BS: UK party conferences

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:38 PM

I am only away a couple of days and it has all happened again! Sorry lads but you have fallen for it again. I am disappointed:-( We all know very well this is just the attention he craves. Just don't give it to him. You know it makes sense :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:26 PM

Some on here have considered that the constant attacks on Corbyn do not have much substance.

A very interesting article can be found at tinyurl.com/y7lo4zp8

Very interesting indeed, but some will say not too surprising.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 02:45 PM

Hope you don't think I was referring to you Iains - I wasn't
I assumed you'd just dissipated like a fart in the fresh air
jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 01:50 PM

"Who might they be?"
Ask nicely and I might t5ell you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 01:15 PM

"Your past fellow extremists have been given the boo0t, now only you is left in the bunker"

Who might they be?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 01:09 PM

Far lefter that I am, I voted Tory for Blair's second term.

But that was primarily because the Tory candidate who had been ousted by Blair's first term was a hard working, constituency minded MP, who rebelled against his party occasionally, whereas the Labour replacement was a do nothing rubber stamp.

These things are more layered than the labels often bandied about would suggest.

(On the other hand, I have just come back from Russia ... maybe I am far left after all)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 12:50 PM

I never voted for Blair or Brown or Kinnock. I voted LibDem every time.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 12:07 PM

PFR,
Keith - still waiting for a recomendation for the centre party you will vote for,

Tricky, and Brexit which is neither Left, Right or Centre is an over-riding issue now anyway.

I can only say what I have done. I voted Labour when it was on the Centre ground, but they moved away.
The Tory leadership now is still much closer to the Centre than the Labour leadership, though much of Labour's PLP remains at the Centre.

If Momentum and Corbyn fall, I will be voting Labour again.
If, as seems likely, the Tory leadership changes and moves further Right I will have a real problem.
Then there is Brexit!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 10:47 AM

There oyou go again Keith
Typos and personal the abuse you constantly complain about
These fellers can waste their time - I'm w#quite satisfied you've just driven another nail in your coffin on this thread
Your past fellow extremists have been given the boo0t, now only you is left in the bunker

"momopolise all discussion."
Bit unfortunate after you tried to take the pisds out of my typo, don'cha think
Pathetic
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 10:44 AM

Raggy - No probs.. I'll always be too leftwing or rightwing for the average nutter zealot...

..who firmly believe themselves to be the only true non extremists...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 07:25 AM

Sorry Punkfolkrocker my error ......... better say sorry to Backwoodsman as well !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 07:19 AM

I'm mainly moderately left of centre,
though further left on some issues,
but even further right than many tories on law 'n' order...

I'd suggest that makes me a reasonably average centrist labour voter...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 07:12 AM

Raggy - it's BWM who was the cuddly liberal... not me..

I've not been liberal since O level Govt & Politics when I was too young to vote...

..apart from betrayed tactical voting for those treacherous liberals who immediately kissed Cameron's ring...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 07:06 AM

Strange, although I sometimes disagree with various posters on here, there is only one who I would classify as an extremist.

Punkfolkrocker has explained at length his voting history, I would describe that as centre, although the Lib-Dems did veer towards the right. However one poster considers him to be extreme left wing.

Having said that some people consider the Daily Mail to be left wing, 13% of people if I recall correctly.

So what we have here is a group of people who are mainly central with leaning slightly either to the left or right of that and ONE extremist.

I leave it to you to guess who it is!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 07:02 AM

Keith - still waiting for a recomendation for the centre party you will vote for,
and presumably would be keen for us to as well...

..and your anti 'tory 'balance' is a lttle on the week side..
Got anything stronger to attack them with...???

Remember, you wanted this thread to demonstrate how balanced you are...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 06:52 AM

monopolise!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 06:51 AM

A rally of one Jim?
I am just putting the middle of the road view, and the only one willing to do that against a whole mob of you Far Left extremists who otherwise totally dominate and momopolise all discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 06:45 AM

As I said - yuo choose what to believe and ignore evertho#ing else anybody has to say which contradict it
You use this forum as your own personal Nuremberg Rally
I've had mu#y fun this morning
Now do what Baccy suggests and do us a favour - we rally aren't qualified to deal with somebody with your problems
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 06:37 AM

Well, it looks like Labour is finally going to accept it as everyone else already has.
Funny how no-one else had any problem over it.

Will it be enough to quell the unrest in the party though?

Momentum are proposing "open selection" at the conference. That will make it possible to remove all those troublesome MPs and complete the takeover.

I hope this thread makes it to the conferences!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 06:05 AM

Steve & Jim - grrrrr..

Take 2:

"Do you think IHRA is " not good enough, flawed, or stupid or wrong, " ?"


General consensus is - you are...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 06:02 AM

General consensus is - you are...



personally I think IHRA is... CENSORED to avoid the usual Keith nonsense...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 06:02 AM

World criticism of IHRA
"Although internationally recognised by many groups, the working definition of antisemitism has been criticised by some as too broad, and conflating anti-Zionism with antisemitism."

Any definition that defends political groups needs to be kicked into touch - it the equivalent of describing criticism of Thatcher as anti-British or that of Hitler 'anti German' - utter nonsense
No definition should seek to defend either nation or party - in including Zionism it breaches that convention

Once again, by definition, the Israelis who describe it antisemitic to criticise Israel, as have many Israeli statesmen, including their Justice Minister, have already breached this new definition and are, according to its stipulated conditions, 'antisemitic'
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Refusing to sign a document which is being abused by The State which claims to represent The Jewish People is not antisemitic, it is in the interests of the Jewish People.
Israel's greatest antisemitic crime to date is to accuse Jews who don't support Government behavior as "self-loathing" non or lesser - Jews
Antisemitism doesn't get any worse than that

You should know all this Keith - you have supported every single atrocity that has been carries out by the various right wing regimes in Israel and you have called Jews like Jewish nurse, Ellen Seigal, who eye-witnessed the Sabra Shatila massacre "liars" - you claim she could not possibly have witnessed what she gave aa signed testimony to having seen
You are an ex#tremist fanatic, which makes your accusations utterly ludicrous    Give it a rest
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 05:59 AM

Labour accepted the "definition" (wrong-headedly in my view, but hey ho, your setup doesn't always have to do everything your way) a long time ago. The argument is over a single "example" which is clearly intended to stem free speech and criticism of the actions of the Israeli regime. There's an excellent letter in today's Guardian sent on behalf of all 13 members of the Joint List, the alliance of Arab parties in the Knesset, which praises Corbyn as a principled man who opposes racism and who aspires for peace and justice, and which rails against the "definition" which includes anti-Zionism as well as antisemitism and which the current bunch of dishonest dissenters are trying to use to unseat Corbyn.

And I put "definition" in quotes not because I'm doing an akenaton but because it is quite simply not a definition of antisemitism in any sense that fair-minded people would accept. And I don't care how many bloody countries or "decent democracies" have adopted it. Principle trumps all such considerations.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 05:29 AM

Do you think IHRA is " not good enough, flawed, or stupid or wrong, " ?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 05:05 AM

basically, listening to other folks and accepting a [pragmatic] compromise...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:33 AM

Giving in and accepting the imposition of something you think is not good enough,
flawed, or just stupid or wrong,
is something politicians are forced to do from time to time ..

..all a normal part of the game of politics and diplomacy...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:24 AM

I never go to the mods.
Of course I challenged your ludicrous claim to be at the centre when all your posted views are Far Left.

Tory turmoil intensifies today as Boris attacks May's Brexit performance.
Labour appears now to be finally ready to accept the IHRA definition tomorrow. (The one you said was defunct years ago Steve.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 04:09 PM

"....who scuttles off, snotty nosed and dummy in hand, to the Mods when things don't go your way."

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 03:44 PM

Keith, I've tried to put my position to you in a clear and concise manner. I'm under no obligation to explain myself to you (or anyone else for that matter) but I've tried very hard to clarify my position in a series of civilised posts.

You, on the other hand, continue to harrass me with your totally unfounded insinuations, and demands that I 'identify with' political figures whom you hold in contempt. You refuse to accept my freely-given explanation of my political affiliations over a 50+ year period, and your insinuation appears to be that I'm lying.

You are a nobody, you have no authority here, and you have no right to demand that I 'name a centre politician that you approve of'.

You are a hooligan, a troll, a thread-wrecker, and a snivelling cry-baby who scuttles off, snotty-nosed and dummy in hand, when things don't go your way. In short, you are a contemptible piece of shit.

Now FUCK OFF.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 03:09 PM

From the DAILY TELEGRAPH'S Top hundred right wing politicians

. FRANK FIELD
Labour MP for Birkenhead
It may be odd to include a Labour MP on a right wingers list, but Field holds great influence over the development of Conservative policy on pensions and social security issues. Attempts have been made to tempt him to defect, so far without effect.

From a constituency member
“He has always got his own way so this is sort of like throwing his toys out the pram because things haven’t been going the way he likes recently,” says the 50-year-old. “There were times in the past where I thought he was actually a Conservative – you just couldn’t tell the difference with some of the stuff he was coming out with about immigration. This is about career politics, not about us locally.”

Personal sdviser to Margaret Thatcher
"Two nights before the Conservative Party leadership election in November 1990, he visited then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher at 10 Downing Street. He advised her that her time as Prime Minister was drawing to a close and that she should back John Major to take over the role. His reason for doing so was that he felt that her Conservative colleagues would not tell her straight that she could not win a leadership contest. Following this meeting, he was smuggled out of Downing Street's back door. Two days later Margaret Thatcher supported John Major for the post, and Major went on to become Prime Minister.[12]"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 02:45 PM

BWM,
Frank Field has been elected as Labour MP for Birkenhead for 40 years and has been in the party longer than Corbyn.
He is left Wing, though not Far Left.
Like the Labour Blairites he is Centre Left, just as you claim to be.

Whatever your history you now show nothing but contempt for such politicians, and support the Far Left.

Name a Centre politician you approve of.
Name one you think too far Left.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 01:55 PM

"As I said, vote for the Centre, not extremists of the Left or Right.
Which Centre ground politicians do you identify with BWM?"

And as I said, for virtually the whole of my adult life I have voted for Liberal/Lib-Dem candidates - candidates for the party of the middle ground. I have never voted for any 'extremists', nor could I have if I'd wanted to, because there has never been an 'extremist' candidate of either stamp standing in my local constituency - not in parliamentary elections, nor in local elections.

For the same reasons, it is immaterial 'which centre-ground politicians' I may or may not 'identify with' - i, like you and every other voter in the UK, can only vote for a candidate standing in the local constituency/LA Ward in which I reside.

You do understand how the UK Electoral System works, don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 01:41 PM

Frank Field is not a centre ground politician, he parrots the racism of the far right on immigration and brexit. Do not call Frank Field a Blairite. Frank Field is no Tony Blair, and even though Blair was wrong on the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, he did a lot of good domestically. Frank Field is not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 01:38 PM

Too bad Chongo Chimp is not a resident of England. Just think what illuminating and incisive comments he could add to this fascinating discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 12:27 PM

Fair point Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 12:23 PM

Keith - so suggest a centre party existing right now you and we can vote for
in a potentially very soon snap election...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 12:22 PM

Chill, Jim. He demonstrates
Nop Baccy
Every ti#me the word "exremist" appeaes in his postings I will help him out by giving an exaample of the term
As I said, enough is enough
He's
not discussiong - he's attention seekinbg
I'd rather put my pennies in an Oxfam box if I wnt to help the needy
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 12:12 PM

As promised Keith
Plenty more where this came From
Jim Carroll


Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 07:10 AM
Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency" but only because of the testimony of all those knowledgeable people, and always acknowledging that only a tiny minority succumb.
Do you dismiss all that just because it does not fit your preconceptions, or do you have some powerful evidence to the contrary that you have not shared with us?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 11:59 AM

As I said, vote for the Centre, not extremists of the Left or Right.
Which Centre ground politicians do you identify with BWM?
Frank Field?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 11:52 AM

Chill, Jim. He demonstrates, ever more clearly with every post he inflicts on this forum, that he is a troll, a nasty piece of work, and a fuckwit. Let him run his mouth off - his vile obnoxiousness is here in black and white for all to see.

The best way to deal with him is to treat him with the contempt he deserves and ignore him.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 11:24 AM

Keith
If you ever refer to any of these people here as an extremist again I will dredge up ebvery on#bscent#r extremist statement you have ever made - as far back as you care to go - you'd better believe that
You are the only extremist here - you are responding to nothing people are saying, you are simply using this site as an extremist soapbox
Enough really is enough
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 11:22 AM

It's true BWM, just as some peoples posting indicates that they are two goose steps to the right of Hilter.

Name just one, with just one example of a post.

Keith - so I think it's only fair and about time you took this oportunity
to suggest your best choice
who we should vote for from now on...???

Always the centre ground. Hopefully Labour will return to it and start winning again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 11:09 AM

who we should vote for from now on...???"
Do you think you should be asking someone who believes all Musilims are implanted to rape children ?
To you really want Tommy Robinson (or worse) as Prime Minister?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 09:06 AM

Keith - so I think it's only fair and about time you took this oportunity
to suggest your best choice
who we should vote for from now on...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 09:01 AM

It's true BWM, just as some peoples posting indicates that they are two goose steps to the right of Hilter.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 08:56 AM

BWM,
Please explain how you reconcile this - the voting record of a lifelong supporter of the middle-ground Liberal/Lib-Dem Party - with your warped accusation that I'm a Far-Left supporter.

I would not try, but your support for Far Left Corbynites and vilification of Centre Left Blairites identifies you as of the Far Left.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 08:52 AM

i wonder if the impending brexit can offer us good news and good governance that will help us reverse our decline?

I think so. See Brexit thread. One is enough!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 06:06 AM

EU or not....

I seriously suspect Brit industry owners would have shifted prodution to the Far east whatever.
They wouldn't have given a shit about loss to UK jobs and communities...

In 1990 there was surprise that some big brand names were manufacturing in China.
Now it is the established norm...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 05:54 AM

Well I suppose the good news will be the end of bad news regularly supplied by membership of the EU.

The end of the EU telling us that we cannot 'unfairly' support our own industries.

Got it?

No I don't suppose you will. But as many of us watched British manufacturing being decimated over the last forty years because of our membership of the EU, and paying for the privilege, there has been a build up of steam coming out of our ears.

Little Englanders. Well yes its a lot smaller economy thanks to those bastards.

That's the good news we're looking forward to.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 05:44 AM

Aaaahh, sorry! :-)