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Brexit #2

Steve Shaw 22 Oct 18 - 04:35 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Oct 18 - 03:57 AM
DMcG 22 Oct 18 - 02:09 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Oct 18 - 08:26 PM
bobad 21 Oct 18 - 07:42 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Oct 18 - 07:17 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Oct 18 - 06:55 PM
David Carter (UK) 21 Oct 18 - 04:11 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Oct 18 - 03:35 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 02:48 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 02:47 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 02:47 PM
Stanron 21 Oct 18 - 02:30 PM
David Carter (UK) 21 Oct 18 - 02:22 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Oct 18 - 12:57 PM
Raggytash 21 Oct 18 - 12:34 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 12:23 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Oct 18 - 11:28 AM
David Carter (UK) 21 Oct 18 - 10:07 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 07:36 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 06:49 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Oct 18 - 06:39 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 06:35 AM
Iains 21 Oct 18 - 06:32 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Oct 18 - 06:27 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Oct 18 - 06:27 AM
Iains 21 Oct 18 - 06:18 AM
Iains 21 Oct 18 - 06:14 AM
Iains 21 Oct 18 - 06:00 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 05:24 AM
Iains 21 Oct 18 - 04:58 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 04:54 AM
DMcG 21 Oct 18 - 04:29 AM
Iains 21 Oct 18 - 04:15 AM
DMcG 21 Oct 18 - 04:04 AM
Iains 21 Oct 18 - 03:51 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Oct 18 - 03:40 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 18 - 06:54 PM
DMcG 20 Oct 18 - 06:44 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Oct 18 - 05:42 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 18 - 05:32 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Oct 18 - 05:19 PM
Iains 20 Oct 18 - 03:56 PM
Nigel Parsons 20 Oct 18 - 03:32 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 18 - 03:29 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Oct 18 - 03:18 PM
Nigel Parsons 20 Oct 18 - 03:09 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Oct 18 - 01:00 PM
DMcG 20 Oct 18 - 11:15 AM
Iains 20 Oct 18 - 11:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 04:35 AM

It's quite amusing in a dark sort of way to hear that the man who devised the bus lie now sez that leaving the EU would be a mistake. :-)


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 03:57 AM

"Once your argument is shot down in flames, rely on berating the opposition!"
The problem with that Nigel is the worst offender(s) offer no argument other than their original opinion which they refuse to discuss in terms other thna contempt for those who disagree with it - serially
You tend not to abuse, rather, you refuse to comment on the awkward bits on the grounds that it would incriminate your government - very familiar to those of us who are hooked on courtroom dramas
TRY THIS
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 02:09 AM

Also, do not forget that the latest promises are based on borrowing or additional taxes - ie you, dear taxpayer, pay more - whereas the bus message was based on the taxpayer paying no more, or possibly even less as the 'Brexit divided'would be covering it.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 08:26 PM

Several things, Nigel. First, as you know (unless you're a babe-in-arms), government promises are worth diddly squat. To give you just one example of a recent Tory promise, immigration was promised to go down to "the tens of thousands." When this did not even begin to happen (on Theresa May's watch), the promise was miraculously downgraded to "an aspiration." Second, £350 million was a lie, as it did not represent anything like our net contribution to the EU, which was far less than £350 million a week. A barefaced lie, Nigel. Third, and this is just a prediction of course, once we leave the EU there'll be little or no extra money for the NHS because the country won't be able to afford it. Watch that space. Fourth, your Tories don't give a flying shite about the NHS in any case. So which bit of my argument is "shot down in flames," Nigel dearest?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: bobad
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 07:42 PM

Once your argument is shot down in flames, rely on berating the opposition!

BINGO!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 07:17 PM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 12:34 PM
Nigel,
Ask yourself a question, what proportion of the public read the side of the bus and asked themselves "does that mean the NHS will only get a part of #350 million a week and if so what part"
Or did they perhaps believe that the NHS would get all of the #350 million every week, this week *, next week, next month, next year.
*from the date we leave the EU, I wouldn't like you to get upset about semantics of the NHS getting that amount before we leave the EU.

As I've already stated, there is already a promise of a payment to NHS even greater than that shown on the bus (if the comment on the bus is taken as promising £350 million per week). What is the problem? Is it that the labour party wouldn't match that funding?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:55 PM

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 03:35 PM
"...the government has already (since the referendum) promised an even greater sum to the NHS..."
Sure, Nigel, sure..
NURSE...!


Once your argument is shot down in flames, rely on berating the opposition!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 04:11 PM

Staines makes no arguments. He merely reproduces tittle-tattle. He is of no value.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 03:35 PM

"...the government has already (since the referendum) promised an even greater sum to the NHS..."

Sure, Nigel, sure..

NURSE...!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:48 PM

See - I was so much enjoying it I posted it twice!
Jim


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:47 PM

"Jim, I am disappointed in you! I thought you knew better than to encourage this nonsense."
Which nonsense - it's hearest I ever come to bloodsports and for me a mention of the drunken con-man blogger is an indication that your opposing poster has run out of what few ideas as he can manage to muster
Jim


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:47 PM

"Jim, I am disappointed in you! I thought you knew better than to encourage this nonsense."
Which nonsense - it's hearest I ever come to bloodsports and for me a mention of the drunken con-man blogger is an indication that your opposing poster has run out of what few ideas as he can manage to muster
Jim


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:30 PM

I read all this as you being unable to attack the arguments you attack the character.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:22 PM

Sure Jim, but every time Iains or his fellow travellers quote him, remind yourself and anybody who might be reading that he is an ex bankrupt and convicted drink driver. Thats who he is, it isn't just a footnote, that is his very nature.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 12:57 PM

Jim, I am disappointed in you! I thought you knew better than to encourage this nonsense.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 12:34 PM

Nigel,

Ask yourself a question, what proportion of the public read the side of the bus and asked themselves "does that mean the NHS will only get a part of #350 million a week and if so what part"

Or did they perhaps believe that the NHS would get all of the #350 million every week, this week *, next week, next month, next year.

*from the date we leave the EU, I wouldn't like you to get upset about semantics of the NHS getting that amount before we leave the EU.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 12:23 PM

"Don't call him Guido"
We know that David - as does Iains
It is a feeble attempt at a wind-up
Not even he is stupid enough.... Oh, I don't know though!
I see Nigel is still ducking and diving the real issues and continues to defend these people and their near criminal activities
BRITISH BOMBS FOR THE YEMEN
"A NATIONAL DISGRACE"

No same with Tories eh
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 11:28 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 06:54 PM
"We send the EU £350 million a week. Let's fund our NHS instead."
Nigel, you do realise, don't you, that "instead" in the above is intended to persuade the whole populace, not just clever interpreters of nuance, that the NHS was going to get the £350 million (a lie as it happens: the net contribution is far less) that would otherwise go to the EU? Or do you perhaps believe that the statement was aimed only at those with degrees in semantics and that the rest of us undeserving ignorantes could go hang?


Your interpretation of the words includes an inference (that the whole of the £350 million would go to the NHS), that is not, however, spelt out on the bus.
Nice to see you describing yourself as an ignorante rather than your previous claim to be a "well-educated scientist".

Whichever way it was intended to be read, the government has already (since the referendum) promised an even greater sum to the NHS Here Making the comment on the side of the bus a 'conservative estimate'!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 10:07 AM

Don't call him Guido. His name is Paul DeLaire Staines, and he is a former bankrupt with several alcohol related convictions.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 07:36 AM

"Lets be having a few examples of the above since universal suffrage was introduced."
Rather makes the point that Parliamentary democracy has never been much more than a sham - an unfulfilled promise of change so that things could remain the same
The post war Labour Government came nearest by beginning to build a "land fit for heroes to live in" after the war but the Thatcheralikes put an end to that one as soon as the opportunity arose

Guido again?
So hard pressed for responses that you have to fall back onthe blogs of a political cretin
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:49 AM


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:39 AM

Because it hasn't happened doesn't justify in the slightest what was done in tbe referendum campaign.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:35 AM

"Anglophobic nonsense at it's worst"
You need to get out more
Britain is being disgraced daily by teh behaviour of this Government
Brexit was about keeping immigrants and refugees out - very few people deny that, certainly those who are aware of the economic consequences
The next major wave of refugees is likely to be of Yemenis escaping the slaughter being caused by British fighter planes sold to the Saudis by our arms dealers
When the refugees turn up on Britain's shores they will be turned away, as are so many escaping British supported oil wars - also fought by British arms
This shit has gone far beyond a political issue and is now approaching a crimes against humanity level
I see you people seem to given up on the idea that Brexit is now the will of the majority of the British people, which is why you are shit-scared of a second referendum
Long live democracy, eh!!
The only true gauge of the true feelings of the British people is to be found in demonstrations like that magnificent one yesterday - people have long stopped believing that elections mean anything other than more shit on their doorstep
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:32 AM

But in a TRUE democracy the electorate is properly and honestly INFORMED before being asked to vote.

Lets be having a few examples of the above since universal suffrage was introduced.

You confuse ideals with reality. Do you read the Guardian?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:27 AM

First sentence should have started with "As we are..."


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:27 AM

"Rush to federalism": As a large and influential member of the EU there can be no "rush to federalism" without our say-so. We have the veto.

"True democracy in action": Well, democracies are predicated on universal suffrage, true enough. But in a TRUE democracy the electorate is properly and honestly INFORMED before being asked to vote. We live in a country in which, at best, lip service is paid to political education; at worst, it's frowned on. Of course, we have the radio and the telly, oh, and social media, God help us. And we also have the Mail, the Sun and the Express and blogs by far-right idiots, all of which deal in confirmation bias on a very shallow level, ruthlessly manipulating the electorate into one chosen political direction whilst demonising those on the other side. An electorate well-educated in politics wouldn't be anywhere near as easy to manipulate, but that is what we have not got. Both sides in the referendum campaign exploited this in the most unprincipled manner, by lying, misrepresenting and making totally unjustified predictions. The trouble with giving just voting statistics in order to declare that "true democracy" was served is that this aspect is completely ignored. Asking people to vote on a huge issue about which they are deliberately kept uninformed and misinformed, and which is in essence giving them an irrevocable decision, has nothing to do with TRUE democracy, and anyone who claims that it is could use a good dose of political education themselves.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:18 AM

And now to more serious stuff from Guido.
A petition to put the face of St Maggie of middle england on the £50 pound not.



https://order-order.com/2018/10/15/petition-put-maggie-new-50/


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:14 AM

Brexit has debased the image of Britain and its people throughout the world - it has painted us as hate-filled Little Englanders who have never really left the Empire


Anglophobic nonsense at it's worst. Nearly 1/2million non British voters were allowed to vote in the referendum. Who knows their voting intentions?

Wonder why that never hit the mainstream. Cypriots, Maltese and Irish were allowed to vote.


https://www.rt.com/uk/340061-irish-commonwealth-eu-referendum/

It rather nails the stupidity of the insulting term "little englander"


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:00 AM

Since you have a fixation on young tommy, 500,000 voted for him! How many were on the march?

It puts a rather different perspective on the March than the headlines would have us believe.

I believe it is called "vocal minorities!"


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 05:24 AM

"care not a fig for the common man"
Not like those who refer to them as "rentamob" or "remaiiacs" of course
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 04:58 AM

I think I would prefer probabilities to be mre accurately expressed as possibilities. Both sides are jockeying and posturing and we have no idea as to the behind the scene discussions. We merely know what we are told. A no deal   hurts the EU equally, but the EU cannt be seen to be soft because Italy is lurking in the wings watching closely. The euro is a very dodgy currency and the disparate economies of the EU will likely tear it apart, if diktat continually comes from the center.
We have clearly seen the evil gnomes of Brussls and Strasburg care not a fig for the common man and will allow nothing to impede their rush to federalism. History shows that taking more and more powers to the center and ignoring the populace only has one eventual outcome.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 04:54 AM

" remainiacs increasing levels of hysteria?"
Fuheress Thatcher preferred the term "rentamob" which summed up here contempt for bot the people and democracy, just as it does here
Brexit no longer has majority support - it hasn't even had it in parliament without a massive bribe
It was always based on a plea to xenophobia, but even that has been over-redden when the consequences became clear
If the leavers were so confident that they could win again, they would have no opposition to a second referendum - nothing has changed - my arse it hasn't

Brexit has debased the image of Britain and its people throughout the world - it has painted us as hate-filled Little Englanders who have never really left the Empire
Throughout all this it has strengthened neo-nazism - it has put scum like Tommy Robinson back on the streets and has empowered monsters like Trump and Orban - achievements to be proud of!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 04:29 AM

The level of information has changed, which is substantial. The likely consequences of the deals, while still probablistic, have different probabilities now. (I know some don't regard changes in probabilities as changes in facts, but they are). They are many statements from business on how they may react to a bad deal. Yes, "may react. This is not "will'. Nor is it "won't"

Even leavers are very concerned that the deal we end up with may be very different from the deal they voted for, hence all the BRINO stuff.

Yes, a lot has changed.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 04:15 AM

The People's Vote March
At yesterdays rally (attended by an unknown number according to the Metropolitan Police)
London Mayor Mr Khan told the crowd: "What's really important is that those that say that a public vote is undemocratic, is unpatriotic, realise that in fact, the exact opposite is the truth.

"What could be more democratic, what could be more British, than trusting the judgement of the British people."

Surely the judgment of the people was expressed with the brexit referendum?

Has anything changed, other than the remainiacs increasing levels of hysteria?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 04:04 AM

" It will be argued, with some justification, that it was made up almost entirely of people who voted Remain in the first place, "
The interviewees on the demonstration indicated that this was not the case


The Telegraph show what I mean by how it will be argued. This is the start of an article, the rest is behind a paywall. It is possible that section completely reverses the introductory tone, but I doubt it:

Berets, juvenile posters, and EU-themed wigs: Did the ‘People’s March’ dispel any of its stereotypes?

According to its official line, the so-called "People’s Vote" campaign is neither for nor against Brexit - it merely wants the electorate to “have a say” on the final deal.
But looking among the many thousands of placards, banners, and t-shirt slogans between Park Lane and Parliament Square in London yesterday, it was curiously impossible to spot a single pro-Brexit message.
The slogans ranged from the mainly conventional and often amateurish - “Stay Sane and Remain”, “We are the People Too” - to various, predictable anti-Tory insults. But there were also the odd jarring or downright offensive notes, including one poster joking about the government’s recent appointment of a suicide minister,...


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 03:51 AM

Brexit was never a democratic decision - it was decided on a 'populist' call to keep immigrants out and it has now infested the western world, first with Trump, then with with neo-fascist governments throughout Europe - all jumping nn 'let's get rid of the immigrants' bandwagon'


        Votes        %
Leave        17,410,742        51.89%
Remain        16,141,241        48.11%
Valid votes        33,551,983        99.92%
Invalid or blank votes        25,359        0.08%

DEMOCRACY IN ACTION!


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 03:40 AM

" It will be argued, with some justification, that it was made up almost entirely of people who voted Remain in the first place, "
Ythe interviewees on the demonstration indicated that this was not the case
The only way May has maintained a majority in Parliament is by bribing a sectarian party to vote for her, using taxpayers money - even that is crumbling
Democratic or what!!
Brexit was never a democratic decision - it was decided on a 'populist' call to keep immigrants out and it has now infested the western world, first with Trump, then with with neo-fascist governments throughout Europe - all jumping nn 'let's get rid of the immigrants' bandwagon'

I've steereed clear of this forum since I realised that the right here had 'Mod on its side' - seemed little point i continuing.
But standing back and watching the Little Englanidism in full flow has been educational, to say the least
"Brexit is democratic" - "Ireland should leave the E.U" - who are these people and what part of the Universe do they occupy?
I understand that yesterday's demonstration was onluy the first - the organisers need the get their act together before the lemmings take Britain over their Rule-Britaniaism cliff
Jim Carroll

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 06:54 PM

"We send the EU £350 million a week. Let's fund our NHS instead."

Nigel, you do realise, don't you, that "instead" in the above is intended to persuade the whole populace, not just clever interpreters of nuance, that the NHS was going to get the £350 million (a lie as it happens: the net contribution is far less) that would otherwise go to the EU? Or do you perhaps believe that the statement was aimed only at those with degrees in semantics and that the rest of us undeserving ignorantes could go hang?


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 06:44 PM

Where does this leave the "will of the people" sham I wonder?

With regret, I think it leaves things completely unchanged. It will be argued, with some justification, that it was made up almost entirely of people who voted Remain in the first place, and we already knew there were millions of those. There were some 160 coaches from all over the country: if we said 50 in each, that still makes the whole thing largely Londoners, which we knew was remain in the first place ... The arguments for ignoring it will be widespread.

However, since there was a march it is essential it was large. Farage's event in Harrogate pro-Brexit mustered 1,200. Even a figure much larger than that but just a smidgen less than the 100,000 originally suggested would be used to make the argument that the media and a few fanatics (on Mudcat!) care, but the ordinary person doesn't.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 05:42 PM

Haddock-Face admitted as much once the BrexShitters had won the referendum. But Nigs seems to know more about it than the guy who led the Leave campaign...or is pretending he does.


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Subject: RE: Brexit#2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 05:32 PM

Read your last sentence again, Niglet. It means nothing. The bus message was perfectly clear and contained a perfectly clear lie. If you think it meant anything else other than the exceptionally simple and direct message that the NHS would get an extra £350 million per week, I'm afraid you're deluded. That's what it said and that was one hundred percent what it intended people to believe. Cheers.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 05:19 PM

"If Corbyn and Labour's response to Brexit is not already a pantomime of confusion we now appear to have an argument within the party as to whether bullying trumps brexit. It could only happen within Labour. What fine entertainment!"

Supported by an article from the Torygraph? As The Beast of Grantham once said, "They would say that, wouldn't they?".


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 03:56 PM

If Corbyn and Labour's response to Brexit is not already a pantomime of confusion we now appear to have an argument within the party as to whether bullying trumps brexit. It could only happen within Labour. What fine entertainment!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/17/labour-facing-civil-war-bercow-bully-row/


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 03:32 PM

Steve Shaw: Just give up now. You fail to make the points you intend.
I did NOT 'associate' myself with the bus message. But I did point out, quite clearly, that it did not say what you believed it to say.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 03:29 PM

You associated yourself with a crap bus message that carried the crappiest of crap views, Nigel. Just give over, why don't you.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 03:18 PM

WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE THE "WILL OF THE PEOPLE" SHAM, I WONDER


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 03:09 PM

Backwoodsman
Once again you link to an article which supports your viewpoint, but which spouts crap. Definitely supporting your view:
They'll be left in their water-damaged homes with no heating oil and no aspirin --
Aspirin is manufactured in USA and China (so we don't have to rely on EU supplies) It is also manufactured by Aspar pharmaceuticals. (in the UK)
Once one comment in any article can be shown to be totally crap, surely it calls into question anything else in that article.

You believe what you wish. But by quoting crap articles you are associating yourself with crap views.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 01:00 PM

A very interesting article here giving the view of a German commentator, and showing their regret at the lemming-like behaviour of the UK in general and our esteemed and revered PM in particular.

BTW, I'm joking about May being 'esteemed and revered'.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 11:15 AM

Well, my view is that because of the Good Friday Agreement and the fact it must be the line along which the EU and the UK interact (since the word 'border' some find problematical) means that for anyone who thought about it at all before voting this was self evidently going to be a problem. It is not, I would say, the EU weaponising the problem but the UK failing to think about it, as they failed to plan so much else. Even now, when Brexiteers talk about it they only seem to see it as a trade issue, so all their plans forget about the political and social aspects and only talk about financial paperwork.


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Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 11:04 AM

My view is that it is something that only the north and south can decide. For the EU to pick on it as a blunt hammer says a lot about the character of the EU negotiators, that they are prepared to weaponise an issue, that any rational person can see, has the capability of reopening old wounds.
That they are quite happy to run the risk of reawakening sectarian warfare in order to bludgeon a brexit/nexit agreement gives a clear indication of what sort of governance some are more than happy to embrace.
Not for me I am afraid!


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Mudcat time: 22 October 12:30 PM EDT

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