at least).

From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 10:10 AM
"An easy claim to make, but virtually impossible to back up without a referendum."
The subject has been surveyed constantly over the last few years
It was estimated nine years ago that only 11% of the Northern Irish people wanted a United Ireland

I fully accept that your knowledge of the Irish peoples is greater than mine, but your comments don't always appear to be consistent.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 06:19 PM

Both Australia and America are now saying they will only do a deal to supply the UK with food if we drop out standards. Well done brexiteers. Hormone laden beef and chlorinated chicken from now on I suppose.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:26 PM

"Apologies, 'second referendum' should have been 'a further referendum on whether to accept the deal the government and EU have agreed on, or a 'hard Brexit' with no deal'."

It wouldn't even be that, John. We've already had a second referendum, on 23 June 2016. That was forced on us by people who have never accepted the result of the first referendum. Of course, they'll pretend that it's all to do with "ever-closer union" and "United States of Europe" bollocks. But that isn't at all where they're coming from. They've been at it since the mid-70s, way before any of that arose. Yet the self-same people, the ones who agitated for forty-odd years for a second referendum, will tell you that we are being undemocratic in calling for a rethink. Yet they called for a rethink even after we remainers won a two-thirds majority. They won by a wafer-thin margin in 2016, unlike us in the seventies, yet according to them it's us who are "undemocratic" in calling for reconsideration. Of course, they will tell you how much things changed over those forty-odd years. Well I'll tell you summat. Things have changed a damn sight more than that in the last two years. But the brexiteers are scared shitless of a rethink, and they're sacred shitless of what's going to happen to this country. In that, I suppose, there's common ground with us remainers, if nowt else.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:55 PM

"Sacred shitless" sounds like the deification of a bad bout of constipation. Actually I think I'd be scared shitless of a bout of sacred shitlessness. I'll have a rethink and let you know.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 08:16 PM

"but your comments don't always appear to be consistent."
Not really Nigel
The underlying intention of Ireland has always been to remove a partition that was forced upon them- pride of nation is part of the psyche of the Irish people
Since Independence (of sorts) in 1922 the Irish have been dependent on friendly nations with its nearest neighbour, mainly as a plane to emigrate to with a practial chance of returning home easily, so they adopted a 'don't rock the boat' pragmatism
An example of this is the fact that up to twenty years ago there has only been one major work Ireland's greatest disaster - the Famine, which was written in the 1960s by an Englishwoman - no point of rubing our neighbour's noses in what they did
The blossoming of the Irish Economy - 'The Celtic Tiger' (thanks to the E.U.) largely removed that dependency (the 150th anniversary saw a landslide of serious and uncomfortably frank books on Irish history under British rule.
These things are never straightforward
Now Brexit has made Britain a liability - hence the return to the old dream of a United Ireland
I am in no way a nationalist, but I hope I live to see that one
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 02:31 AM

Both Australia and America are now saying they will only do a deal to supply the UK with food if we drop out standards. Well done brexiteers. Hormone laden beef and chlorinated chicken from now on I suppose."
A strong argument for not eating meat, you are right we should have a right to decnt quality food , and my impression of Germany is that it insists on high standrds of food as much as it can throughout Europe, i
I am not happy to trust Trump or mny other country to insist on as high a standard, it is ridiculous to suggest that everything about Europe is bad.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 02:35 AM

We do not have to go very far back in time, to remember the BSE beef scandal, The one people I would trust to be thorough in maintaining reasonable quality of food are the Germans

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 02:39 AM

As a nation they seem to be meticulous in their thouroughness.