UK Folk Revival 2018

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 09:38 AM

That was a bit harsh Joe, considering that I am under a tight leash these days......but fear not my time will come. :0)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 09:32 AM

My comment above referred to a blank thread from ake which has disappeared :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 09:28 AM

That's the first time I have ever agreed with you ake!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 08:24 AM

"I know this might embarrass you Jim"
Not in the slightest Ake - we can agree and disagree any time

Where are these singers Dave and why are so many people complaining about not finding them
Soe time ago I was told if I wanted to hear sood singing all I had to deo was jump aon a train and go to Lewes

I have no doubt that there are some good singers and some good clubs - but nowhere near enough of them to make any impact on the everlasting problem of getting our music recognised and taken seriously
The newbies seem to be encouraged to "make a name for themselves" - that was never what it was about for us
Sure - we had our 'showcase' clubs - I was proud to be part of one of the best of them, but at the same time we had ourmore democratic clubs and probably most importantly, we had our workshops to bring on our own singing and help newcomers through their first tottering steps

I was archivist for a long-running workshop and have been bequeathed that archive as the worksop ran its course over fifteen years
I have been trying to pass digitised copies of our recordings on to any British Club who will use it for the same purpose we did - to encourage the singing of traditional songs
So far - not a nibble and it looks like our old singers will be giving their all for Irish listeners in the future
A bleedin' shame, as far as I'm concerned - for me and for the English scene

"does not mean they do not exist."
Your insistence is a litle like a story a friend related about discussing fairies with an old musician's wife
He asked her - "Do you believe in the fairies Cissie?"
"Of course I don't" came the reply, "but they're there all right"
Where is this invisible army of yours?
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 08:13 AM

in my opinion ,the most important issue is to move away from passive consumerism, that people should start making their own music, preferably for the ideal of doing it forcreativitys sake if people canmake money without taking the music far from its roots that is ok

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 08:03 AM

They do not attend folk clubs...

Who are you talking about, Observer? There are young performers who may not appear in clubs but that could be for any number of reasons rather than your above list. Not all of them are university graduates either. There are many young people who do appear in folk clubs and I have seen a lot even in my limited experience of clubs. Just because you have not seen any does not mean they do not exist.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 07:57 AM

"The clubs, for all their problems democratised our music - it was a break from being given our music to making it ourselves.
Nothing has ever replaced that with anything remotely succesful
Jim Carroll"
I know this might embarrass you Jim :0)....But WEll said Mr Carroll.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 07:37 AM

"Does it not also require people who can use it and, most important of all, people who want to listen to it?
That is an objective, not a requirement
You can sit in your bath and sing to your rubber duck
The most important audience you will ever have is yourself - please 'im ad you can please anybody
Home is where you practice your skills and make your songs part of yourself
Too many people use an audience to practice on

If there is plenty of traditional singing going on, where is it happening?
You can hear some of those who made it on the media
The open sessions I read up come with the deaded - "no talent required or no restriction on what you sing" logo
The festivals I've been to are usually impersonal, overcrowded (sort-of) organised affairs where you go to watch
I read recently somebody griping at a song-swap venue being taken over by the organisers as an official event

The clubs, for all their problems democratised our music - it was a break from being given our music to making it ourselves.
Nothing has ever replaced that with anything remotely succesful
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 07:36 AM

"Far more folk music happening now then there ever was". Debateable - depends very much on where you live. In any case, quality is more important than quantity.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 07:28 AM

No attitude involved Leveller, merely recalling what I have seen.

They do not attend Folk Clubs as they do not get paid what they are told on their courses to expect to be paid.

They do not attend Folk Clubs because they do not want, and are not prepared to listen to others do or perform.

They play superbly, but with absolutely no contact with their audience, no interest in entertaining.

The graft and grind I am talking about is by LEARNING at the coal face how to entertain, how to win an audience over and how to connect with them. That is where the likes of Hamish Imlach, Danny Kyle, learned their craft. I daresay that Dick Miles and Big Al could confirm that, after all that is what they applied themselves to and did over decades of performing.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 07:13 AM

i'm a semi retired pubsinger, who once had a hit record in Germany. I don't have a horse in this race.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:54 AM

Howard Jones makes my point perfectly in his final line. Far more folk music happening now then there ever was. A decline in the 60’s style folk clubs does not equal a decline in traditional folk music.

Of course looking at the original post from Lizzie Cornish in case you haven’t realised, it was just an attempt to stir up some fertiliser.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:45 AM

Yep!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Howard Jones
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:33 AM

There are plenty of young musicians performing excellent music, they are just not (on the whole) doing it in the folk clubs. They don't want to be part of the turgid and boring folk scene that far too many clubs have turned into, and which are inhabited largely by people old enough to be their parents and grandparents - any more than we did when we were young. They are finding their own opportunities and venues to perform, including festivals, house concerts and the more vibrant folk clubs which still maintain good standards of performance.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:21 AM

You appear to have condemned the entire youth of this country - well those who are interested in folk music anyway. I would far rather spend a night listening to the incredibly talented young people you seem to despise than to a whole evening of entirely traditional music. As for being 'forgettable' I am afraid you could not be more wrong.

Your attitude is one of the reasons most young people wouldn't be seen dead in a trad club such as you seem to think is the only valid venue for folk. Fortunately at the club I was a member of until we moved recently we had a very supportive attitude to young people and a couple of those who attended regularly recently are starting to do very well with getting gigs across the country.

The club also happens to be the longest continuously running folk club in the world and part of that success has been a result of the fact that it has an open mind to the artists it books and the floor singers who perform. Contemporary, traditional, blues, European & American artists have all featured. Long may it prosper

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:08 AM

"They don't appear in folk clubs because folk clubs do not pay them enough. Unlike The Sandman and Big Al, they are not prepared to put in the graft of honing their skills and testing what they have to offer in the grind of travelling round the gamut of folk clubs and their wildly differing audiences. They are the product of university musical degree courses where apart from perfecting their undoubted talents, they are taught marketing and promotion. The "groups/Bands" they form are like mushrooms, constantly changing overnight sensations, once heard instantly forgotten."

What a complete load of rubbish. It's that attitude that actively discourages youngsters from going to folk clubs. It actively discourages me, and I'm no youngster. There are plenty of young amateur musicians who don't want payment, don't want to study it at university - just want to play where they won't be put down for simply being young and wanting to take things in a different direction. My 18-year old daughter is one of them. She was brought up going to gigs and festivals but wouldn't be seen anywhere near a folk club now.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 05:58 AM

Sorry Leveller, traditional folk music has never, ever, had to chase either those willing to play it or sing it. Neither has it ever had to chase an audience. It is not going to die out so no need for the "life support machine". The songs I have heard and the songs I have sung are in many instances hundreds of years old - so they certainly HAVE survived.

The "youngsters" you refer to. Do you see them in folk clubs? Or on Youtube clips? How about festivals? Concerts? Seen lots of their performances in those venues. They don't appear in folk clubs because folk clubs do not pay them enough. Unlike The Sandman and Big Al, they are not prepared to put in the graft of honing their skills and testing what they have to offer in the grind of travelling round the gamut of folk clubs and their wildly differing audiences. They are the product of university musical degree courses where apart from perfecting their undoubted talents, they are taught marketing and promotion. The "groups/Bands" they form are like mushrooms, constantly changing overnight sensations, once heard instantly forgotten.

Jim Carroll is right all you do need is a voice and the ability, improved over time, to perform the song, which to my mind is the ability to put the words over in a way that portrays and captures the emotion and meaning of the song. With songs I am not interested in anything that does not tell a story, I am not in the least bit interested in gasped or mumbled, indistinct lyrics, interrupted by over extended periods of instrumental masturbation.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 05:17 AM

i suppose that's one of the besetting sins of mudcatters, Dave.

We pick up and magnify our differences rather than accept that we're all decent civilised people trying to make a decent fist of a society that is fraught with complexity.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 04:59 AM

Yesterday I said There is always room for traditional music but the fact remains that unless you move with the times, you stand still and get overtaken by something better.

A number of people seem to have picked up on the second part of that statement without reference to the first bit. Let me try and put it more clearly. There is always room for traditional music but the fact remains that unless you move with the times, you stand still and get overtaken by something better.

Or, for those who cannot see it even when I do that, how about I pick up on the bit they missed There is always room for traditional music

Now that is out of the way let me say that I was one of the founding organisers of Swinton folk club almost 40 years ago. The club is still going in pretty much the same format although I have now moved out of the area and am no longer involved. Over the years we have have had thousands through the doors and hundreds of acts. We had traditional artists, still do. I sing mainly traditional songs or songs in the traditional style. We have however moved with the times and did not restrict oursleves to only traditional folk. It is still going strong. On artist nights (one a month) you have to be there early to get a seat. I call that pretty successful but accept that it is not everyones cup of tea. There is room for everyone.

Does that make my position clearer?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 04:46 AM

"English folk singing requires only one instrument - the voice"

Does it not also require people who can use it and, most important of all, people who want to listen to it?

Drop in to almost any traddie session, singaround or folk club in the UK and take a look at the average age and physical condition of the people there. If that's what folk music is relying on for survival, better get the life-support machine ready. (Some of us would say a 'do not resuscitate' policy would be kinder.) Fortunately, there are young (and, indeed, not so young) musicians who are taking folk music and adapting it into something that they want to perform and listen to. Thank goodness for them! Whingeing traddies may not like it but, thankfully, there isn't a damn thing they can do about it and there's is, quite literally, a dying voice.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 04:17 AM

Mr Red - I've never been a Billy Bragg fan...

I like and respect the idea of him, but never really clicked with his records.
Though not from want of trying...
I bought some of his CDs in sales over the years...

I don't enjoy being preached at by anyone,
even if they are preaching to the converted...
But I got nothing against positive motivating rallying solidarity and enthusiasm...

Seen him live a few times at free festivals, he can work a crowd well...

Same goes for Attila the Stockbroker...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 04:08 AM

Jim - the long gone era of workers bursting into spontaneous song
to cordinate team tasks, or relieve the drudgery,
really ought to be revived...

Particularly in Telephone call centres and McDonalds...

We can all come up with other suitable modern day gig economy occupations..

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:57 AM

I thought the first "revival" started in the fifties with the Carter family, MacColl, The Clancy Bros etc......Before that it was just Traditional Music since time immemorial.

defining the first is like defining Folk. Child was arguably a datum and C# spearheaded a massive revival and he was certainly a significant revival IMNSHO. But that is my perspective, others will posit Baring-Gould or Frank Kidson no doubt. Certainly there have been peaks and troughs in the fashion of Folk.

And as for the Braggard guy - claiming to be only a messenger as he tells you how to think - he can't even use his own language properly. Opinions they ain't. Let me see - how would you feel if he started telling you who to pray for instead of the religion** he does proselytise. His delivery is like his music - insensitive.

**or would you prefer - belief system?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:50 AM

Al has hit the nail on the head a few posts back.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:29 AM

"So pfr you see yourself as being a man on a mission"

mission impossible... this tape will self-destruct in five seconds...

"19 Aug 18 - 02:52 - As you've pointed out tablets and smart phones are as cheap as chips now".. utter bollocks...

that's a total distortion and misrepresentaion of what I actually typed..

No wonder you had me mystified...

Are you sure you are not Keith...!!!???

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:18 AM

Observer = Keith... just a plausible observation...???

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:17 AM

Jim - Now then, hold on...

when have I ever proselytized that everyone should take up electric guitar,
and play them at every gathering...
..and that all that is good about trad should be replaced and discarded...???

Short answer - Never...!!!

Remember, we are mostly in accord above and below the BS line...
You are one of the remaining mudcatters I hold in high esteem.
We cannot agree about everything, that's healthy and fair enough...
But despite my tongue in cheek winding up of the old miseries,
my personal tastes in Trad are very austerely minimalist.

I enjoy a voice with character that engages with a song,
with sparse unintrusive instrumental drone accompaniment..
ie.. reed instrument/simple strings/such like.. nothing flash or fancy...

But I will never dictate what other folks should do to conform to my own peculiar personal tastes...

Nor refrain from experimenting with folk, recording for my own curiosity and amusement,
employing any kind of instrument/noise generator at my disposal..

..and that also don't mean I won't stop taking the piss out of the bland middle class toss the beeb serves up as 'folk'...

My ideal might be something like Ivor cutler and his harmonium, if he'd been a trad folkie...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:10 AM

Jim Carroll, Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:50 AM.

Thank you Jim, you have put the basis of what I tried to get across perfectly.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:03 AM

pfr - stop it with the insults and the personal attack.

1. the only observing you seem to be doing today is myopically gazing into the interior of your bum...

I have my opinions that I am perfectly entitled to. I have stated what points I wished to make and the rejoinders from both GUEST Joe G and yourself actually supported the points I made. People are perfectly free to "like" whatever music they like. What I object to is the way it has all somehow been lumped together as "folk" because "folk clubs" are, or were, the only place those people could go to play.

2. What is extra hilarious about grumpy stick-in-the-mudcatters
is how their lack of tolerance paints them into inescapable corners of their own making...

You mean corners like the one you have painted yourself into in this discussion?

3. I began to realise the power that name had in weeding out the old miserable sods who were so ready and quck to overreact and stamp down on all that was new, threatening and uncomfortable to them...

I soon got to know who was who here...
..and those who deserved to be taken seriously with respect...

So pfr you see yourself as being a man on a mission - good luck with that, but you will get further if you carry out your mission with less name-calling and insults.

4. To my - "As you've pointed out tablets and smart phones are as cheap as chips now" - you come back with:

well, I might have typed something along those lines, if not those exact words..
But buggered if I an rememeber where or when...

The fact that you can quote it back to me here does seem a bit creepy, as if you have been keeping a scrapbook of clippings in a profile on me, or investigating my past posting history...?????

Nothing creepy about it at all pfr. All YOU need to do is read THIS thread and go back to your post - punkfolkrocker Date: 19 Aug 18 - 02:52 PM.

Going back to your Mudcat name. I did say IF I WERE TO TAKE IT LITERALLY.

The Sandman again has it nailed in his post dated 19 Aug 18 - 07:20 PM

I am close to despair.

"There is always room for traditional music but the fact remains that unless you move with the times, you stand still and get overtaken by something better"

does this mean we have to follow the latest fad or fashion, sorry I am not going to be a dedicated follower of fashion, neither am i convinced that it automatically follows that moving with the times is always an indication of improved quality.

I happen to agree wholeheartedly with him.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:50 AM

None of this latter has te slighters to do with English langage folk song and it underlines everything everything that has gone wrong with the English scene
English folk singing requires only one instrument - the voice - and everybody can afford one of those
Flooding the scene with electric paraphernalia not only changed (in my opinion spoiled) the singing but it excluded everybody who couldn't afford or didn't want to lay out for equipment- it also demanded more space
I saw a gang of eight Irish building workers once come into a pub in Kentish Town, obviously straight from the site, stand in the middle of the bar and sing to each other for an hour - some of the most exquisite traditional singing I have heard, off-the-cuff.

We have a proliferation (some say infestation) of 'Singing Circles' here
A landlord throws the pub open to singers or someone with the space throws open their home - and a night of singing is had by all - there are a dozen (I am told) within half an hour's driving distance of my home
We don't go to them because they tend to have an anything-goes policy and you have to sit through half a dozen songs you don't like to hear one you do
I want to sing and listen to FOLK SONGS

I see no reason why a small group of like-minded people can't operate on the same basis, agree between them on a type of song they all want to hear and operate on the same basis, expanding by word-of-mouth rather than by open invtation.
Maybe the days of the big, organised clubs with guests are a thing of the past - they were great while they lasted (some of them), but time to move on seems to be a general consensus.

Singing in a social rather than forman session was the way the tradition operated - maybe it will work again (with a pinch of organisation and sense of direction thrown in)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 01:34 AM

btw... "As you've pointed out tablets and smart phones are as cheap as chips now"

well, I might have typed something along those lines, if not those exact words..
But buggered if I an rememeber where or when...

The fact that you can quote it back to me here does seem a bit creepy,
as if you have been keeping a scrapbook of clippings in a profile on me,
or investigating my past posting history...?????

Now I'm not vain, but I used to have a mudcat stalker at least once in the past decade and a half...
That was comical... almost flattering...

But enough of that fanciful nonsense, I'm sure you just have a better memory than me...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 08:42 PM

Observer - What is extra hilarious about grumpy stick-in-the-mudcatters
is how their lack of tolerance
paints them into inescapable corners of their own making...

When all is said and done, my personal tastes in trad folk are probably just as fundementalist as 'yours',
perhaps even more so..
Yet I can balance it with a healthy respect for other genres of music...

The 'punk' & 'rocker' in my mudcat ID still triggers some mudcatters into irrational kneejerks
that the outside world is beisieging their inpenetrable acoustic folk safe-room...???
Their paranoia locks them into all sorts of obstinate fearful prejudiced misconceptions
regarding modern popular music culture.

..and to think "punkfolkrocker" was just a disposable piss take name I quickly thought up
for a one off post here 15 years ago...
[I didn't even like it much as an ID...]

Then I began to realise the power that name had in weeding out the old miserable sods
who were so ready and quck to overreact and stamp down on all that was new,
threatening and uncomfortable to them...

I soon got to know who was who here...
..and those who deserved to be taken seriously with respect...

I'll be 60 soon, I wonder what will upset me as much in 5 - 10 years
if I'm still a living breathing mudcatter,
and any young people join with their even fresher startling unsettling ideas
about how they enjoy their 'folk' music...???

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 08:28 PM

I think the thing is....

tradition...the word comes from the Latin....traditio....I hand over.

Joseph Taylor and Sam Larner surely didn't say to themselves, 'I am working in a tradition'. They created with what was handed over to them.

If you can't get your head around the fact that today people are handed over something rather different, you might as well abandon the idea of folk music as a vital form created with the grace of free human beings,

The idea of kids having paraded before them the music of a hundred years ago as offering a means of self expression - well it works for classical music. But it has bugger all to do with the spirit of the guys who created our folk songs.

The essence of folk music is folk, and the technology and society they are situated inside, The men aboard Nelson's ships wrote different styles of songs from people marching to Aldermaston to protest about the bomb,

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 07:20 PM

I am close to despair.
"There is always room for traditional music but the fact remains that unless you move with the times, you stand still and get overtaken by something better"
does this mean we have to follow the latst fad or fashion, sorry I am not going to be a dedicated follower of fashion, neither am i convinced that it automatically follows that moving with the times is always an indication of improved quality.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 06:52 PM

pfr, let me know when and where your next a cappella, solo, acoustic punk-folk-rock PERFORMANCE is going to happen. Don't worry about learning the words - you can just read 'em (As you've pointed out tablets and smart phones are as cheap as chips now).

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 05:12 PM

"There you go pfr - what you have described is exactly what I said. On the path that you and GUEST Joe G seem to want to tread you HAVE TO be able to play to participate."

As I mentioned earlier further up the thread..

The only thing I hinted I might want, is for folks to live and let live....

Observer - dunno what name you used to use, or if we got on..

but the only observing you seem to be doing today is myopically gazing into the interior of your bum...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 04:47 PM

Observer you appear to be suggesting that if you can't sing there is no place for you in a folk club. I can't sing and can only play keyboard badly in the privacy of my own home but I have been involved in supporting folk music much of my life by attending clubs and festivals, helping to run clubs, venues and festivals and promoting music through reviews and writing for several magazines and on line music pages. I'm not having someone say that what I love, in it's myriad and marvellous forms isn't folk. It is and it always will be. In fact much of it will form part of the tradition in years hence

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 04:40 PM

Unfortunately there are many traddies who can't hold a tune, or have any idea of tempo or dynamics thus making for often very tedious nights. There are of course also lots of wonderful singers but they are in the minority in my experience

Nobody is saying clubs shouldn't support traditional folk it's just that it is only one element. Songs being written in the folk idiom today have as much right to be heard and usually more relevance to life today

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 04:38 PM

"what punk-folk/folk-rock material can you perform a cappella? What material can you perform without there being a band behind you? What material can you perform totally acoustically?"

all of it...

a song is a song... you hum it, I'll try to remember the words...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 04:32 PM

it's the 21st Century...

electic guitars and amps, keyboards, microphones, virtual software instruments, etc
have never been cheaper, better quality, and more easily accesible to most ordinary families...

A kid who learns a few chords on an acoustic and still sounds shit,
might actually sound slightly more listenable on an electric...???

There you go pfr - what you have described is exactly what I said. On the path that you and GUEST Joe G seem to want to tread you HAVE TO be able to play to participate.

Taking your forum name literally, what punk-folk/folk-rock material can you perform a cappella? What material can you perform without there being a band behind you? What material can you perform totally acoustically? Now in complete contrast to all of that any old "Traddie" can sing any traditional song a cappella, he/she can do so entirely on their own, and they normally do that acoustically - the same applies to anyone who can hold a tune that walks into a folk club that supports traditional folk.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 03:31 PM

Basically we can all of us quite easily find what we want to listen to,
mostly when and where we want to listen to it,
and in certain situations join in...

So what's the problem...

I'm still experimenting with the Amazon Echo Dot I installed 2 days ago in the bathroom for the mrs..

So I just sat there, said "Alexa shufle my music library"..

..and after Adam and the Ant, Bernard Cribbins, and David Bowie, which I wasn't in the mood for,
she came up with Richie Valens followed By Shirley and Dolly Collins..

Then it's as easy as saying "Alexa stop shuffle, Play Shirley and Dolly Collins Harvest Years CD.."

Now that portative organ and their voices are glorious bathroom mood music..

So again, why do we think we have a problem with any music surviving, let alone just Folk...???

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 03:08 PM

"There is always room for traditional music but the fact remains that unless you move with the times, you stand still and get overtaken by something better."
That's a very subjective statement Dave,
Not only does it wipe out anything older that - (how long exactly/) including jazz, classical, blues.... but it presumes that what you assume to be "better is in fact better
but you presume that new-= "better"
I've listened to and performed folk most of my life - did I "move on" from the Jazz I used to play, or did I decide I cold like both?
Before that I listened to the current pop songs and the old type of Country and Western
You attach yourself to the music you like and if you get fed up with it, you move on
That doesn't mean those who you leave behind have to
Once more I find myself totally in agreement with Observer
If you want to cater for modern tastes open a "music club" - that enables you to listen and play anything that takes your fancy at any particular time
WE're only discussing this because of the disaster caused by trying to please too many people all the time and pleasing no-one
Wonder what would happen if you went to a string quartet or a classical orchestra and suggested what you have to them
Shame on you
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 02:52 PM

Observer - it's the 21st Century...

electic guitars and amps, keyboards, microphones, virtual software instruments, etc
have never been cheaper, better quality, and more easily accesible to most ordinary families...

A kid who learns a few chords on an acoustic and still sounds shit,
might actually sound slighty more listenable on an electric...???

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 02:46 PM

Evangelical ....[select religion] bringing up their children in a house with no Television,
determining and supervising what outside culteral influences, if any,
the children are permitted to be moderately polluted by...

Family entertainment is readings from the....[select religious book],
and singing of that faith's hymns...

[not joking, that's how a religious relative brought up his kids since the 1990s...]

For 'select religion' substitute trad folk...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 02:38 PM

GUEST Joe G asks - are you saying that folk music is the exclusive preserve of people who sing or play an instrument?

Yes, but there again it always has been, exactly as with any other form of music (I'd love to see a Jazz Combo comprising of people who can neither sing or play an instrument). But where you and I happen to be at odds is that with your suggested electrification and orchestration, to participate you MUST be able to both play AND sing to quite a high degree of competency as well as having all the necessary equipment, and if you can't then you are consigned to the listening audience with no hope of participating in what is going on. Your preferred innovations and experimentation also only really works on a stage in rather large venues, which further restricts who does what.

As to the description of your folk club, if people are paying to come through the door, then of course it is the responsibility of those running the club to make sure that those who will be performing are of a suitably high standard (See The Sandman's comments). But there again anyone who is prepared to pay to enter a club that states that it is a "Folk Club" should expect to hear "Folk Music" not some mumbled, mediocre rehash of some 50s or 60s hit.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 01:53 PM

There is always room for traditional music but the fact remains that unless you move with the times, you stand still and get overtaken by something better. If you want to keep traditional music as it was in 1800 then you are fighting a losing battle. And rightly so. Times change, people change, tastes change. In all too short a time, we will not be here. The world belongs to the younger generation and always has. By all means carry on doing your own thing, but don't try to impose it on your children.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 01:22 PM

I well remember that what hooked me into folk music in 1964 (or was it 65?) at the age of 15 or 16 was sitting a few feet away from the Watersons in a tiny folk club not far from Hull while they sang Three-score and Ten. That was a radical new sound in those days (well, it was to me) and I seem to remember many of the traddies hating it, saying that harmonies weren't authentic. At a later date, Mike was kind enough to give me the words and guide me through the singing of that song.

What Joe G says sums up the joys of folk music for me. That variety is its life-blood. What Ake said sums up why I stopped performing in folk venues and singarounds. I just couldn't be arsed with the snide comments from a bunch of barber-dodging, nasty individuals with egos as big as their bellies and minds as small as their talent.

Fortunately, there's still some great young musicians to see live, and Oysterband and The Levellers are a good as ever. Oh, and the wonderful Steve Ashley has a new album out, though sadly he says it will be his last.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Spot
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 12:59 PM

Music for the bog?

'She came in through the bathroom window'

'At Last' by Etta James

'Ring of Fire'

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 12:58 PM

Fragmented Folk Music...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 12:53 PM

That's a trad folk revival for a post thather Britain of alienation and isolation...

When the working classes, community and society, have become mere romanticised nostalgic memories...