Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 01:45 PM

You're being trolled, Will. He's been cashiered from the B.S. Section so he's stirring up shit in the Music section. Pathetic.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 01:46 PM

Aye, he left school at fourteen and worked as a labourer all his days, but he was the wisest man I've ever known.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 01:52 PM

Couldn't agree more PFR(except for the "dubious pariah"bit)...naethin' jubius aboot me!!

You're wasted on BS, mixin' we the likes o' Gilly.....puir sowl! :0(

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 02:12 PM

It appears ever more evident that "Folk Music" is becoming just another niche sector of the music industry, to be exploited until it loses any claim to be a social movement.
A precious jewel bartered for a handful of rice.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,Cj
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 04:19 PM

"Is becoming"?

It became that many, many decades ago.

But like every other genre, it has plenty enough "folk" who do it for the music, still.

When something becomes popular, it gets monetized, simple. And some people, brigands all, love both the music and the money, damn their eyes.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 05:44 PM

"even going to see your (previously) favourite artistes is no guarantee that they will play the sort of music for which they are famed and you loved: once they start forming new bands and doing "contemporary traditional", pushing the boundaries into jazz and rock'n'roll"

Anyone performing music that can be described as jazz or rock'n'roll has got no business at all in trying to con an audience by referring to what they play as being "traditional Scottish music" contemporary or not. I can see Akenaton's point and I believe that Will Fly is sincere in what he says, but the facts would seem to support the view that the "folk club" scene and "folk music" is dying a death in the UK.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:18 PM

The thread title is a perfect oxymoron - or perhaps that is what the question mark is implying?

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 03:02 AM

the facts would seem to support the view that the "folk club" scene and "folk music" is dying a death in the UK

Not in my part of the world (Sussex), where I could be out at a club, a session or a singaround in my area almost every night of the week. Domestic and other arrangements have intervened this week; but for those, after my pub gig on Sunday afternoon, I could have been at a session up the road from me in my village, at a village singaround a few miles away on Monday evening. I'm missing singaround/sessions on Tuesday (tonight) and tomorrow and, if I wanted it, a workshop and folk club evening on Saturday because I'll be away on holiday.

As I said in an earlier post, I know many very talented, local musicians who play at these places, for fun, for love of the music and for the occasion. I don't question the fact that there may be less productive musical areas in the country - and the folk club scene has diminished. The real point I was making was - and is - that these people play music together for the joy it brings them and others. This is my personal experience - come down here and see it for yourself.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 03:59 AM

One of the problems is the shift away from the vocal side to purely instrumental music, This leads to little groups of people who are reasonably proficient playing to/with themselves.
Unlike Ireland, we no longer have a strong dance tradition to back this up.
Public participation was the magic ingredient in the revival and the need to connect socially is there and still very necessary.
Will has a point of sorts, but would be well advised to moderate his language if he wishes to advance it.
If Guest Observer sees my point in this discussion then I know I must be on the right road, as his/her views have my utmost respect on most subjects.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 04:07 AM

Do they play a lot of "Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music" down in Sussex Will? That is after all what this thread is about. From personal experience I know that in the neighbouring county of Hampshire it was rarely performed. The norm there was sixties pop songs and covers of the output of various well known singer/songwriters who were trying their damnedest to write a 'pop' song but failed so they called it "folk". I believe that you have clearly stated in a previous post on another thread that you do not tend to perform "traditional" material.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 05:29 AM

We play and sing a mixture of traditional songs and tunes from a variety of places. I play in a ceilidh band; I have Scottish, Irish and English roots, as it happens, and two other members of the band are Scottish - so what we play is very varied, with lots of good Scottish material. Sussex also has a number of musicians with Swedish connections, so a lot of Swedish tunes have strayed comfortably into the area - and very good they are.

Lewes, of course, was the home of two excellent clubs - one of which ran successfully for many years, but ceased with the retirement of Vic Smith of this parish. The remaining club, run by a team led by Valmai Goodyear and Bryan Creer (The Snail to you) is going strong, with a packed calendar of day workshops and evening performances from performers both national and local.

The Lewes club also has two excellent volumes of tunes from Sussex - "Lewes Favourites" - 285 tunes in all. A quote from the website:

The tunes are now available as two books, price £10 for Volume 1 (180 tunes) and £12 for Volume 2 (105 tunes)illustrated with dance notations from Sussex manuscripts, anecdotes, photographs of the habitats where they flourish and an index of the combinations in which they are often played. Click here for ordering details.   Alternatively, you can obtain them in various computerised forms. Discreet tape recorders are welcome [at the tunes practice sessions] if you don't read music.

Get the picture?

If idiotic, blanket statements about a whole genre of music are made on this forum, and insulting remarks about performers - with no supporting evidence other than opinion - then I reserve the right to call the maker of that statement an idiot.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 05:34 AM

As someone said yesterday in another mudcat discussion "When something becomes popular, it gets monetized".

I can imagine a skilled Neanderthal singer and bone flute player being being enticed to a party in the cave further down the cliff by the promise of a belly full of mammoth steak.

People, including poor people, "making money" out of their skills seems to be a late 20th century (so in the this context "second revival") concern.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: Johnny J
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 06:28 AM

Re the thread title "Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?"

It could have been more specific but they don't give you much space to elaborate in the title section.

However, within my first two or three posts I hoped that I had clarified my intentions sufficiently. The thread wasn't intended to be about the actual music itself whatever we decided the description meant but more the use of language. To me, such a term is certainly misleading, uninformative, and as others have stated, an oxymoron.

With all forms of music, there is some I like and some I don't for various reasons but that's not my main concern here. Obviously, discussions will "drift" but I'm a little saddened that this thread has now just become a slanging match against younger musicians and also between some members.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 06:53 AM

Well Will I guess you just have to go on what people write and take it at face value. By the way this was you writing the following wasn't it:

Will Fly
Date: 20 May 18 - 11:45 AM

I couldn't agree more, Jim - I don't sing traditional "UK" songs because, on the whole, they simply just don't appeal to me. To be honest, I'm far more interested in melody, harmony, rhythm, musical form, technique and similar matters than in words - which is why I favour playing tunes over singing.

Having said that, I'm a great fan of 1930s popular song - sneered at, I'm afraid, by some on this forum as "Tin Pan Alley - from masters such as Kern, Gershwin, Warren, etc. I suppose, at heart, I'm just an old jazzer. Bob Copper once told me that his dad's favourite, non-folk, song was "Brother, Can You Spare A Dime" - so I'm not in bad company. :-)

By way of a casual observation, the above does not quite match up with your last contribution to this thread, where apparently you:

1. "play and sing a mixture of traditional songs and tunes from a variety of places."

2. "play in a ceilidh band;" [Not many old "Jazzers" do that]

3. "have Scottish, Irish and English roots, as it happens," Congratulations Will I would imagine that would make you exactly the same as the vast majority of the population of these islands and means absolutely nothing as does the fact that "two other members of the band are Scottish"

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 07:39 AM

I've spent 50+ years playing and singing a wide variety of music, from folk to jug band music, jazz, rock'n roll, funk/soul and back traditional tunes in a ceilidh band and at sessions and singarounds - sometimes simultaneously.

I'm quite open about what I play and why I play it.Go to my YouTube channel and check out what I do - which includes many, many lessons for beginners and a wide variety of music. Check out my website for the free transcriptions for solo guitar and tenor guitar. It's sometimes invidious having to nail one's colours blatantly to the mast, but there you go.

Your turn.

You asked if we play contemporary traditional Scottish music down in Sussex. Yes, we do, amongst other things, because the background that some of us grew up in, was Scottish. I was brought up in Glasgow. Lots of traditional Scottish melodies of unknown origin, some by known composers such as Scott Skinner, and some modern takes on the style. Would you call Phil Cunningham, Tom Anderson "contemporary"? What about the more modern take on Scottish songs by people like Old Blind Dogs, who I think are excellent.

Anyway, I'm away to France now, for a fortnight of food, sun, sea and - with a bit of luck - some Breton tunes in the company of excellent musicians. You can talk among yourselves.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 08:14 AM

Will is out in the real world playing music and very generously sharing his vast repertoire, expertise and overall musicality with the rest of us and I,for one, am grateful. He's hardly deserving of the arrogant, condescending nitpickery going on here.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 10:16 AM

Excellent post Gillymor
Enjoy yourself in France Will

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 10:47 AM

wot gillymor said

+ 1

(in the absence of a 'like' button)

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 09:29 AM

it is completely pointless attempting to respond to GUEST observer - a tedious troll. Ignoring him seems to work!

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 02:55 PM

Whatever Gallus - surprised at the belated reaction to my 4 posts in a 70 post thread to which you have contributed nothing - by the way how's that search going for Laning's Eskimo's remark. It is also very easy to ignore somebody when you have absolutely no answers to the points raised. Keep mumpin' on Gallus itis highly amusing.

Subject: RE: Contemporary Traditional Scottish Music?
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 07:57 AM

"If it's no' Scottish, it's crap" - Michael Myers character from Saturday Night Live. Just a wee quote to try and lighten things up on this thread. ;-)

The bottom line? Music is music, whether traditional, contemporary or hybrid. It's really each to their own.