BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)

Subject: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 04:39 PM

Mudcatter Little Hawk has gone on the record a number of times,
asking for a film of H. G. Wells' War of the Worlds
that is true to the original novel.

If the BBC is to be believed,
Little Hawk's prayers are being answered as we speak.

The upcoming BBC miniseries (three parts) version of War of the Worlds
already has its own little Wikipedia entry.
What that entry does not spell out,
and it has been announced in numerous press dispatches,
is that the distinguishing feature of the BBC miniseries
will be its adherence to the historical era of Wells' novel;
the story will take place in Edwardian England.

Here's another report: New Statesman, July 2018

It may be the end of this calendar year
by the time the show will air on television.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 06:57 PM

W of the Worlds, I've seen better film on teeth.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 08:26 PM

There is a version out there that tries to present the war of the worlds as if it took place about the time of World War I, maybe in place of World War I. So the footage is made to appear like footage of that War. I think it is titled: The Great Martian War 1913-1917.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 03:29 AM

I was passing the time on our very cramped flight back from Vienna yesterday reading AJP Taylor's description of the run up to WW1 - he would have us believe that it was simply a question of which alliances against which other alliances and all were iching for a scrap, and that Grey was against participation!

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 04:00 AM

He was, and UK was intending to keep out of it until Belgium was invaded.

The original WOTW could make excellent drama. I recall that a martian machine was brought down by artillery hidden in woods and another by ironclads.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 12:29 PM

To be honest, I have not read Wells's novel.
Looking up the online summaries of War of the Worlds as a novel,
it caught my attention that
the book is described as plot-driven with cursory character development.
So much so that the characters who survive the invasion to the end,
do not have names,
although the book tells you how they are related to each other.

Only one character is given a proper name.
Ogilvy is the astronomer/scientist who goes forth with one group
to confront the Martian invaders, and the natives are all slaughtered.

I mention this in regard to the BBC miniseries in production,
because all the characters have names in this adaptation.
And the name Ogilvy has been retained
and a prominent actor cast in the role.

I am wondering if the film, true to the book,
will kill off Ogilvy right away,
or will Ogilvy instead survive long enough to see
what happens to the Martians at the end?

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 02:14 PM

I think they will stick to the script. Rafe Spall and Eleanor Tomlinson are very fine actors, but they do not have the profile, especially the international profile of Robert Carlyle. If he was going to stick around for any length of time then I am sure he would have top billing.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:22 PM

The original story has tremendous atmosphere and drama in it, largely due to the fact that the Martian weapons are *more* advanced than the human weapons of the Victorian era, but not so much more advanced as to make the Martian machines completely invulnerable...and that results in some extraordinary scenes of heroism and self-sacrifice on the part of the less advanced British army and navy that are high points in the story, and tremendously moving. This simply is not possible in the modernized versions of the story, because given how terrible our weapons are now, what with nuclear bombs and jet fighters and missiles, the only way of making the Martian invasion virtually undefeatable is to equip them with invulnerable force fields around their machines....and this effectively means there is no real drama, just a lot of big explosions and destruction. I am delighted that the BBC is setting out to do the story in the original historical era.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 12:16 AM

I read the book at school 40 odd years ago, and have seen the hollywood movie versions...

However, afte a while I forget much about the story and characters...

So I don't appreciate reading spoliers about key events, and characters who get killed off...

Folks who thoughtlessly post such spoilers, show even less consideration
for any mudcatters reading this,
who may not have read the book or seen any movie/TV versions..

not cool...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 12:16 AM

Mod - please can you add "SPOILERS" to the thread title...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 02:06 AM

It is quite possible that my memory has failed me over the 50-odd years aince I read it and it was a book of the time, but I remember it as having a very parochial flavour. The action takes place in southern England but there is no real sense anywhere else in the world exists. When people are trying to escape by sea - to where, exactly? Is conquering England all it takes to conquer the world? Come to that, there is little or no mention of Scotland, Wales, Ireland or even northern England that I recall.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 03:12 AM

I find it bizarre that anyone can consider discussing a book which has been published for over a century, and speculating as to whether a particular TV adaptation will be faithful or not, as posting spoilers.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 04:54 AM

Wells placed the landings in country he was familiar with. Many writers do that and it does not make them "parochial."
When people are trying to escape by sea - to where, exactly?
Across the Channel.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 07:21 AM

Not posting spoilers has rightfully become a genrally accepted net etiquette,
intended to minimise the risk of literally spoiling
a potential audiences enjoyment...

There are acccpted conventions for alerting the presence of spoliers in a forum thread title.

Nothing bizarre at all...

Unless you are one of those mean spirited folks who gets a spiteful kick
deliberately yelling out surprise character deaths and plot twists
loudly and on as many forums as possible...

Or arrogant shits on a power trip who write reviews for mainstream media...
[One of the worst spoilers I ever read was in the Radio Times..]

The age of War of the Worlds is immaterial,
not everyone has previously read or seen it...

..and on this forum, considering the average age and failing memory condition of membership,
many of us would not recall much about it anyway,
and will be coming to the new series with fresh virgin eyes and ears...

This is actuall one of the plus advantages of my mum's dementia..
She can enjoy the same movie several times over a couple of days,
and still not realise she has already seen it..

So in her extreme case, yeah... fair point.. spoilers don't matter...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 07:32 AM

Belt up or else I'll tell you who shot JR.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 08:09 AM

Steve - my mrs is an Agatha Christie fan and saw The Mouse Trap stage production
..and won't even tell me the end,
even though she knows I have no intention of ever seeing it...

She is very pround to be a member of the Mouse Trap cult,
sworn to secrecy.. for eternity...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 09:03 AM

...though.. I could have just saved the wife 8 hours box-setting a high profile big budget mini series crime thriller,
by announcing "the sister did it - it's revealed in the last minute of the series finale.."

..thank you, the arsehole who leaked and spread that on social media...

Luckily, she han't heard this 'breaking news',
and it gave me 8 hours of peace and quiet while she was sat in the front room glued to the telly...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 09:43 AM

We've just had The Archers on as we scoffed our buttery corn on the cob and a Sainsbury's orange wi' a cup o' char. Mrs Steve had already heard this episode but I hadn't. I asked her if Susan Carter was going to Lynda Snell's house to confess to nicking her llama for Harrison's stag night - but she wouldn't bloody tell me. I was forced to listen to the whole episode! I won't say what happened in case there are people here who wait for the Sunday omnibus, the one that is inexplicably led into by a piano accordion (aka hand-held kazoo) version of the theme tune...

There are no spoiler-merchants in OUR house...

Rumpy pumpy pumpy pump, rumpy pumpy pum pum...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 10:14 AM

Heres a spoiler.. after the nuclear apocaplypse has laid waste to humanity
and most all lifeforms on our planet..

..all that will survive will be cockroaches and The bloody Archers...

A game in my house - wherever you are, upstairs or down,
you must run to switch the radio off before the Archers theme ends and the first word is spoken...
Being sat on the bog at that moment is a terrifying prospect...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 01:42 PM

Titanic was ruined for me by some bastard spoiler.
It was unsinkable! Who saw that coming?
And just a few years more recent than WOTW.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 07:03 PM

My first thoughts on reading this discussion centre on the original post:
What that entry does not spell out,
and it has been announced in numerous press dispatches,
is that the distinguishing feature of the BBC miniseries
will be its adherence to the historical era of Wells' novel;
the story will take place in Edwardian England.

Surely the 'original' was set in Victorian England:
“No one would have believed in the last years of the nineteenth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water.”

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Harry Rivers
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 08:44 AM

Cheers Nigel, you've just ruined the beginning for me!

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 02:34 PM

Earlier this year, Variety did a feature article on the upcoming shoot for BBC's War of the Worlds mini-series.

Even without looking at the online comments attached to the webpage,
you can see that the Victorian/Edwardian distinction was broached, or is it blurred, in the interview with director Craig Viveiros, amongst other quotes.

Variety, April 5, 2018.

One comment tells me something I didn't know:
Wells, in the novel, gives 1899 as the year in which the astronomers (Ogilvy?) first observe activity on the surface of the planet Mars; thus the rest of the plot follows on from 1899.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 02:58 PM

That looks quite hopeful.

Someone above objected to the H.G. Wells story being "parochial" in that the Martian invasion just happens in England, ignoring the whole rest of the world. Well! You must realize that in 1899 the British thought they ran the world.....just like the Americans think they do now...it seems to be an Anglo tradition of sorts. Thus any British story at that time would naturally assume that if the Martians were going to conquer the world they would HAVE to invade England to do it! Why even bother going anywhere else until England was conquered? It's so bloody obvious, mate. Why would anyone question such a notion?

It's just the way the Americans think now...and that's why all their movies about fighting alien invasions are set in the USA. :D

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 05:00 PM

Looking at all the previous adaptations of The War of the Worlds, it seems that the one which is most faithful to the book is probably Jeff Wayne's musical adaptation.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 09:29 PM

Yes, that one is very faithful to the book.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 04:11 AM

That's more or less what I meant by saying it was rather parochial, Little Hawk. (It was more a characterisation than an objection.)

Taking the steamer across the channel, yes, but to where? France? So there is the implication that while England has been attacked France will be safe?

Arguably, I suppose you could assume smaller islands would be safer than large land masses for a while...

At least modern interpretations, which are usually bad in many other ways, often have a 'news flash'of some kind saying this is happening everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 05:09 AM

Chaucer's books were a bit parochial too. Shakespeare did set some of his plays in Italy, seeing as he had been there. Wells was writing for a domestic audience, would it even have occurred to him to set part of his book anywhere else?

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 05:11 AM

It may have been happening everywhere. But how would anyone know it wasn't localised? A 'News Flash' is fine, but not in an era when there was no TV or international Radio,

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 06:07 AM

We are making more of this than I intended!

If you have a play called 'Timor of Athens' it is reasonable to assume Greece will feature heavily. If you have a play called 'Two Gentlemen of Verona'you would expect Verona to have some significance. So if it is "The war of the Worlds" it is reasonable the world will stretch a few miles beyond Woking.

I would counter the suggestion that it is reasonable to assume it is local by saying it is more reasonable to assume it is not. And the world did have a fairly good communication system. Telegraph, railways, national papers. And rumour has always spread well.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 06:10 AM

..perhaps these aliens were enthusiastic anglophiles...???

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 06:11 AM

and even if the new series is set in the correct era.. will the beeb resist the temptation to go full on fashioable steam punk...???

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 06:30 AM

It's about one man's experience. The Martians are likely to have landed elsewhere but he didn't get to hear about it as society was collapsing about him and news about other places was by word of mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 06:34 AM

I haven't read it since grammar school.. is it actually a good book...???

Bearing in mind up until I lost enthusiasm for reading fiction,
my favourite authors were Conrad and Rider Haggard...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 06:36 AM

oh.. and Vonnegut back when I was a teenager...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 11:04 AM

Actually, it is quite clear in the story that the landings are confined to only 10 locations in England. First of all, the astronomer, Ogilvie, observes a series of 10 very large explosions happening on the planet Mars over a 10 day period. None after that. Those are the launches of 10 spacecraft by the Martians, and these arrive sometime later...I don't recall how many days later or even if it is said, but they arrive in an orderly sequence, all landing in England.

Why did Wells write the story that way? Well, because he was writing for an English audience, that's why. No more to it than that.

But I do find it amusing how much the English thought the world rotated around England at that time in history (the French no doubt thought the same about France)....and so, of course, if the Martians were intending to conquer the Earth they, with quite limited numbers of their machines deployed, would have to start by taking over the British Isles, obviously. It was, after all, the center of Earthly power at the time, and it would also make an excellent initial base of operations, easily defensible once taken over, and then they could branch out from there to take over the rest of the planet, section by section.

Were the Martians Anglophiles? Most certainly! Who could doubt it? They considered good old Anglo-Saxon blood infinitely preferable to other, lesser varieties of Earthly essence, and this was clearly evidenced by their cunning assault upon the British Isles at the very height of British Imperial power.

And a jolly good time was had by all!

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 11:06 AM

punkfolkrocker: It is a brilliant piece of writing. I highly recommend almost anything by H.G. Wells. You can find it in PDF here:   

War of the Worlds

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 11:39 AM

Actually, it is quite clear in the story that the landings are confined to only 10 locations in England. First of all, the astronomer, Ogilvie, observes a series of 10 very large explosions happening on the planet Mars over a 10 day period. None after that. Those are the launches of 10 spacecraft by the Martians, and these arrive sometime later...I don't recall how many days later or even if it is said, but they arrive in an orderly sequence, all landing in England.

An interesting, if inconclusive, reading.
English astronomers would only observe rockets launched during their time of viewing the skies (English night time). It is quite possible that many more were launched over the ten day period, but the number seen being launched coincided with the number reported as landing in England.
This would also explain why Orson Welles account sees a similar number launched from Mars and landing in USA. :)

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 01:27 PM

But I do find it amusing how much the English thought the world rotated around England at that time in history (the French no doubt thought the same about France)

Between 1815 and 1914, a period referred to as Britain's "imperial century",[3][4] around 10,000,000 square miles (26,000,000 km2) of territory and roughly 400 million people were added to the British Empire.[5] Victory over Napoleonic France left the British without any serious international rival, other than perhaps Russia in central Asia.[6] When Russia tried expanding its influence in the Balkans, the British and French defeated them in the Crimean War (1854–1856), thereby protecting the feeble Ottoman Empire.
Britain's Royal Navy controlled most of the key maritime trade routes and enjoyed unchallenged sea power. Alongside the formal control exerted over its own colonies, Britain's dominant position in world trade meant that it effectively controlled access to many regions, such as Asia and Latin America. British merchants, shippers and bankers had such an overwhelming advantage over everyone else that in addition to its colonies it had an "informal empire".

The martians may well have singled Britain out for destruction first.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 01:44 PM

They wouldn't any more...

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 04:35 PM

When its night in England its also night over almost half the planet. When Mars is visible from England its also visible from almost half the planet. Because Mars is not necessarily in direct opposition to the sun, these halves are not the same exactly. But in principle up to half of all of the rockets launched would be expected to be visible from England.

Except for the English weather. Astronomers know that its very often cloudy in England. Very very often. Which is why the modern day equivalents of Ogilvie put their telescopes in foreign countries. Does anybody who has read the book recently know whether Ogilvie complains about the weather? He would not be much of an astronomer if he did not.

So yes there could be many more rockets. But Ogilvie would be spitting feathers about not being able to see them because it was cloudy.

Wells of course studied biology, but at what is now Imperial College. So he would have been aware of all of this.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 05:03 PM

"Wells of course studied biology, but at what is now Imperial College."

Me too, precisely that! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 05:12 PM

Yes, indeed. I think that he merely simplified the story a bit there, in order to advance the plot, David. What point would be served by having Ogilvie fail to see most of the launches on account of cloudy skies? Suppose he had, due to weather and other factors, failed to see even three quarters of them....would it have made any useful addition to the story or have altered its conclusion in any way? The Earth is a big planet, relatively speaking...although there certainly are bigger ones...but you'd need hundreds of such alien craft landings, maybe thousands, in order to effectively invade all the major powers and nations on Earth.

The French, of course, might have been simultaneously both annoyed and nevertheless rather relieved at not having received the aliens' primary attention...and so too the Germans, the Austrians, the Russians, the Americans, etc...but I do think Wells was wise not to worry about those complications when he wrote his story.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 06:30 PM

From: David Carter (UK) - PM
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 04:35 PM

When its night in England its also night over almost half the planet. When Mars is visible from England its also visible from almost half the planet. Because Mars is not necessarily in direct opposition to the sun, these halves are not the same exactly. But in principle up to half of all of the rockets launched would be expected to be visible from England.

Except for the English weather. Astronomers know that its very often cloudy in England. Very very often. Which is why the modern day equivalents of Ogilvie put their telescopes in foreign countries. Does anybody who has read the book recently know whether Ogilvie complains about the weather? He would not be much of an astronomer if he did not.

Thanks to Little Hawk for providing a link to the text.
It appears that Ogilvy did not see the first launch (Midnight day 1) but viewed the second (midnight day 2) and the third (midnight day 3)
Page 11 of 293 makes clear that Ogilvy saw a launch at midnight, but stopped watching at 1 am (It doesn't say what time he started) so the fact that "Almost half the planet" (at certain times of the year) can view Mars at the same time means nothing if the astronomers are viewing for a very small portion of the hours of darkness.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 11:26 AM

Thanks. I never dreamed of going to bed at 1am if the sky was clear!

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 11:41 AM

I find Wells' description of the Martians and their machines tremendously imaginative and evocative. The interesting thing is, had the Earthlings known the real danger at hand, they could have defeated and destroyed the Martians in the first cylinder at once, as soon as it opened, but instead people were initially just curious and confused, then frightened by the brief glimpse they got of the horrifying occupants of the cylinder, and it took some time to get the military and the government to react in an organized fashion. By the time they did, it was too late. These scenes are described in the book in a very convincing manner. The sense of growing fear and later blind panic is palpable. It's an amazingly effective story, specially considering the time in which it was written.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 02:41 AM

Maybe the Martians have the vote and used it to sign off of the Galactic Common Market. So maybe we can sign up with them singly, thus guaranteeing loads of cheap tourist items suitable for use in low gravity and dim solar activity.

Triffid for your thoughts?

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:18 AM

The Martians took a risk landing in populated areas.
In a remote spot they could have assembled the heat ray weapon before any armed response could arrive. They probably lacked fine control.

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:35 AM

Maybe the martians, for all their technological superiority,
weren't that bright as military strategists...???

Subject: RE: BS: War of the Worlds film by the BBC (2018)
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:58 AM

That's an interesting question, pfr. There is often an assumption in science fiction of all kinds that military strategy is 'transferrable' species to species. But it isnt obvious that is true. A good comparasion to "War of the Worlds" is John Wyndham's "The Kraken Wakes" which is also an invasion of the Earth from Mars (perhaps.) The "military strategy" is quite different.