Brexit #2

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:35 AM

"Anglophobic nonsense at it's worst"
You need to get out more
Britain is being disgraced daily by teh behaviour of this Government
Brexit was about keeping immigrants and refugees out - very few people deny that, certainly those who are aware of the economic consequences
The next major wave of refugees is likely to be of Yemenis escaping the slaughter being caused by British fighter planes sold to the Saudis by our arms dealers
When the refugees turn up on Britain's shores they will be turned away, as are so many escaping British supported oil wars - also fought by British arms
This shit has gone far beyond a political issue and is now approaching a crimes against humanity level
I see you people seem to given up on the idea that Brexit is now the will of the majority of the British people, which is why you are shit-scared of a second referendum
Long live democracy, eh!!
The only true gauge of the true feelings of the British people is to be found in demonstrations like that magnificent one yesterday - people have long stopped believing that elections mean anything other than more shit on their doorstep
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:39 AM

Because it hasn't happened doesn't justify in the slightest what was done in tbe referendum campaign.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 07:36 AM

"Lets be having a few examples of the above since universal suffrage was introduced."
Rather makes the point that Parliamentary democracy has never been much more than a sham - an unfulfilled promise of change so that things could remain the same
The post war Labour Government came nearest by beginning to build a "land fit for heroes to live in" after the war but the Thatcheralikes put an end to that one as soon as the opportunity arose

Guido again?
So hard pressed for responses that you have to fall back onthe blogs of a political cretin
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 10:07 AM

Don't call him Guido. His name is Paul DeLaire Staines, and he is a former bankrupt with several alcohol related convictions.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 11:28 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 06:54 PM
"We send the EU £350 million a week. Let's fund our NHS instead."
Nigel, you do realise, don't you, that "instead" in the above is intended to persuade the whole populace, not just clever interpreters of nuance, that the NHS was going to get the £350 million (a lie as it happens: the net contribution is far less) that would otherwise go to the EU? Or do you perhaps believe that the statement was aimed only at those with degrees in semantics and that the rest of us undeserving ignorantes could go hang?

Your interpretation of the words includes an inference (that the whole of the £350 million would go to the NHS), that is not, however, spelt out on the bus.
Nice to see you describing yourself as an ignorante rather than your previous claim to be a "well-educated scientist".

Whichever way it was intended to be read, the government has already (since the referendum) promised an even greater sum to the NHS Here Making the comment on the side of the bus a 'conservative estimate'!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 12:23 PM

"Don't call him Guido"
We know that David - as does Iains
It is a feeble attempt at a wind-up
Not even he is stupid enough.... Oh, I don't know though!
I see Nigel is still ducking and diving the real issues and continues to defend these people and their near criminal activities
BRITISH BOMBS FOR THE YEMEN
"A NATIONAL DISGRACE"

No same with Tories eh
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 12:34 PM

Nigel,

Ask yourself a question, what proportion of the public read the side of the bus and asked themselves "does that mean the NHS will only get a part of #350 million a week and if so what part"

Or did they perhaps believe that the NHS would get all of the #350 million every week, this week *, next week, next month, next year.

*from the date we leave the EU, I wouldn't like you to get upset about semantics of the NHS getting that amount before we leave the EU.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 12:57 PM

Jim, I am disappointed in you! I thought you knew better than to encourage this nonsense.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:22 PM

Sure Jim, but every time Iains or his fellow travellers quote him, remind yourself and anybody who might be reading that he is an ex bankrupt and convicted drink driver. Thats who he is, it isn't just a footnote, that is his very nature.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:30 PM

I read all this as you being unable to attack the arguments you attack the character.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:47 PM

"Jim, I am disappointed in you! I thought you knew better than to encourage this nonsense."
Which nonsense - it's hearest I ever come to bloodsports and for me a mention of the drunken con-man blogger is an indication that your opposing poster has run out of what few ideas as he can manage to muster
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 03:35 PM

"...the government has already (since the referendum) promised an even greater sum to the NHS..."

Sure, Nigel, sure..

NURSE...!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 04:11 PM

Staines makes no arguments. He merely reproduces tittle-tattle. He is of no value.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:55 PM

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 03:35 PM
"...the government has already (since the referendum) promised an even greater sum to the NHS..."
Sure, Nigel, sure..
NURSE...!

Once your argument is shot down in flames, rely on berating the opposition!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 07:17 PM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 12:34 PM
Nigel,
Ask yourself a question, what proportion of the public read the side of the bus and asked themselves "does that mean the NHS will only get a part of #350 million a week and if so what part"
Or did they perhaps believe that the NHS would get all of the #350 million every week, this week *, next week, next month, next year.
*from the date we leave the EU, I wouldn't like you to get upset about semantics of the NHS getting that amount before we leave the EU.
As I've already stated, there is already a promise of a payment to NHS even greater than that shown on the bus (if the comment on the bus is taken as promising £350 million per week). What is the problem? Is it that the labour party wouldn't match that funding?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: bobad
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 07:42 PM

Once your argument is shot down in flames, rely on berating the opposition!

BINGO!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 08:26 PM

Several things, Nigel. First, as you know (unless you're a babe-in-arms), government promises are worth diddly squat. To give you just one example of a recent Tory promise, immigration was promised to go down to "the tens of thousands." When this did not even begin to happen (on Theresa May's watch), the promise was miraculously downgraded to "an aspiration." Second, £350 million was a lie, as it did not represent anything like our net contribution to the EU, which was far less than £350 million a week. A barefaced lie, Nigel. Third, and this is just a prediction of course, once we leave the EU there'll be little or no extra money for the NHS because the country won't be able to afford it. Watch that space. Fourth, your Tories don't give a flying shite about the NHS in any case. So which bit of my argument is "shot down in flames," Nigel dearest?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 02:09 AM

Also, do not forget that the latest promises are based on borrowing or additional taxes - ie you, dear taxpayer, pay more - whereas the bus message was based on the taxpayer paying no more, or possibly even less as the 'Brexit divided'would be covering it.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 03:57 AM

"Once your argument is shot down in flames, rely on berating the opposition!"
The problem with that Nigel is the worst offender(s) offer no argument other than their original opinion which they refuse to discuss in terms other thna contempt for those who disagree with it - serially
You tend not to abuse, rather, you refuse to comment on the awkward bits on the grounds that it would incriminate your government - very familiar to those of us who are hooked on courtroom dramas
TRY THIS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 04:35 AM

It's quite amusing in a dark sort of way to hear that the man who devised the bus lie now sez that leaving the EU would be a mistake. :-)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: peteglasgow
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 04:16 PM

apparently the government have agreed 95% of the final agreement with the EU. with the irish border being the 5% obvs.

hurrah- a triumph for the diplomats.

but does anyone know what that 95% entails? would the EU negotiators agree with this figure. for example i assume the status of us working on the continent and vice-versa be all settled but i don't feel reassured at all. do we still enjoy assurance from ECHR?
it's all a puzzle eh?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 04:32 PM

Only 95% sorted? Humans and chimpanzees share 98.8 of their DNA.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 05:20 PM

I immediately thought "Reader, I didn't marry him."

That's only about a 0.0001% change to the book...

(Percentage made up: no point anyone working out the actual percentage!)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 06:31 PM

Er, but nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Remember?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 03:26 AM

"I immediately thought "Reader, I didn't marry him.""
Wan't he groping around blindly and bumping into things when she finally did?
Nice analogy !
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: peteglasgow
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 06:54 AM

i'm just off to skipton for a night out - probably discussing brexit in the sound bar and later in the sheep. with green woolly hat - dave the G?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 01:50 PM

A most unusual comment section from the Daily Mail.

Who knows, they may eventually acknowledge their part in this little saga.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 08:05 AM

Out of interest......

For all the countries in the world we benefit from being part of visa-waiver artangments with the EU, how are we going to FORCE those countries to extend/continue these arrangements if/when the UK leaves the EU?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 08:18 AM

We can't force them, no. I lsuppose the theory is that they will continue because it is in our mutual interest. But of course, it will require a negotiation with each of the countries to do that, which will all take time...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 08:34 AM

Not acceptable, new arrangements must be in place to ensure a seamless transition. The rest of the world has had more than a year and a half to prepare for this, and if they lack the intellegence to realise that the UK government are too incompetent to secure new measures, then the heads of state should be sacked on the spot.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 09:20 AM

As of 9 October 2018, British citizens had visa-free or visa on arrival access to 186 countries and territories, ranking the British passport 5th in terms of travel freedom (tied with Austrian, Dutch, Luxembourgish, Norwegian, Portuguese and the United States passports) according to the Henley Passport Index.

Travel within the Scgengen area is another matter entirely as is visa free for EU citizens.
Eu citizens freedom of travel outside the EU is dependent on citizenship

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 09:41 AM

" then the heads of state should be sacked on the spot."
Might well be a bit academic after tonight
Jim Carroll

CONFIDENCE VOTE IN MAY COULD BE CLOSE
UK ‘drawing up plans' to charter ships for emergency food and medicines
DENIS STAUNTON London Editor
Theresa May will address the 1922 Committee of Conservative backbenchers this evening amid rumours that the number of MPs seeking a confidence vote in her leadership is close to the threshold of 48.
Her appearance before the committee follows what Downing Street described as an “impassioned” cabinet discussion of her Brexit strategy yesterday.
The prime minister’s official spokesman brushed off an RTÉ report that the EU is prepared to offer Britain a legally binding, UK-wide customs backstop.
“Take any of it with a pinch of salt. The PM set out our position yesterday in relation to the backstop. That remains the case today. The prospect of Northern Ireland being placed in a different customs arrangement to the rest of the UK is unacceptable. The House of Commons has voted to pass a law to that effect,” he said.
According to the report, the withdrawal agreement would still include a Northern Ireland-only backstop, and the UK-wide version would be in a separate treaty to be concluded after Britain leaves the EU next March. The withdrawal agreement would, however, contain a specific commitment to a UK-wide customs arrangement by way of a legal article.

FOUR STEPS
In the House of Commons on Monday, Mrs May outlined four steps to resolve the issue of the backstop, including a demand that the UK-wide customs backstop should be legally binding so there would be no need for a Northern Ireland-only version. Downing Street said later that any Northern Ireland-only backstop was unacceptable.
During yesterday’s cabinet meeting, ministers are report¬ed to have warned that Britain must not remain in a tempo¬rary customs arrangement with the EU for an extended period and that any backstop must not be indefinite.
The cabinet is to receive weekly updates on preparations for a no-deal Brexit and the Financial Times reports that the government is drawing up plans to charter ships to bring in emergency supplies of food and medicines.
The government fears that in the event of a no-deal Brexit, new customs controls in France could create a bottle¬neck on the Dover-Calais route.
“Whatever we do at our end, the French could cause chaos if they carry out checks at their end,” one government official told the Financial Times.
“Dover-Calais would be the obvious pinch point. The French would say they were only applying the rules.”
Edward Leigh last night became the 50th Conservative MP to sign a StandUp4Brexit pledge to oppose Mrs May’s Chequers proposal and demand a hard Brexit.
The signatories, who include Boris Johnson, David Davis and Jacob Rees-Mogg, also oppose the backstop, claiming it cuts Northern Ireland off from the rest of the UK.
1922 Committee chairman Graham Brady indicated yesterday that he has not yet received letters from 48 MPs calling for a confidence vote in Mrs May. If he does, he must call such a vote, which is conducted by secret ballot and the prime minister’s adversaries will need 159 votes to topple her.
If she survives the vote, she cannot be challenged again for a further 12 months.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 10:14 AM

From: SPB-Cooperator
24 Oct 18 - 08:34 AM
Not acceptable, new arrangements must be in place to ensure a seamless transition. The rest of the world has had more than a year and a half to prepare for this, and if they lack the intellegence to realise that the UK government are too incompetent to secure new measures, then the heads of state should be sacked on the spot.
Yet another comment based on ignorance of the conditions of Article 50. The UK is unable to 'secure new measures' while we remain a part of the EU. (as good a reason as any for leaving)
Also, why are you calling for The Queen to be sacked? She, and only she, is our 'head of state'.

Jim: You tend not to abuse, rather, you refuse to comment on the awkward bits on the grounds that it would incriminate your government - very familiar to those of us who are hooked on courtroom dramas
You seem not to realise that it is not just 'my' government, but the government of the whole UK (so the government of of lot of those arguing against Brexit as well).

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 10:36 AM

Nigel, I do not recognise them as my government.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 10:38 AM

That is, I do not recognise the May regime as the legitimate government of the UK. They may have won an election, but so did Assad.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 11:01 AM

"You seem not to realise that it is not just 'my' government, but the government of the whole UK "
It is riven with so many divisions it can no longer claim to be representative on anybody - it certainly has never adhered to any of the promises that got them elected in the first place
Parliamentary politics has only ever paid lip-service to democracy, but the present situation is based on rabble-rousing against minorities - Enoch's sick dream brought to life
Populism has replaced democracy and is in the process of breeding neo-fascist regimes

"but so did Assad."
And Hitler, of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 11:14 AM

The Queen wouldn't come into this as, as far as I am aware, UK nationals do not need a visa to travel in the UK.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 09:11 AM

Boeing, the world’s largest plane maker, has opened its first European manufacturing site in Sheffield.

The company will make components for 737 and 767 passenger jets at the new UK operation, with plans to produce thousands of parts each month which will be shipped to the US for assembly.

Brought by guido

https://order-order.com/2018/10/25/sheffield-soars-ahead-boeings-first-european-factory/

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 09:24 AM

That's good news. 52 jobs....

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 09:35 AM

Typical of Brexit pre-planning, the board set up to examine to problems of the Irish Border are now about to start work !!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 11:51 AM

Very important reminder for The Brexit Bunch...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 09:01 AM

Argentina eyes Falklands again

Ok, it is just a politician talking. But even so, I wonder how many anticipated this could kick off again?

At least we have many more cruise ships we could commandeer this days. (though, I am not sure how many are owned by UK companies any more, so maybe not.)

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 09:48 AM

Merkel is stepping down after 2021. Surely this will impact the whole Brexit discussion?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 10:36 AM

I don't think that who is Chancellor of Germany has much impact on the UK, brexit or no brexit. Unless its an AFD headbanger of course.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 11:30 AM

Brexit is due 29 March, 2019, with a transitional period to 31 December, 2020
Angela Merkel has said this will be her final term as German chancellor, confirming that she will not run in 2021.

However she is likely haemorrhaging power big time between now and then.
Good for UK bad for EU. How sad!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 11:55 AM

The party which seem to be doing well in recent German elections are the Greens. And thats good for the whole planet.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Nov 18 - 09:07 AM

To stop this thread falling off the end, some recent Brexit events have been:

* Raab implying the deal will be agreed by 21st November and having to backtrack.

* Aaron Banks facing an investigation by the National Crime Agency into potential illegalities in the Leave campaign funding.

* The (belated) awareness by the UK fishing sector that EU countries may yet get access to UK waters.

* The home affairs committee being decidedly unimpressed by the Home Office preparations for Brexit.


P

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 18 - 09:17 AM

RUSSIAN BREXIT !!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Nov 18 - 11:18 AM

As DMcG mentioned earlier Arron Banks is to face a criminal investigation into the, possibly illegal, funding of the leave campaign.

When this was mentioned some time ago by myself and others we were told we were talking nonsense.

The investigation by the National Crime Agency may well throw up some very uncomfortable disclosures for the leave side here.

Could someone please link to the article in todays Guardian.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Mossback
Date: 01 Nov 18 - 12:08 PM

Here You Go