Brexit #2

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 02:15 AM

See also The Independent

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/uk-universities-bust-no-deal-brexit-eu-deal-students-finances-bailout-bankruptcy-a8710216.html

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 02:11 AM

There is a Guardian article about research projects, staffing etc, EU-based research grants. There is no way the government has the money to replace what the unis seem to have been gaining. But then knowledge is so commodified that once again how far 'we' as opposed to businesses gain is unclear. We'll lose some kudos for sure. And no point in having new cancer treatments unless you can afford the medical fees by the time austerity has finished with the NHS as turned it into a lifestyle advice service as per the aims of the current minister.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jan/04/a-no-deal-brexit-seriously-threatens-uk-universities

"There are many other serious implications for universities of crashing out of the EU without a deal on 29 March. These span procurement, data protection, the mutual recognition of qualifications and intellectual property. The contribution that universities make to local economies, through employment, services and support for regional supply chains, will also be put in jeopardy. Perhaps most importantly, a no-deal Brexit will compromise the vital research links which benefit wider society, from new cancer treatments to technologies combatting climate change."

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 05:51 PM

I saw a brief bit today that UK universities are very concerned about the negative effects that Brexit could have on them.

I'm lacking access at the moment, due in part to the music having my attention.

Perhaps someone could find a link!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 05:32 PM

Not too much discussion going on here is there - just trading insults.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 04:01 PM

Sadly, Jim, whom I respect without agreeing with everything he says, together with his 'temper' (his term), are the Jack in the Box.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 02:44 PM

I agree with Dave the Gnome. It's like watching somebody playing with a Jack in the Box toy.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 02:31 PM

"Treason May"
Whatever happened to It's anti British to insult our elected representatives ?
These little Englanders are caricatures
Alf Garnett - where are you when you're needed
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 02:11 PM

No problem, DtG. Enjoy the music, BWM! I don't have anything planned until Sunday :(

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 01:58 PM

Sorry Dave, just having a bit of fun. It makes me laugh, the way The Nasty Party and their supporters try to turn every disaster they cause by their own incompetenence and deceit back on the Labour Party. Every question JC asks The Praying Mantis at PMQs is responded to with, "Ah but, ah but, what happened when the Labour Party was in power eight years ago?". Just like our resident Right-Wing Extremist, she never answers a question.

Anyway, time to go out and play some music - have a good weekend.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 01:49 PM

Sorry DMcG. Just bad timing. My comment was meant much more for Steve and BWM.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 01:29 PM

As usual, you're talking through your hat. The greedy, nasty Tories caused this disaster, it's their responsibility to sort it out. Nothing to do with any of the other parties (except possibly the terrorist arm of the Conservative Party - the DUP).

Deceitful and spineless. You should hang your head in shame (except, of course, you don't have the grace).

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 01:04 PM

Ian's, why are you trying to make this a party-issue?

Do not all mps have a vote? Are labour going to abstain when the vote on treason may's deal is put to the commons

Is it a party issue? Is the pope a Catholic?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 12:33 PM

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 12:33 PM

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 11:38 AM

"I thought only Jim was falling for it now but it seems contagious."
I really have stopped - I heeded what Baccy told me - whoops - what happened there ?
You know what they say - "no sense, no feeling"
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM

I was only responding to Backswoodsman!

One of the clear markers of Brexiteers is that it is always someone else's fault if the dream is not realised. It is May ("She's a Remainer"), or judges ("enemies of the people") or Remainers obstructing things, or the EU ("punishing Britain") or, or, or …

Never anything to do with them.

Sorry, you take responsibility for how you voted, whether it turns out badly or well.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 11:00 AM

He's got you dancing again, lads :-( I thought only Jim was falling for it now but it seems contagious. Now, take a deep breath and repeat 10 times "I will not respond" :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 10:58 AM


The Tories made their bed, it's for them to lie in it. It's got SFA to do with Labour, the SNP, the Lib-Dems or anyone else. The entire blame for the whole steaming, festering pile of excrement that you feeble-minded, Union-Jack-waving cockwombles were fooled into voting for lies with The Conservative and Unionist Party, no-one else, and they are the ones who should, and will, carry the can in the final analysis.

Almost true. Even now I hope I got it wrong and Brexit will turn out to have been a great idea. I can't say I think it likely, but I would still love to be wrong.

If, on the other hand, I am not wrong, then in my view those who fell for the lies take some responsibility as well. But rathermore so those insist they did not fall for any lies and insist they voted for Leave with clear eyes and a full understanding of what it would entail. I don't feel inclined to let them put all the blame on the Tory party.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 10:49 AM

Ian's, why are you trying to make this a party-issue?

The Tory government decided there would be a referendum. The Tory PM of the day decided to announce that the result would be binding, and on the basis of a simple majority, despite the fact that the standard referendum terms in the U.K. are that referendums require a super-majority.

The current Tory PM decided to press ahead with Brexit, and has steadfastly turned her back on any and every suggestion, including by members of her own Cabinet, that Brexit should be a cross-party project.

Jeremy Corbyn's position on Brexit, indeed the position of the Labour Party itself, is of no consequence - they have no representation on the Brexit team, and no say in the way the process is run.

It's the Tories' project. That's the way they wanted it, so that they could call all the shots and ensure that the true purpose of Brexit - to enable their small but immensely-wealthy cadre of tax-avoiding masters to escape the stringent anti-tax-avoidance regulations being introduced by the EU in mid-2019 - is fulfilled.

The Tories made their bed, it's for them to lie in it. It's got SFA to do with Labour, the SNP, the Lib-Dems or anyone else. The entire blame for the whole steaming, festering pile of excrement that you feeble-minded, Union-Jack-waving cockwombles were fooled into voting for lies with The Conservative and Unionist Party, no-one else, and they are the ones who should, and will, carry the can in the final analysis.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 10:27 AM

I get all my information from The Daily Mash. Iains gets all his from Guido Fawkes. You decide who is the sillier. Answers on a postcard, please, closing date April 1st.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 10:22 AM

"BWM, you have not pointed out to NP the NP that the link may contain certain inaccuracies. Vengeance will be heaped upon thee! :-)"

Like I give a FF! ;-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 10:21 AM

Labour’s ambiguous Brexit stance is now untenable
I wonder if the fence corbyn sits on is strung with razor wire? You cannot beat a little party unity.

https://www.ft.com/content/f0d676d4-0ead-11e9-b2f2-f4c566a4fc5f

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 09:11 AM

BWM, you have not pointed out to NP the NP that the link may contain certain inaccuracies. Vengeance will be heaped upon thee! :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 08:11 AM

Can't see anything wrong with that Baccie
I'd say she was overqualified, considering their track record - May wants to make sure she doesn't take her job
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 07:58 AM

Having demonstrated what a greedy and dishonest bunch of scrotes the current government are - even by Tory standards - by their Seaborne Freight ferry scam, one could almost be forgiven for believing that this could be genuine...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 07:14 AM

Once again. There wasn't any existing EU constitution for Labour to to have a referendum about. The one referred to had already been vetoed by two other countries.

There was never any kind of promise to have a referendum about membership of the EU in that manifesto.

Unlike the firm and unambiguous promise I mentioned in Tory referendum of 2017: We will maintain all other pensioner benefits including free bus passes, eye tests, prescriptions and TV licences, for the duration of this parliament.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 06:58 AM

Seaborne, not Sherborne! I visited the town recently so autotext helpfully changed it for me...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 06:39 AM

"Green cheese isn't far off the mark Dave
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 06:39 AM

I expect we all realised that, Nigel, but even spoofs that are not intended to be any way factual rely on references, taken to the extreme, to things that occurred in reality. So the 13m paid to Chess Pizza, for example, refers the terms and conditions of Seaborne being adapted from those for a fast food delivery.

Taking of stating the obvious, Seaborne said those Terms and Conditions were "an error." Yes, we can all see that. But what is this specific error? Is it, for example, that the web developer had two sets of T+Cs, both mentioning Sherborne, one of which was for a takeaway and the other the real set, and somehow he uploaded the wrong set? Or was the error that the board of Sherborne had not p4oduced a proper set of T+Cs? Let's drop this anodyne reference to an error, and spell out what the error really is.

And why were these oddities not spotted in the "thorough" due diligence process undertaken by Grayling's department? The spoof rightly compares that failure - while taking to deliberately absurd extremes - to failing to spot a fake offer from a Prince.

There can be truth in simile and metaphor, you know.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 06:38 AM

MORE

Gets even better
MORE STILL
Maybe their planning to export pizzas !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 06:31 AM

Yes, Nigel. And, for the record, The moon is not made of cheese, I am not really a garden ornament and nitpicking does not require the nit nurse.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 06:28 AM

JUST IN CAE PEOPLE TAKE NIGEL'S LAST POSTING SERIOUSLY
Keep up Nigel - old news
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 06:21 AM

Just in case anyone takes Dave's link at face value, here's how the Rochdale Herald describes itself:
Daily news, satire and comment from the world’s worst local newspaper.
The Rochdale Herald is a satirical, spoof, parody commentary on current affairs, and stuff that annoys and amuses us. We make it up and it’s not intended, in any way whatsoever, to be considered factual.
From their own website Here

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 05:53 AM

Chris Grayling awards ferry contract to Nigerian Prince

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 05:43 AM

Keep EU referendum promise, MPs tell Brown
"One of Tony Blair's last acts was to renege on a promise and it is almost unbelievable that one of Gordon Brown's first has been to do the same," she writes. "There is still time for Gordon Brown to put this right.(July 2007) That is labour mps talking.
" What a bloody stupid promise it was from your lot in the first place. You've forgotten that bit."
Indeed you have. You just cannot trust Labour, unless economy wrecking is the subject under discussion!






https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1558786/Keep-EU-referendum-promise-MPs-tell-Brown.html

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 05:33 AM

Isn't it strange how quickly criticising elected politicians stops being unpatriotic ?
Funny old world !!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 05:24 AM

Broken Tory Promises from May 2017.

A few more with no apologies for redressing the balance.

Enjoy

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 04:53 AM

Why not just accept Labour lied, as usual? Waffling around the small print fools not a soul. Even your own party supports Brexit.
Below from the official labour website

Where We Stand

Labour's Plan for Brexit
Labour respects the result of the referendum, and Britain is leaving the EU.

More Lies from Labour mayhap?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 03:01 AM

And don't forget there will be no general election :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 08:20 PM

Then was was Georgie-boy's 2010 promise that the deficit would be gone by 2015 and Maybot's promise that immigration would be cut to the tens of thousands.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 07:50 PM

Tory promises in a manifesto are worthless. Remember the last one with its firm promises that free TV licences for people over 75 were guaranteed for the whole of the next Parliament? Torn up and forgotten. Hopefully not by those over 75s who have been daft enough to vote Tory previously.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 07:15 PM

"But conservatives held to their promise to the electorate to hold a referendum,unlike Labour who reneged on their promises."

Well yes, apart from what Kevin has said to correct your perspective about Labour and its promises. But now here's summat. What a bloody stupid promise it was from your lot in the first place. You've forgotten that bit. A complete abnegation of the way our democracy is run. Sniffily praising the Tories, especially the idiotic Cameron, for plunging us headlong into utter foolery may chime with whatever principles you might be adhering to, but some of us are just a tad more interested in the actual wellbeing of the country. Sod your Tory principles and sod the Tory party's ever-present need to stave off its own right-wing and the proto-fascistic UKIP. Apart from one or two of you on here, it's amazing how quiet brexiteers have become about those future "opportunities" of ours. Wot we have patently not got. Unless you know different but wot you are cleverly keeping secret from the worried rest of us.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 06:25 PM

True enough, the 2005 Labour manifesto promised to put any EU constitution to the public - but that promise was dependant on their being a ratified constitution, and there wasn't, because it was rejected by the French and Dutch.

Instead we got the Treaty of Lisbon, which wasn't a constitution. It was this Treaty that got initially narrowly rejected in an Irish referendum, but then accepted when presented again for a second referendum with some slight (but significant) adjustments - thus demonstrating that Ireland is a considerably more democratic country in this respect than the UK. Support for EU membership in recent polls in The Republic runs at around 84%.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 05:33 PM

And while these 1000 police are undergoing training, they cannot be preventing or solving crimes in the rest of the UK. All part of the cost of Brexit!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 04:52 PM

It will probably be required DMcG. It will not only be goods across the border but when the EU tax laws are tightened up there is likely to be a mass migration of tax exiles moving to third world UK!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 04:44 PM

Here is the beady eye of guido on the situation:


https://order-order.com/2019/01/03/eu-preparing-clobber-ireland-tax-brexit/

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 04:40 PM

Not only are they reducing taxation, one of the main drivers for brexit is so their rich puppet masters can use the UK as a tax haven once the EU tightens up avoidance legislation.

Tell me. Why are so many global companies based in Ireland?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/eu-commission-pushes-ahead-with-plan-to-end-unanimity-on-tax-1.3746080 (Synopsis:The ending of unanimity would carry significant risks for Ireland, particularly as the EU continues to discuss plans to come forward with a common tax base for big corporations across Europe and eventually to consolidate collection of this tax. This would threaten Irish corporate tax revenues and would meet strong opposition from the Government and from businesses.)
It would seem the Irish are finally waking up to the realities of being obstructive

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/emergency-eu-aid-for-farmers-to-be-sought-for-brexit-fallout-37677

and what about the 13billion that appl was forced to pay in back taxes due to irish shenanigins.
https://www.thejournal.ie/apple-tax-ireland-escrow-3889453-Mar2018/

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 04:23 PM

The good thing about this thread, including the tone of some of the debate, is that it shows the fractures that exist within the UK, which have been exacerbated, though probably not created, by Cameron's decision to hold a referendum.

But conservatives held to their promise to the electorate to hold a referendum,unlike Labour who reneged on their promises.
( 20 April 2004 the PM told Parliament it should debate the European constitutional question "in detail and decide upon it" and "then let the people have the final say".He ended the Commons statement with the war-cry: "Let the issue be put. Let the battle be joined." Fast-forward to the Labour election manifesto in 2005 and the language is as forthright.
Blair promises: "We will put it [the constitution] to the British people in a referendum and campaign wholeheartedly for a Yes vote."

Also worth noting:
the Labour manifesto in 2017 was a hard Brexit manifesto. It promised to leave the European Union by “accepting the result”, and that “freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union”.
How do our resident lefties square the circle on those little gems?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 04:10 PM

More police for "hard border" in Ireland

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 03:27 PM

No one will, Raggytash. If it has not happened in 30 months I cannot see it happening now.

Sent you an email on another matter BTW but I dunno if you are in a position to pick it up.