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Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
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Subject: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Vic Smith Date: 03 Aug 18 - 02:48 PM The Folk Prom from the Royal Albert Hall will be on BBC Radio 3 and on BBC TV 4 tonight. In a press release (totally free from any controversial content!), it says:- In a Prom that celebrates the history and evolution of the folk music scene in Britain and Ireland, the BBC Concert Orchestra collaborates with some of the folk world’s leading musicians who are pushing the boundaries of traditional music, and bringing with them a new breed of folk fan. The performers listed are Julie Fowlis-singer, Jarlath Henderson-singer, Sam Lee-singer. Alaw-Welsh folk group, The Unthanks-English folk group, BBC Concert Orchestra Stephen Bell-conductor You are cordially invited to add your comments after the broadcast. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Stanron Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:07 PM It has just started, I'm watching. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST, Jos Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:07 PM Thanks for the reminder. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Guest Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:11 PM The opening sounded a bit like film music to me. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Senoufou Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:12 PM I'm watching it too. At the moment it's an opening medley of well-known folk songs from all over UK. A sort of 'Name That Tune'! The Scottish lady announcer is just giving us a list of what's in store. Sounds excellent! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,ripov Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:13 PM |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:15 PM The BBC Radio 3 broadcast started at 7.30pm. But you can listen from the beginning on iplayer radio. The TV broadcast started - from the beginning - on BBC4 at 8.00pm. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,ripov Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:15 PM I have an image of the dining rooms of the nations finest echoing to strains of "the hairs on her diddy-dide...." oh shit the wife's here!. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Peter Date: 03 Aug 18 - 03:26 PM That is my reaction to The Ash Grove too. I had forgotten about it until the TV automatically changed channels. I was getting dinner ready at that point and thought that it was a film starting until I looked at the screen |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 04:23 PM I sat down with my dinner [leftover pizza slices from last night, and fresh cooked bacon in pitta bread - I'm stuffed..] at 9.00 and switched it on.. Just as some pregnant looking clog dancers left the stage... What's on now sounds like a typical orchestral score from a Hollywood sword and sorcery movie, set in some distant past time in some non specific magical celtic land... ..ooh look dragons, and and a yank actor trying to sound Scotirish...!!! I actually set record timer for this a few days ago, so as it's BBC the recording is bound to end a few minutes before the program does... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 04:26 PM oh yeah... and what's wrong with this audience, clapping in such an irritating distracting display of pavlov dog like appreciation at the end of every few bars of diddly diddly solos...??? ..bloody middle class classical folkies... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Senoufou Date: 03 Aug 18 - 04:43 PM I switched it off I'm afraid. Too commercialised, sickly/sugary and bland. Not authentic. Folk-lite! (less fat, more sugar) Disappointing. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Guest - Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:06 PM "Just as some pregnant looking clog dancers left the stage..." - yes, jiggity, jiggity, ... even at the end. But many of the folk singers were flat at first voices wavering around trying to find the key. All very sugary, smaltzy, commercial and non-controversial. Too much from the Scottish Islands. What about REAL folk ballads - where were they? Ah - still in the dusty archives. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:07 PM Well... chuff me...it actually recorded the end for once.. maybe the recorder was lulled to sleep and won't switch off and stop recording until it wakes up again... oh well.. it's set to next record the Cuban and reggae proms... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:08 PM You can hear it again on BBC iplayer - if you really want to. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:11 PM Whatever is wrong with a performer being pregnant? Or 'pregnant-looking'? So much for folk people celebrating fertility and the natural world then? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:16 PM Why do male folkies strive to look like such knobs when they get all dressed up to appear on BBC telly...??? ...is there a bespoke middle class gentlemen folkie tellytwat costume tailor's shop...??? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:19 PM Oh dear, oh dear! Watched the lot. Trying hard not to use any expletives, the emperor's new clothes comes to mind. The middle classes have taken back their music after leaving it for a few centuries in the hands of the folk! If there are any spin-offs planned for The Hobbit films a good candidate there all ready. Bring back the Shire! Parody would be a generous description. The Irish stuff was great and the Welsh was okay but the rest....embarrassing! Do we really need 3 fat lasses breathy bleating the MacNally show? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:21 PM Some stunning musicianship and singing. I have to say I did not much like some of the orchestral bits, but consider that at least one of these was written by Phil Cunningham, who is just brilliant. I say again, some stunning musicianship and singing. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:21 PM And are there really not enough decent songs among the folksongs in English that we had to have the same song twice (Lovely Molly)? And did the organisers realise they'd done this? Indeed did the 2 singers know they were singing versions of the same song? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:25 PM nothing wrong at all pseudomouse... the more the merrier.. It was a simple convenient hurried comment, until I'd finished eating and realised it must be the Unthanks who I like more than most telly folkies... As I switched on the TV, I only glimpsed the side of their bellies, clogs, and backs of their heads as they were swished off the stage... So eff off and find something else petty to take offence at...!!! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:26 PM Hi Tzu, Have to disagree I'm afraid. I thought the orchestral bits were the best part and I'm a died-in-the-wool folkie of some 50-odd years. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Stanron Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:36 PM I could have done with a lot more of the Irish bloke singing and playing the flute and Irish pipes, without accompaniment. I'm not a fan of invented Welsh trad. The two presenters, worthy in their own right no doubt, but who let the orchestra in there? Big mistake. The Unthanks can do no wrong. You may not like them, I don't always like them, but they are the thinking folkies folk. Until you are sure you can do better keep shtum. Whatever happened to English instrumental music. It exists but you wouldn't think so from this program. Still it's got to be better than just about everything else that was on TV tonight. I'd like to see something like it again but without the orchestra. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:42 PM the thinking folkies folk. Really????? I'd have said more 'brain dead' 'better than just about everything else that was on TV tonight.' Still not saying a lot. Watching paint dry would have been better than everything else. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:42 PM fingers crossed the Cuba and reggae proms will be better.. but seeing as the bland middle class Albert hall crowd will get their interfering mitts on such a naturally joyous music.. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:47 PM I wasn't keen on the orchestra mixes, but like Stanron I really enjoyed the Irish pipes. The first one they did was almost 'bluesy', and nearer to the end they did one with some tricky rhythms. That fiddle player was good. I bet they'd be amazing to dance to (if I were young enough to keep up). |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:52 PM Agreed. I enjoyed the pipes and some of the music but the songs were bloody awful! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Marje Date: 03 Aug 18 - 05:57 PM I found most of it just embarrassing. The orchestrated bits were fussy and overblown, Sam Lee himself across as self-indulgent yet uncomfortable (and what's with the bare feet?), and the Unthanks were out of their depth, they were just dire. I actually turned the sound off at one point, I couldn't bear their half-baked vocals with all that pretentious instrumental fuss going on. Julie Fowlis, by contrast, at least sings with conviction and clarity and knows how to project and breathe, but overall there was nothing there to make me feel proud of our traditional music. And to think I missed Gardeners' World for this! Marje |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 03 Aug 18 - 06:05 PM Close but no cigar. Perhaps Julie should give Sam her shoes! Roger |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 06:19 PM oh dear.. the Cuban Reggae proms is just as shite... An over domineering piano player bashing away total jazz wank bollocks non stop over everything... ..and the orchestra hasn't even kicked in yet... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Aug 18 - 06:45 PM I watched it from soup to nuts. The orchestra was very poor and the conductor was insensitive, drowning out the folk musicians on many occasions. Well, unless the telly sound was badly balanced, who knows (I do have an excellent-quality soundbase), but the Beeb usually gets that about right. As for the folkies, Julie Fowlis was utterly sublime and the Unthanks were very special. Their trumpet player was magical. The rest were dross. The music is everything. I don't want to see grinning people swaggering around playing very simple tunes on accordions (sit down, you tit), bald strummers swaying around affectedly or fiddle-playing blokes doing pelvic thrusts - or some very average bloke singer garrulously strutting around ethnically barefoot. The piper's alleged slow air was awful, thought I must admit that his low whistle was impressive. This was definitely a night with the ladies to the fore, showing how it's done, with the honourable addition of Adrian to that roster, a prize fellow. That's what I think and shut up now coz I'm watching the Cuban job... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: theleveller Date: 03 Aug 18 - 06:58 PM Quite enjoyed it apart from the Unthanks who were shit as usual. Best of all, not a pot-bellied, shaggy-faced shanty-bawler in sight. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,ripov Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:10 PM The orchestra certainly was intrusive, better to have just had the section leaders and let them improvise (it is taught in college!) But the composers/arrangers, never mind the orchestra (who probably only had one run through this unfamiliar to them material before the performance) had worked hard and that deserves some appreciation, even if you (and I) didn't like the result. Regarding intonation, July Fowlis's singing that normally would be unaccompanied, was certainly different in pitch to when she sang with et instruments, but that is as you would expect. The only serious glitch I heard was the piano, when playing bass to the unthanks, which was quite sharp. Of course pianists no longer tune their own instruments, so the poor bloke was buggered (if indeed he could hear the mistuning- pianists get inured to it). Or the the unthanks could have listened and sung in tune with the bass, even if it didn't fit with their modal/just/other-temperament intonation, like orcheatral musicians do. Do you know how dead a fiddle is when playing in tune with a piano? It's great to get to the bits where the piano shuts up. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,ripov Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:11 PM Steve - to my ears the proms have had a piss awful sound crew for several years. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:27 PM Ok.. the folk prom won.. The CubanReggae prom is so dire we switched it off and erased the recording... The blame lies entirely with the egotistical piano tit, who apparently is Australia's 'premier reggae producer' and musical leader for this show... It really made the trite folk prom seem like an epic event in comparison... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:34 PM I've had many a row with guitar/fiddle players over tuning in sessions, ripov, being in the unenviable position as a harmonica player of not being able to retune (like that piano player) on the hoof. I tune all my harps to at least A442 and will not allow anyone else to tune to me. It just has to be that way, no argument. I suppose that what you say about fiddle to piano is of similar sentiment. Anyway, I must confess that I didn't pick up any particular intonation issues in the concert. I was far more stressed out by the over-loud and muddy orchestral sound and the posturings of the blokes in the trio and of Sam Lee. Also, I can't help feeling that a loud and untraditional orchestral rendering of cod- folk tunes at the beginning was just patronising. At least they avoided Danny Boy. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:37 PM Sorry about the cod gap... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Aug 18 - 07:51 PM What I did like about the orchestral bits was every so often they sounded like the swelling theme music to a good old fashioned western movie... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Marje Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:21 AM I agree,much of the orchestral stuff sounded like a film track trying to suggest sweeping celtic landscapes or something. I didn't really notice any intonation problems bewteen singers and instruments, although some of the notes hit by Sam Lee and also the Unthanks were wavery and uncertain. However, if a singer is singing with a piano, you can't expect the pianist to tune to the voices - the singer(s) have to make it work. There is some justifictaion for tiny variations in untempered intervals, but singing flat is not excusable. Then again, there was so much going on that they may not have been able to hear the piano. Marje |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:39 AM In 2013 at the Proms there was a fabulous staged performance of Manuel de Falla's Three-cornered Hat which is still up on YouTube. A great watch if you're feeling miserable. On August 21 1968 there was a cruel coincidence when there was a prom with a Russian orchestra, Russian conductor and Russian soloist, on the same day that Russian tanks had rolled into Prague. The soloist was Rostropovich (Slava) and, of all pieces, he was programmed to play the Czech composer Dvorak's cello concerto. There were furious protests at the Albert Hall before the concert, but Slava gave a memorably angry and tearful performance of the concerto that's gone down in the annals. It's on Youtube too. At the end he waved the score in the air and there was no doubting that his sympathies lay fully with the Czech people. So not all Proms are as forgettable as last night's! Sorry for the diversion... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Vic Smith Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:25 AM Steve Gardham wrote "Hi Tzu, Have to disagree I'm afraid. I thought the orchestral bits were the best part and I'm a died-in-the-wool folkie of some 50-odd years." As someone who went to his first folk club over 60 years ago (not really playing one-upmanship, Steve!) I would have to agree. I was particlarly impressed by the piece that started the second half. A bit of internet checking found that it was part of Iona Elegy by Phil Cunningham & John Ashton Thomas. The best singing - Julie Fowlis The most ridiculous moment - The entire BBC concert orchestra playing stop-time funk chords behind the uillean pipes The thing that I thought I would ever hear - Lovely Molly sung at a slower pace than ever Jeannie Robertson at her slowest could manage. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Bonzo3legs Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:36 AM Thank goodness for BBC Radio Scotland's "Take the Floor" and "Pipeline" on this evening. I cannot listen to Sam Lee under any circumstances, likewise the Unthanks. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Jon Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:43 AM It was on in the living room but I didn't hear anything that really enticed me to settle there so just wandered in and out and only caught bits and pieces. For me, the best bit I heard was Julie Fowlis doing something a little more up beat. I didn't enjoy the orchestration which I felt took the music in other directions such as "Celtic". Overall, I suppose with the snippets I heard, rather than being disappointed I guess it turns out more a sort of standard fare I might have expected - I didn't have high hopes, though maybe some would say that starts me off with a particular listening bias. Oh well, each to their own I suppose and this thread does show some differing opinions... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:48 AM To Vic Hello. I hope you are well. You seem to agree with Steve Gardam in disagreeing with me, and you point out Phil Cunningham as the joint composer of one of the orchestral bits as part of your argument. This is what I had actually said: "I have to say I did not much like some of the orchestral bits, but consider that at least one of these was written by Phil Cunningham, who is just brilliant." The post I wrote with which Steve disagreed did point out Cunningham's role. I did not have to look it up, Julie Fowlis announced it, saying she knew Cunningham well. I caught that reference to Cunningham as we saw Phil Cunningham and Aly Bain play live last year and it was highly enjoyable. So I don't think there is really that much disagreement on the orchestral front. I didn't much like the orchestral piece that opened the whole evening though. :) And for me the aesthetic of the orchestra plus other performers did not always work. But there was one part with 'bongo drums' in the background which I liked. There was a 'fusion' aspect to some of the music which I enjoyed. I did not have a 'purist' head on. I've seen other folk 'proms' eg I think one with Katherine Tickell, so I had some idea what to expect. On other points made: I'm not clear why there should be objection to a concert which deliberately included Scottish and Irish music taking a 'Celtic' turn. It might be argued that a particular song did not have 'Celtic' roots? Some interesting modes/scales/time signatures were used especially in one of the pieces featuring Alaw. For me the sound of the accordion did not come through clearly, even in bits where the camera was focused on his fast moving fingers. I liked them dancing around and cannot see why some posters have to hurl abuse at Jamie Smith for not sitting down. There is quite a lot of linked material on the BBC web site https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bclzmv and you can follow links to interview with some performers eg Jarlath Henderson. Yes, there will be differing opinions and that is only to be expected. But I would be delighted to have the chance to see any of the performers featured in the piece. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:25 AM clicky BBC Proms - 2018, Prom 27: Folk Music around Britain and Ireland - @BBCRadio3 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bclzmv |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:27 AM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ bbc iPlayer Radio app http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3yvdp3zQJWLtl204z9nxgRt/download-the-iplayer-radio-app (then click the '+' on the programme's web page then on the app click Menu > My Radio > Listen Later) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ latest broadcasts (though not some documentary type programmes) https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/categories/music-folk |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:33 AM Sorry Vic, i didn't watch it but have absorbed the general view of this show from the messages. Why didn't people react as I did to the word combination of BBC and Folk & just let them get on with it? It was bound to be crap.... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Vic Smith Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:59 AM To Pseudonymous I was not intending to disagree with you at all. The problem was that I cut too much of Steve's quotation. I was merely agreeing with the part where he wrote:- " I thought the orchestral bits were the best part and I'm a died-in-the-wool folkie of some 50-odd years." To Jim Bainbridge I think that you know what really inspires me in this music - we have talked about it often enough since the 1960s. I think the difference is that I am prepared to at least have a listen to the wider interpretation though I don't like a lot, probably most, of it and there was much I didn't like in the Folk Prom - which I didn't expect to enjoy much anyway. In your condemnation of the BBC, you really need to exclude BBC Alba which we are able to get with our new set. There are frequent and excellent programmes on traditional song and music on that channel. Yours wi' Edinburgh, Musselburgh, Aberdeen haddies.... Vic |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: Dave Hanson Date: 04 Aug 18 - 10:06 AM Why do the BBC insist on backing folksingers with an orchestra, the beauty in folksong is often in it's simplicity which the feckin BBC insist on ruining, folk singers and musicians DON'T NEED AN ORCHESTRA, the BBC still don't get it. For me the thing was awful. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight From: GUEST,henryp Date: 04 Aug 18 - 11:08 AM BBC - Programmes categorised as Folk Music: Now and Next https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/genres/music/folk/schedules iplayer and podcasts too. |
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