BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: BobL
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 02:29 AM

"number plate knowledge enables […] social security details"

Unfortunately, when you extrapolate from fact to utter fiction, your argument breaks down, and I personally am left with a feeling of "why should we believe anything else you might say?"

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:43 PM

I don't give a flying shite whether China bans Winnie the Pooh. I'd rather worry about what countries are doing to damage children. Discuss...


Grandad took his little granddaughter for a special treat ride on the puffer train.

The little girl looked out of the window and said "Oh look, grandad, baa lambs!"

"Yes, very nice," said grandad, "but that isn't very grown up, is it? Next time, call them "sheep!"


"Sorry, grandad."

A little while later the little girl said, "Oh look, grandad - moo cows!"

"Yes, very nice, but don't be such a baby - next time just call them 'cows,' OK?"


"Sorry, grandad."

A little while later grandad turned to the little girl and said, "That looks like a very nice book you're reading there. What is it?"


"Winnie the Shit, grandad..."

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 05:05 PM

As to "Disnification". It is a valid subject. I can't speak to 'Disney' W-t-P as I think I got a whiff of Pooh's voice in one of the original films and decided I would not accept it and just ignored 'em. My bit of memory was that Winnie sounded like a wispy old man and it just didn't go with my image of a young stuffed bear. And Tigger was too like a cartoon tiger and not like a cartoon stuffed tiger.

But Disney taketh and Disney giveth. I love the original Dumbo.

I think Disney is not a guarantee of either a perfect capture of the essence of a novel or children's book, but it has had some gifted animators who did (and maybe still do) their best to do so.

As an example, take a look at the original Fantasia. First and foremost, it was an attempt to do something novel and edifying. And advance the art of animation. In fact, it had some elements which were hilariously brilliant (hippo ballerinas, dancing crocodiles), horribly embarassing and, if you catch some of the original work, racist depictions of cavorting centaurs, and effing inspirational, dinosaurs acting out their lives with Stravinsky in the background, Mickey misbehaving with magic.

Disney the man was brilliantly imperfect.

And I do agree about the off-putting adverts for the very recent animation of Peter Rabbit. Peter looks like a wise-ass and on that alone I have no desire to see the picture. Charm has turned to snark. BUT, it isn't a Disney pic. It's marketed by Columbia Pictures and Sony Pictures Animation. I'm sure the producers think they're geniuses and there's already a sequel in the planning stages.

Beatrix wept.

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: olddude
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:54 PM

Winnie that is

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: olddude
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 03:16 PM

I completely understand because he is so sexually attractive

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 11:20 AM

EMBRYONIC TERRORISTS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 09:56 AM

"They might be embryonic terrorists."
Why might they?
It is not yet illegal to speak out against a government or a system
When we live in a society where it is we have made Thatchers quantum leap into fascism.
I woder why you make such a statement and then go on to make one full of common sense which totally contradicts it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Iains
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:22 AM

The argument as to whether all this surveillance is a good thing or a bad is not something the British Public has had discussion on. In 50 years we have gone from essentially no video surveillance to one on every street corner. The public was not offered any choice, it happened.
Coupled with facial recognition, and images constantly being captured, I find it intrusive. ANPR enables journeys to be plotted, and number plate knowledge enables car ownership, license details,social security details, and no doubt medical and bank account details. This is besides grabbing all your internet and phone details along with positional data.
Crime is being used as an excuse, but should push come to shove, it is all about control.
The system comes riddled with flaws,largely legislation free, and a woeful lack of oversight. We seem to have made a quantum leap from the monitoring of suspected criminals to monitoring everyone and no one seems to care.


https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-collect-data-unlawful

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 01:34 AM

"If one is doing nothing illegal or anti-social in nature, why would one be wary of surveillance?"
that is, if you have total confidence in the police, while there are dedicated good police officers ,there are also some who abuse their power. check out Du Plantier murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Iains
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:44 PM

All suspected subversives are monitored and have been for decades. Jolly good job too. They might be embryonic terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 07:58 AM

Jim, I agree. my family were also under surveillance ,my father did 30. days hard labour in prison for left wing activities

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 07:32 AM

If you had been the victim of surveillance as my family was (in a big way) you would think twice about allowing it to be used indiscriminately
When my father returned from Spain in 1930 he was put under surveillance, the result being he could not obtain work and me and my sister were deprived of a father for 15 years
As things stand at present, anybody filmed on an Anti-Israeli demonstration would be registered as antisemitic - on a pro-Palestinian demo they would be linked to Islamic terrorism
Demonstrations of all shapes and forms are regarded as undesirable by the establishment and by the security services, that is why they are monitored closely (where they are allowed) - that is why Thatcher labeled demonstrators in support of the rights of workers in Britain's most important industry, "The Enemy Within"
The people who think like this are those who are freely given access to information captured by security cameras
"If they come for me in the morning they'll come for you in the afternoon" if you let 'em, is a very wise saying
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Iains
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 07:09 AM

Of course video surveillance is only part of the story. GCHG hoovers up electronic traffic, aided by Menwith Hill. Project Phoenix was a very recent upgrade at Menwith Hill enabling US surveillance programmes Prism and Upstream to run with gay abandon and I suspect precious little oversight. In 2012 £48million was spent on generator plant to keep the base running.

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 07:05 AM

Cameras are claimed to dissuade people from committing crimes, the figures show they are not working - especially those on the sharp increase in street crimes
Allowing any establishment to monitor your activities is disturbing, unless you believe establishments themselves are above suspicion - I cant think of any who are
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 06:40 AM

The prisoners I worked with would have been utterly overjoyed if there had been fewer CCTV cameras in action while they went about their nefarious deeds.
From all the Police programmes I watch on TV, it would appear that CCTV is essential in crime prevention and crime solving.

We don't go out at night, but if we did, I'd feel much more secure knowing we were in sight of surveillance teams.
If one is doing nothing illegal or anti-social in nature, why would one be wary of surveillance? It isn't sinister at all, it's protective.

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 06:08 AM

"You of course being a fine one to talk when it comes to facts!"
My "facts" have nothing to do with it - you want to dispute the claims, do so with evidence - so far youu have just ignored it
British towns and cities are satrurated with surveillance equipment - China will have to run fast to catch up with that one
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Iains
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 05:55 AM

"Now if your claims had been backed up by FACTS"
You of course being a fine one to talk when it comes to facts!

Your link is about as relevant as telling me what newspaper you read.
There is ,as yet, no requirement to register surveillance cameras in the UK. Therefore there is no way to accurately establish true numbers. The British Security Industry Authority (BSIA) estimated there are up to 5.9 million closed-circuit television cameras in the country, including 750,000 in “sensitive locations” such as schools, hospitals and care homes.
Another source:
"UK has 1% of world's population but 20% of its CCTV cameras. Experts have called for a halt in the spread of CCTV cameras. Britain is now being watched by a staggering 4.2million - one for every 14 people and a fifth of the cameras in the entire world."

Would you like an argument on angels on a pinhead?

Britain has had security cameras in sensitive locations since the late 70's. Trials with ANPR occurred decades ago. As far back as 2006 the Severn Bridge was targeted by the police, social services and other organisations, in order to fight crime.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/south_east/6906891.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 05:33 AM

Now if your claims had been backed up by FACTS
It's a little like the US making similar arguments for carrying guns of continuing Capital Punishment
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 05:29 AM

China ort anywhere could claim exactly the same as you have Iains
In fact, that was the argument put forward by Big NBrother
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jos
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 05:24 AM

A book without an antagonist?
Wasn't there an incident involving bees - with Pooh s the antagonist?
And who built the heffalump trap? It wasn't intended to hurt poor Pooh, but it certainly wasn't a friendly act.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the later concoctions produced by Disney have antagonists, but I make every effort to avoid anything involving Disney.

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Iains
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:42 AM

"But to claim that Britain and the U.S. monitors the population as much as any other country does - with cameras, among other methods - both reached the situation described in 1984 around 1980, I would guess is to be light on the facts and heavy on the presuppositions."

Yet many sources claim:"London is the most spied-on city in the world. Numerous CCTV cameras have been placed across the city to help reduce the crime rates in the city. Cameras are placed on lampposts, buildings, train stations, and on main roads. According to the estimation by the Big Brother Watch (BBW), there are approximately 51,000 cameras that are run by the police to help watch citizens in the capital. According to a civil rights group called Liberty, on average a Londoner is captured on camera about 300 times daily. According to BBW, 20% of the world’s CCTV cameras are found in Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:26 AM

"The leaders of China, N Korea (and USA, sadly) seem so obsessed with their image and 'dignity' (hah!)
I agree totally - though I could add a few more names to theirs
It's frightening to think that theirs are the hands hovering over the button
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:21 AM

"Sylvie and Bruno" by Lewis Carroll springs to mind as a book without an antagonist. There are lots without a physical antagonist, just "nature" or "the system" or "society". Would you say "Little Women" had an antagonist? Illness, maybe...

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:10 AM

Interesting question BobL. I can't at the moment think of any protagonist in the Noddy books (unless one includes Mr Plod or the goblins)

I find it hard to come to terms with the 'Disneyism' of classic children's literature. The Peter Rabbit film has me grinding my teeth.
But times have changed, and so have today's children. They need a screen in front of them apparently, so a Disney film is more interesting than a book I suppose.

The leaders of China, N Korea (and USA, sadly) seem so obsessed with their image and 'dignity' (hah!) that any parody is met with incredible anger rather than a wry smile and a sense of humour. Gaddafi was the same. When I was passing through Libya, his image was everywhere, presented as a true tent-dwelling bedouin, and any mockery would have been met with instant death.

Subject: RE: BS: Winnie the Pooh banned in China
From: BobL
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:28 AM

At least it's not the real Winnie-the-Pooh who has, through no fault of his own, incurred the wrath of the Chinese establishment - it's Disney's travesty.

Incidentally, am I right in thinking that W-t-P is the only book in children's (or any other) literature with no antagonist?

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:47 PM

Unfortunately modern technology makes the Chinese one party state quite capable of dominating its population at a scale unknown in the west. The enormous capacity of data storage computer sophistication, the continuing development of biorecognition data and AI make this a real threat.

But to claim that Britain and the U.S. monitors the population as much as any other country does - with cameras, among other methods - both reached the situation described in 1984 around 1980, I would guess is to be light on the facts and heavy on the presuppositions.

It's true that it's a real issue. It's not true that it's being addressed the same everywhere. That is a fatuous statement.

For instance, Winnie the Pooh is welcome in the West. We've even got a brand new movie coming out about him (Christopher Robin).

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 07:58 PM

How can you agree with me if you don't understand what I wrote Dick
The ban is about suppressing criticism - it has nothing to do with humour
The Chinese have the largest population on the planet - the idea that the establishment would even try to monitor the people with CCTV is utterly ludicrous.
Britain and the U.S. monitors the population as much as any other country does - with cameras, among other methods - both reached the situation described in 1984 around 1980, I would guess
A few years ago the Irish people were issued with a card enabling them to avail themselves to access State public health and numerous other benefits
The chip on the card carries more data information on its holder than anywhere else on the planet.
I have little doubt that our security services could tell you which hand you use to wipe your arse if you asked them nicely
Do you think that that should be "excused"/
Give us a break - one government is no better than another in these matters
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:46 PM

I agree with you, Jimp, thqt does not Excuse Chinese CCTV SURVEILLANCE, or their lack of a sense of humour

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:28 PM

You didn't respond to my traffic camera poing nor have you to my reasons for the ban and Britain's behaviour
Nor will you

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:28 PM

You didn't respond to my traffic camera poing nor have you to my reasons for the ban and Britain's behaviour
Nor will you

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:53 PM

Jim it is irrelevant how old the news is this is reminscent of 1984 whichever country it is happening in.

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 03:36 PM

"what is more sinister is the attempt to introduce CCTV throught the country"
You mean like all those traffic and security cameras that are a feature of modern British life Dick?

This subject is being somewhat trivialised here - maybe for a good reason
This is old news - the BBC reported it over a year ago when they pointed out that the cartoon ban was an attempt to prevent bloggers from breaking the censorship by using the cartoon characters to humiliating the Chinese leadership
Meanwhile, back at the Little-Britain ranch, the Chinese are close friends with Russia, who are, in turn, close friends of Trump's America, who in their turn are friends with Britain... and so ad infinitum
Britain has been seeking China to increase of orders for British weapons for several years and is now COSYING UP TO THEM in order to increase trade when Brexit begins to seriously affect or economy
I'm sure this applalling behaviour on the part of our Government will outrage Keith and his ilk no end
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 02:58 PM

what is more sinister is the attempt to introduce CCTV throught the country

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 02:14 PM

Only considered offensive by one deeply offensive regime.
Backwoodsman, whatever have I said that you could object to?

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 11:55 AM

I suppose it's like golliwogs. Fun when we were children, and much loved, but offensive now and banned.
Wonder what children's character resembles Trump? I did rather like that inflatable baby.
Perhaps one of the Teletubbies, or Flop from the CBeebies show 'Bing'.
Flop is the same colour as Trump!

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 10:13 AM

Here we go again. Time to leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:26 AM

Not for the Chinese people.

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 09:13 AM

It had passed me by too, Sen! But it's very funny!

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Iains
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:57 AM

My pleasure Senoufou.

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 08:54 AM

Ah, I understand now, thank you Iains.

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Iains
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:06 AM

why Winnie the Pooh is banned in China

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:02 AM

You tell us, O Wise One, tell us, do....

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 05:00 AM

Why are there no demonstrations here about the appalling Chinese leadership, and no demonstrations against the visit of Xi Jinping?

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:59 AM

But - it's not Chinese.

Subject: RE: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:56 AM

But what is it about Winnie the Pooh they object to? It's been a favourite in children's nurseries for decades!

Subject: BS: Winne the Pooh banned
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Aug 18 - 04:23 AM

China is attempting to increase censorship, and introduce 24 hour surveillance with CCTV, also showing a complete lack of sense of humour by banning winnie the pooh.
while western europe is fussing about brexit
China is still controlling Tibet, and is trying to control and censor its own population still further.