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English Civil War Music

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One-eyed Croaker 14 Aug 18 - 12:52 AM
GUEST,Anne Lister sans cookie 15 Aug 18 - 05:29 PM
GUEST 16 Aug 18 - 03:43 AM
David W 16 Aug 18 - 03:45 AM
Raedwulf 18 Aug 18 - 08:45 AM
Stower 20 Aug 18 - 05:39 AM
One-eyed Croaker 29 Aug 18 - 12:06 AM
Dave Hanson 29 Aug 18 - 01:58 AM
GUEST 29 Aug 18 - 03:06 AM
GUEST 29 Aug 18 - 03:21 AM
GUEST 29 Aug 18 - 04:08 AM
GUEST 29 Aug 18 - 04:15 AM
One-eyed Croaker 03 Sep 18 - 01:10 AM
GUEST 03 Sep 18 - 04:12 AM
One-eyed Croaker 08 Nov 18 - 02:45 AM
One-eyed Croaker 08 Nov 18 - 02:54 AM
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Subject: English Civil War Music
From: One-eyed Croaker
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 12:52 AM

Trying to trace lyrics and music for an English Civil War song sung by the Parliamentary Army, called 'The Zealous Soldier' and said to be written in August 1642. Can only find two references. 1) A single verse quoted in 'This Seat of Mars: War and the British Isles 1485-1746' by Charles Carlton. The verse being:
For God and his cause I’ll count it gain
To lose my life. Oh can one happier die
Than to fall in battle to maintain
God’s worship, truth, extirpate Papacy?

2) This quote from 'Organa Britannica: Organs in Great Britain 1660-1860' Vol. 2 by James Boeringer describes an incident in 1642 at Canterbury Cathedral: "one soldier 'began to play the tune of the zealous soldier on the organ or case of whistles, which were never in tune since.'"


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: GUEST,Anne Lister sans cookie
Date: 15 Aug 18 - 05:29 PM

My husband, who spends his working life in 1645, suggests you ask the Skeapings (Ron and Lucy, or is it Rod?). He hasn't heard of it himself.


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 03:43 AM

This is from Julie Spraggon - Puritan Iconoclasm during the English Civil War

It gives no more information than you have but does say the source is a completely different much earlier Carlton book to the one you have

https://ibb.co/fYKiRU


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: David W
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 03:45 AM

This is from Julie Spraggon - Puritan Iconoclasm during the English Civil War

It gives no more information than you have but does say the source is a completely different much earlier Carlton book to the one you have

https://ibb.co/fYKiRU


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: Raedwulf
Date: 18 Aug 18 - 08:45 AM

Your other alternative is to try getting in touch with either / both The Sealed Knot & the English Civil War Society. It's not my period, so I can't help directly, but I presume that both have web-sites, relatively public forums, or at least a contact who would be happy to pass the enquiry around internally.


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: Stower
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 05:39 AM

Since it is a word not often used, I looked up extirpate from your cited verse to find this song on the English Broadside Ballad Archive, having found nothing for Zealous Soldier, and drew a blank. This may simply be because spelling wasn't standardised. It's a very useful site for 17th century broadsides - perhaps a different search might find it. Zealous as a single word search yields 146 results - it may be among them.


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: One-eyed Croaker
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 12:06 AM

Many thanks for these suggestions. I'll follow them up.


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 01:58 AM

Search out for the band 'Strawhead ' at one time all they sang were Wnglish Cicil War songs. Very good too.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 03:06 AM

Here's a link to a PhD thesis which discusses (and references) the ballad:

Rime and reason - The Political World of the English Broadside

Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 03:21 AM

It also references Strawhead!


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 04:08 AM

It seems that a facsimile of the ballad, or a complete transcription, is not available online at the moment. It is part of the Thomason Tracts collection (ref: 669. f. 10(50).) and housed at the British Library's St Pancreas site:

"Much of the material is now fragile and the original pamphlets are restricted from general reading room use. Full digital facsimiles are now available via Early English Books Online (EEBO) which is accessible onsite. A complete set of preservation microfilms also exists (shelfmark Mic.B.58) and reels can be ordered from on-site storage. Microfilms of the broadside materials (shelfmark: 669.f.3-27) are kept on the open shelves in the Rare Books and Music Reading Room. Bound photocopies (shelfmark: Thomason RAX E. + number) can also be ordered from on-site storage. Staff at the Rare Books Reference Enquiries Desk can advise about this"

Maybe the BL would send you a jpeg/photocopy? Alternatively, do you have a friend who lives in London?


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 04:15 AM

Does anyone on here have an ATHENS account and could do the work for all of us?


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: One-eyed Croaker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 01:10 AM

Again many thanks for all your helpful advice. I've had a look at the thesis - well worth reading! - and have now ordered a copy of The Zealous Soldier from the British Library. What a good site is Mudcat!


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:12 AM

One-Eyed Croaker,

please post the words here when you have them.

Thanks


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: One-eyed Croaker
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 02:45 AM

Here is:
The Zealous Soldier
in handwriting at the bottom of the page Aprill:16: London - 1646

For God, and for his cause, ‘Ile count it gaine
To lose my life; o can one happier Die,
Then for to Fall, in Battaile, to maintaine
Gods worship, truth, extirpate Popery:
I fight not, for to venge my selfe, nor yet,
For coine, but Gods true, worship up to set.

Those Mercinary Souldiers that doe Fight
Onely for pay, are most, Degenerate.
Not worthy to enjoy the subjects Right
Not worthy love of God, of Church or State,
Though I Denie not, but They useful are,
Yet should not, with the Good, in honnor share.

The Ancient Heathen, on their Foes would Runne,
Their Naked Brests, would offer, to their swords
Cause for Their Countrey, then should Christians shun,
To Fight for Theirs, and what more joy afford
For Their Religion, curst for aye be Hee,
Beares Such a minde, and his Posterity

Whoo’d bee Dejected, though a while hee beare
Adversitie, who would some three years past
Have though[t], that God, So high, our cause would rear
And with such Nemerous victories have grac’d
His Righteous Cause, when wee then thought to be
A Prey to the Mallicious Enemie.

Who in Their height of Glory, were brought low
And made to Stoope to Those They did despise
And made that Power above them for to know
Which erst They wretched wormes, in monstrous wise
Blasphem’d, swearing God Damne them as They stood
And sure on many was that wish made good

But here me thinks, I heare some say we buy
And purchase our Religion at deer rate;
Thou impious fool, had we lain still perdie,
Thou hadst not been alive the truth to rate,
For thou and we I think had sure been slain,
Had we sate still, as now we wars maintain.

Forbear to utter your Malignant spleene,
And marke the end how God his cause will crown
With glory, how oft have you lately seen
Our Armies have the Foemen overthrown;
Towns each day are surrendred, and we take
Prisoners enough, an Armie strong to make.

God hath on doubt a purpose to bring on
A work both for his glory and our good,
You’l say it hath been the confusion
And cause of shedding many thousands bloud:
‘Twas for our sins that God this war did bring,
But know we may have cause rejoyce and sing.

Some few years since when we behold and see
The fruits of our hard labours and behold,
This Kingdom flourish in tranquility,
And Gods true worship as it ought extold:
Then shall we say o praised be the Lord,
That we attained peace have by the sword.

Sing to the Lord a Psalme of thanks and praise,
And to his holy Temple let us bring
An Heart unspotted, let’s an eccoe raise
With our loud voyces may to Nations ring,
Far distant from us, chaunting loudly thus,
Prais’d be the Lord that hath assisted us.


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Subject: RE: English Civil War Music
From: One-eyed Croaker
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 02:54 AM

Here is a description of the single page on which The Zealous Soldier is printed. At the top is an image of a fully armoured knightly(?)-looking figure. Plumed helmet; large sword brandished above in his left hand; right holding to the fore a shield with the interesting image of what appears to be the hind quarters of three lions – three lions rampant have appeared on the English/Great Brit coat of arms since about 1200. But … on the Zealous Soldier’s shield we don’t get the full three lions, just the tail, hind legs and most of the body but not the forelegs and head. So the English lions have been decapitated in this image, and this some years before Charles I was beheaded in January 1649. There is a decorated border (botanic themes) all around the outer edges of the page. On the left of the page the vertical border seems to be crowned thistles (Scotland?), on the right hand side crowned roses (England?), along the base there seems to be a string of acorns(??), and on the top of the page there is a row of fleur de lis and immediately under them a generic floral strip. The same generic floral strip runs down the middle of the page, separating verses 1 to V on the left from verses VI to X on the right. The image of the soldier does not look at all like a Parliamentary soldier in Cromwell’s New Modelled Army, but rather seems to be an old-fashioned image taken from a printer’s stock of “a military man.”


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