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Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 22 Oct 18 - 12:31 PM The Ballads of the Great War - Live Join the author Michael Morpurgo and the BBC Philharmonic in this very special event to mark 100 years since the end of the First World War. Michael Morpurgo will read passages from his books, War Horse and Private Peaceful, and in combination with the musical performances and vivid testimonies, pay tribute to people whose lives were so greatly affected by a terrible conflict. This will be one of the significant commemoration broadcasts marking the centenary of the armistice. https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules/p00fzl8v/2018/11/09 now shows; BBC Radio 2 09 November 2018 20:00 World War One Ballads of the Great War - Live 1 hour 57 minutes |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Sarah the flute Date: 14 Oct 18 - 05:59 AM 10 years ago (gosh was it really that far back!) I called for the ceilidh with the London Lasses at the Folk Prom - the acts included Bellowhead, Bella Hardy and Martin Simpson - not an orchestra in sight! (but a lot of guitar tuning I recall). |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: FreddyHeadey Date: 11 Oct 18 - 08:22 AM I predict a repeat of the points above for a radio2 "Friday Night Is Music Night" coming up... The Ballads of the Great War - Live 19:50 Fri 9 Nov 2018 MediaCityUK, Salford ... This edition of Friday Night is Music Night on BBC Radio 2 showcases the outstanding songs composed for the award-winning radio series, The Ballads of the Great War. The songs, written by some of the UK’s top folk musicians, are based on recordings of real people describing their experiences in WWI at home and abroad. The songs have received stirring new orchestral arrangements by Greg Lawson, and will be interwoven with the poignant testimonies that inspired them. Respected folk artists Bob Fox, John Tams, Chris While, Julie Matthews and Jez Lowe will sing the songs, along with popular music from the time. ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e8zcd4 Neither the schedule or actual programme are on the BBC website but here is a link for Fri 9 november if you're hoping to listen. https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules/p00fzl8v/2018/11/09 |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Vic Smith Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:21 AM They should have had Ashley Hutchings convene a special Albion Band for the occasion! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Bonzo3legs Date: 10 Aug 18 - 06:10 AM They should have had Ashley Hutchings convene a special Albion Band for the occasion! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 10 Aug 18 - 06:02 AM Prom 27 Folk Music A review from the Independent; This Prom was to folk music as Disney is to a child’s imagination: brighter, louder, larger and so much less than the real thing. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,yet another guest Date: 09 Aug 18 - 01:05 PM Funny that the b'' awful Unthanks represented ENGLISH song- If a Northumbrian dance band were to chosen to represent the 'English' music tradition, that would be atypical, wouldn't it? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Bonzo3legs Date: 09 Aug 18 - 09:37 AM Just watched a few fragments of this "Folk Prom" - more than enough of Sam Lee who couldn't even be bothered to tuck his shirt in??? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Yet another guest Date: 09 Aug 18 - 06:59 AM As someone who loves all sorts of music - folk, blues, jazz, classical, opera, brass band etc. etc., I fail to see how any attempts to categorise music can be seen as useful. I think it was Louis Armstrong who said something like 'its all folk music, I ain't ever heard no horse playing it'. I must admit I kind of draw the line at country and western though. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 09 Aug 18 - 06:21 AM "How many actually consider themselves folkies... " Probably none or very few. That was the whole point of it. A previous - and different - Guest, I assume. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,guest Date: 09 Aug 18 - 05:05 AM "How many actually consider themselves folkies..." if that was the question, then how the f=ck would anyone know, making it a totally pointless question in the first place. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 08 Aug 18 - 02:20 PM That's why I asked a question rather than make a dogmatic assertion... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,guest Date: 08 Aug 18 - 02:15 PM "How many actually consider themselves folkies... " Probably none or very few. That was the whole point of it. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 08 Aug 18 - 09:38 AM There is a niche market for budget priced classical versions of pop/rock music genres CDs, which are probably bread and butter for jobbing classical musicians... I've not looked, but I'd presume even punk has been given a classical make over for shopping mall background music... ============= btw.. I looked at that Albert Hall audience and thought... How many actually consider themselves folkies... .. and how many of them would enjoy, or at least politely applaud, my treatment of trad folk if it ever gets posted on the internet...??? I'd count myself lucky if even a handful of more progressive reviewers didn't hurl abuse at me for my efforts... ...hmmmm.. how much would it cost to hire a lower division Eastern European orchestra for a session... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,akenaton Date: 08 Aug 18 - 09:31 AM I'm afraid "folk music" as we knew it and as it has been for hundreds of years, has become obsolete. The stuff produced these days has no relation to the music of the people, probably because the working class has vanished into the sunset in search of prosperity or celebrity. The academies churn out bundles of wannabees in search of a commercial sound and the few performers with something to say have become introverted, joyless manikins. Pop is today's folk music. Close the door when you leave the building. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Tradsinger Date: 08 Aug 18 - 09:12 AM My impression was that there were far too many slow songs. Folk music is not all slow and sultry. Also, I felt that southern English music was under-represented. Having said that, folk comes in many shapes and sizes and this was one. Not to everyone's taste but I am sure many enjoyed it. Tradsinger |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,FloraG Date: 08 Aug 18 - 03:09 AM I thought it was a shame that they didn't take an orchestral tune, give it the folk treatment, and then pass it back to the orchestra to see what they could then add. One of the glories of folk is how creative and spontaneous it can be. This lacked that aspect of folk. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 07 Aug 18 - 04:06 PM Give over, Nick. You're not that flippin' old! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Will Fly Date: 07 Aug 18 - 01:52 PM Having read through this thread, I decided to watch it on the iPlayer. Didn't like it at all. Mainly because of the orchestra, which simply wasn't needed and detracted, in my view from the main performers. I also disliked Sam Lee's rather unctuous presentating style. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 07 Aug 18 - 01:28 PM Nick - Folk Proms BBC i player I think it might also be available for a short while at random times on the BBC telly red button... I'm determined to find time to properly watch all of it from start to finish, because despite my mirth at the BBC smarmy middle class telly folkies, I can still find good things to enjoy about this event... Even the orchestra conductor grimacing like a character out of an Aardman animation... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Nick Date: 07 Aug 18 - 01:04 PM Anyway you've convinced me to listen and watch it. All publicity is good publicity I'll share my thoughts I have at least met a few of the people on this thread in person. Which is nice Because I'm old is it on radio or TV playback - or are they the same these days...? Help an old man into an argument |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 07 Aug 18 - 12:02 PM I've said what I felt like saying about the BBC show, and what needs to be said to GUEST,Guest... ... in my usual good natured happy piss-taking manner.... GUEST,Guest may be someone I have interacted with over many years, or a complete newbie here... If the former, then you know me and my cheerful tongue in cheek style, so stop your petty squawking... If the latter, then I/we wont put up with his/her kind of patronising control freak behaviour - it's not welcome here... The moral high ground belongs to no one individual here.. and certainly not you...!!! Join and use a consistent ID - 'GUEST,Guest' has been overused too many times before and is neither smart or amusing... just simply unimaginative... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Vic Smith Date: 07 Aug 18 - 11:17 AM Not the way that I hoped this thread would develop and I am rather saddened by the posts that take an aggressive and insulting stance. I thought that this subject that would raise discussion on a different way of presenting folk music. Personally, I found more to dislike than to enjoy in the Folk Prom approach but I thought that at least it was interesting. We have people like Jim Bainbridge, Brian Peters, FreddyHeadedy and a couple of others being able to express their varied opinions without the recourse to the sort of insults and barbed comments that are tedious to read compared with straightforward exchanges of views. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:53 AM punkelfolkrocker . . . . and you're a coward and a bully. Hardly broadcasting your own identity are you? But you can shout and intimidate from behind your computer keyboard. What's your real name . . . where do you live? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Brian Peters Date: 07 Aug 18 - 07:18 AM "Someone reading these posts might get the impression that we're a bunch of old farts having a go at the next generation. Bunch of old farts I don't object to, but I am in contact with many young performers and I'm convinced they're doing a brilliant job and support them whenever I can as I'm sure many here do." Yes indeed. My objection is not to the next generation (many of whom I admire and have worked with, and whose musical approaches vary drastically) but the telly-friendly version of 'folk music' that this kind of thing represents. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 07 Aug 18 - 05:14 AM GUEST,Guest - you sanctimonious hypocrite... you definitely will fit in well here when you join and get a name... [50 50 chance you already are a member posting under cloak of concealment...???] mudcat fun and games... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: The Sandman Date: 07 Aug 18 - 03:58 AM Guest Guest, your point is interesting.Opinion and differing opinions are eseential to an interesting forum , if this forum was a mutual admiration society it would be boring, however personal attacks should be dealt with, and perhaps if people remembered that they should not say anything that they are not prepared to say to the persons face. The problem with internet communication is that there is no body language, and communication or words can be interpreted in many different ways simply because there is no physical presence |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Aug 18 - 03:48 AM Is this what Mudcat has become? Perhaps the old adage that "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all" has never been more germane and might make this forum a more pleasant place to visit once again. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 06 Aug 18 - 09:17 AM Well said, Jon. Similar preferences, but I am heavily involved in spreading the word to real people in all sorts of ways, writing, singing, playing, organising. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Jon Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:33 AM Well Sandman I'm far from sure I'm typical but I haven't been to a more formal type of folk club in years. I've limited opportunities and my own preferences are firstly towards tune sessions and then towards the less formal, perhaps mixed events and always with some participation element. So yes, I'd be less interested in being entertained by others but I don't believe that affects my own comments on the Prom. As for the publicity angle, I'm not sure how much I care any more and I guess I should also say that apart from knowing where my preferences are I can often struggle to work out where I am with folk. But I would even lend out my most expensive instrument short term (an OME tenor banjo that I could not afford to replace) to someone I trusted who was interested in seeing if (say) tenor banjo would be a good choice for them so I'm not against trying to offer bits of help and hope I'm not discouraging to others in anything I might get to. But I perhaps think differently to some others and do reserve the rights to have my own likes and dislikes within the broad world of folk music. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:16 AM GUEST,Guest - I've never had any interest in folk clubs, a bit too much like happy clappy sunday school for my liking... [well at least the one that put me right off in 1979 was...] but If I ever did force my self to join one, I'd happily volunteer to vet new members to make sure we didn't let in anyintolerant sanctimonious prudish prunts.... win-win for both of us, I'd reckon... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: The Sandman Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:06 AM geust guest , not sure how many of these posters go to folk clubs. any kind of publicity for folk music has to have some beneficial effect |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 06 Aug 18 - 05:55 AM Welcome to Mudcat, Guest. You'll fit in very well. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:46 AM Steve wrote "Someone reading these posts might get the impression that we're a bunch of old farts having a go at the next generation." Close: Bunch of misogynistic, foul-mouthed, aggressive and very sad old farts would be closer to the mark, to judge from this thread. Not a good advert for folk clubs. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:17 PM blame google spellcheck - or I could take full credit.. but "obsessive anateur sleuths" is a cool [and appropriate] mash up of 'anal' and 'amateur'... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:58 PM I can spot you a mile away PFR....;0) |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:56 PM Most people are vain enough to wish their words of wisdom to be attributed to themselves. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Fat arsed pfr on the bog again Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:56 PM GUEST - Consistency as a known quantity and recognisable persona.. That too simple to grasp...??? ..and I daresay over the last decade and a half I've left a big enough trail of clues to my real life boring identity... If any obsessive anateur sleuths can be arsed tracking me down... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:53 PM Guest, it complicates discussion when there are one or two people with the same handle ...or lack of any. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:40 PM So what's the difference between being an "anonymous guest", and "punkfolkrocker" or "Fat guest" ? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:15 PM Like it, Fg! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Fat guest Date: 05 Aug 18 - 10:27 AM So now we have an anonymous GUEST accusing us of all sorts of nasty things. I often wonder what it feels like to be so high and mighty passing down judgement on such scanty evidence. Must be so empowering ? Here's a suggestion. If the robustly jocular words twat and wanker so offend your over sensitivities, Then stop acting like you are either of them in our forum by talking out of your arse. And we don't care how fat, skinny, or perfectly proportioned it might be. Now, on the trendy topic of anti fat shaming. I'm too fat, I welcome anyone friends or foe, I insist you shame me as much and often as you care Until I try to regain fitness and good health. Yes, we really respect anyone so brave as to attack us under cloak of anonymity. Any of us can wimp out and post contentious views and insults as anonymous GUESTS.. Even some of us regular miscreants can try it for fun and thrills. Yours anonymously PFR, typing via mobile phone, Sat on an MDF bog seat, which is creaking and cracking under the weight of his fat arse... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 05 Aug 18 - 09:21 AM >>>>>>>>>I didn't like it myself but if it prompts just one person to get involved in the mainstream folk scene then it was worth while.<<<<< Fair comment, anon. Can't comment on your second statement except to say by what I've read online recently most folk clubs seem to welcome everybody with open arms. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 18 - 08:23 AM I didn't like it myself but if it prompts just one person to get involved in the mainstream folk scene then it was worth while. Considering the attitude here, however, anybody who does turn up at a folk club for the first time whill probably be put off by the old farts who think anybody who wasn't an acquaintance of "Bert" or "Ewan" as unworthly of notice. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Sol Date: 05 Aug 18 - 07:10 AM No pay fee - no BBC - so me no see - o lucky me. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 05 Aug 18 - 06:28 AM No, leveller, I've just been around a while & have learned through experience that such programmes are not, on my terms, worth watching. Don't recall criticising young players at all- there are some fine, sympathetic singers & musicians about but over time, they too may learn more about the nature of the music. Also, 'innovation' does not mean improvement & like Dick I'd be interested in what you mean by that- homest experiments or gimmicks? 'Folk' may have a place on glitzy TV shows the concert stage, directed by eejits who think an orchestra improves the 'product' of an unaccompanied singeer, but I don't have to put up with it, nor with 'folk' radio shows working from a commercial playlist.... I just have my own view of what the music is about & won't compromise on that. signed Jim Bainbridge on behalf of people like him |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Guest Date: 05 Aug 18 - 06:20 AM << bunch of unreconstructed misogynistic, foul-mouthed, middle-class old farts, more like. 'Three fat lasses'. 'Twat' this, 'twat' that, 'wank' the other. The great faker Lloyd got fat- but you don't hear 'dyed-in-the-wool folkies' making adverse comments on his weight rather than his performance. Thank heaven the Proms did not embarrass the country with an hour of some Walter Pardon clone singing only those fragments of some obscure Child ballad believed to have been collected directly from some oral tradition; that would have been truly boring. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: The Sandman Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:59 PM LEVELLER , What was your opinion, tell us how it was innovative |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: theleveller Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:33 PM The fate of folk music is sealed when you get people like Jim Bainbridge slagging off something innovative when he hasn't even watched it. Says it all, really. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:56 PM Someone reading these posts might get the impression that we're a bunch of old farts having a go at the next generation. Bunch of old farts I don't object to, but I am in contact with many young performers and I'm convinced they're doing a brilliant job and support them whenever I can as I'm sure many here do. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: The Sandman Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:34 PM Thank god i do not have a television, the last time i heard the unthanks i thought they had pleasant voices but in need of improving their diction, surely to be able to understand lyrics is important? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: FreddyHeadey Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:50 PM I'm not saying that the BBC is particularly following or changing the ethos of the Proms but here is a bit from Wikipedia The Proms " ... inaugurated on 10 August 1895 in the Queen's Hall in Langham Place by the impresario Robert Newman, who was fully experienced in running similar concerts at His Majesty's Theatre. Newman wished to generate a wider audience for concert hall music by offering low ticket prices and an informal atmosphere, where eating, drinking and smoking were permitted to the promenaders. He stated his aim to Henry Wood in 1894 as follows: I am going to run nightly concerts and train the public by easy stages. Popular at first, gradually raising the standard until I have created a public for classical and modern music." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Proms#Origins_and_Sir_Henry_Wood You could say they dumb down any form of music they promote or you could say they make it more accessible to a new audience. It's about what I expected. I've only played about half of it so far but it's clearly not aimed at hardened folkies. And this is the Concert orchestra. Very "radio2" rather than "radio3" if you know what I mean. I hope the audience enjoyed it and are inspired to try some more "folk". I was talking to a non-folky* friend today who had seen bits of it while doing bits around the house ... "There was a singer towards the end[Julie Fowlis] with an amazing voice. I wouldn't mind paying to hear her sing sometime" they said. So that's an extra twenty quid in someones cash box. ;)* non-folky = (previous conversation) "The trouble with folk is [long pause] everyone is so scruffy. Sorry." |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:39 PM Vic- you're a saint listening to all this stuff- I really can't stand about 99pc of what is called folk these days. Don't have a TV anyway, saw the light years ago-- so maybe Alba might be different- Maybe it's me....another birthday fast approaching 'It's nee bliddy good getting aad' as the poet Pickford says ps another dead giveaway for pretentious crap is AWARD-WINNING |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Stanron Date: 04 Aug 18 - 02:15 PM The Unthanks are on Proms Extra right now on BBC2. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 04 Aug 18 - 02:01 PM errrrmmmm... there was no orchestra to be seen or heard in the BBC Cuba reggae Proms... if only there had been to drown out that overbearing jazz wank piano player... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,IanA Date: 04 Aug 18 - 02:00 PM Grim. Just grim. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:47 PM "Why do the BBC insist on backing folksingers with an orchestra, the beauty in folksong is often in it's simplicity which the feckin BBC insist on ruining, folk singers and musicians DON'T NEED AN ORCHESTRA, the BBC still don't get it". Because it's the feckin' Proms. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Bonzo3legs Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:45 PM I can't stand Sam Lee - is he some kind of folk poke-on?? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:30 PM I recorded it specifically for the Unthanks.. it's that grinning tool Sam Lee who needs stern advice from real proletarian folkies... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Keith Price Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:21 PM I'm with Brian I wish I had said that ( awaiting Whistler's reply ) |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel Date: 04 Aug 18 - 12:10 PM I've probably used this before, but... Unthanks? No thanks. hi |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Brian Peters Date: 04 Aug 18 - 11:25 AM Didn't watch, since this is the kind of thing that is likely to cause intentional damage to my TV screen. I've had a good snigger at some of your comments, though, particularly the concept of a "bespoke middle class gentlemen folkie tellytwat costume tailor's shop". |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 04 Aug 18 - 11:08 AM BBC - Programmes categorised as Folk Music: Now and Next https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/genres/music/folk/schedules iplayer and podcasts too. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Dave Hanson Date: 04 Aug 18 - 10:06 AM Why do the BBC insist on backing folksingers with an orchestra, the beauty in folksong is often in it's simplicity which the feckin BBC insist on ruining, folk singers and musicians DON'T NEED AN ORCHESTRA, the BBC still don't get it. For me the thing was awful. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Vic Smith Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:59 AM To Pseudonymous I was not intending to disagree with you at all. The problem was that I cut too much of Steve's quotation. I was merely agreeing with the part where he wrote:- " I thought the orchestral bits were the best part and I'm a died-in-the-wool folkie of some 50-odd years." To Jim Bainbridge I think that you know what really inspires me in this music - we have talked about it often enough since the 1960s. I think the difference is that I am prepared to at least have a listen to the wider interpretation though I don't like a lot, probably most, of it and there was much I didn't like in the Folk Prom - which I didn't expect to enjoy much anyway. In your condemnation of the BBC, you really need to exclude BBC Alba which we are able to get with our new set. There are frequent and excellent programmes on traditional song and music on that channel. Yours wi' Edinburgh, Musselburgh, Aberdeen haddies.... Vic |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:33 AM Sorry Vic, i didn't watch it but have absorbed the general view of this show from the messages. Why didn't people react as I did to the word combination of BBC and Folk & just let them get on with it? It was bound to be crap.... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:27 AM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ bbc iPlayer Radio app http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3yvdp3zQJWLtl204z9nxgRt/download-the-iplayer-radio-app (then click the '+' on the programme's web page then on the app click Menu > My Radio > Listen Later) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ latest broadcasts (though not some documentary type programmes) https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/categories/music-folk |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:25 AM clicky BBC Proms - 2018, Prom 27: Folk Music around Britain and Ireland - @BBCRadio3 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bclzmv |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:48 AM To Vic Hello. I hope you are well. You seem to agree with Steve Gardam in disagreeing with me, and you point out Phil Cunningham as the joint composer of one of the orchestral bits as part of your argument. This is what I had actually said: "I have to say I did not much like some of the orchestral bits, but consider that at least one of these was written by Phil Cunningham, who is just brilliant." The post I wrote with which Steve disagreed did point out Cunningham's role. I did not have to look it up, Julie Fowlis announced it, saying she knew Cunningham well. I caught that reference to Cunningham as we saw Phil Cunningham and Aly Bain play live last year and it was highly enjoyable. So I don't think there is really that much disagreement on the orchestral front. I didn't much like the orchestral piece that opened the whole evening though. :) And for me the aesthetic of the orchestra plus other performers did not always work. But there was one part with 'bongo drums' in the background which I liked. There was a 'fusion' aspect to some of the music which I enjoyed. I did not have a 'purist' head on. I've seen other folk 'proms' eg I think one with Katherine Tickell, so I had some idea what to expect. On other points made: I'm not clear why there should be objection to a concert which deliberately included Scottish and Irish music taking a 'Celtic' turn. It might be argued that a particular song did not have 'Celtic' roots? Some interesting modes/scales/time signatures were used especially in one of the pieces featuring Alaw. For me the sound of the accordion did not come through clearly, even in bits where the camera was focused on his fast moving fingers. I liked them dancing around and cannot see why some posters have to hurl abuse at Jamie Smith for not sitting down. There is quite a lot of linked material on the BBC web site https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bclzmv and you can follow links to interview with some performers eg Jarlath Henderson. Yes, there will be differing opinions and that is only to be expected. But I would be delighted to have the chance to see any of the performers featured in the piece. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Jon Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:43 AM It was on in the living room but I didn't hear anything that really enticed me to settle there so just wandered in and out and only caught bits and pieces. For me, the best bit I heard was Julie Fowlis doing something a little more up beat. I didn't enjoy the orchestration which I felt took the music in other directions such as "Celtic". Overall, I suppose with the snippets I heard, rather than being disappointed I guess it turns out more a sort of standard fare I might have expected - I didn't have high hopes, though maybe some would say that starts me off with a particular listening bias. Oh well, each to their own I suppose and this thread does show some differing opinions... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Bonzo3legs Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:36 AM Thank goodness for BBC Radio Scotland's "Take the Floor" and "Pipeline" on this evening. I cannot listen to Sam Lee under any circumstances, likewise the Unthanks. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Vic Smith Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:25 AM Steve Gardham wrote "Hi Tzu, Have to disagree I'm afraid. I thought the orchestral bits were the best part and I'm a died-in-the-wool folkie of some 50-odd years." As someone who went to his first folk club over 60 years ago (not really playing one-upmanship, Steve!) I would have to agree. I was particlarly impressed by the piece that started the second half. A bit of internet checking found that it was part of Iona Elegy by Phil Cunningham & John Ashton Thomas. The best singing - Julie Fowlis The most ridiculous moment - The entire BBC concert orchestra playing stop-time funk chords behind the uillean pipes The thing that I thought I would ever hear - Lovely Molly sung at a slower pace than ever Jeannie Robertson at her slowest could manage. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:39 AM In 2013 at the Proms there was a fabulous staged performance of Manuel de Falla's Three-cornered Hat which is still up on YouTube. A great watch if you're feeling miserable. On August 21 1968 there was a cruel coincidence when there was a prom with a Russian orchestra, Russian conductor and Russian soloist, on the same day that Russian tanks had rolled into Prague. The soloist was Rostropovich (Slava) and, of all pieces, he was programmed to play the Czech composer Dvorak's cello concerto. There were furious protests at the Albert Hall before the concert, but Slava gave a memorably angry and tearful performance of the concerto that's gone down in the annals. It's on Youtube too. At the end he waved the score in the air and there was no doubting that his sympathies lay fully with the Czech people. So not all Proms are as forgettable as last night's! Sorry for the diversion... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Marje Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:21 AM I agree,much of the orchestral stuff sounded like a film track trying to suggest sweeping celtic landscapes or something. I didn't really notice any intonation problems bewteen singers and instruments, although some of the notes hit by Sam Lee and also the Unthanks were wavery and uncertain. However, if a singer is singing with a piano, you can't expect the pianist to tune to the voices - the singer(s) have to make it work. There is some justifictaion for tiny variations in untempered intervals, but singing flat is not excusable. Then again, there was so much going on that they may not have been able to hear the piano. Marje |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:51 PM What I did like about the orchestral bits was every so often they sounded like the swelling theme music to a good old fashioned western movie... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:37 PM Sorry about the cod gap... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:34 PM I've had many a row with guitar/fiddle players over tuning in sessions, ripov, being in the unenviable position as a harmonica player of not being able to retune (like that piano player) on the hoof. I tune all my harps to at least A442 and will not allow anyone else to tune to me. It just has to be that way, no argument. I suppose that what you say about fiddle to piano is of similar sentiment. Anyway, I must confess that I didn't pick up any particular intonation issues in the concert. I was far more stressed out by the over-loud and muddy orchestral sound and the posturings of the blokes in the trio and of Sam Lee. Also, I can't help feeling that a loud and untraditional orchestral rendering of cod- folk tunes at the beginning was just patronising. At least they avoided Danny Boy. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:27 PM Ok.. the folk prom won.. The CubanReggae prom is so dire we switched it off and erased the recording... The blame lies entirely with the egotistical piano tit, who apparently is Australia's 'premier reggae producer' and musical leader for this show... It really made the trite folk prom seem like an epic event in comparison... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,ripov Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:11 PM Steve - to my ears the proms have had a piss awful sound crew for several years. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,ripov Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:10 PM The orchestra certainly was intrusive, better to have just had the section leaders and let them improvise (it is taught in college!) But the composers/arrangers, never mind the orchestra (who probably only had one run through this unfamiliar to them material before the performance) had worked hard and that deserves some appreciation, even if you (and I) didn't like the result. Regarding intonation, July Fowlis's singing that normally would be unaccompanied, was certainly different in pitch to when she sang with et instruments, but that is as you would expect. The only serious glitch I heard was the piano, when playing bass to the unthanks, which was quite sharp. Of course pianists no longer tune their own instruments, so the poor bloke was buggered (if indeed he could hear the mistuning- pianists get inured to it). Or the the unthanks could have listened and sung in tune with the bass, even if it didn't fit with their modal/just/other-temperament intonation, like orcheatral musicians do. Do you know how dead a fiddle is when playing in tune with a piano? It's great to get to the bits where the piano shuts up. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: theleveller Date: 03 Aug 18 - 06:58 PM Quite enjoyed it apart from the Unthanks who were shit as usual. Best of all, not a pot-bellied, shaggy-faced shanty-bawler in sight. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Aug 18 - 06:45 PM I watched it from soup to nuts. The orchestra was very poor and the conductor was insensitive, drowning out the folk musicians on many occasions. Well, unless the telly sound was badly balanced, who knows (I do have an excellent-quality soundbase), but the Beeb usually gets that about right. As for the folkies, Julie Fowlis was utterly sublime and the Unthanks were very special. Their trumpet player was magical. The rest were dross. The music is everything. I don't want to see grinning people swaggering around playing very simple tunes on accordions (sit down, you tit), bald strummers swaying around affectedly or fiddle-playing blokes doing pelvic thrusts - or some very average bloke singer garrulously strutting around ethnically barefoot. The piper's alleged slow air was awful, thought I must admit that his low whistle was impressive. This was definitely a night with the ladies to the fore, showing how it's done, with the honourable addition of Adrian to that roster, a prize fellow. That's what I think and shut up now coz I'm watching the Cuban job... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 06:19 PM oh dear.. the Cuban Reggae proms is just as shite... An over domineering piano player bashing away total jazz wank bollocks non stop over everything... ..and the orchestra hasn't even kicked in yet... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 03 Aug 18 - 06:05 PM Close but no cigar. Perhaps Julie should give Sam her shoes! Roger |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Marje Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:57 PM I found most of it just embarrassing. The orchestrated bits were fussy and overblown, Sam Lee himself across as self-indulgent yet uncomfortable (and what's with the bare feet?), and the Unthanks were out of their depth, they were just dire. I actually turned the sound off at one point, I couldn't bear their half-baked vocals with all that pretentious instrumental fuss going on. Julie Fowlis, by contrast, at least sings with conviction and clarity and knows how to project and breathe, but overall there was nothing there to make me feel proud of our traditional music. And to think I missed Gardeners' World for this! Marje |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:52 PM Agreed. I enjoyed the pipes and some of the music but the songs were bloody awful! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:47 PM I wasn't keen on the orchestra mixes, but like Stanron I really enjoyed the Irish pipes. The first one they did was almost 'bluesy', and nearer to the end they did one with some tricky rhythms. That fiddle player was good. I bet they'd be amazing to dance to (if I were young enough to keep up). |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:42 PM fingers crossed the Cuba and reggae proms will be better.. but seeing as the bland middle class Albert hall crowd will get their interfering mitts on such a naturally joyous music.. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:42 PM the thinking folkies folk. Really????? I'd have said more 'brain dead' 'better than just about everything else that was on TV tonight.' Still not saying a lot. Watching paint dry would have been better than everything else. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Stanron Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:36 PM I could have done with a lot more of the Irish bloke singing and playing the flute and Irish pipes, without accompaniment. I'm not a fan of invented Welsh trad. The two presenters, worthy in their own right no doubt, but who let the orchestra in there? Big mistake. The Unthanks can do no wrong. You may not like them, I don't always like them, but they are the thinking folkies folk. Until you are sure you can do better keep shtum. Whatever happened to English instrumental music. It exists but you wouldn't think so from this program. Still it's got to be better than just about everything else that was on TV tonight. I'd like to see something like it again but without the orchestra. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:26 PM Hi Tzu, Have to disagree I'm afraid. I thought the orchestral bits were the best part and I'm a died-in-the-wool folkie of some 50-odd years. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:25 PM nothing wrong at all pseudomouse... the more the merrier.. It was a simple convenient hurried comment, until I'd finished eating and realised it must be the Unthanks who I like more than most telly folkies... As I switched on the TV, I only glimpsed the side of their bellies, clogs, and backs of their heads as they were swished off the stage... So eff off and find something else petty to take offence at...!!! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:21 PM And are there really not enough decent songs among the folksongs in English that we had to have the same song twice (Lovely Molly)? And did the organisers realise they'd done this? Indeed did the 2 singers know they were singing versions of the same song? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:21 PM Some stunning musicianship and singing. I have to say I did not much like some of the orchestral bits, but consider that at least one of these was written by Phil Cunningham, who is just brilliant. I say again, some stunning musicianship and singing. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:19 PM Oh dear, oh dear! Watched the lot. Trying hard not to use any expletives, the emperor's new clothes comes to mind. The middle classes have taken back their music after leaving it for a few centuries in the hands of the folk! If there are any spin-offs planned for The Hobbit films a good candidate there all ready. Bring back the Shire! Parody would be a generous description. The Irish stuff was great and the Welsh was okay but the rest....embarrassing! Do we really need 3 fat lasses breathy bleating the MacNally show? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:16 PM Why do male folkies strive to look like such knobs when they get all dressed up to appear on BBC telly...??? ...is there a bespoke middle class gentlemen folkie tellytwat costume tailor's shop...??? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:11 PM Whatever is wrong with a performer being pregnant? Or 'pregnant-looking'? So much for folk people celebrating fertility and the natural world then? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:08 PM You can hear it again on BBC iplayer - if you really want to. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:07 PM Well... chuff me...it actually recorded the end for once.. maybe the recorder was lulled to sleep and won't switch off and stop recording until it wakes up again... oh well.. it's set to next record the Cuban and reggae proms... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Guest - Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:06 PM "Just as some pregnant looking clog dancers left the stage..." - yes, jiggity, jiggity, ... even at the end. But many of the folk singers were flat at first voices wavering around trying to find the key. All very sugary, smaltzy, commercial and non-controversial. Too much from the Scottish Islands. What about REAL folk ballads - where were they? Ah - still in the dusty archives. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Senoufou Date: 03 Aug 18 - 04:43 PM I switched it off I'm afraid. Too commercialised, sickly/sugary and bland. Not authentic. Folk-lite! (less fat, more sugar) Disappointing. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 04:26 PM oh yeah... and what's wrong with this audience, clapping in such an irritating distracting display of pavlov dog like appreciation at the end of every few bars of diddly diddly solos...??? ..bloody middle class classical folkies... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 04:23 PM I sat down with my dinner [leftover pizza slices from last night, and fresh cooked bacon in pitta bread - I'm stuffed..] at 9.00 and switched it on.. Just as some pregnant looking clog dancers left the stage... What's on now sounds like a typical orchestral score from a Hollywood sword and sorcery movie, set in some distant past time in some non specific magical celtic land... ..ooh look dragons, and and a yank actor trying to sound Scotirish...!!! I actually set record timer for this a few days ago, so as it's BBC the recording is bound to end a few minutes before the program does... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Peter Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:26 PM That is my reaction to The Ash Grove too. I had forgotten about it until the TV automatically changed channels. I was getting dinner ready at that point and thought that it was a film starting until I looked at the screen |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,ripov Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:15 PM I have an image of the dining rooms of the nations finest echoing to strains of "the hairs on her diddy-dide...." oh shit the wife's here!. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:15 PM The BBC Radio 3 broadcast started at 7.30pm. But you can listen from the beginning on iplayer radio. The TV broadcast started - from the beginning - on BBC4 at 8.00pm. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,ripov Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:13 PM |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Senoufou Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:12 PM I'm watching it too. At the moment it's an opening medley of well-known folk songs from all over UK. A sort of 'Name That Tune'! The Scottish lady announcer is just giving us a list of what's in store. Sounds excellent! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Guest Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:11 PM The opening sounded a bit like film music to me. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST, Jos Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:07 PM Thanks for the reminder. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Stanron Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:07 PM It has just started, I'm watching. |
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Subject: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Vic Smith Date: 03 Aug 18 - 02:48 PM The Folk Prom from the Royal Albert Hall will be on BBC Radio 3 and on BBC TV 4 tonight. In a press release (totally free from any controversial content!), it says:- In a Prom that celebrates the history and evolution of the folk music scene in Britain and Ireland, the BBC Concert Orchestra collaborates with some of the folk world’s leading musicians who are pushing the boundaries of traditional music, and bringing with them a new breed of folk fan. The performers listed are Julie Fowlis-singer, Jarlath Henderson-singer, Sam Lee-singer. Alaw-Welsh folk group, The Unthanks-English folk group, BBC Concert Orchestra Stephen Bell-conductor You are cordially invited to add your comments after the broadcast. |
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