BS: UK party conferences

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 07:18 AM

The problem is that ,as you state, they are predictions. Many of those predictions are by those that have an agenda to follow. All those little wobbles on the pound caused by brexit scare stories, you can bet someone, somewhere is cleaning up, assuming they had advanced knowledge of the story. Likewise scare stories of industrial relocation, or stalled output. Those little ripples on the stock market all represent winners and losers. I wonder who, if anyone, is policing all this manipulation? For criminals it has made every day Christmas day.
Blundering around in all this is Corbyn. Is he naive, stupid, or extremely cunning? He appears to indicate this one day, that another. Trying to pin the man down is like scooping water with a sieve.
Brexit is not simply a political decision, there are many other big players involved,all busy imposing their soundbites and written articles. There is no neutrality in what we are allowed to see or hear. We Politely call it spin is because everyone is unwilling to call it blatant censorship and crude propaganda.
Big business and politicians sorely miscalculated, we voted for out brother out. The gentle trip into the United Serfs of Europe hit a rock, capsized and then blew up and the debris is still falling. Hence the lack of a unified strategy to deal with the aftermath. Everything is pulling in different directions and the only clear thing that I see is that many MPs are woefully out of step with the wishes of their electorate. Should an election be called someone like Farage or similar could give both parties a severe drubbing.
Ignoring the little people seems to be trait of modern politics, but it is the little people that put bums on seats in Westminster. It behoves the elected to remember they are beholden to the electorate, For many this realisation will come too late

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 07:39 AM

what little people.....leprechauns? goblins?

You could on to something Iains....i've been ignoring them for years!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 08:06 AM

Steve, a rerun of the referendum or a parliamentary vote to delay things would enable brexit to be kicked a way down the road. Then demographics, would do the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 08:30 AM

you gotta admit...its interesting. even if you don't have a horse in the race.

i think what i like about it is that Corbyn , May etc are really intelligent people. And its interesting what they're going to do and say and respond.

i'm so glad Trump isn't our boss.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 09:18 AM

"Then demographics, would do the rest."

But people age. And as Lloyd George reputedly said said:

"A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn’t got a head."

and we must remember that Winston Churchill said:
"There are two places only where socialism will work; In Heaven where it is not needed, and in Hell where they already have it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 09:30 AM

Famulous speech by Corbyn at the Conference - here's hoping he isn't another Tory-ci-Blairite 'all wind and piss merchant'
For all his "lack of personality" he's one of the most inspiring speakers I've heard
Must have been taking lessons from Rees Mogg eh !!!
THE RIGHT'S DREAM TEAM
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 09:42 AM

The EU is extremely worried:
Corbyn is expected in Brussels on Thursday to meet the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, to explain his position. But there is growing concern that Labour’s determination to unseat May could instead propel UK into a “cliff-edge” Brexit, throwing the continent into chaos.

On Tuesday Barnier, gave a downbeat analysis of the state of the negotiations during a private meeting with MEPs.

Afterwards, the leader of the Greens in the European parliament, Philippe Lamberts, told the Guardian: “I have zero trust in Labour, I am afraid to say. The Labour position is not to do with principles, but about tactical considerations. It is all about getting the government out of power whatever the cost.”

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 12:56 PM

Labour will double offshore wind farms


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/26/labour-will-double-number-onshore-windfarms-jeremy-corbyn-announce/

http://notrickszone.com/2016/02/02/offshore-offshore-wind-turbine-maintenance-costs-100-times-more-expensive-than-new-turbine-it

Another fine mess you want to get us into Corbyn.
Seems as good a place as any other to waste money. Just shake the branches of the labour loon magic money tree, eeh?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 02:01 PM

Great conference - great statements on Antisemitism and Palestine - standing ovations all round
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 02:53 PM

A new poll by BMG Research for Huffington Post has found that just 16% of Brits favour remaining in the EU when presented with all the options hand-picked options maybe. "All" should mean the ones you hadn't thought of, & unintended consequences. Those willing to listen would fall asleep or just give in if you could list all the options. There is not enough time in one life!

Only the old the swivel-eyed right and loony left would hang on to their mistakes. And put fallacious spin on them. That's the problem with common sense, it is not that common and doesn't make sense to the evangelical.

16% of which planet? Geeze, can we get back to the real world?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:18 PM

As conference speeches go, Jim, it was a blinder. And I think he's gone a fair way towards uniting the party and sidelining those bitter ex-Blairites. He also did a fair amount to dispel that grey-man, grey-beard, allotmenteer, bike-rider image that the right-wing press and the more feeble-minded Mudcat denizens would have us embrace. A damn sight more targeted wit than Sir Vince managed and that I'm rock-solid certain Theresa will achieve. However, it's just a conference speech at the end of the day. He didn't have anyone heckling to ask where the dough was coming from. That's fine, but he has questions to answer on that score, no messing. As for Palestine, brilliant and fearless. As for antisemitism, he addressed the issue honestly, straightforwardly and without trepidation. You CAN go to town criticising the Israeli regime, You CAN go to town on the illegal settlements and the proclaiming of Jerusalem as the capital of the Jews and you CAN go to town on the mass slaughter of unarmed civilians on the Gaza border. And you CAN go to town on all those depredations without being branded antisemitic. And Jonathan bloody Sacks can go to hell, despite the kneejerk calls of even allegedly decent papers for Jezza to "apologise" to him.

Maybe one day I'll tell you what I really think...

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:39 PM

And if that's how you interpret the speech - lets hope no one else does. Or we're SO fucked!

Corbyn is trying to smooth over things.

Try going to town on the implacable enemies of Israel who stabbed a policeman outside our Houses of Parliament.

Or if you can't manage that. Maybe you could give the guy a break, by not stirring the shit for a while.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 04:51 PM

Try that again, Al, maybe when you get over your distemper. As I said, at the end of the day it was just a conference speech. Did you catch me saying that or not, Al? Maybe you'll tell us, one day, constructively for a bloody change, what you really want, instead of trashing everyone and everything whilst giving us not a scrap of any idea of your alternative. I live in hope.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 05:02 PM

And, for Al's information, here's Wiki on the attack he referred to:

"Masood reportedly said in a final text message that he was waging jihad in revenge for Western military action in Muslim countries in the Middle East. Amaq News Agency, which is linked to Islamic State, said the attacker answered the group's calls to target citizens of states that are fighting against it, though the claim was questioned by the UK police and government. Police have found no link with a terrorist organisation and believe Masood acted alone."

Any more bullshit you want to make up, Al?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 05:13 PM

Someone having a bad day?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 18 - 09:03 PM

Well I thought Corbyn was trying for a period of rapprochement with the Jewish community - many of whom think of Israel as a spiritual home and a guarantee of their right to have somewhere in the world that can be a refuge - should the nazis or pogroms start up in their country.

This was interpreted by you as:-

'You CAN go to town criticising the Israeli regime, You CAN go to town on the illegal settlements and the proclaiming of Jerusalem as the capital of the Jews and you CAN go to town on the mass slaughter of unarmed civilians on the Gaza border. And you CAN go to town on all those depredations without being branded antisemitic. And Jonathan bloody Sacks can go to hell, despite the kneejerk calls of even allegedly decent papers for Jezza to "apologise" to him. '

Shall we say a slight difference of emphasis.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 02:24 AM

Well, Al, Corbyn trod a careful yet confident line which will fail to satisfy only those who would refuse to be satisfied even by the most abject grovelling. That is not what we need. We need to be able to support the Palestinian cause openly if we want to, and to utterly condemn the actions of the Israeli regime in discriminating against non-Jews in their own country, Arabs in particular, in illegally annexing land for settlements and in maintaining an inhuman siege that effectively imprisons almost two million people in terrible conditions. So you think we can't say those things or that saying them out loud is somehow damaging. Well, frankly, it's far more damaging to be cowed into silence about blatant injustices committed by just one side whilst feeling free to excoriate the other, as inaccurately as you like in your case. Just open your eyes to the REALITY of what is going on. You are quite open in your loose talk about the implacable enemies of the Israeli people but you're scathing about any criticism of the Israeli regime. Well we get quite a lot of that here, don't we? Review Jezza's speech and tell me, precisely and in quotes, what he said that was antisemitic. Review what I've just said in this post and tell me, precisely and in quotes, what I've said that is antisemitic. AND WHY YOU THINK SO. Not an order, just an invitation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 02:26 AM

By the way, Corbyn did say all those things in his speech that I put in my post. No difference in emphasis.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 02:43 AM

I don't think we're doing the Labour Party any favours arguing about it.

You do.

That's the main difference.

The people on this forum are much too fond of screaming insults, rather than looking areas on which we can agree.

Corbyn wouldn't have mentioned the subject, if he wasn't trying to keep the Jewish vote on board. Try to respect his ambition to get elected.
There are circumstances when frequently expressed righteous indignation is counter productive and a complete piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 02:45 AM

If you say so. I'm just wondering which of the two of us is supposed to have indulged in it, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 02:48 AM

Labour can now officially be called the loon party. Instead of speeches by statesTGB?????, we are given speeches, even labelled by the EU, as naked opportunism (otherwise known as Machiavellianism, unscrupulousness) The EU is more scared of Corbyn than Putin!

Makes a person proud to be a non member of the sorry shower.

A non partisan view:

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1023447/Corbyn-was-trite-long-winded-and-oozed-hypocrisy

and I have to thank my mate Guido for leading me to this gem:
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/corbyn-unveils-labour-time-machine-to-change-the-past/

But before Labour can carry out its Per Ardua ad Astra stunt it needs a reliable source of fairy dust!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 02:50 AM

Incidentally, imagine the righteous indignation all over the media had he NOT mentioned the issue. If he was trying to keep the Jewish community on board, he was doing it by being straightforward and honest about Labour's recent issues and about how Labour is the inclusive and natural home of all races and ethnic groups and minorities. Which it is and always was.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 04:17 AM

"Corbyn wouldn't have mentioned the subject, if he wasn't trying to keep the Jewish vote on board."
That it totally unfair Al and if you thought about it you'd know it
When the accusations were made Labour held an enquiry and made public the results
Which other prty has done that - certainly not the Tories who were openly accused of serious Islamophobia several ago - that accusation was repeated this year - so far, nothing

No serious problem of antisemitism was found, certainly nont greater than in any other party or political or social group- if you examine the cases, none have specifically been made
What are these serious accusations of "antisemitism" that Labour is guilty of - do you know ?
It's certainly not attacking or denigrating the Jewish People

"Corbyn's ambition to get elected"
What a god-awful phrase
The Labour Party's history is littered with the corpses of past leaders (like Blair) who came in like a fresh breeze and went our like a miasmic fog
Corbyn is worth nothing if he doesn't live up to his promises
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 04:27 AM

From The Slog:
"The most hilariously sad quote of the day came from Jeremy Corbyn in his keynote speech, when he asserted that Labour represents “the new common sense of our times”. It was hard to find any common sense about Brexit, strike action, the economy, the coming Crash, feminism, immigration or, indeed….well, pretty much anything, really.

To make things worse, there were yet more signs of Corbyn the barley-in-the-wind politician shifting his ground to try and make himself electable: the Russians, he now insists, were ‘clearly’ responsible for the Novichok poisonings. His previous stance on this one was that there was no evidence at all linking the Putin-led State to the Skripal caper. He was right then; he is wrong now. But Corbyn’s nose has sniffed the mood of the times, and so he is happy to go with the same risible propaganda from the media he affects to loathe: happy as Larry, in fact, to be on the same side as Boris Johnson, Theresa May and Emmanuel Macron.

Obviously no need to Bring on the Clowns!

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 05:37 AM

There is a tricky game being played here. I can imagine May brings back a deal, it gets voted down because of Labour, so we end up in no deal.

And guess what, all the difficulties of no-deal "will be Labour's fault, because we brought back a deal that would have avoided all this and Labour blocked it."

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 05:43 AM

and who was silly enough to get boxed into that corner?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 05:58 AM

well, that ignores the fact there could only be a rejection of her deal if enough of her party reject it. Labour and the others could not do it because they dont have the numbers.

But the spin will quietly ignore that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 05:58 AM

Labour can't block a deal on its own. They'll need the help of the LibDems and a whole bunch of dissident Tories. What WOULD be bad is if Labour tried to block a deal but failed.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 06:04 AM

We cross posted there, Steve. But no matter as we each made a further secondary point.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 09:15 AM

The game is changing by the day as far as Brexit is concerned
The Nortehr Ireland authorities, largely supporters on the British Government, have just announced that if Britain crashes out of Europe without a deal they will be unable to guarantee electricity supplies to the Six Counties
It's getting to look like Briain will be leaving Europe against the wishes of a larger number of British people than those who voted for it in the Referendum
Labour needs to keep their ear on the ground rather than go for 'the glittering prizes' of power

Noby will ever know what the British people think about leaving Europe now the consequences of going so have become obvious without a second referendum
Pointing to the first vote is now as undemocratic as it gets
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 09:54 AM

You need a new keyboard, Jim! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 10:07 AM

When the accusations were made Labour held an enquiry and made public the results
Which other prty has done that -

No other party has been swamped with complaints of it from its members, Jews and Gentiles alike.

Most of the complaints came AFTER the enquiry. Have any of the enquiry recommendations been enacted yet?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 12:49 PM

"You need a new keyboard, Jim! :-)"

Need more time to post Baccy - I hate gardening

I see Judge Roy Acheson is at it with his hangman's rope again
Maybe he needs to go on the "nobody is above the law" thread and explain why it is not necessary to say what a Party has done before you hang them
Maybe he can explain why the Tories are exempt from holding enquiries into similar accusations and why he isn't up in arms about that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 12:55 PM

Though I doubt if he will in either case - he hasn't so far, but why spoil a good lynching with natural justice
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 01:44 PM

"The Nortehr Ireland authorities, largely supporters on the British Government, have just announced that if Britain crashes out of Europe without a deal they will be unable to guarantee electricity supplies to the Six Counties"

Poor little jimmie. dont know where he got that gem from. As usual it is rubbish. Northern Ireland is a net exporter of electricity to the Republic. As a self styled ex sparky you should know these basic facts!

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ireland-imports-90pc-of-its-oil-and-gas-from-uk-so-energy-must-be-near-top-of-list-of

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-s-energy-crisis-1.2111299
"Northern Ireland trades electricity with the Republic of Ireland to which it is a net exporter. It also imports electricity from Scotland via the Moyle interconnector"
This was all   spelt out very clearly in a recent thread. I really cannot be bothered to dredge it allup again

Facts jimmy, FACTS

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 03:32 PM

A gentle reminder, Jim. Just don't fall for it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 18 - 03:49 PM

"Just don't fall for it."
Don't have to Dave
We are discussing something that appeared in today's press - totally beond me what a three-year-old article can possibly have to do with a statement put out by the British authorities - can you?
Thanks for the heads up - one day at a time eh!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 05:08 AM

The loony left and abbacus school of maths.
And you want to elect them???????????????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-grpwftFUw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnsZzkizxw8

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 05:38 AM

IT'S ABOUT TIME WE MOVED AWAY FROM THIS RABID RIGHT IMBECILITY

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 05:53 AM

THEE REALITY OF EDUCATION IN BRITAIN
Back to the good old days
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/inequality-ifs-report-getting-worse-bank-of-mum-and-dad-class-education-a7888606.html
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 05:59 AM

Aother home truth
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/child-poverty-increase-children-family-benefit-households-a8268191.html
MORE
IN DETAIL
Planned destruction of health service
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nhs-crisis-winter-theresa-may-austerity-cuts-beds-all-going-to-plan-a8154161.html
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 06:29 AM

Labour educashun policy!


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2017/04/13/one-rule-another-everybody-else-nick-robinson-skewers-angela/

One rule to rule them all, one rule to find them, One rule to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

snigger, snigger!

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2005/12/why-do-my-labour-friends-send-their-children-to-private-school/

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 07:28 AM

HOW BRITAIN IS SPREADING ITS INFLUENCE ABROAD

WELCOME TO BRITAIN

HEALTH OF THE 'HEALTH' SERVICE

THE UNITED KINGDOM
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/north-south-divide-life-expectancy-northern-powerhouse-inequality-opportunities-a7887771.html

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 07:39 AM

LABOUR'S PLANS FOR EDUCATION
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 12:13 PM

My apologies to the people on this thread for leaving abruptly.
I wasn't being rude.
I wrote a detailed reply but the computer ate it, and somehow I thought I'd better do some of the things I'm supposed to be doing - rather than compose it all again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 12:41 PM

Come back Al - all is forgiven
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 12:41 PM

Come back Al - all is forgiven
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 01:38 PM

Bit of a cock-up on the Security front at the Tory Conference. Details of names and addresses of ministers, MPs, other attendees, journalists, available on the conference app to any terrorist who cares to take a peek.

Wonder if our resident Troll will be shooting his mouth off about this one the way he did about Labour hangers-on in Westminster without passes?

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 01:39 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-party-conference-leak-personal-data-breach-mp-phone-numbers-email-ad

Subject: RE: BS: UK party conferences
From: Iains
Date: 29 Sep 18 - 02:52 PM

Be interesting ro see what happens to the Guardian hack Dawn Foster.   She logged on as Boris Johnson. She then – illegally in a breach of data protection laws – tweeted out the exploit to all and sundry leading to a massive data breach being opened for it seems about an hour before CCHQ managed to shut down all the personalisation functions.

Oh dear oh dear!