Whitby Folk Week 2018

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 07:22 AM

Nick… I think you are dealing with several different issues. I can speak about Sidmouth more than any other festival, but what I say is not an official view.

Generally, if there is an “anti” feeling against fringe events, it is perhaps because the participants may be taking up accommodation, B&Bs etc in the town or community which is hosting the festival, especially if this is in short supply. Also, most festivals have to budget very carefully and are dependent on good will and volunteers (including amongst the organisers) and if organisers see lots of people filling the pubs without purchasing tickets, they may be “disappointed”, irrespective of the enhanced atmosphere being created.

In Sidmouth, all the fringe venues are mentioned in the programme, and as far as I know are all happy to have a collecting tin during sessions for contributions that go towards the festival.

If anything, I notice more anti feeling by fringe participants against festivals (not just Sidmouth) than vice versa – “it’s too big, too expensive, I don’t like the guests, they don’t encourage participation etc etc”. Just read the comments on Mudcat over the years!

In some cases, fringe events have long-standing bookings of venues that deprive the festival from using those venues. That has happened at Sidmouth.

I don’t know how any of this relates to Whitby. Certainly, the fringe events are not linked to the official festival in any way that I can observe.

The other point Nick makes is regarding visitors (listeners and participants) to pubs not buying anything to drink. This seemed to be an issue in Whitby this year with some people bringing their own drinks and food to consume inside the pub! That is just bad manners, and I can’t see that anyone would begrudge the landlords asking them to leave. Not buying food or drink was also an issue at some official events that were scheduled in pubs. In this case, it could be argued that the festival is booking the venue and perhaps paying the landlords for the use of premises, so perhaps there should be no obligation of people to buy anything. And at morning events, participants may not want to drink alcohol, though most pubs these days also serve coffee and tea. The concern by many people to reduce use of plastic bottles means that more people are carrying their own water containers, and perhaps these are preferred to purchasing (plastic) bottles of water in pubs. Perhaps it’s then a small step to filling the “water” bottle with gin and tonic!

Establishing and maintaining good relations between venue owners/managers/landlords etc and the festival organisers is obviously crucial.

Apologies for the length of this post!

Derek

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Howard Jones
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 08:23 AM

I see fringe events (by which I really mean sessions) as entirely complementary to a festival, so much so that I probably won't go to a festival that does not have a good range of them. To be honest, what attracts me to a festival is the overall vibe, to which the fringe events make a very important contribution, rather than the guest list, most of whom I probably won't get around to seeing.

At Sidmouth the sessions at the Bedford, Middle Bar, Radway, Volly and other venues are as much a part of the festival as the formal events. The festival organisers seem to understand this and they are mentioned in the programme. I find Whitby a less enjoyable festival because it takes the opposite view, it ignores the existence of fringe events and doesn't even indicate (as some festivals do) which pubs are likely to welcome music, and importantly which aren't. This turns it into an often fruitless trudge around town trying to find a session.

Most of these events are more or less spontaneous. Sometimes they are organised in advance - one example is the Eurosession at Whitby. There is clearly interest in this from festival-goers, but I understand the festival has declined to include it as an official event. In these circumstances it seems entirely reasonable to me for people to take things into their own hands. Someone organising a paid event for their own profit, simply to take advantage of the audience created by the festival, is a very different matter.

It is very easy at some festivals to spend all your time in fringe events without contributing financially to the festival. I can certainly put my hand up to this, but I try to contribute generously to the collecting tins. I think it is important to remember that none of it would happen without the main festival.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Realist
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 09:11 PM

Regarding the recent posting concerning the fringe I feel that stating that Whitby ignores the fringe is a little harsh.

If pubs wish to be associated with the festival then surely it is up to them to be proactive and not expect the festival to do their job for them!

Pubs change hands so often these days that it must be almost impossible for volunteer organisers who do not live locally to keep up with those not actually hosting official events.

I cannot comment on the Eurosessions and its relationship with the festival but possibly there is fault on both sides.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 03:46 AM

When and where does the post Xmas folk fringe event take place , I would like to come to that.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:08 AM

My point was that far from being a drain on a festival the fringe sessions and similar events make an important contribution to the atmosphere, and for some of us are at least an important a draw as the guest list.

There will always be a few freeloaders, but If collections are made they can contribute financially as well. My observation is that most people attending sessions contribute when the tin goes around (and many of those attending will also be ticket-holders).

There are some festivals which acknowledge this and where a first-time visitor will be directed to suitable venues with a good chance of finding something they enjoy. There are others which don't do this, where the visitor is left to find out for themselves. Regular visitors get to know where to go, but for the first-time or occasional visitor this can waste a lot of time. For this visitor at least, this diminishes the festival experience and may affect my choice of which festivals to attend in future.

I believe the Whitby Eurosessions started simply because a group of people were there for the festival and found that style of music wasn't catered for in the official programme. That's a choice for the festival organisers, of course, but people can't then be blamed for making their own arrangements. Social media make it easier to publicise these things, but it's not really any different from people meeting in the street and agreeing to go to a particular pub for a session.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:27 AM

I can recall Len Knight, the landlord of the Elsinore, bringing in the collecting box he had had in the bar for the whole of folk week.

He waited until we had opened the box and counted the collection.

£2 and some coppers in total mostly in 1 and 2 pence coins and one pound coin that Len had put in himself.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:44 AM

A tad harsh to say that the Xmas sessions are cliquey. The people who do go have been going for years and know each other, but although cliquish could be applied (at a push) it's merely because they take time to "know" a new-comer.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 12:24 PM

Yes I was surprised and a bit concerned to see that comment about the Xmas / New Year crowd. I've been going most years since it started around 30 years ago (with a gap in the middle when my partners son wanted to stay at home at New Year and we didn't want him to be there on his own!). Neither myself or my partner sing but enjoy listening to those who do.

As Raggytash has said most people who go have been going for some time but many people have joined us over the years - after we had the break there were lots of people we hadn't seen there before and had to get to know.

We've decided to give it another break for a while otherwise I would have said to the Guest enquiring about the week that I would have made introductions. There are others hereabouts who might be able to offer the same though not sure how many actively look in on Mudcat

I think plans for this year's sessions are still being made but I understand that the new bar on Skinner Street is being considered as a venue as tragically the landlord of our most recent home died just before Christmas last year. Again others may be able to confirm venue.

It's a great few days featuring a treasure hunt and singarounds so I'd say give it a try - but then I'm biased!

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 01:10 PM

Thought that this post was hilarious:

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:44 AM

A tad harsh to say that the Xmas sessions are cliquey [Really?]. The people who do go have been going for years and know each other, but although cliquish could be applied (at a push) [If what you have said is true there is no "at a push about it" - It is cliquish] it's merely because they take time to "know" a new-comer. [How many years?]

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 02:39 PM

If it was that much of a clique we wouldn't have had new people join us just about every year. Some came again and some didn't.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 03:23 PM

Hi folks, haven't been here for a while.
I see there are still nasty trolls lurking to try stir up bad feeling.

Whitby over the New Year break always welcomes everyone who wishes to join in.
Nothing is organised yet, in part due to recent changes of pub ownership, but when we have some idea what is happening, I am sure a Mudcat thread will be started.

Quack!

---

I tend to delete at least the anonymous posts when they're nasty, Geoff. We don't need that. I could use a one-person banjo/kazoo duet any time, though.... -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 03:35 PM

Thanks Geoff

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 10 Sep 18 - 04:03 AM

The Whitby Guide had reservations about this year's line-up;

Whitby Folk Week 2018 promises to be a bummer year for folk fans going to this prestigious event.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Sep 18 - 04:14 AM

My first guess would be a spilling mistake...

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 06:55 PM

Just thinking of another big festival I go to: over the years the official festival has eventually acknowledged the contribution the festival fringe there makes to the festival by including at least a brief list of fringe events in the official programme. The contribution, apart from the music, is monetary, as official collecting cans are taken to these fringe venues and substantial sums of money forthcoming: of course, pub landlords where sessions take place need to be asked in advance of the festival if they are willing for this to happen. One session in particular usually puts the can round once per hour in a 3-hour session: no compulsion to contribute but works far better than just leaving a can on the bar and hoping people will put money in.
I take the blame for introducing collecting cans to the festival I used to help to organise: we had to get a street collecting licence for collecting at our outdoor stage, and I checked all the session pubs in advance as above - only one refused, saying they already had other charities they collected for.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Mo the caller
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:13 AM

Maybe the festival should pay the pubs or give them some sort of free advertising.
At least add a symbol to the 'know your venues' guide in the middle of the programme to tell us if there is food available.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 10:39 AM

It actually works the other way round in some festivals, especially with the larger pubs, as they sponsor events in the festival financially, may give out big jugs of beer to the musicians' table, free hot food in the evenings (big trays of sausages, chicken wings and chips!) For that they get advertising in the programme and official onstage thanks at events they've sponsored, and, hopefully, a greater footfall.
Sure, the smaller pubs can't afford to do this, but just putting " Musicians Welcome" signs in the window will give some clue as to whether sessions are OK there, and hence bring more folk in.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 10:47 AM

One phenomenon I saw a couple of times at a fringe event recently (Not Whitby BTW) was people going in to an event, in a pub, and not even buying a drink. How mean can you get? Not paying to see the act and not helping the fringe venues does not help the festival in any way I can think of.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:10 PM

One landlord at Whitby did voice his protest at this sort of behaviour via Facebook this year, tho he he did emphasise that it was a minority who did this. I do remember a story from another festival a few years back, where a whole crowd of people were booted out for not buying at the bar/bringing their own food and drink in. My experience at Whitby has been that you never need go hungry as there are always very reasonably priced filled rolls and other tempting goodies to buy!

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: r.padgett
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 03:04 AM

Depends of course if you are at Whitby folk week to listen to singers and musicians or just for the beer (at inflated prices) of course WfW is a time for pubs and clubs to make their profits and I understand that ~ sometimes just getting to the bar is problematic!

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 04:17 AM

Depends of course if you are at Whitby folk week to listen to singers and musicians or just for the beer (at inflated prices)

I don't see how it depends, the two are not mutally exclusive. You can listen and support the venue at the same time. I can assure you that the beer proces at Whitby are the same all year round. I have never seen any pub inflate their prices for any event.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 06:31 PM

With regards to prices I think Ray meant that Whitby prices do tend to be higher than elsewhere in god's own county.
The clubs certainly operate a two tier system of prices for members and others and some pubs have on occasion inflated their prices both at the regatta and folk week (and probably even at goth weekends).

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 02:32 AM

Whitby prices for beer are low compared with Brighton - close to £4 a pint against £6 a pint. And I expect fish and chips will cost more in Brighton too - though it does have a greater variety of restaurants.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 02:37 AM

if you want cheap beer use the plough , sam smiths

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 03:05 AM

Thanks Malcolm

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 03:51 AM

I live about as far from Whitby in God's own county as you can get and the price for a pint in my local is no different to what I was paying in the Black Horse or the Waiting Room last year. I am going again in October so I will check it out again. You know Whitby better than me Malcolm so I guess you must be right about some pubs putting prices up but I can't say I have ever noticed it. If I ever do, it will be my last visit to that pub! Clubs are entirely different and it is quite reasonable for members prices to be lower.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 06:10 AM

Your figures are in error Dave, beer in the Waiting Room is #3.30 beer in the Black Horse #3.70 & #3.80, So my question would be which is closer in price to the pubs in Skipton.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 06:31 AM

The higher in the Narrow boat in Skipton (home of Skipton folk club) and the lower in my village local. I was unconsciously conflating and averaging beer prices!

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 06:33 AM

But I must add that £2.50 a pint at our local brewery tap, Naylors, is difficult to beat :-)

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 06:17 PM

Dave - I agree with you that clubs are different and so they should be.

Strangely though the differential only became applied once Judy & I retired from running the festival!

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 02:22 AM

you did a good job, Malcolm

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:17 AM

We've often joked that the most common thing we've heard said in Whitby pubs is "how much!".

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:59 AM

That's not just Whitby, Ian, it's Yorkshire :-) and the how and much are usually separated by an expletive!

Dave the Lancashire Gnome now living in Yorkshire and now looking for somewhere to hide :-D

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:01 AM

£4.80 for a pint of Brewdog in the Endeavour. Never again! As for bringing one's own food, I can't remember which pub it was, but I saw a sign encouraging punters to bring their fish and chips into their premises,

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:21 AM

That IS the Endeavour too! The sign outside the pub says "Dog friendly. Bring in your own fish and chips" (Visions of dogs carrying in "cairry-oots!) But the only food they do otherwise is a few rolls: different for a pub that's selling full meals.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: r.padgett
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 02:04 AM

The signs are likely to be for times other than Folk week!

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 02:09 AM

if you want cheap beer sam smiths are cheap , but no singing allowed

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:58 AM

no singing- cheap beer? sounds like a good deal to me

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: treewind
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:14 AM

"I saw a sign encouraging punters to bring their fish and chips into their premises"

That would be a pub that's not selling food itself, and is probably close to a fish and chip shop, and (maybe) desperate for business.

I've seen that symbiotic relationship happen before, quite successfully.

But a pub that does sell food would definitely not welcome customers bringing in food purchased elsewhere, and quite understandably.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:39 PM

Well, as I said, Treewind, the Endeavour does only do a few filled rolls and IS close to a fish and chip shop/sit-in fish restaurant! My friend and I did get exemplary service in the take-away section for playing a couple of tunes while we waited!

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Tatts
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 03:18 AM

What dates do the xmas/new year singaround occur, we are away at Halsham Manor over Xmas but would come to Whitby if dates allowed.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 03:25 AM

Still being organised for this year but things usually start kicking off on 28th and end on New Year's Day

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Oct 18 - 09:17 AM

Missed the folk week but visiting Whitby for a couple of days soon. Always enjoy my stays there whether folking or not :-)