BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!

Subject: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 11:40 AM

This theme is probably just as relevant in the US, so shoot, yanks, but it's come up big-time over here in the last day or two. We've had Vince Cable, the leader of the Liberal Democrats (a party deservedly trounced in the last two elections - without their propping up the Tories in a bogus coalition we probably wouldn't have had that disastrous referendum for starters) calling for a getting-together of moderate-minded people who are, in his mind, not too far left and not too far right (though mostly too far wrong), his own shrunken mob plus a few unnamed Tories and Blairites, to get together to form some sort of unspecified alliance that will "reclaim the centre ground." He daren't say "a new political party," because last time someone tried that they were promptly cast into undignified oblivion by the electorate. Yesterday, Tony Blair was lamenting the loss of the centre ground by the Labour Party as Corbyn takes control, and sort of insinuating the same thing as Vince. I mean, as if Blair, warmonger-in-chief and serial liar, not to speak of bed-poodle of Dubya's, would know anything about moderation... now we have disaffected old New Labour moaner, Chukka Ummuna, "beseeching" Corbyn to "call off the dogs" in order to prevent "centre left" (ha) people being deselected or leaving the party. What a laugh. It's been Chukka and his tawdry gang of yesterday's people who have BEEN the dogs for the last two years. Seems to me that these people will go to any lengths to unseat Jeremy, even to the extent of throwing at least the next election if not several more after that. Putting in the Tories, so good for the country. As someone said on the Any Answers phone-in today, the last Labour manifesto under Corbyn was exceptionally moderate. Hardly revolutionary stuff, and it was all costed. You couldn't make it up. Maybe I just have done...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 11:46 AM

By the way, if anyone even THINKS of making this about a__is___tism, they'd better make sure first that they have easy and prompt access to someone who can cleanly and hygienically sew testicles back on...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 12:08 PM

damn you are getting more cryptic than I ever was

I am expecting a double digit pendulum swing back to the left which is the true center if folks actually voted.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 12:09 PM

i just bumped into our mp in town - she's very down about the way things are going in westminster. i suspect she is upset by a different lot of labour members than i am but i like her and respect the job she is doing and we are both too diplomatic to fall out about it. if we can agree about the need to support the leader (and the party) despite being from different wings of the party it seems to me that we all should manage it. all labour mps were elected with corbyn as leader and with a good manifesto. i wouldn't be too upset if a few mps left the party ('bye frank!) and went the same way as the tory liberals but really support for the public services, some renationalisation and an ethical foreign is really a very modest starting point for a more decent society.

(by the way what happened to the new thread with the odd name - and what was that morrison's wine you were recommending there steve?)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 12:19 PM

"...and what was that morrison's wine you were recommending there steve?"

Nero d'Avola. Just bought a bottle at Tesco for Mrs. Backwoodsperson - £5.00 a go.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 12:25 PM

BWM. Tesco! How could you? £10 for 2 at Mossers and it all helps my bonus next year :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 12:34 PM

Ha! Because I needed something specifically from Tesco. I spotted the Nero d'Avola as I passed the booze fixtures on the way to the checkout and, as it was pissing with rain, I couldn't be arsed to get wet walking across two car parks!

Sorry about your bonus - where do I send the 5p cheque? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jos
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 12:39 PM

My nearest Morrison's is an hour or more away by bus, a similar treck by combining train and walking, or about an hour and a half on foot, so if it is available at Tesco's it would be more convenient (apart from having to force myself to go to Tesco's). So before I attempt any of these, Backwoodsman: Is it oaky?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 12:43 PM

Haven't opened it yet, and I don't do alcohol, so it'll have to wait until Mrs. Backwoodsperson gets a thirst on, Jos! Sorreeeeee! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 12:52 PM

What were that motley crew called btw? SDP? Something like that? Was Shirley someoneoranother one of the founders?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 01:02 PM

Steve:
You'd be more convincing if you left existing threads alone instead of casting them aside when they no longer suited you. Maybe it's more about CONTROL Than AS for you...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 01:09 PM

On shit. Another thread closer...

Anyway, what's this about a 5p bonus BWM? It won't be that much. This is a Yorkshire company tha' knows.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 01:14 PM

I'll have a word with your boss, Dave! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 01:17 PM

Robomatic, Unfortunately the media in the UK have a massive impact, as I'm sure they do in the US of A.

Their impact on public opinion is out of all proportion to the numbers of people who actually own the outlets.

Sadly many people cannot read between the lines and believe the nonsense (that in many, many cases) that they are fed on a daily, monthly, weekly, annual basis.

The UK is a very, very wealthy country yet we have to have food banks to feed some of our population.

Those people are then castigated as inadequate because they cannot provide for themselves, there is something very wrong with a society that cannot (being very wealthy) provide for all it's population.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 01:32 PM

Haven't a bloody clue what robo is talking about.

Tesco Nero d'Avola is ok but not in the same league. I say this whilst declaring that I have no affiliation with Dave... :-)

I note that the Tory on Any Questions asserted that Thatcher was centre-ground. Bwhahahaha!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 01:32 PM

Seems to me that Labour have no other choice than to rid themselves of the career dross if they are to provide the alternative policy Britain needs
If the membership can't decide Party policy, what's the point of having a Party?
A narrow (voting) majority to a decision which will effect every British citizen (probably adversely)
We are told that this is 'the peoples' will'and it would be undemocratic to interfere with that decision, yet they howl like banshees being shafted at the idea that a large political party majority should decide the direction a party should take, squealing about "balance" and "moderation"
The right had no compunction in leaving behind its socialist principles when Blair and his 'New Labour Louts' took over - we know how that turned out!
'Time for a change' - those who do't like it should piss of and shut the door behind them - it's not as if they'll be missed
Last chance saloon for Labour as far as I'm concerned

By the way Dave, not too "center" I hope
The trouble about being middle-of-the-road is you end up getting hit from traffic from both ways
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 03:09 PM

Chukka Ummuna, "beseeching" Corbyn to "call off the dogs" in order to prevent "centre left" (ha) people being deselected or leaving the party.

Why the (ha) ?
He is talking for the Centre Left which is the majority of Labour MPs.
They do fear that they will be deselected if they do not pretend to believe in Far Left ideology. Three local parties have already passed votes of no confidence in Centre Left MPs to demonstrate that they have the numbers to do it.
Momentum are to try to get through conference a motion to make deselection easier.

Labour is being taken over by the Far Left and the existing MPs will not be allowed to get in the way.

Last time few joined SDP because their position in the party was not threatened. If they think they will be deselected anyway, they might as well jump.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 03:54 PM

Your analysis is, as ever, total, utter, complete, ideological bollocks. You never have anything sensible to say about anything. Tell you summat. Local constituencies having the ability to deselect shitbag right-wing MPs who are pretending to be socialists whilst serially undermining the party leader, thereby threatening to put the Tories in, is just about as democratic as it gets. Unarguable. If you don't like what the majority of your fellow constituents are doing, well tuff titty. Start your own bloody party. But this is my party and you're not in it. If we're hung, drawn and quartered for what we do, that's our business, not yours, and it's what is commonly known as "democracy." Bugger off and start a thread on your favourite Tory/Ukip parties. I promise you that I'll get incredibly bored incredibly quickly. As a matter of fact, I'm already incredibly bored with you. Go and sing a shanty or ten is my advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:08 PM

while obviously everyone will have a different perspective on where the centre is or the left, there are some policies that regularly get the overwhelming support of the population - for example -

should our NHS (and education system) be properly funded and free from privatisation?
should we have more police on the streets?
should we renationalise the trains and the power companies?
is it shameful to have foodbanks, homelessness and 4 million hungry children in one of the richest countries of the world?
should human rights and workers' rights be protected and enhanced?

etc now it doesn't matter if you call these policies left, centre or whatever - they are just sensible policies that would be entirely mainstream in any other european country.

sadly we live in england where the same population seem to think we should always be ruled by toffs (even when it is clear that they havn't a clue) and we are quite partial to a bit of war and distrust/dislike of foreigners. we have also been taught to distrust the dangerous lefties even when they are proposing the sort of policies that we approve.

we're a bit shit really eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:11 PM

and what happened to that thread with the strange name? started off quite promising i thought

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:23 PM

I agree Steve, but the constituency parties have been massively infiltrated by the Far-Left.
The old membership were perfectly happy with the Centre Left, but they have suddenly become the minority.

The Party has had a massive change imposed on it since Corbyn took over.
The existing MPs do not fit in any more. They will have to decide what to do.

It is going to be interesting. The Far Left have always been unelectable until now. Has that changed?
We will see.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:26 PM

Why do you have to be always so nasty Steve?
You people can not bare to be disagreed with on politics, however mildly.
I expect all the dogs will be on me soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:38 PM

Politics is a hardball sport over here too.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:39 PM

some of us dogs have better things to do. though admittedly not much better.
what do the old right/left terms mean any more? i thought we were on to 'open' and 'closed' minded people these days. some people try to stay open and interested and positive towards progress and other people. while some are little englander tories and ukipper type bigots. we are all a bit divided these days,eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:53 PM

Chukka usually talks some sense, but on this I don't know what he is on about. People at risk of deselection, and rightly so, are the likes of Field, Stringer and Hoey, brexit apologists propping up the tories. And Joan Ryan who is trying to equate being anti-Israel with being antisemitic. I do not know of any genuine moderates facing deselection.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:58 PM

nor do i (shock! horror! socialists are tired of being represented by tories!)but i think this story will be the next stick to beat the labour party with now the steam is running out on all that anti-semitic nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 06:26 PM

"I agree Steve, but the constituency parties have been massively infiltrated by the Far-Left.
The old membership were perfectly happy with the Centre Left, but they have suddenly become the minority"

Tough shit. It's not your party. You've spent years opposing everything about the Labour Party and I for one am bloody sick of it. Join the party and fight the good fight from within, but don't come here spouting your arrant sanctimonious rubbish. It's my party. I don't like everything my party does and I don't like everybody in it. But it's my party and if I don't like something I'll fight it from within, and I do. Toddle off and lionise your own bloody parties, which we know, in spite of your lying protestations, are, in sentiment, UKIP, the Tories and God knows who else on the right. You are totally obsessed with dissing Labour. It's a sort of medical issue with you. A bit psychological. A bit unhealthy. A bit diseased. There must be better things you can do with your rather sheltered suburban life (and I know Hertford rather well, before you protest). Go and sing your shanties down those Hertford pubs I happen to know. Jayz, I even spent B&B nights in some of those you sing your stuff in. My in-laws still live there. Christ, for all I know they may be unfortunate enough to be your next-door neighbours. They'll love you there. Just don't mention politics, otherwise you'll be out on your arse. It's a bit conservative with a small c round here in Kernow, but you wouldn't last two minutes here with your sick attitude.

And this post isn't nasty. It's advisory.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 06:30 PM

It's pretty futile asking people who express Islamophobic views in the form of "cultural implants" (quotes available on request) or support the selling of fighter planes to terrorist states who use them on third world impoverished people (quotes available on request, or who have defended Tory paedofiles and sex pests (quotes available on request) or described Irish children as having been brainwashed (quotes available on request) or described Northern Irish sectarian marches as "pleasant days out (quotes available on request) or blamed three days of Northern Ireland rioting on schoolchildren (quotes available on request), or described travellers as "slave owners" (quotes available on request)...... or expressed some of the most extreme views ever expressed on this forum (quotes available on request)..... to desist from using terms like "extreme left...
It is eequally futile to ask such people exactly what they mean by "extreme left"

CAN I PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ASK THAT, UNLESS THEY ARE HELL BENT ON GETTING YET ANOTHER THREAD CLOSED, CAN THEY PLEASE NOT RESPOND TO THIS PROVOCATIVE LANGUAGE

Surely we've all learned our lesson by now?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 06:34 PM

Well in that case, bobad, you and robocop are up shit creek without a paddle. I know nothing about what mods shut what threads, I did not communicate and, frankly, I don't give a stuff, as it's their gig, not mine. You could always ask them instead of making stupid smears. Your call, old bean.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 06:43 PM

Well, I hoped it wouldn't get too nasty too soon, but the usual clowns, as ever, have swanned in with their nonsense. Hey, "usual clowns!" So much better than "usual suspects!"

I wonder whether anyone thinks that a new "centre party" would (a) survive for more than six months, (b) wouldn't propel the Tories in for at least ten more years? And is there any such thing as "centre ground" anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 07:25 PM

"Chukka usually talks some sense, but on this I don't know what he is on about. People at risk of deselection, and rightly so, are the likes of Field, Stringer and Hoey, brexit apologists propping up the tories. And Joan Ryan who is trying to equate being anti-Israel with being antisemitic. I do not know of any genuine moderates facing deselection."

Absolutely right, David. And why should anyone see anything sinister in constituency parties having the power to get shot of MPs who they see as no longer representing their interests? I call that the very epitome of democracy!

When I was a member of East London Teachers Association, a local branch of the NUT, in the seventies, our meetings were attended, in spite of our efforts to get people involved, by barely enough members to get a quorum. When you think of those times, when the economy was a shambles and education cuts were savage, you'd have thought that teachers would get themselves involved in the fightback. But they left it to us lefties to do the dirty work. We had Blair Peach in our branch, a man I loved dearly (and downed many a pint with!), as well as a few other great people whose interest was the children in our deprived schools and the working conditions of their teachers. We were hard left but we practised absolutely no hard left shit, ever. But the thing is that a bare quorum of members could decide the branch policy. We knew it wasn't good, but, if the vast majority of your union members were members "in case there was trouble and you needed the insurance," you were not going to get them to be all radical and change the world. You don't get to studiously avoid your democratic rights then moan when things haven't gone your way. Tough shit.

So I don't give a flying fart for those whose life's work is to criticise Labour from outside. I really don't want to know. I know all too well what Labour's issues are. But I'll tackle them from within and I don't need non-Labour arseholes like Keith, with his agenda, making "helpful" suggestions.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 07:36 PM

I think its pretty obvious Labour is in one of its depressive self-harming moods.

And as with people, theres not much you can say that will influence their behaviour. Logic doesn't come into it.

Head in the hands, and weep maybe....?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 04:00 AM

"I think its pretty obvious Labour is in one of its depressive self-harming moods."
I'm sorry Al -
I've always respected you and thought you a fairly progressive bloke
Why are you siding with these people and joining in their kicking the only party that promises anything resembling a change for the better ?
What exact do you expect from Labour ?
Corby and his supporters are by no means my ideal of what is needed to change the dismal state that Britain has been reduced to by decades of extreme right-wing politics.
We lost the vote on Brexit because an extremist right wing group played to the worst aspects of the British people - its Xenophobia.
Immediately there was a sharp rise in racist incidents
When Trump was elected, with his contempt for women, his racism and his meglomanis, the swing to the right spread all over Europe - even liberal Sweden, for christ's salke

Britain has a racist foreign secretary a deeply divided Government who has bunged a sectarian party with terrorist connections £1 billion of your money in order to stay in power and a potential leadership waiting in the wings in the form of Johnson and Rees Mogg who are likely to return the country back to the political Stone-Age
The right wing press has been mounting attacks on Corbyn since he first appeared on the scene because they have the intelligence to realise he poses a threat to their right-wing privileged world
He is considered a threat by one (nameless) foreign power that that have spent time, money and effort to infiltrate the Labour Party in order to unseat a democratically-elected leader - their interference in British politics is comparable to Putin's blogging of the British referendum and American Presidential election.

Yet you think "Labour is in one of its depressive self-harming moods."
What do you expect of Labour and why do you not express the same antipathy towards those who are wrecking Britain
As far as I am concerned, at least it is making a stand against the appalling place Britain is in danger of becoming
Whose side are you on Al- what should Labour be doing?

As far as the rest of you are concerned
Several times in the past mods have warned us "don't feed the trolls if you don't want threads to be closed down" - Jeri springs to mind as having said that on a number of occasions.
These trolls have no regard for Britain or its people - they are extremists who have gone along with everything I have described above - they have gone even further with their extremism
This is what makes their accusations of Labour having been "massively infiltrated by the Far-Left" so ****** ludicrous
If people who do care wish to continue this discussion, for crying out loud, heed the advice of the mods STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS OTHRWISE YOU ARE GOING TO BE STUCK WITH THEM FOREVER - IGNORE THEM!!!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 04:17 AM

The proof of the pudding is in the ballot box. Everything else is just hot air. It seems to me Labour need to be taught to play happy families, before they self destruct. As an opposition party they are a joke. For a political party they appear to have fractured into a series of cliques with each trying to achieve dominance no matter what the cost to the party or its supporters. Whether they inhabit the center, left, hard left, or extreme left is irrelevant. What is entirely relevant is what the perpetual infighting is doing to the fan base,
The old labour heartlands that voted for brexit want their party to reflect their views. The nu labour adherents have a very different agenda and ideology. The presence of unite and momentum is merely pouring buckets of sand in a finely tuned gearbox. And Corbyn presides over the entire sorry mess. What a joke!
It will not be an election next time around,it will be a massacre.(snigger,snigger)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 04:51 AM

Steve, I was not complaining about what is happening.
Merely making observations and repeating the complaints of many within your party who have been in your party their whole adult lives and not just recently entered on Corbyn's coat tails like you and the people who are taking over the constituency parties from long term party workers.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 05:02 AM

Tell you what, Jim. When you stop feeding the trolls, I think many others will. Until then I shall try to remind you of your sound advice when you react to them. Deal?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 05:17 AM

When you stop feeding the trolls, I think many others will
Am I some sort os a Messiah Dave - I realse I'm as bad as the rest f you
Let's all treat these people with the contempt they deserve

Meanwhile - back at the House
Perhaps this is an example of how responsible Government should behave to earn their tax paid salaries - waddya think?
Chortle, chortle, chortle
Jim

From this morning's Sunday Times
UK GOVERNMENT IN CIVIL WAR OVER ‘DIRTY DOSSIER’ ON BORIS JOHNSON
Tim Shipman Political Editor
The Tory party was plunged into a bitter civil war over dirty tricks last night after it was revealed that Theresa May’s aides drew up a dos¬sier on Boris Johnson’s sex life in an apparent effort to prevent him from becoming prime minister.
The document, passed to The Sunday Times by a Conservative source, contains a catalogue of lurid allegations about Johnson’s sexual liaisons, quips from him about cocaine, and damning assessments of his character.
The 4,000-word “war book” began circulating in Westminster last week, just hours before it was revealed that Johnson and his sec¬ond wife, Marina Wheeler, had separated and were divorcing.
The document was drawn up by one of May’s aides during the Con¬servative leadership election in 2016 when Johnson was seen as her fiercest rival. It was not used because his campaign imploded.
The dossier was passed to this newspaper three days after two sources claimed that “black ops” attacks on Johnson were planned because he is leading opposition to May
He had an affair with the journalist Anna Fazackerley “on one occasion visiting both her and Petronella Wyatt on the same night”.
The paper was drawn up by Nick Hargrave, who served as deputy head of May’s policy unit at No 10 before joining the Portland PR firm last autumn. Hargrave’s name is listed as the original author in the document’s data files but there is no suggestion he was involved in distributing it.
A senior Tory who received the paper last week said: “This was put together by May’s team to smear Boris. It’s their ‘war book’on him.”
A senior aide to the prime minister denounced what he called “an absolutely shocking and quite outrageous attempt” to smear May’s team and the Tory party chairman, Brandon Lewis. “It is genuinely offensive and categorically untrue that we have done anything to update this document. The suggestion this was circulated, updated or briefed in any way by CCHQ or No 10 is a lie.”
That leaves open the possibility that the dossier was circulated by another leadership rival.
Details of the dossier and fresh infighting came amid claims an ally of Johnson’s was forced out of CCHQ this year as a result of her links to cabinet Brexiteers.
Carrie Symonds, the party’s former communications head, left this summer. A plan to send her to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to
work with Johnson was scrapped.
The Sunday Times can also reveal Johnson ditched plans to support a rival Brexit plan drawn up by hardline MPs after learning it had “mad” plans for a post-Brexit government to build a “Star Wars”-style missile shield to protect the UK from nuclear attack and an “expeditionary force” to defend the Falklands. Leaked sections of the paper reveal the European Research Group, led by Jacob Rees-Mogg, also wants to slash income tax and VAT on domestic fuel after Brexit.
Hargrave confirmed he had written the Boris dossier: “During the course of the 2016 Conservative leadership campaign, I was responsible for desk research,” he said. “Notes on opposing candidates are a fairly standard practice. I no longer work in politics and am thankfully no longer involved in the twists and turns of party leadership matters. I have been on honeymoon for most of the past fortnight.”
A source close to Lewis said he had “no knowledge” of the dossier until yesterday.
“Somebody is making mischief,” she added.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 05:45 AM

My wife can not conceive of a reason why any woman would want to engage in an 'affair' with (in her words) 'a fat, ugly, repulsive waste of protoplasm' - unless, of course, he's hung like a donkey.

There must be some desperate women hanging around Westminster and its environs.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 05:51 AM

Meanwhile back in the real world Jeremy of the allotment is under investigation by the Parliamentary ethics watchdog. Tsk, Tsk.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ethics-watchdog-to-investigate-jeremy-corbyn-for-overseas-visits-3dg2t66pj

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:04 AM

"There must be some desperate women hanging around Westminster and its environs."
Can't think of a more derperate than the one who is happy to bung a terrorist party £1 billion of the taxpayers money to stay in office
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:06 AM

Agreed Jim. But desperation comes (see what I did there?) in many forms! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:08 AM

"As an opposition party they are a joke."

As an opposition party, against all the odds and against all predictions, they wiped out May's parliamentary majority. They did that by fighting a responsible election campaign with a moderate and well-costed manifesto, which they spent the campaign promoting, discussing the issues facing the country without making it personal. Whereas your Tory party* spent seven weeks discussing next to nothing about the interests of the country, instead mounting a concerted, abusive and very personal vendetta against Corbyn, in league with the gutter press, of course. And look where it got them. So I say to all your brainless Jeremy-bashers, keep it up. The people in this country have little tolerance for your personal abuse and will judge you to be petulant, insecure fools who can't address the urgent issues facing the country and who couldn't run a chip shop. You just never learn, do you?


*Please accept my profuse and unreserved apologies if, in fact, you voted UKIP or, come to think of it, forgot there was an election on and didn't vote at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:09 AM

Jim - I respect you a great deal.

You always seem to me to see things with a sort of moral squint though. And whilst you couldn't start a fight in an empty house, I sometimes think of what my old sociology studies told me - three men living on island would constitute a society. And I think to myself - if Jim was one of those men, it would be a divided society.

I remember 1970 when Heath won the election. The silly cunt had promised the Yanks to send our troops over to Vietnam in support of our greatest ally. Luckily he didn't get his way over that.

That year though, they totalled up the votes and Labour had actually got more votes than the tories. But because of the first past the post system   The tories got to run the government. three day weeks. The city of Birmingham closed down four days a week. Brilliant! But nobody bitched about it. We had stuck to the rules had an election by the agreed democratic method and everybody just got on with it, whatever the fuck. That's how law abding societies conduct themselves.

Compare and contrast with the Brexit business. Your arguments failed to impress - over a million people more thought you were mistaken in your views. Many of them, like Dennis (the beast of Bolsover) who represnnted towns that had been well and truly fucked over by the EU.

And yet you say they are villains. No other explanation. Corbyn's critics - villains the lot of them.


And I say to you. All these people are not villains. They merely have a different view of socialism and its moral imperatives than you do. And if you wish to beat the tories at any point in the forseeable future - accomodate, compromise, reconcililiate,

The tory party carries its own self destruct button. It is in the hands of greedy capitalists and occasionally, people get pissed off with being robbed and vote Labour.

The cheap membership deal has let in the trots. The ones who let in Thatcher by not allowing Callaghan to make a single uninterrupted campaign speech. They have nothing but contempt for the party we have voted all our lives for. Corbyn dun that. That's been his major screw up, and it will take a strong determined leader to make us electable again.

Boris's shagging schedule will not win this next election for us. Sadly. if that's all it took.....

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:15 AM

James O'Brien's usual incisive view on Bozo's inability to keep his prick in his trousers....

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:32 AM

"Many of them, like Dennis (the beast of Bolsover) who represnnted towns that had been well and truly fucked over by the EU"

The mining communities were 'fucked over' by two politically-opposed individuals - The Beast of Grantham and The Ginger Comb-Over - who engaged in a war of ideologies, using the miners as ammunition.

Absolutely FUCK ALL to do with the EU, which didn't exist at the time of the miners' strike nor during the ensuing pit closure programme.

You've really got to stop this nonsense - you won, get the fuck over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:33 AM

600,000 trots, Al? Cor, when's the revolution!

Stuff 'n' nonsense, Al. Even if it were true, which it isn't, what would you do about it? Change the rules so that only nice ex-Blairites could join?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:38 AM

And, before you start wittering on about the fishing industry, the first cod war began in 1958, fifteen years before we joined the Common Market, and the third cod war ended in 1976, three years after we joined. The cod wars were the death knell for the U.K. fishing industry - nothing to do with the EU.

You won, get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:43 AM

Am I some sort os a Messiah

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:44 AM

Deep mining had been declining in the UK for decades before Thatcher came along, as has been pointed out many times. The largest drop was 1960-1970 where numbers dropped 317000(>50% drop) Six years of that decade under a labour watch. And was it not Wilson promised the white heat of technology would guarantee work for all?
For as long as Labour runs on ideology instead of pragmatism, it is doomed.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:03 AM

"The cheap membership deal has let in the trots. "
Do you actually believe this medu#ia shit Al - do you have any evdence that these accuastions have any reality beyongd the pages of the Daily Wail and The Scum - if so - where is there any sign of anybody expounding the Theories of 'Permanent Revolution' or 'Socialism in one county - or anny of the policies Trotskyism is renowned for?
Shame on you
It is a right wing slogan - nothing more
Corbyn attracted thousands of new members on the basis of moderate socialist policies - he offered an alternative that Britain desperately needed
If you care to scan the net, you will find that Trotskyism, pretty much like Communism, has pretty well disappeared from teh English scene
First antisemitism, then trotskyism
You've really fallen for media nonsense hook line and sinker
Jim Carroll