Brexit #2

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 06:32 AM

But any abuse aimed at Theresa May is not based in racism, whereas much of that directed at Diane Abbott is inherently racist in nature. That's the difference.

Good to see idiocy is alive and well. Care to illustrate with an example of inherent racism.

It always helps to be accurate:
Hippopotamidae: The animals' upper parts are purplish-gray to blue-black, while the under parts and areas around the eyes and ears can be brownish-pink.

Cetaceans:Most whales tend to be various shades of light to dark grey, blue and black, which may lighten or darken as the whale ages.

Some whale species may also appear to be a brownish color while the beluga whale is born white.

If you include toothed whales such as the amazon river dolphin (all species of dolphin belong to the toothed whale family) then the color palette may also include yellow and pink.

Lardass may superficially resemble a whale of hippo but a comparison on colour just does not hack it, and luckily nakedness is another attribute she does not share.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 06:27 AM

"The backward man"
Welcome to the club Baccie - must be feeling the cold he's been left out in
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 06:14 AM

But any abuse aimed at Theresa May is not based in racism, whereas much of that directed at Diane Abbott is inherently racist in nature. That's the difference.

Politicians have always been regarded as 'fair game' for lampooning and mickey-taking - it goes with the job - but racist abuse, for instance comparing a black female politician to a very large, black, semi-aquatic mammal, is completely out of order.

Not clever, not funny.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Stanron
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 06:02 AM

Yes we should have consideration for Diane Abbott being type 2 Diabetic, but we can be totally abusive of Theresa May who, I think, has type 1 Diabetes.

Ignorance or hypocrisy?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 05:54 AM

The backward man, our resident Coprolaliac, is a fine one to talk about insults:

A few gems off this thread alone:

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 12:00 PM BrexShiteers

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 04:02 AM ...... the turd-polishing job that Jacob ("Call me Jake") Rich-Mong and his bunch of rich, self-serving Brexit Crazies are doing on their Hard-Brexit plan.
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:56 AM Unfortunately, the Brexiteer Brain seems to allow propaganda, slogans, and sound bites to over-ride truth and common sense.
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 12:14 PM ..... but you must remember that the Brexiteers are 'taking are cuntry back',
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 05:41 AM That would be better than nowt, but best of all would be to abandon what is, and has been from day one, an utter debacle and an impending disaster. The Brexiteer Bumpkins will 'get over it' or, if they don't, they know where the door is....
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 07:40 AM The Brexiteer Dumbfucks should hang their heads in shame that their gullibility, stupidity, and xenophobia has dumped this pile of crap on, not only our senior politicians, but also the entire population of the UK, the vast majority of whom did not express a desire to leave the EU in that ludicrously flawed referendum.
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 04:15 PM how we will be 'taking are cuntry back', and many lies and exaggerations. And, not long after the referendum, I recall one particular Tory Brexiteer-dumbfuck announcing that the Exit Agreement would be 'the easiest Agreement ever' to negotiate.

All this, for no other reason than to ensure that the likes of Rees-Mogg, the Rothermeres, Rupert Murdoch, et al can continue their dodgy tax-avoidance/evasion schemes, while the plebs pay for the entire debacle.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 05:43 AM

"but she's the one that's targeted repeatedly on this forum"
Quite true, that's what happens what you get stuck with one of those on your forum, isn't it?
He'll be telling us next that proven sexual predator, Sir Philip Greene was unjustly accused because of a legal technicality - nah - he'd never go that far !!
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 05:13 AM

Of course Ms. Abbott isn't the only one, Jim, but she's the one that's targeted repeatedly on this forum. And she's the one referred to in recent days as 'Abbacus' and, elsewhere, as 'Abbopotamus'. Hence my specific points in her defence.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 05:03 AM

It is pretty self evident that any shortages that are present in existing drug supplies are going to be exacerbated by crashing out of the EU, the customs union and the single market.

Arguing that current shortages under the existing system mean that additional shortages caused by leaving it can be disregarded is analogous to climate change deniers who argue that, if natural processes are a factor in causing climate change, there is no point in reducing human activities that contribute to these changes. Essentially, don't worry about adding fuel to an existing fire.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 04:43 AM

A little reality:
Six in ten UK hospital pharmacists encounter medicines shortages daily, finds survey, including responses from nearly 300 UK hospital pharmacists.

The survey, the results of which were published in a report on 7 November 2018, asked a total of 1,666 hospital pharmacists in 38 countries about their experiences with medicines shortages.

It found that 36% of hospital pharmacists experience shortages on a daily basis across the EU.

However, the survey revealed the shortages are experienced at nearly twice that rate in the UK, with 60% of hospital pharmacists reporting daily medicines shortages.
From another report:
January 25, 2018

Last year was one of the worst years for medicines shortages for NHS patients, and the situation is unlikely to improve, a senior health service figure has said.

The Medicines for Europe conference heard that shortages of previously abundant generic drugs is an issue throughout the continent.

A perfect storm of pricing pressures, increasing costs, and procurement policy is causing issues across the EU, with countries such as Portugal, Romania and Estonia the worst hit.

Maggie Dolan, regional pharmacy procurement specialist at NHS Commercial Solutions, said the UK issues had been caused by an industry-led legal challenge to the health service’s procurement of drugs.

The shortages are affecting products such as analgesics, anaesthetics and antibiotics which have been available for years.

Participants included 291 pharmacists working in UK hospitals, just under 30% of whom said they experience medicines shortages on a weekly basis — nearly 10% less than those working in the EU (39%).

The EAHP, which represents more than 22,000 hospital pharmacists in 35 European countries, said in its report that the supply issues “have become more problematic” since its last survey in 2014, with 92% of respondents in 2018 reporting that the shortages are a problem compared with 86% in 2014.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 03:46 AM

It'll be Jeremy Corbyn's fault. Just you see.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 02:47 AM

" from John McDonnell, on the disgraceful racist, sexist campaign of attacks on Diane Abbott..."
Not quite, Baccie

SHE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE, OF COURSE
THat's what happens when you make racism a major issue of British politics

A COUNTRY UNITED BY BREXIT

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 02:47 AM

" from John McDonnell, on the disgraceful racist, sexist campaign of attacks on Diane Abbott..."
Not quite, Baccie

SHE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE, OF COURSE
THat's what happens when you make racism a major issue of British politics

A COUNTRY UNITED BY BREXIT

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Jan 19 - 01:50 AM

I was talking about this yesterday with my nephew's fiancee, who is a nurse. Her experience is that such shortages are not rare but are, in most cases, connected with the renegotiation of contracts with the drug companies. Acting in the interests of their shareholders, the companies usually try to increase the price or at least maintain them, whereas the NHS is usually keen to reduce it, especially on drugs where the development cost have already be compensated for. So you get a stand off during which the drug supply is halted. She has experienced this many times.

Brexit is a factor because it impacts the exchange rate and hence the cost of any drug prices in euros or dollars. It is also a factor because drug companies for entirely sensible business reasons are wondering when the most profitable time to sign a new contract will be: now or in a few months time. And this works at other levels: the companies that supply the raw materials to make drugs go through a similar process.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 09:07 PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45958713

And another one.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 09:04 PM

Oo look, another good article on medicines,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599417

and a whole discussion including research, regulations, new medicines, and new medical devices

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43118667/chris-morris-explores-how-brexit-could-affect-medicines-and-medical-research

Other BBC bits and pieces on these topics

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45727317

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 08:57 PM

Thinking about medicines and Brexit, the BBC has a good article on the topic here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46843631

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 08:16 PM

And I never thought I'd agree with John Major. But I agree with John Major.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 07:00 PM

John McDonnell could have mentioned the Tory "promise" in 2010 that net immigration would be reduced "to the tens of thousands." May was the home secretary who lied to us, saying, after the promise had been comprehensively broken, that the promise had, after all, not been a promise but a mere "aspiration."

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:56 PM

The BBC have been pushing a story about a “surge in shortage of common medicines”, reporting that 80 medicines were on the “shortage of supply” list in December which the NHS can pay a premium for, “up from 45 in October”. Naturally they are trying to link it to Brexit with the entirely nebulous line that “there are now concerns that uncertainty over Brexit will only make the situation worse”. What the BBC fail to mention until much further down the article is that this number is actually down on the figure for November 2017. They even have a graph showing it…

Scroll down yet further and the article explicitly states: “Generic shortages started peaking in 2017, so it is not possible to say that this issue has arisen because we are so close to Brexit” before quoting Sandra Gidley, chairwoman of the English Pharmacy Board who was also a Liberal Democrat MP from 2000 to 2010. Her words: “Brexit is not a factor… Shortages have been a problem for some years. It’s a fluctuating problem.”

A furious Whitehall source said: “This sort of scaremongering is completely outrageous – and to have it coming from a broadcaster that is meant to act in the public interest is unacceptable.” When even a Lib Dem is saying Brexit is not to blame you know you’re on shaky ground…

https://order-order.com/2019/01/18/bbc-disproves-brexit-medicine-scare-story/

You can always rely on Guido's accurate reporting to highlight the duplicity of the BBC. No doubt some would blame the weather on Brexit as well.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:39 PM

Hopefully the final word, from John McDonnell, on the disgraceful racist, sexist campaign of attacks on Diane Abbott...

https://www.facebook.com/1011891022185237/posts/2669447033096286/

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:12 PM

I had to look 'tant pis' up too! :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 03:43 PM

By the way, I had to ask Mrs Steve what that meant. I was quite good at French at school but I couldn't get my head round things like tant pis, eh bien and alors. I'm ok with tant pis now. I could become obsessed with using it. If you don't like it, tant pis.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 03:39 PM

I also know it, John. Tant pis.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 03:23 PM

Guys, guys, guys! The Mods - at least some of them - regard those who challenge the misogyny, racism, insults, and sundry, random verbal abuse put about here by Iains as 'a bunch of bastards'. I know this to be fact.

The only way to show who the true bastards are is by not responding, either directly or indirectly, to anything he posts.

Ignore him! For fuck's sake, IGNORE HIM!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 02:09 PM

I imagine Rees-Mogg is regretting launching his bid to have May dumped by the Tory Party prematurely.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 01:49 PM

A time honoured thing ....

Not to mention James Gillray (1756/7–1815), Thomas Rowlandson (1756–1827), and George Cruikshank (1792–1878)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 01:37 PM

Incidentally, parodying and ridiculing politicos is a time-honoured thing. I recall John Major depicted with underpants outside his top pants and John Gummer as a carbuncle on Maggie Thatcher's nose. Steve Bell exaggerated George Osborne's nose-cleft out of all proportion and Tony Blair was a stary-eyed maniac, but only via one eye. John Redwood was the alien with no nipples and Gordon Brown became a gross caricature of himself with all his grumpy features exaggerated. Dubya had a mouth like a trumpet mouthpiece and Trump is bright orange, etc etc. All that is part of the game. But guess what. Sexism and racism absolutely aren't.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 01:32 PM

Amen to that Steve
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 01:23 PM

Why can't we just cut him dead completely? If we do that he'll either stop or it'll be much easier for the mods to deal with him.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 01:07 PM

While not wishing to prolong this I do recall a reference to Abbottpotamus or simliar coming from Iains.

Perhaps Iains you should temper your name calling and stick to the discussion. I am sure the Moderators have far better things to do with their time than delete obnoxious posts.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 12:52 PM

"Iains' misogynistic and occasionally racist language aimed at a black woman politician is a different matter"

I see little jimmie is still mad as a hatter. Waste of time asking him to substantiate his allegations. One thing you can be sure of with jimmie. Ask for proof and watch him run!

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 22 Mar 18 - 02:23 PM :..... Mayfly,
                            .......Ellie May

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 12:12 PM

Ignore the goose-stepping lads
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 11:55 AM

Surely any request to treat politicians with respect has to be weighed up next to the fact that respect doesn't come as a privilege to anybody but needs to be earned
Few politicians can claim that, which is why they are treated at best, with mistrust, but more likely with contempt
THIS SEEMS TO SUM IT UP

Iains' misogynistic and occasionally racist language aimed at a black woman politician is a different matter altogether and fully earns the contempt it is due
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 11:54 AM

Better stop your compatriots talking about the PM as Maybot and other such insults. A Little more respect for the President of the US from the shouty lefties here would not go amiss either.

Are nicknames for politicians and erroneous labeling everyone with a counter view purely a prerogative of the leftards?

...... are perfectly happy themselves to post in appallingly offensive, racist terms about black politicians, Travellers, Irish citizens etc.

I think one of those labels has been proven wrong quite conclusively. Perhaps the backward man would care to put his money where his mouth is and substantiate his other allegations!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 11:30 AM

Nigel, I have a favour to ask. I think it was you who suggested that Policitians should be treated with respect. If that is the case could you have a word with your friend Iains and ask him to refrain from calling Diane Abbott "abbacus" which I have to admit is a slight improvement on his previous term for her.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 10:20 AM

McG, it's a very well-known and well-documented effect of low blood-glucose - a.k.a. 'going Hypo'. If I start to go slightly Hypo, I feel clammy, my hands shake, and I feel unable to think straight or perform even simple mental tasks. Google it.

Diane Abbott is a diabetic.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 10:17 AM

Tell you what - I'd ten times sooner listen to Diane's delivery than I would to Gove's. And who could forget Thatcher's ghastly tones?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 09:09 AM

Difficulty in processing information on the fly as an effect of diabetics? I hadn't heard of that - but it occurs to me it could be in a factor of how the Maybot operates, especially when faced with questions in public, since she also has diabetes.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 08:25 AM

" Some men just cannot cope with intelligent women.."
Yes dear -I'm sure you're right :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 08:13 AM

I find it ironic that some of those who are quick to censure others who, like me, drop the occasional expletive into a post, and to claim that to use that language displays a lack of breeding, intelligence, or education, are perfectly happy themselves to post in appallingly offensive, racist terms about black politicians, Travellers, Irish citizens etc., yet seem not to consider what message that gives out about themselves.

And I was very surprised, and not a little saddened, to discover recently that those who are prepared to challenge others who post in racist terms here are regarded by at least some of the moderators as 'bastards'.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 07:25 AM

"Given the racist sh*t that Abbott has experienced through her career the fact she is still going shows sterling qualities. Great role model. More power to her elbow. One man's 'difficulties processing information on the fly' is another man's 'showing the ability to provide a considered response'. Some men just cannot cope with intelligent women."

Spot on Karen. Some men will also be incapable of comprehending what you wrote, or understanding its truth.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 07:16 AM

Car insurance to get dearer due to Brexit uncertainty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46922989

Such fun!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 07:11 AM

Given the racist sh*t that Abbott has experienced through her career the fact she is still going shows sterling qualities. Great role model. More power to her elbow. One man's 'difficulties processing information on the fly' is another man's 'showing the ability to provide a considered response'. Some men just cannot cope with intelligent women.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 06:36 AM

Can't disagree with that Baccie, but tht's what she should be judged on
If all MPs were judged on their abilities and dedication, I very much doubt if all but a few of them would merit more than a d-minus "must try harder" - go look at the empty seats in filmed Parliamentary sessions
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:54 AM

Diane Abbott has a very unfortunate problem - two, actually.

The first is that she sometimes has difficulty processing information 'on the fly'. I suspect that this is a by-product of her diabetes, a result of blood-glucose deficit and, as a fellow-diabetic who suffers similarly from time to time, she has my sympathy. Her intelligence, as evidenced by her Masters from Newnham College, Cambridge, is undeniable. Rather than abusing and lampooning her for her occasional, almost certainly diabetes-induced, brain-farts she should be congratulated for sustaining a high-level career despite her condition.

The second and, for me, more serious problem is, in fact, the one that should be comparatively easy to correct - her manner. DA has a very unfortunate way of speaking - she sounds patronising, as though she considers everyone else an imbecile. I'm astonished that she doesn't seem to have had training to improve her verbal delivery, and I'm sure she would benefit enormously from voice- and presentational coaching.

Otherwise, she is a good example of a fair-minded, socially-aware politician, undeserving of the abuse heaped upon her by her intellectual inferiors.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:44 AM

Diane Abbott has long been the target of misogynist right wingers with a race problem - (the language used to vilify here often betrays these prejudices) especially when she forgets her place and claims rights reserved for the Tory elite
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:33 AM

It's a bit like all those wealthy Tories who loved to excoriate the unemployed by accusing them of living the benefits lifestyle, what with their flat-screen tellies and their smartphones, etc., while their landlord mates were creaming off all of the housing benefit money plus some and their lackeys at the job centre were "sanctioning" people because the bus they came on was a few minutes late...

Yup, the true colours don't take much to show through...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:23 AM

I find the idea that socialist politicians should travel second class while Tories lord it over us hilarious. Just shows how some Tory supporters are based firmly in a non existent rose coloured past. To attempt to discuss anything important with such people is impossible so don't even try!

Now, back to the show. Has anyone else spotted that while May is trying to divert attention from her disastrous plans by blaming Corbyn for scuppering talks, her own chancellor is telling businesses leaders that a no-deal brexit could be taken off the table?

Guardian article

He also goes on to say that article 50 could be rescinded. I suppose it it is, it will be down to Corbyn being the mastermind behind ISIS :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:17 AM

When I attended a Question Time at the Eden Project, the panellists appeared to arrive in a fleet of Beeb cars. Mind you, it's tough getting there by public transport, and it was many moons ago. The point about Diane Abbott is that she spoke accurately on the point of recent polls but was shouted down/ridiculed for doing so, aided and abetted by Fiona Bruce and the obnoxious Ms Oakeshott, who were both clearly uninformed, or, worse, telling lies. Whether polls can be relied on or not is utterly beside the point.

What was it that the great John Seymour once said, Nigel? It's useless having knowledge poured over you. You have to go and grab it for yourself. In your case, that means checking facts that you doubt before spouting off about how other people are trying to mislead poor old you. It's becoming quite a habit with you, and the danger is always that you'll end up with egg on your face. As here.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 19 - 05:15 AM

Can anyone explain what Diane Abbott sitting in a First Class railway carriage has to do with the topic of this thread - the BrexShit process?

If not, the post that introduced that issue is, by the definition in a later post made by the very same person who introduced it, a trolling post.