Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 11:25 AM

Didn't watch, since this is the kind of thing that is likely to cause intentional damage to my TV screen.

I've had a good snigger at some of your comments, though, particularly the concept of a "bespoke middle class gentlemen folkie tellytwat costume tailor's shop".

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 12:10 PM

I've probably used this before, but... Unthanks? No thanks. hi

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:21 PM

I'm with Brian I wish I had said that ( awaiting Whistler's reply )

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:30 PM

I recorded it specifically for the Unthanks..
it's that grinning tool Sam Lee who needs stern advice from real proletarian folkies...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:45 PM

I can't stand Sam Lee - is he some kind of folk poke-on??

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 01:47 PM

"Why do the BBC insist on backing folksingers with an orchestra, the beauty in folksong is often in it's simplicity which the feckin BBC insist on ruining, folk singers and musicians DON'T NEED AN ORCHESTRA, the BBC still don't get it".
Because it's the feckin' Proms.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,IanA
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 02:00 PM

Grim. Just grim.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 02:01 PM

errrrmmmm... there was no orchestra to be seen or heard in the BBC Cuba reggae Proms...

if only there had been to drown out that overbearing jazz wank piano player...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Stanron
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 02:15 PM

The Unthanks are on Proms Extra right now on BBC2.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:39 PM

Vic- you're a saint listening to all this stuff- I really can't stand about 99pc of what is called folk these days.
Don't have a TV anyway, saw the light years ago-- so maybe Alba might be different-
Maybe it's me....another birthday fast approaching

'It's nee bliddy good getting aad' as the poet Pickford says

ps another dead giveaway for pretentious crap is AWARD-WINNING

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:50 PM

I'm not saying that the BBC is particularly following or changing the ethos of the Proms but here is a bit from Wikipedia
The Proms " ... inaugurated on 10 August 1895 in the Queen's Hall in Langham Place by the impresario Robert Newman, who was fully experienced in running similar concerts at His Majesty's Theatre.
 Newman wished to generate a wider audience for concert hall music by offering low ticket prices and an informal atmosphere, where eating, drinking and smoking were permitted to the promenaders.

He stated his aim to Henry Wood in 1894 as follows:
I am going to run nightly concerts and train the public by easy stages. Popular at first, gradually raising the standard until I have created a public for classical and modern music."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Proms#Origins_and_Sir_Henry_Wood


You could say they dumb down any form of music they promote or you could say they make it more accessible to a new audience.

It's about what I expected.
I've only played about half of it so far but it's clearly not aimed at hardened folkies.
And this is the Concert orchestra. Very "radio2" rather than "radio3" if you know what I mean.

I hope the audience enjoyed it and are inspired to try some more "folk".

I was talking to a non-folky* friend today who had seen bits of it while doing bits around the house ... "There was a singer towards the end[Julie Fowlis] with an amazing voice. I wouldn't mind paying to hear her sing sometime" they said.
So that's an extra twenty quid in someones cash box.
;)* non-folky = (previous conversation) "The trouble with folk is [long pause] everyone is so scruffy. Sorry."

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:34 PM

Thank god i do not have a television, the last time i heard the unthanks i thought they had pleasant voices but in need of improving their diction, surely to be able to understand lyrics is important?

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:56 PM

Someone reading these posts might get the impression that we're a bunch of old farts having a go at the next generation. Bunch of old farts I don't object to, but I am in contact with many young performers and I'm convinced they're doing a brilliant job and support them whenever I can as I'm sure many here do.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:33 PM

The fate of folk music is sealed when you get people like Jim Bainbridge slagging off something innovative when he hasn't even watched it. Says it all, really.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:59 PM

LEVELLER , What was your opinion, tell us how it was innovative

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 06:20 AM

<<>>>

bunch of unreconstructed misogynistic, foul-mouthed, middle-class old farts, more like.

'Three fat lasses'.   'Twat' this, 'twat' that, 'wank' the other.

The great faker Lloyd got fat- but you don't hear 'dyed-in-the-wool folkies' making adverse comments on his weight rather than his performance. Thank heaven the Proms did not embarrass the country with an hour of some Walter Pardon clone singing only those fragments of some obscure Child ballad believed to have been collected directly from some oral tradition; that would have been truly boring.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 06:28 AM

No, leveller, I've just been around a while & have learned through experience that such programmes are not, on my terms, worth watching.

Don't recall criticising young players at all- there are some fine, sympathetic singers & musicians about but over time, they too may learn more about the nature of the music. Also, 'innovation' does not mean improvement & like Dick I'd be interested in what you mean by that- homest experiments or gimmicks?

'Folk' may have a place on glitzy TV shows the concert stage, directed by eejits who think an orchestra improves the 'product' of an unaccompanied singeer, but I don't have to put up with it, nor with 'folk' radio shows working from a commercial playlist....

I just have my own view of what the music is about & won't compromise on that.
          signed Jim Bainbridge on behalf of people like him

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 07:10 AM

No pay fee - no BBC - so me no see - o lucky me.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 08:23 AM

I didn't like it myself but if it prompts just one person to get involved in the mainstream folk scene then it was worth while.

Considering the attitude here, however, anybody who does turn up at a folk club for the first time whill probably be put off by the old farts who think anybody who wasn't an acquaintance of "Bert" or "Ewan" as unworthly of notice.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 09:21 AM

>>>>>>>>>I didn't like it myself but if it prompts just one person to get involved in the mainstream folk scene then it was worth while.<<<<<

Fair comment, anon.


Can't comment on your second statement except to say by what I've read online recently most folk clubs seem to welcome everybody with open arms.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Fat guest
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 10:27 AM

So now we have an anonymous GUEST accusing us of all sorts of nasty things.
I often wonder what it feels like to be so high and mighty passing down judgement on such scanty evidence.
Must be so empowering ?
Here's a suggestion.
If the robustly jocular words twat and wanker so offend your over sensitivities,
Then stop acting like you are either of them in our forum by talking out of your arse.
And we don't care how fat, skinny, or perfectly proportioned it might be.

Now, on the trendy topic of anti fat shaming.
I'm too fat, I welcome anyone friends or foe,
I insist you shame me as much and often as you care
Until I try to regain fitness and good health.
Yes, we really respect anyone so brave as to attack us under cloak of anonymity.
Any of us can wimp out and post contentious views and insults as anonymous GUESTS..
Even some of us regular miscreants can try it for fun and thrills.

Yours anonymously PFR, typing via mobile phone,
Sat on an MDF bog seat, which is creaking and cracking under the weight of his fat arse...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:15 PM

Like it, Fg!

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:40 PM

So what's the difference between being an "anonymous guest", and "punkfolkrocker" or "Fat guest" ?

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:53 PM

Guest, it complicates discussion when there are one or two people with the same handle ...or lack of any.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Fat arsed pfr on the bog again
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:56 PM

GUEST - Consistency as a known quantity and recognisable persona..

That too simple to grasp...???

..and I daresay over the last decade and a half
I've left a big enough trail of clues to my real life boring identity...

If any obsessive anateur sleuths can be arsed tracking me down...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:56 PM

Most people are vain enough to wish their words of wisdom to be attributed to themselves.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:58 PM

I can spot you a mile away PFR....;0)

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:17 PM

blame google spellcheck - or I could take full credit..

but "obsessive anateur sleuths" is a cool [and appropriate] mash up of 'anal' and 'amateur'...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:46 AM

Steve wrote

"Someone reading these posts might get the impression that we're a bunch of old farts having a go at the next generation."

Close: Bunch of misogynistic, foul-mouthed, aggressive and very sad old farts would be closer to the mark, to judge from this thread.

Not a good advert for folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 05:55 AM

Welcome to Mudcat, Guest.

You'll fit in very well.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:06 AM

geust guest , not sure how many of these posters go to folk clubs. any kind of publicity for folk music has to have some beneficial effect

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:16 AM

GUEST,Guest - I've never had any interest in folk clubs, a bit too much like happy clappy sunday school for my liking...

[well at least the one that put me right off in 1979 was...]

but If I ever did force my self to join one,
I'd happily volunteer to vet new members to make sure we didn't let in anyintolerant sanctimonious prudish prunts....

win-win for both of us, I'd reckon...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:33 AM

Well Sandman I'm far from sure I'm typical but I haven't been to a more formal type of folk club in years. I've limited opportunities and my own preferences are firstly towards tune sessions and then towards the less formal, perhaps mixed events and always with some participation element.

So yes, I'd be less interested in being entertained by others but I don't believe that affects my own comments on the Prom.

As for the publicity angle, I'm not sure how much I care any more and I guess I should also say that apart from knowing where my preferences are I can often struggle to work out where I am with folk. But I would even lend out my most expensive instrument short term (an OME tenor banjo that I could not afford to replace) to someone I trusted who was interested in seeing if (say) tenor banjo would be a good choice for them so I'm not against trying to offer bits of help and hope I'm not discouraging to others in anything I might get to. But I perhaps think differently to some others and do reserve the rights to have my own likes and dislikes within the broad world of folk music.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 09:17 AM

Well said, Jon. Similar preferences, but I am heavily involved in spreading the word to real people in all sorts of ways, writing, singing, playing, organising.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 03:48 AM

Is this what Mudcat has become?

Perhaps the old adage that "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all" has never been more germane and might make this forum a more pleasant place to visit once again.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 03:58 AM

Guest Guest, your point is interesting.Opinion and differing opinions are eseential to an interesting forum , if this forum was a mutual admiration society it would be boring, however personal attacks should be dealt with, and perhaps if people remembered that they should not say anything that they are not prepared to say to the persons face.
The problem with internet communication is that there is no body language, and communication or words can be interpreted in many different ways simply because there is no physical presence

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 05:14 AM

GUEST,Guest - you sanctimonious hypocrite...

you definitely will fit in well here when you join and get a name...

[50 50 chance you already are a member posting under cloak of concealment...???]

mudcat fun and games...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Brian Peters
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 07:18 AM

"Someone reading these posts might get the impression that we're a bunch of old farts having a go at the next generation. Bunch of old farts I don't object to, but I am in contact with many young performers and I'm convinced they're doing a brilliant job and support them whenever I can as I'm sure many here do."

Yes indeed. My objection is not to the next generation (many of whom I admire and have worked with, and whose musical approaches vary drastically) but the telly-friendly version of 'folk music' that this kind of thing represents.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:53 AM

punkelfolkrocker . . . . and you're a coward and a bully.

Hardly broadcasting your own identity are you? But you can shout and intimidate from behind your computer keyboard.

What's your real name . . . where do you live?

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Vic Smith
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 11:17 AM

Not the way that I hoped this thread would develop and I am rather saddened by the posts that take an aggressive and insulting stance. I thought that this subject that would raise discussion on a different way of presenting folk music. Personally, I found more to dislike than to enjoy in the Folk Prom approach but I thought that at least it was interesting.
We have people like Jim Bainbridge, Brian Peters, FreddyHeadedy and a couple of others being able to express their varied opinions without the recourse to the sort of insults and barbed comments that are tedious to read compared with straightforward exchanges of views.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 12:02 PM

I've said what I felt like saying about the BBC show,
and what needs to be said to GUEST,Guest...

... in my usual good natured happy piss-taking manner....

GUEST,Guest may be someone I have interacted with over many years,
or a complete newbie here...

If the former, then you know me and my cheerful tongue in cheek style,
so stop your petty squawking...

If the latter, then I/we wont put up with his/her kind of patronising control freak behaviour
- it's not welcome here...

The moral high ground belongs to no one individual here..
and certainly not you...!!!

Join and use a consistent ID - 'GUEST,Guest' has been overused too many times before
and is neither smart or amusing... just simply unimaginative...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Nick
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 01:04 PM

Anyway you've convinced me to listen and watch it. All publicity is good publicity

I'll share my thoughts

I have at least met a few of the people on this thread in person. Which is nice

Because I'm old is it on radio or TV playback - or are they the same these days...?

Help an old man into an argument

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 01:28 PM

Nick - Folk Proms BBC i player


I think it might also be available for a short while at random times on the BBC telly red button...

I'm determined to find time to properly watch all of it from start to finish,
because despite my mirth at the BBC smarmy middle class telly folkies,
I can still find good things to enjoy about this event...

Even the orchestra conductor grimacing like a character out of an Aardman animation...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 01:52 PM

Having read through this thread, I decided to watch it on the iPlayer. Didn't like it at all. Mainly because of the orchestra, which simply wasn't needed and detracted, in my view from the main performers. I also disliked Sam Lee's rather unctuous presentating style.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 04:06 PM

Give over, Nick. You're not that flippin' old!

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 08 Aug 18 - 03:09 AM

I thought it was a shame that they didn't take an orchestral tune, give it the folk treatment, and then pass it back to the orchestra to see what they could then add. One of the glories of folk is how creative and spontaneous it can be. This lacked that aspect of folk.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: Tradsinger
Date: 08 Aug 18 - 09:12 AM

My impression was that there were far too many slow songs. Folk music is not all slow and sultry. Also, I felt that southern English music was under-represented.

Having said that, folk comes in many shapes and sizes and this was one. Not to everyone's taste but I am sure many enjoyed it.

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 08 Aug 18 - 09:31 AM

I'm afraid "folk music" as we knew it and as it has been for hundreds of years, has become obsolete.
The stuff produced these days has no relation to the music of the people, probably because the working class has vanished into the sunset in search of prosperity or celebrity.
The academies churn out bundles of wannabees in search of a commercial sound and the few performers with something to say have become introverted, joyless manikins.
Pop is today's folk music. Close the door when you leave the building.

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 18 - 09:38 AM

There is a niche market for budget priced classical versions of pop/rock music genres CDs,
which are probably bread and butter for jobbing classical musicians...

I've not looked, but I'd presume even punk has been given a classical make over for shopping mall background music...

=============


btw.. I looked at that Albert Hall audience and thought...

How many actually consider themselves folkies...

.. and how many of them would enjoy, or at least politely applaud, my treatment of trad folk
if it ever gets posted on the internet...???

I'd count myself lucky if even a handful of more progressive reviewers didn't hurl abuse at me for my efforts...


...hmmmm.. how much would it cost to hire a lower division Eastern European orchestra for a session...

Subject: RE: Folk Prom on BBC radio & TV tonight
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Aug 18 - 02:15 PM

"How many actually consider themselves folkies... " Probably none or very few. That was the whole point of it.