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Brexit #2
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Nov 18 - 09:28 AM We've had this with him before, Karen. We've told him that there is no law in this country that says you have to vote, that people who choose not to vote (for the variety of reasons I listed, at least some of them representing perfectly valid and conscientious choices) still pay their taxes and contribute to society just as much as people who vote. Perhaps we should ask this rather crude and vulgar man this question: Who has the greater merit, a person who chooses not to vote at all or a person who chooses to vote for the BNP...? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Donuel Date: 14 Nov 18 - 09:36 AM tick tock 4 months to the deadline in March. Today I hear Theresa has an important show down meeting. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 14 Nov 18 - 11:37 AM From: Steve Shaw - PM Date: 14 Nov 18 - 09:28 AM ................. Out of sensible discussion,so back to the insults. I notice the left offer no analysis as to why they lost-just an endless succession of arguments as to why those that did not vote should be understood. An analysis of commy corbyn otherwise known as st corbyn of the allotment Labour Press Team ? @labourpress Tonight @BBCNewsnight wrongly??? claimed that Jeremy Corbyn always thought UK would be better off outside the EU, and failed to correct despite our complaint. He campaigned for the UK to remain in and reform the EU. 3,256 12:18 AM - Nov 14, 2018 Let’s examine this post-midnight claim by Labour’s Press team: In 1975, Corbyn voted in favour of leaving the European Economic Community, which later became the European Union Corbyn later voted against the Maastricht Treaty that created the EU, arguing it was undemocratic. Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty, which established the constitutional basis for the EU. In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service. In 2011, he broke the Labour whip to vote for a referendum on our EU membership. During the referendum, when for party management reasons he supposedly supported the remain campaign, he went on holiday. After the referendum he called for the immediate triggering of Article 50. During the 2016 general election his Labour Party stood on a platform of implementing Brexit. He now says “Brexit can’t be stopped.” His leadership of the Labour Party is widely recognised as strategically enabling for Brexit. Corbyn has always been against what he sees as a capitalist club and he has been admirably consistent on this issue for over four decades. Who is Labour’s press team trying to kid? From the impeccable source Guido, of course. An open invitation for any of the remainiacs to prove him wrong: Good Luck |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: DMcG Date: 14 Nov 18 - 01:07 PM Well, Iains, if Rees Mogg and co are right and the deal is nothing like what people voted for, I put it to you that you lost as well. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 14 Nov 18 - 01:31 PM DMcG I think betrayed is the word you may be searching for. But as yet I hear no dulcet tones from the fat lady. Counting chickens may yet be premature. Should it come to an election I wonder what platform. Corbyn will be on? Will he support his heartlands as displayed earlier (From: Iains - PM Date: 14 Nov 18 - 11:37 AM) or run with the trendy guardianistas that infest this thread. Will the real corbyn stand up! The man has the backbone of overcooked spagetti. Is Janus his role model? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: DMcG Date: 14 Nov 18 - 01:48 PM DMcG I think betrayed is the word you may be searching for. Not really. I did consider the word 'betrayal' before I posted, but did not think it captured what I wanted to say. That puts the blame on someone else - May, the remainers, the judges, the media, and who know who - anyone else, really, rather than face the possibility what was demanded may not have been realistic. If you voted to leave, you didn't vote to get some paper measurement. You voted to achieve something. It looks as if you are not getting that. That is what losing looks like. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Nov 18 - 05:38 PM So Theresa has more than hinted that the alternatives to this deal, should it be rejected by parliament, would be no deal or no brexit.. We live in hope. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Nov 18 - 01:00 AM "So Theresa has more than hinted that the alternatives to this deal, should it be rejected by parliament, would be no deal or no brexit.. We live in hope." Well, I said on this forum a couple of years ago that 'no Brexit' was her end-game, and I still believe that could be the case. She's seemed to be heading that way all along, with a strategy that will enable the abandonment of Brexit, but which will lay the blame at other people's doors. In which case, hats-off to her, she's a smarter cookie than many (including me) would believe. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Nov 18 - 05:09 AM So the brexit secretary has resigned, and now the pure-evil Esther McVey has gone. You're belly-up, Theresa. No brexit? No-deal brexit? Another bloody referendum? General election? Nice work, Tory tossers. Two and a bloody half years to get to this... |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 15 Nov 18 - 06:10 AM I suspect the next few days could be interesting |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: DMcG Date: 15 Nov 18 - 06:49 AM At last something we can all agree on, there, Iains! |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 15 Nov 18 - 06:51 AM Uncertainty = the spice of life! |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Nov 18 - 07:15 AM She's doomed ah tell ye, doo-o-omed! Fingers crossed. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 15 Nov 18 - 07:49 AM Maybe! But what will follow? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Nov 18 - 08:00 AM We are certainly in interesting times. Can we go back to boring now please? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 15 Nov 18 - 08:31 AM From guido, the man with a finger on the pulse! https://order-order.com/2018/11/15/erg-advises-mps-send-letters/ How many supporters I wonder. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Donuel Date: 15 Nov 18 - 08:36 AM Nobody in England knows what is going on, except which immediate domino is going to fall today. No democracy if you do, no democracy if you don't. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Donuel Date: 15 Nov 18 - 08:58 AM psst - in a double negative situation it is best to 'don't do' - Do over. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Nov 18 - 09:10 AM Six resignations to date and ain impending Tory coup and what do we get Guido and "see what happens" ? I think we have the makings of the next Prime Minister here !! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Nov 18 - 09:27 AM Pound falls steeply as Brexit resignations rock UK government Time to sell my leftover dollars methinks. Always look on the bright side of life... |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Nov 18 - 10:01 AM I think you mean, "Sterling soars downwards", using the ever-optimistic BrexShiteer's language. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 15 Nov 18 - 10:16 AM "Sterling soars downwards" More hysteria off remainiacs. Sterling was far lower back in August and trading lower exactly one year ago. But never let facts spoil a good story! |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Raggytash Date: 15 Nov 18 - 10:27 AM Hang about, it was one of your cohort who said first suggested that the pound had "soared" when it went up by half one one cent. Not half a percent but a half of one cent. Don't recall you saying anything about hysteria on that occasion. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Nov 18 - 10:50 AM FROM THE HORSES MOUTH Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 15 Nov 18 - 11:08 AM A stunning link from the horses mouth. It just wants money |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Nov 18 - 11:18 AM No comment on the ecconomic damage done by Brexit so far - who's to blame you ? Patriots ? I've shit 'em Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Nov 18 - 11:43 AM TRY THIS FOR SIZE - though I prefer the Financial Times analysis - so clear even our resident morons could understand it when it was read to them Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 15 Nov 18 - 11:48 AM As the article says: Using a "Frankenstein" model, which cobbles together data from other major economies, the bank's economists worked out the hit to UK growth. Has as much validity as Frankenstein as well,I would say. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Nov 18 - 01:05 PM Moggie in the Window has proposed a 'No Confidence' vote against the Prime Minister Wonder what tomorrow will bring? Jim Caarroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: DMcG Date: 15 Nov 18 - 01:21 PM ALong with presumably thousands of others I have just got this email from Corbyn. The bolding is mine. ====== If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. We are ready to lead, ready to deliver a sensible deal that works for all our regions and nations and ready to build a Britain that works for the many, not the few. Jeremy Corbyn Leader of the Labour Party ====== I have also got an email from my Tory MP who says he will vote against the deal because "To agree to this will be worse than staying in the EU". I have asked him to confirm this means if his only choice is between this deal and remaining, he will vote remain. I do not expect any response at all, but certainly not one that is compatable with his assertion. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Nov 18 - 02:27 PM LORD SNOOTY FOR PRIME MINISTER Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:33 PM Do you often link to the comic above? In comparison it makes the Guardian look to be almost a serious newspaper! |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:39 PM "Do you often link to the comic above?" Not as often as you link to your moron Guido - I know Snooty is a cartoon - you have that yet to learn about yourr clown Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Raggytash Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:50 PM I see you have not responded Iains to my observation about the comment of the pound "soaring" of the pound. .................. I wonder why that is. I take it you do recall one of your cohorts saying the pound had "soared" when it had risen by one half of one cent. Not, as I'm sure you understand, even one half of one percent. As I'm sure you realise the pound PLUMETTED from 1.31 before Brexit to a distinctly lower amount afterwards. The attached website would seem to claim that the pound loss 19% post Brexit, not one half of one cent but a full 19% Link Can we hope for an improvement in the value of the pound? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Nov 18 - 04:08 PM "Can we hope for an improvement in the value of the pound?" More importantly, can we hope for a bit of good news about the Brexit Debacle - like, for instance, that the government has come to its senses and abandoned it? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 15 Nov 18 - 04:40 PM From: DMcG - PM Date: 15 Nov 18 - 01:21 PM ALong with presumably thousands of others I have just got this email from Corbyn. The bolding is mine. ====== If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. We are ready to lead, ready to deliver a sensible deal that works for all our regions and nations and ready to build a Britain that works for the many, not the few. Jeremy Corbyn Leader of the Labour Party Is it fair to guess that the section you highlighted in bold is intended to read: "we will support (keeping) all options And before anyone accuses me of nit-picking, I am merely commenting on the supposed contents of an email which has, presumably, been vetted by the Labour Party before issue. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Nov 18 - 04:57 PM {{{ Yaa-a-a-awn }}} |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Nov 18 - 05:03 PM May's Tory Government publicly self-destructing before our eyes, making the U.K. an utter laughing-stock around the world, and Nigs The Nitpicker can't find anything to comment on except a badly-worded sentence in something the leader of HM Opposition put out. What a muppet. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Backwoodsman Date: 15 Nov 18 - 05:27 PM Brexit in a Nutshell - it would be funny if it wasn't so true. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Nov 18 - 06:54 PM A chap came to my house today to do some work for me (no names, no details, no pack drill). While he was here the news came through about Dominic "Slimeball" Raab and Esther "Devil-Incarnate" McVey. I commented on the news to him. He told me he didn't follow politics and didn't understand any of it. But he'd voted leave, for chrissake. I told him to come round my house in the event of another vote for a ten-minute chat in which I'd tell him why he should vote remain next time. He doesn't need it. He assured me that he'd changed his mind. Good thing, but the exchange hardly cheered me up. Let's redefine democracy, mused I after he'd gone, as a system in which ignorant people can be kept ignorant so that they can be manipulated, but make them feel good by "giving them the vote." We are in a nightmare. What is happening to this country is insane. I want to hear politicians saying what is blatantly, bleedin' obvious: that staying in the EU is by FAR the most beneficial outcome for the national interest. There is no-one here on this forum that can make even the weakest argument as to why we would be better out. They can quote Tory rags and Tory blogs until they're blue in the face. But not one of them, not Iains, not Nigel, not Keith, not Stanron, can make any sort of case that we will be better off out. They can offer only vacuous and faux-hopeful aspiration. Nothing else. It's been like that for over two years, but the issue is crystallising fast before their eyes. Time to ditch the hubris, chaps. We are better off by a million miles in the EU. Apart from the clear economic benefits, look at the rest of the world. We have Trump destroying democracy in the rest of the western world, and he's going to get a second term. Six more years. We have a dictator for life who tramples on human rights in the biggest country in the world. We have Putin who is determined to turn Russia into a corrupt and dangerous superpower. We have far-right populism in Brazil and, worryingly, in some European countries. We have a horrid regime in Israel that is at the root of all middle-eastern conflict and we have an antediluvian, murderous regime in a country we daren't criticise because they have oil. The EU, for all its faults, which are legion, is a democratic bulwark against these horrible trends. If you can't see it, you're blind, and you are not thinking about the nasty world you're unconsciously arguing should be visited on your children and grandchildren. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Nov 18 - 03:34 AM Well said, Steve. Looking on the bright side again the EU referendum debacle has had the benefit of showing everyone that the self serving shower of shits who started it are not fit to govern. Hopefully they will completely melt down and by next week we will be one step further towards an administration that does really serve the people. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Nov 18 - 03:46 AM "making the U.K. an utter laughing-stock around the world" A little more than that, I'm afraid Brexit was sold on keeping immigrats and asylum seekers out - as May put it yesterday "taking back control of our borders" Not only is this basicalloy racist, but it is self-destructive and inhuman Had the British governments in the thirties taken the same stance there would have been far more Jews exterminated than there were - we and other nations took in the refugee from Nazisim - Britain is turning its back on today's refugees - shame on Nigel and his fellow appeasers Not only are the present leaders encouraging this inhuman policy, butt by supporting the regimes who have caused the refugees to flee their countries; politically, financially and even militarily, NOT JUST FIGHTER PLANES In doing so, our leaders have made Britain part of the slaughter A little more than a laughing stock, I'm afraid What are these people turning Britain into and how do those who support them square their concionces? Beyond me ! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: The Sandman Date: 16 Nov 18 - 04:01 AM PEOPLE LIKE REES MOGG TALK ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF LEAVING BUT ADVISE THEIR INVESTORS TO INVEST IN EUROS , UNBELIEVABLE |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Backwoodsman Date: 16 Nov 18 - 04:04 AM "What are these people turning Britain into and how do those who support them square their concionces?" What consciences? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 16 Nov 18 - 04:37 AM Some have compare Theresa May to Neville Chamberlein. Others have said "That's unfair to Chamberlain, he didn't pay the Luftwaffe for the blitz." |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 16 Nov 18 - 04:57 AM "As I'm sure you realise the pound PLUMETTED from 1.31 before Brexit to a distinctly lower amount afterwards." I am afraid the significance of 1.31 totally escapes me, That was the exchange rate in January 2016 and part of a decline from 1.42 in July 2015.That was a rise from a historic low of 1.02 in 2008. The pound presently trades at a level seen in 2010 but with reduced volatility.The point you are trying to make has no validity. Economic factors dictate exchange rates, not headlines. |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Raggytash Date: 16 Nov 18 - 05:06 AM Kindly explain then, why did the pound really plummet the day after the Referendum vote when the decision to leave the EU was announced. Coincidence ???? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Nov 18 - 05:28 AM Oddly enough, May is the only one to come out of this showing a shred of principles and dignity in all this - certainly more than any (either) of her supporters here One of the saving graces of Brexit is watching the rats turn on each other Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Iains Date: 16 Nov 18 - 06:04 AM Kindly explain then, why did the pound really plummet the day after the Referendum vote when the decision to leave the EU was announced. It was part of a decline from 1.42 in July 2015. Look at the graphical data. How many times do you need telling this? Would you like a merry-go-round for Christmas? |
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Nov 18 - 06:14 AM A sobering piece in 'The Scotsman'. A paper known for being centre, moderate and down to earth. Wealthy men are playing with the lives of 60 million people as if Brexit were a game of chess Plenty to think about but the following passage is particularly disturbing to me. It is clearly true that many of them are now trying to unseat their own party leader for not delivering on a fantasy of painless, glorious Brexit that they themselves have failed to turn into political reality, since the task is impossible. And as for concealing their true aims – well, who can say what strange brew of midlife psychosis and outright political dishonesty has motivated the bizarre wave of retro-imperial fantasy and anti-European rhetoric that has swept through parts of the Tory Party at Westminster in recent years; although investigations into the funding and management of the Leave campaign suggest that there are, at the very least, very serious questions to be asked about the sources of its funds, and its shadowy political connections. It was obvious to some of from the start. It should now be blatantly obvious to all that the whole sorry affair was dreamed up by a tiny but powerful minority with vested interests in keeping the British people under their heel. |
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