BS: UK party conferences

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 09:18 AM

"Then demographics, would do the rest."

But people age. And as Lloyd George reputedly said said:

"A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn’t got a head."

and we must remember that Winston Churchill said:
"There are two places only where socialism will work; In Heaven where it is not needed, and in Hell where they already have it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 08:30 AM

you gotta admit...its interesting. even if you don't have a horse in the race.

i think what i like about it is that Corbyn , May etc are really intelligent people. And its interesting what they're going to do and say and respond.

i'm so glad Trump isn't our boss.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 08:06 AM

Steve, a rerun of the referendum or a parliamentary vote to delay things would enable brexit to be kicked a way down the road. Then demographics, would do the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 07:39 AM

what little people.....leprechauns? goblins?

You could on to something Iains....i've been ignoring them for years!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 07:18 AM

The problem is that ,as you state, they are predictions. Many of those predictions are by those that have an agenda to follow. All those little wobbles on the pound caused by brexit scare stories, you can bet someone, somewhere is cleaning up, assuming they had advanced knowledge of the story. Likewise scare stories of industrial relocation, or stalled output. Those little ripples on the stock market all represent winners and losers. I wonder who, if anyone, is policing all this manipulation? For criminals it has made every day Christmas day.
Blundering around in all this is Corbyn. Is he naive, stupid, or extremely cunning? He appears to indicate this one day, that another. Trying to pin the man down is like scooping water with a sieve.
Brexit is not simply a political decision, there are many other big players involved,all busy imposing their soundbites and written articles. There is no neutrality in what we are allowed to see or hear. We Politely call it spin is because everyone is unwilling to call it blatant censorship and crude propaganda.
Big business and politicians sorely miscalculated, we voted for out brother out. The gentle trip into the United Serfs of Europe hit a rock, capsized and then blew up and the debris is still falling. Hence the lack of a unified strategy to deal with the aftermath. Everything is pulling in different directions and the only clear thing that I see is that many MPs are woefully out of step with the wishes of their electorate. Should an election be called someone like Farage or similar could give both parties a severe drubbing.
Ignoring the little people seems to be trait of modern politics, but it is the little people that put bums on seats in Westminster. It behoves the elected to remember they are beholden to the electorate, For many this realisation will come too late

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 06:38 AM

"How can adverse effects of a future event be discussed by a rational person?"
Because rational people put them us as serious predictions
If you are unable to di so what are you doing here - as far as I can see, just throwing stones and running away

"without subsidies which are forbidden under EU regulations"
That is presuming -
a That the decision to leave will be reversed
and
c Corbyn doesn't decide to go the way he appears to be going to go and reform society by making those who have pay and re-introducing nationalisation - he's already promised that for the railways, why not other industries (what's left of them)
The point is that society is repidly crumbling and can no longer cater for the less well-off
Any Party that is prepared to accept that situation is not worth voting for.
The world will either swing to the extreme right or the left to address the situation - the right are already on the move
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 06:11 AM

Interim report from the Labour party conference:
The most prolific phrase used: WE MUST!!

Needless to say the other essential ingredient, HOW?
or HOW MUCH? had no   role in the ensuing spiel.

No Surprises there then!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 05:41 AM

You keep falling for it lads. He must be laughing his socks off!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 05:40 AM

That's a hoot!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 05:12 AM

How can adverse effects of a future event be discussed by a rational person?
Do we use tea leaves, chicken bones, or other methods of divination and augury?
And as stevie blunder would say: There is nothing wrong with my rhetoric. Unlike you, I spent a year in that class.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:58 AM

Meaningless rhetoric Iains
Address the adverse effects of Brexit

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:58 AM

Meaningless rhetoric Iains
Address the adverse effects of Brexit

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:44 AM

"It's always been Labour's lot, a millstone round the party-neck,"

What a wonderfully apt description. Labour has always had a millstone around its neck.
It is the millstone of failed economic policies,that like the Norwegian
millstone of legend, grinds into a maelstrom of chaos and despair.
Each time the valiant Tories ride in like King Arthur and save the deeply oppressed population.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:37 AM

Well I don't understand how Corbyn is going to innovate 400 thousand new jobs without subsidies which are forbidden under EU regulations. Even such small subsidies that we did use to prime the pump of our economy had to stop once we joined the Common Market.

Perhaps he is relying on us leaving the EU. In which case, maybe someone should point that out to his Momentum buddies - he's going to do the dirty on them.

White bearded man speaks with forked tongue. Still that's not unusual with politicians.

Sad to see Dennis Skinner with his head in his hands. I think , maybe like me, he sees Corbyn marching with ten league boots away from consensus politics. A second referendum, could be the equivalent of KInnocks CND defence policy less than a year after the Falklands.

But we have to see....all such fun!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:29 AM

Labour vote for a second referendum - absolutely wonderful
Labour's traditional "heartland" is the workers who set it up in the first place
And who is the most likely to have to carry the can back after this fiasco.... no prizes
Every single aspect of the life of working people in Britain will ve affected adversely by this death-wish policy
Jim Carroll

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH
MORE HORSE TALK
MORE STILL
AND YET MORE

Medicine shortages
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-food-medicine-shortage-doomsday-armageddon-david-davis-a8381076.html
EDUCATION

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:01 AM

Labour betraying its heartlands.
It will end in tears!


http://www.thejournal.ie/labour-conference-2-4254343-Sep2018/

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 03:52 AM

I think you're pretty much spot-on there Steve.

The entire barrage of smears and distortions being directed at Labour in general, and JC in particular, is a carefully orchestrated campaign by the Tory media to turn the heads of feeble-minded, easily-influenced people - precisely the kind who read their rags - away from the real issues, and to convince them that this car-crash of a government, with its incompetence and internal civil war, is their only option in an election. For that reason, I'm pretty sure that, despite the unholy mess they have made of the past eight years, the Tories would get in again.

I think, like you, that another referendum would be a fruitless exercise. If it were to be run on the same basis as the previous one, I'm convinced it would be very close again, with possibly a small majority for Remain (although that's far from being a foregone conclusion) - certainly nothing like the landslide that would be needed in order to even begin to persuade the Brexiteers that they were wrong the first time. And that would cause more Trouble at t'Mill.

So I say, let them as got us up shit creek get us back down it again. It's always been Labour's lot, a millstone round the party-neck, that every time they come to power, they have Tory shit to clean up, and they become unpopular as a result of the stink that carrying out that cleansing causes.

Let the Tories wipe their own filthy arses.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 03:47 AM

A forced general election would trash the present Labour party. Bring it on I say!

A new poll by BMG Research for Huffington Post has found that just 16% of Brits favour remaining in the EU when presented with all the options

Sky News has found that 71% of people think Jeremy Corbyn is not competent to negotiate Brexit, compared to just 22% thinking he is competent. Views of the Labour Party as a whole aren’t much better, with 68% of people thinking the party is not competent, and just 25% thinking it is.

YouGov have found that more people see the Labour Party as racist than the Tories. Despite his repeated claims to be an “anti-racist campaigner”, twice as many Brits think Jeremy Corbyn is racist (20%) than think the same for Theresa May (11%).

The same poll found that 30% of Brits think Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite, compared to just 5% who believe Theresa May to be. Intriguingly, the same number of Brits see Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn as Islamophobic, at 9% each…

and the loony left are still convinced they have the dream ticket!
Or perhaps, judging by some of the hysterics above, reality is slowly intruding into the bubble of myth, fantasy and dream weaving they like to surround themselves with.

Upward and Onward (as they say!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 03:22 AM

The Tories won't stop brexit but Labour could well put a spanner in the works. Risky.

A general election would, in my view, put the Tories back in. I don't think people will vote for change, including for a Labour Party that's split, in times of turnoil. Risky. However, we live in interesting times. But go for the election anyway, say I.

A rerun of the referendum (which is how the brexit brigade would portray it) would, at best, yield a close result for remain, which I don't think would solve anything at all in the long term. Risky!

What I'd like to see and what I've hoped for isn't going to happen, a sudden influx of common sense into our political class that would make everyone see that brexit is going to ruin this country and must be reversed, a huge consensus. Unfortunately, most politicians are more worried watching their backs than acting in the national interest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 03:10 AM

the faithful spout faith to the faithfull.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 02:29 AM

Apples v. Oranges.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 02:19 AM

"Mr. Churchill, the last thing you need is to become PM now. Why should you clear up Mr. Chamberlain's mess. Let him see it through to the bitter end, let that Mr. Hitler take over the country. Then people will see that you were right, and Mr. Chamberlain will be out of power for a generation."

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 02:09 AM

I can bloomin' say no bloomin' more about that bloomin' issue, except to bloomin' say that what I blinkin' said hasn't blinkin' worked as yet. Jim's still blinkin' at it and the flippin' oddie squaddie is still getting his flippin' rocks off on it. And Al, I'm flippin' trying. Your flippin' tactic is to tell it flippin' straight and I'm flippin' with you, but it hasn't blasted worked as blasted yet so I'm just blasted trying something blasted different to get us back on blasted track. Just heard that flamin' buffoon Graham flamin' Stringer sanctiflaminmoniously telling us what a flamin' democrat he is for wanting to "respect" the referendum result. Well I flamin' think that there was nothing democratic about that flamin' referendum to flamin' respect. It was just about the most undemocratic bleedin' process I've ever had the misfortune to witness in our politics. So bugger that!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 08:13 PM

"the alternatives to May are infinitely worse "

Thus You agree Corbyn is a clot.

What on earth are you complaining about then?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 08:00 PM

"Just think how much worse it would be if Corbyn and his clots were in charge."
Rather than your stupidly abusive comments you really need to come to terms with what is happening to British Politics
Brexit is a shambles - the government can no longer rely on support from its own MPs, the alternatives to May are infinitely worse and they don't dare hold a second referendum because that would be the end of the Conservative Party so Britain is faced with (at the very least) an uncertain economic future
You're kippered, good and proper and all you are able to to is hurl stupid, chidiah insults
You fool nobody but yourself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 07:11 PM

I suspect you may be right Backwoodsman, who would want to take on the poisoned chalice of Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 06:20 PM

The absolute LAST thing Labour need is a GE. Why should they clear up the Tories' mess? The Tories got us into this whole Brexit disaster, let them see it through to the bitter end. Then, when the electorate realise what a bunch of bell-ends the Tories are, and how they've completely shafted all but the most wealthy, they will be unelectable for a generation at least.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:49 PM

i really wish you'd stop fighting and talk about the conference.

i think its really fascinating, and the whole situation is in flux and its anyones guess what happens next.

will corbyn promise a second referendum - will may risk another election...

bloody fascinating!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:40 PM

Nah! Don't agree! He's a useless git who we should totally ignore even when he's "trying" to be nice and "trying" to be normal. It will ALWAYS end in tears. He's burned his bridges a thousand times over. Just look at his last week's "contributions." I bloody wish the mods would. He's pure poison, mate. Still...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:22 PM

I seem to recall I suggested such a thing about a year ago.

Since December I have replied directly to one particular poster, very politely, on ONE occasion.

Much as I find Nigel and Iains to be diametrically opposed to me on most subjects they do, occasionally, post something of merit.

Unlike the other one.

If Iains would refrain from his abuse it would help matters a great deal.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:13 PM

Right, twats.

I do not use the words "fuck" or "fucking" ever on this forum. But I am, just for this one post (Jesus forgive me), going to make a glorious exception. A glorious FUCKING exception. So fucking stand by for fucking blasting, you fucking eejits. Are you fucking ready? Right. Here I fucking go:

Do NOT respond in any fucking way, fucking shape, or fucking form, to ANYFUCKINGTHING that those two inveterate fuckers, fucking Keith and fucking Iains, ever fucking post. Do NOT fucking give the fuckers the fucking succour of your fucking attention whatsofuckingever. Just completely fucking ignore the fucking fuckers. Fucking do as I fucking say and these two no-good, fucking demented fuckpigs will get so fucking fed up that they will eventually fuck off. It may fucking take fucking time but it'll be fucking worth it. And Jim, this means you. It means all of us, for fuck's fucking sake, but Jim, it fucking especially means you.

Right. All fuck off back to your fucking 'oles...

I'm just off to confession now. First time in forty fucking years. Is there a clean fucking priest about...?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 03:48 PM

Just think how much worse it would be if Corbyn and his clots were in charge. They do not know if they even have a position on brexit!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 03:31 PM

For crying out lous Iains, if there is one party who have VERY serious divisions it is the Conservative party.

Some opt for remain, some opt for a"soft" Brexit, some favour the "Chequers" proposal, some want a "hard" Brexit, some want a "no deal' Brexit.

That is just the divisions on ONE topic and the most worrying part of of that is they are the party in power.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 03:24 PM

"jeremy-corbyn-changed-the-rules-of-british-politics"

How's That? He is still in opposition and the local council elections in May were hardly a landslide. And the labour conference is hardly a study in peace and light.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 03:00 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/16/a-shock-to-the-system-how-jeremy-corbyn-changed-the-rules-of-british-politics

RULE CHANGER

FURTHER AFIELD

Just think what he would have achieved if had had "personality!!

You are joking, aren't you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 03:00 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/16/a-shock-to-the-system-how-jeremy-corbyn-changed-the-rules-of-british-politics

RULE CHANGER

FURTHER AFIELD

Just think what he would have achieved if had had "personality!!

You are joking, aren't you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 02:56 PM

Personality - really !!
Is that what politics is to you?
Maybe it's time fpr "Westminster's Got Talent"
Personality or not, Corbyn, stll a relative newcomer, has turned British politics round, won masses of support in his own party, increased its mebreship beyond all expectations and forced the Tories to rely on Bribing an iffy party to stay in Government
Give me principles above "personality" any day
NOT PURELY MY VIEW

IRISH VIEW PROBABLY OF NO INTEREST TO SOME

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 02:44 PM

Not purely my view. The summary below of 2 years ago hardly sings his praises.


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-media-isnt-jeremy-corbyns-problem-his-personality-is-a7331021.html

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 01:31 PM

How profound!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 01:27 PM

Well if you lefties had a leader that was little more than a token twat he might take control and help establish and dominate the agenda.
He comes across, to me, as a drone, with a fast approaching winter about to kick his ass out of the hive.

If John Major was caricatured as a grey man, Jeremy of the allotment could only be the invisible man.
He has the personality of a squashed cockroach.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 01:12 PM

"" there has been disturbing reports that those who want to divide our party .. want to use this as a way to do it"
Got there before I did
Of course this is what it's about
Those opposing the Labour Party (well-represented here) would have been up on their chairs screaming "tokenism" had it gone the other way
The last thing they can be accused of it defending the rights of women
THIUS SAYS WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID about how women are regarded in Parliament
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 01:12 PM

Raggytash I really have no interest in the Labour party as you have no doubt gathered. However I do take an interest in the way they are splintering. You may attempt to dismiss it all as spin. I know better.
And as for accusations of naivety, well you can use the term in order to excuse your lack of analysis if you wish, but the reality remains unchanged. As do the accusations of that which must not be mentioned.
According to the Independant it could cost them the next election.
Personally I think many other additional problems would cost them an election.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 12:48 PM

The most telling line in that report was a quote from one of the delegates of the West Wirral branch who initially tabled the motion.

She said " there has been disturbing reports that those who want to divide our party .. want to use this as a way to do it"

So the idea that Corbyn was "outwatted" is somewhat if not totally erroneous.

Are you really THAT naive Iains, really ?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 12:31 PM

How peculiar even the gruniard carries the story. I wonder what tomorrow's headlines will make of it all?
As I first said Corbyn and co outwatted. Live with it!


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/25/labour-unexpectedly-drops-plan-for-female-co-deputy-leader    (5 hours ago)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 11:54 AM

I have for the most part refrained from commenting on this thread but the last post from Iains is just too stupid to be ignored.

Iains do you really not recognise spin when you read it, even as it is in this case "ultra" spin.

I should feel sorry for your naivety ....... for some reason I cannot raise my concern so much.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 11:47 AM

ANOTHER VERY DETAILED JEWISH VIEW THAT WILL BE IGNORED

These are very detailed arguments suggesting specifically wy these accusations are being made - they are all by Jews

That their opinions are being ignored is indicative that this has nothing to do with antisemitism - rather, it is very much a part of the anti-BDS campaign
Fel free to prove that this isn't the case - hearsay claims don't hack it, I'm afraid
Jim Carroll

How about a comment on Torty Antisemitism - or deesn't consorting with anti-semitic politicians count as Antisemitism

https://medium.com/@jrschlosberg/the-tories-links-to-anti-semitism-can-no-longer-be-ignored-by-labour-in-spite-of-the-deafening-8d32173349e0

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 11:30 AM

"There is according to the Labour Jews who have complained about it."
The Labour Party has thousands of Jewish members
Why aren't they complaining
The few that have a vested interest in doing so as the links you have ben given prove

You are choosing which Jews to believe on teh basis of your own prejudices
Why are you totally unable to describe in detail what the "serious problem" is
You are relying totally on the hearsay of the few.

You have been given detailed argument in those links - where is yours?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 11:28 AM

If this gets closed, it's not the people you hate who got it closed.
It's ALL of you who chose to talk about each other rather than the thread subject.

Of course, bobad pointed you all at the usual "antisemitism" crap, so that might do it too.

Possibly some combination. In any case, you'll drop the thread subject in favor of the brawl, and the thread will get closed, and you will all blame whoever it is you hate.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 11:03 AM

Mad as hatters, all three of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 10:53 AM

Until you address those facts specifically there is no proven serious problem of Labour party members attacking of the Jewish people

There is according to the Labour Jews who have complained about it.