BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:37 PM

Last night the BBC radio program(me) "Hard Talk" took on Israel's UN ambassador Danny Danon. The interviewer, Steven Sackur, gave him a hard time. It was a good show. I enjoyed it. It doesn't mean I agreed with everything I heard, but it was precisely the kind of conversation that is necessary in these times, real opinions not soundbites or Twitter chirps. It was not in the least anti-semitic though the BBC interviewer was quite critical. That was his job.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 07:14 PM

Margaret Hodge:

Do read the wiki entry on her. She has a long history of damaging incompetence in all the roles given to her, of inconsistency apropos of Labour foreign policy (she railed against it often, yet voted for the invasion of Iraq, etc), of providing unwarranted publicity which greatly boosted the BNP, of extremely dubious expenses claims, among the highest during the scandal, of massive tax avoidance by her close family, and of lying about Jeremy Corbyn. Fine, quote her in support of your cause 'til the cows come home, but, frankly, she is not the kind of person I'd ever want to listen to.

Israel and racism:

When Israel came into being in the late 40s, three quarters of a million Arabs, that is, men, women, children, not soldiers or politicos, were either forced to flee or were actively driven out of their homes in what we now call Israel to make a homeland for Jews, many of whom were immigrants. Is that racist? I should say so. Am I antisemitic for making that accurate assessment of the events of that time? No, I am not. Should I be prevented from expressing that view? No, I should not. Feel free to argue the point. But include in your argument the current received wisdom that the NEC caveat is out of order. No it isn't, and to assert otherwise would be a naked attack on freedom of speech. Argue until you're blue in the face about what a bad tactic you think it was. But it is principled. Sod tactics.

So should Israel be wiped off the map?

No, never. Israel is a state of eight or nine million people, three-quarters only of them Jewish. Men, women, children. A lot of water has gone under the bridge, we are where we are and we have to make the best of what started as a very bad job (don't you just love cliches?) The history of mankind is littered with examples of stolen land making new countries or expanding existing ones. We live with that and, if we are really trying to be civilised, we try to reconcile historical differences and treat all citizens equally as fellow human beings. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in Israel. In almost every regard, non-Jews in Israel do very badly compared with Jews. That is well-documented and unarguable. I've given details several times in the past, gleaned from reputable sources only, and it's easily checkable. By any measure, that amounts to the perpetuation of the state of Israel as an institutionally-racist endeavour. Not only that, Zionists insist on calling Israel a Jewish state, ignoring the fact that a quarter of its citizens, the ones discriminated against, are not Jews. Applied to any other state, let's say apartheid South Africa or Iain Smith's Rhodesia, and you would never even think of arguing that they weren't racist states. It is very important that we are allowed to state these things with your having the protective umbrella of calling us antisemites for saying so. We are not, because not once have we ever said that these things are done by Jews because that's typical of what Jews do. Never, never, never!

Note that I don't say that Jews are institutionally a racist ethnic group. They are not. Ordinary Jewish people are just the same as ordinary Christian people or ordinary Muslim people. They are who they are by accident of birth and, like everybody else, they listen to, are influenced by and are swayed by their leaders. Like everybody else. No different. Like everybody else. Just like us in the UK, a bit thick on the whole when it comes to politics, not their fault (cf. brexit vote...), therefore rather easily manipulated. There are millions of racist Jews in Israel just as there are millions of racist Brits and even more millions of racist yanks. There's nothing special or exalted about Jews. As a matter of fact, when I take my old mum to Prestwich, where there are thousands of Jews, and do a spot of people-watching from the caff, I can't tell who's a Jew and who isn't. And I don't bloody care. I sort of like that. My mum is always trying to guess, trying to Jew-spot, but she's hopeless at it and I have to remonstrate with her every time we go. Oh, and by the way, that caff is thoroughly Jewish, best coffee in the north, and I gave it five stars on Trip Advisor, and I'd take the lovely lady owner 'ome any day if I could get away with it wi' Mrs Steve!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 07:10 PM

You are all left looking very silly with egg on your faces.

Yep, just as with the Skripal affair. That's what happens when you're an ideologue and and the ideologies you cling to fail your dogmatic view of the world. Truth has a nasty habit of eventually being revealed and delights in egging ideologues.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 05:47 PM

DTG:

I am way behind on the larger issues obtaining in the UK right now. I'm sure that BREXIT looms large, is it the 'ball' that everyone should bee keeping their eye on or are there similarly large issues being ignored? I have suspected that the 'antisemitism' trope is being used as a ploy while bigger kettles come to boil. Here in 'murrica the issue of a Supreme Court Justice is sort of important but whole swaths of stuff are being ignored (legal/ prison reform, health care reform, military adjustments, NATO, you name 'em they're there) on the cheesy altars of celebrity identity and corporate dominance.

Bread and Circuses.

I used to know some British Jews. Damn interesting folks. Hard to believe so many of them would be ready to leave what with Jim Carroll and his ilk so loyally advocating for their welfare.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 05:26 PM

Robo, your analogy works on a number of levels but the closest is that Corbyn is receiving the same treatment from our right wing as Obama was from your republicans. You can see how good a hatchet job they have done on him by reading the comments on here. He may be far from perfect but, as politicians go, he is most certainly head and shoulders above May's marauders. The fact that he has the entire right wing in arms against him shows how scared they are and what a good job he is doing for the left.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 04:32 PM

A scary Jewish Chronicle survey. Nearly 40% of British Jews would emigrate if Corbyn became PM. The man must be the devil incarnate!

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/nearly-40-per-cent-of-british-jews-would-seriously-consider-emigrating-if-corbyn-became-pm-1.469270

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 04:19 PM

THe important thing here is those accusing Labour of antisemitism should

Well jimmy here is clot corbyn acknowledging antisemitism,
Can we have an apology now?

Here you have it straight from the hosse's mouth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuna08vs_c

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:59 PM

David, Labour should have been hammering the Tories over brexit from day one. Instead they have become sidetracked over issues, that under a forceful leader, would have been resolved rapidly,forcefully, quietly, and in house.
Instead it has made headline news worldwide and to be honest I have no idea what Labour's position on brexit really is. A sad indictment of an opposition party totally lacking in credibility. How labour MPs react is a matter for them and their constituents. The problem is to recognise those that have a valid problem and those that are simply grandstanding,
meanwhile Rome burns!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:52 PM

THe important thing here is those accusing Labour of antisemitism should
Not one of these hypocrites has been able to do this s far (though Iain's has dishonestly claimed that they have)
Any offors Robo - no - thought not
Friggin' lynch mob - all of you
You should be ashamed of your spineless behaviour
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:47 PM

I agree with you to some extent Iains, the important issues should be addressed. So what the hell does Margaret Hodge think she is doing? She should just shut up and get on with opposing the tories. Frank Field of course is a closet tory and a brexit apologist, so nothing else is to be expected from him.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:08 PM

"You are all acting like anti-Obama American Republicans."
And you are acting like little David Irvings busilly denying holocausts and mass murders
By associating criticism of the Israeli reginme iwth antisemitism you have now obtained the rank of honourary anti semite
Go read the definition - it is anti-semitic to make such an accusation
You paeple are helping spread the growing anti semitism buy maing Israeli behaviour 'Jewish'
THere are already three two many antisemites on this forum without your joining them

I suggest you be removed if you repeat your sick and unsustainable accusation
I think the more you people post, the more Labour's innocence of what it has been accused of becomes apparent
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:02 PM

Repeatedly bringing up the subject of Wheatcroft betrays the lack of rational counter argument on here. Dragging up past threads achieves absolutely nothing in the way of advancing the discussion about the Labour party and antisemitism.
The most divisive event in British politics in decades(namely brexit)
is given the backfooting by Labour as they self destruct over a definition of antisemitism accepted in its entirety by 24 of the 28 EU nations.
The opposition party is a disgrace and led by a rudderless buffoon that lacks the nous to punch his way out of a very wet brown paper bag, while the lack lustre labour supporters argue over the minutiae of the wording and claim it is a ruse to replace Corbyn. Please keep on with your nonsensical arguments and keep Jeremy the patron saint of idiocy in command of your party. It could not be in a more useless set of hands. Meanwhile brexit comes ever closer.
I guess to prioritise is an alien concept for labour supporters.
Keep up the good work, you are ensuring st jeremy of the allotment will never make the bigtime in the west.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 02:59 PM

Since when did on atrocity cancel out another ???
They are equally all war criminals

My family were involved in opposing pre-war antisemitism and have always supported Israel - I condemn all despotic behaviour without distinction but am more aware of Israel's because I am an ex- supporter
It is an act of betrayal of the six million who died that the present regime is behaving toward the Arabs as the anti semites have behaved towards the Jews throughout history
Your "whataboutism" is little more than sick appeasement
Many of the worst regimes on the planet today are Britain's and America's allies - and ready customers for British arms
Syria was sold British ammunition which possibly went into the training of Homs snipers - Britain supplied riot control equipment to suppress Arab Spring protests and chemicals capable of allowing Assad to build a hue stockpile of chemical weapons
You may take our facile comparisons and stick them where they can do the least harm
You dismiss these atrocities as 'horrible occurrences' they are war crimes and crimes against humanity -America has used its veto over 100 occasions to prevent condemnation of Israel in the U.N. - 37 of those relate directly to mass murder

"It is OFF-TOPIC."
If it is off topic, why did you raise Israel's so-called democracy other that you thought you might get away with it?
If, as is becoming increasingly obvious, Israel has instigated accusations of antisemitism against a major British Party, it directly concerns Britain as does the fact that Russia intervened in the British and American electoral process, it most certainly s not "off topic"
While I believe that to be the case I will continue to raise it despite efforts of you and yours to sweep it under the table
Israel a democracy my arse
im Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 02:34 PM

Actually, Jim and some others have raised not so much an on-topic discussion point so much as a relevant point of attitude.

You are all acting like anti-Obama American Republicans.

Obama was not perfect. But he was at the very least a good American President. He paid attention to the actual stuff of government that needed attention. He tackled some major issues, such as Healthcare. And what did the Republicans do? They blocked him in every way they could, from policy positins (some of which they had previously endorsed) to pretty much any political appointment they could vote on, especially getting judges at any level approved.
And they lied, and they lied and they lied about Obama and Hillary Clinton. They indulged in any form of character assassination they could.
And, tactically, it worked.
Even in his first administration I was lacking in a way to explain it. Obama was not Muslim. He was not Socialist. He wasn't really that liberal. His administration observed a steady American immigration policy which resulted in many deportations. So what was left? Only the shade of his skin. I started using the term "free floating racism", because while the Republicans insisted 'no, no, we're not racist' the only thing I could think of left to really object to him was that a non-white, the first non-white in a line of over two hundred years of Presidents, had made it legally to the seat of power, and was in addition obviously competent. This madness could not be.

Similiarly, of all the national actors in the Mideast, Israel stands out: Multi-ethnic. Democratic. Great business activity. No one says it's perfect. But it is undeniably exceptional.

I think it is justifiable to argue that many of the diatribes and voices raised against her are due to free floating anti-Semitism. And I don’t care if you call it anti-Zionism. They are the same thing in this case because it is Israel as a Jewish state that is descried.

I think the criticism meted out to Labour is well warranted and many of the folks in this forum are well representing the problem in its most basic form.

And for that, I thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 02:13 PM

Jim, Jim, at some point the blinders have to come off. You can list horrible occurrences to your heart's content, but anyone who can cut and paste can go from Algeria across North Africa across Syria into, let us say, Yemen. Or on to Turkey and their gentle treatment of their Kurdish minority and assemble a counterpile to anything you feel relevant. It is OFF-TOPIC.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 01:54 PM

I don't think Corbyn is the second coming, Robo, and have never intimated any such thing. I do not think he deserves the kicking he is getting though.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 01:30 PM

MISSED A BIT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 01:30 PM

Jim,
We are not dealing with any state.
Stop going on about Israel.
Start a thread so all the propaganda you spout can be answered.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 01:02 PM

THaknk you for the opportunity of making those ponts again - always worth reminding people of the type of state wea are dealing with

107
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:57 PM

"Yet all this donnybrook about Israeli policy, which is primarily designed to preserve her existence."
No it is not - Israel in a rich State with world-wide support - it a nuclear power with a highly trained heavily armed

Israeli Policy is openly aggressive and expansionist, so much so that many Jews are now distancing themselves from their ulta-right win policies
Among those who have compared their behaviour to that of the nazis are at least two of the ex-heads of Mossad interviewed for the documentary, 'The Gatekeepers - the other four where highly critical but didn't quite go so far

On September 1982, the Israeli Army armed and transported a group of Falangist militiamen to the Sabra Shatila refugee camp in Lebanon, opened the gates and stood by while they massacred up to 3'500 unarmed refugee men women and children over three days; they lit the site of the massacre of two full nits so the massacre could continue day and night, turning back refugees at the gates who attempted to escape.
They assisted with the digging of mass graves with their bulldozers, then drove the killers away allowing them to escape
Nobody knows the exact death toll as they later built a sports stadiumm over where the bodies were buried
Eye witness, American/Jewish nurse, ellen seigal has dedicated her life to bringing Israel to book for the greatest single mass murder of non-combatants in the latter half of the 20th century.
The man found to be responsible for facilitating this massacre (even by Israel's own enquiry) Ariel Sharon (founder of the Likud Party) was punished for his crimes by later being elected Prime Minister Of Israel
None of this can be described as in any way 'defensive' or 'democratic'
Israel's history is peppered wit incidents such as ths - the earliest warning of the possibility of Israel developing into a fasist state was in a letter Letter to The New York Times. December 4, 1948 when he and 26 of his fellow intellectuals recred to massacres that were taking place as far back as that
Now, recent surveys have found that between on third and one half of Israeli citizens are in favour of ethnically cleansing Arabs from the territory
Where do you get this stuff?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:51 PM

The hole is where this thread has gone. From issues to _holes.
Leave off the castigating and get back on track.
Or end it.

DTG: 'Splain me why Corbyn is the second coming.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:43 PM

Just leave him to it chaps. The hole is getting deeper and deeper!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:41 PM

Huff Post,
"Jerermy Corbyn Ally Apologises After Saying 'Trump Fanatics' Were 'Making Up' Anti-Semitism Claims
Peter Willsman says he is referring himself to receive equalities training."

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/peter-willsman-apology_uk_5b609b7de4b0de86f49b6c6c

I was right.
You are all left looking very silly with egg on your faces.
Ha ha ha!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:38 PM

If anyone would care to point out the Wheatcroft moment please feel free. But be warned, that route leads to madness :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:31 PM

whatis te antisemistism you have spent seveal years accusing Labour of ?

The anti-Semitism they accuse themselves of.

The man's an instictive liar"

Except all of you have failed to find a single one!

Once again you all resort to baseless personal attack because you have no case.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:31 PM

The 'smallest quarterback' is the only one in the league with nuclear weapons, Robo. But this is not really anything to do with Israel anyway and is about systematically trying to destroy the Leader of the Labour party because of the major threat he poses to the right wing in all countries.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:03 PM

Aaaaaand...100!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 11:34 AM

Not only is the definition of antisemitism a field of study, so is the use of racism to describe Israeli policy, attitude, and treatment of Palestinians (so-called). Israelis come in all colors. Palesitinians come in various shades, too. But the actual issues around which things really matter are the ones of land ownership, land occupation, right-of-return (or not).
Israel is a democratic country with all races, all religions, all sexual orientations and variations. and a strong capitalistic economy with some strong socialistic institutions.
Pick any next-door neighbor to Israel and you get dictatorship, monoculture, oppression of women, educational starvation, and civil strife. Big-time.
Yet all this donnybrook about Israeli policy, which is primarily designed to preserve her existence. Piling on to the smallest quarterback in the league because it's the one with the filed teeth. Real brave. Real crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 11:15 AM

"The man's an instictive liar"

Yep. Also the Peter Pan of Mudcat - he never grew up. A childish troll and attention seeker who employs the behaviour of the playground to hook the unwary into his stupid games.

He really is best ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 11:07 AM

Agreed, Jim. More twists than a John le Carré novel. The sooner that everyone agrees to not get drawn down to the same level, the better.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 11:01 AM

"So why did he apologise and agree to diversity training?"
All parliamentarians need behavioral training - it's like a feckin zoo
How can he admit it if he denied it
No more keith - whatis te antisemistism you have spent seveal years accusing Labour of ?

"FFS! Don't. Feed. The. Troll."
He won't answer this so I have done my job and finished
The man's an instictive liar
Jim Carrl

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:53 AM

He himself admits it was anti-Semitic (05 Sep 18 - 08:47 AM) to Neither in the text or the audio does he deny that his words were anti-Semitic (05 Sep 18 - 10:12 AM)

Both statements verifiably true.
What is your point Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:35 AM

"You fell for it earlier though :-D"

Ha! That I did Dave. I was giving him a chance to behave like an adult and have a reasoned, rational discussion but, as I ought to have expected, he's firmly and permanently entrenched in the schoolyard, and proved himself incapable. You can't educate pork.

It won't happen again.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:27 AM

You know, thinking about it, I have never denied that I often fart the national anthem. I suppose that means I must admit it.

Steve, you have never denied jumping off the wardrobe crying 'Geronimo' while dressed in skin tight spandex.

BWM, I have never heard you deny your never ending love for marmalade and pickle sandwiches.

There are some very strange people round here...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:22 AM

Amen, BWM.

You fell for it earlier though :-D

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:21 AM

I will make one prediction though :-)

The route from He himself admits it was anti-Semitic (05 Sep 18 - 08:47 AM) to Neither in the text or the audio does he deny that his words were anti-Semitic (05 Sep 18 - 10:12 AM) will feature in the verbal gymnastics that are bound to ensue.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:19 AM

FFS! Don't. Feed. The. Troll.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:17 AM

And now Dave has egg on his face too.

I was right in what I said. He never denied his words were anti-Semitic.
He did not challenge Labour's or Momentum's charge that he had been anti-Semitic.
He apologised as requested and agreed to diversity training exactly as I said.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:13 AM

Give over Chaps. You know the score by now. Everyone has seen what was said and there is no need to engage in the linguistics knots that he will go through to try and win what has already been lost. Don't fall for it!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:12 AM

Steve,
It was Jim that got it wrong, or lied if you prefer.
Here is the link he referred to.
Neither in the text or the audio does he deny that his words were anti-Semitic.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/03/peter-willsman-the-labour-veteran-behind-latest-antisemitism-row

Everything I stated was true. You and Jim have egg on your faces again.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:04 AM

I did not lie and never have.
He did apologise.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 10:01 AM

Not the point. You lied, just as you lied over Wheatcroft. We don't like you enough not to find you out. You never learn, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:52 AM

You lied when you said Willsman admitted what he said was anti-Semitic

So why did he apologise and agree to diversity training?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:37 AM

Incidentally Keith
You lied when you said Willsman admitted what he said was antisemitic

From your own link
The veteran leftwing activist Peter Willsman has spent most of his career in Labour politics, either sitting on the NEC or fighting to get on it, making him a well-known figure in party circles even if he is little known to the public.
Willsman was part of the Grassroots Alliance slate that humiliated Tony Blair at the height of his power in 1998, winning one of four spots on the party’s ruling body alongside the Islington barrister Liz Davies at the end of a bitterly fought campaign.
Even then, Willsman was described as a veteran figure, involved in the Bennite Campaign for Labour Party Democracy (CLPD), the fringe campaign that argued for a party conference accountable to members and mandatory reselection of MPs from as long ago as the 1970s.
He remains the secretary of CLPD, which was also once a stomping ground for Jon Lansman, the founder of Momentum. But the two men, both strong supporters of Jeremy Corbyn, are not thought to be close as they once were, as shown by Momentum’s decision to remove Willsman from its slate when he ran into controversy in July.
At the end of that month, Willsman was recorded as calling some Jews “Trump fanatics”, adding he would “not be lectured” by Jewish supporters of the US president “making up duff information without any evidence at all”, at an NEC meeting in July at which Corbyn was present.
Peter Willsman dismisses Labour antisemitism claims – audio
A recording was leaked to the Jewish Chronicle and his critics in the party were quick to pile in. Tom Watson, the party’s deputy leader, tweeted: “For the avoidance of doubt: Peter Willsman is and always has been a loud-mouthed bully. He disgusts me.”
A few days later Willsman apologised, saying he was >“of course aware of appalling instances of antisemitism in the party”, that he was “wholly determined to rooting it out of our movement” and that he would undertake equalities training.

Why do you do this - you always get found out?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:27 AM

THe labour Party leadership is playing to the crowd
Accusing members of loving Trump is not antisemitic, no matter who says it is
This is exactly the damage to the Jewish People I have described - nobody knows what antisemitism is any more
You explain why saying what he said is antisemitic and sop hiding behind what you claim others have said - you've done this far too often as you did when you claimed all Muslims were culturally implanted o have uderage sex - I've linked you to that one so don't you dare deny it
"Corbyn opposes any kind of boycott as a tactic to persuade the Israeli state to act as if it has a conscience. "
I think orbyn is caught between a rock and a hard place here - as he is with Brexit
On the one hand, he has the support of the Rank and File, on the other, he is faced with a benchful of career politicians more concerned about their bank-balances than they are about Socialism
So far, he's walked the tightrope pretty well despite Israel's efforts to bring him down
What he does now wil make him or break him
Britain desperately needs a party wit real alternative policies - he seems to be a hope of that, which is why he has my support
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:20 AM

This appears (and I may be wrong on this) to be an example which has made Corbyn cautious:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Let's assume that the authors of the definition disagree with the claim. Maybe we should discuss why the State of Israel is not 'a racist endeavor'?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 08:47 AM

- I've just listened to a recording of exactly what he said - I suggest you do the same

I have.
The Labour Party leadership says it is anti-Semitic.
Momentum says it is anti-Semitic.
He himself admits it was anti-Semitic.
Jim say it is not. No surprise there.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 08:39 AM

It does seem that there are various people, on this thread, in various of the media, and in the Labour party, who are seeking to use allegations of anti-semitism to shut down support for the Palestinian cause. Good for Corbyn for resisting this.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 08:38 AM

Corbyn opposes any kind of boycott as a tactic to persuade the Israeli state to act as if it has a conscience. With opposition like that, Israel is crying all the way to the bank.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 07:56 AM

I looked at the NY Times article.

While Mr. Corbyn insists he abhors racism and has offered several expressions of regret and apologies over the anti-Semitism claims, he is in no mood to hide either his criticism of Israel or the support he has given to pro-Palestinian causes for decades.

Good for Corbyn. Pity the NY Times journalist appears to take such a dim view of support for pro-Palestinian causes.