BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:08 PM

From your own darlin' Daily Telegraph

"In the Seventies we used to help protect the Asians from what was called Paki-bashing by white skinheads. Now their children are the ones doing the bashing and they are targeting our children, young blacks. It's madness."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:01 PM

"does not mean that it is acceptable to use it now"
Please don't be so crass Nigel
Not only is it still openly referred to but it actually has a dictionary entry in Collins English Dictionary - go look it up
You disappoint me
When Keith describes "all make Pakistanis as culturally implanted perverts you say not a word, yet my describing what was once one of Britain's National sports you go sprinting for the high ground
I deliberately use this nasty phrase to describe a nasty group of people as a reminder of what Britain appears to be heading for once again
Of couse we wouldn't like a return to the old prejudicial use of the term, but neither would we wish it to be forgotten
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/my-earliest-memory-is-of-being-racially-abused-in-manchester-i-thought-wed-moved-on-but-now-its-a7105636.html
(can't blue clickie)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 02:36 PM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 12:12 PM

Er, Jim referred to Paki-bashers as a display of extremism. It is a term that was common currency as long as forty or fifty years ago. It is perfectly legitimate to refer to the term if it clarifies what we're talking about. It does just that in the context used here and Jim's comment did not contain the slightest hint of approval of either the term or the perpetrators. Wrong-headed yet again, Nigel. It seems that when you can't debate it you nitpick it. And it happens a bit too often.

I don't think you've thought this through. The fact that a term was "common currency" forty or fifty years ago does not mean that it is acceptable to use it now. There are so many other terms which were common currency at that time which I'm sure both Jim and yourself would not wish to see used now.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 01:25 PM

"challenge to you jimmie of the cloth ears:"
Tsk tsk - your jackboots are showing again

" Its a bit like blaming your parents "
Why not Al?
His control of the press played a great part in bringing about Brexit, which, according to the IMF, has virtually destroyed Great Britain
A spokesman said today the leaving Europe with an agreement will damage the economy, leaving without an agreement will be a total catastrophe
Seeking agreement with those who have opposite outlooks on how society should be run gave us 'New labour' with Blair the war criminal at its head and has done much to foster the contempt that is generally held for politicians - the Irish Labour Party seems to have learned that lesson
I don't know about Britain standing on her own two feet, it's about time The Labour Party learned to before it loses any chance of winning hears and minds
If it doesn't, it will sink without trace
Britain needs an alternative - it really can't take more of the same.

"On the basis that the term 'Paki', for one of Pakistani origin"'
"Paki Bashers" is a common term used to describe a specific group carryingout a specific form of racism
The term appeared in the press at the tie and was frequently referred to o n the radio
You know all this - don't you dare attempt to apply racist connotations to my repeating it by taking it out of context
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 12:57 PM

"Your racially abusive posts on Travellers and the Irish"

Here is a challenge to you jimmie of the cloth ears:

Just demonstrate to us all any post of mine that is racially abusive.
Once again a figment of your extremely perverted imagination.

What on earth do you think has given you the right to constantly insult those who disagree with your dysfunctional world view? The only subject on which you have appear to have a nodding acquaintance is bullshit.
You spread it about so widely you would probably be entitled to an honorary Dlit. in the subject.
You are just a nasty, bigoted, anglophobic little man with an extremely sour disposition.
Now please take your constant insults away from here. People really do not want to see it.

Maybe you should pm me then I can elaborate on what I really think of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 12:35 PM

well calling each other out about our predjudices isn't going to help.

what do people agree about?

If we can't force ourselves to agree about anything - then we bloody deserve Theresa May.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 12:12 PM

Er, Jim referred to Paki-bashers as a display of extremism. It is a term that was common currency as long as forty or fifty years ago. It is perfectly legitimate to refer to the term if it clarifies what we're talking about. It does just that in the context used here and Jim's comment did not contain the slightest hint of approval of either the term or the perpetrators. Wrong-headed yet again, Nigel. It seems that when you can't debate it you nitpick it. And it happens a bit too often.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 11:52 AM

That's just it - the Labour Party can't afford to be like the travellers, marginalised and a perceived threat to the economic system that fills . or half fills wage packets.

Getting pissed off with Murdoch. Its a bit like blaming your parents when you're in your mid forties for your life being in the shitter.

That's how things are and were, and you have to just get on with life - using what you know of reality.

in the end, excuses for losing the election will be just that. Whatever reason he has for chucking out the Blairites that constitute half of his parliamentary - its not good enough.

Whatever it takes to find that centre ground. He needs to do it bloody fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 11:22 AM

"Those five people did."
Don't start this again Keith
You've just said they are your views - your original statement says so "I now believe"
Your stupidty in inventing "six others" and refusing to quote what you claim they said is beyond belief
As with Iains, you have reduced to respond to anything anybody has said but just continue with your monologues of hate against anything slightly left of Attila the Hun
You both have refused to involve in debate on this hread but instead opted for megaphone declaring

Meabwhile, back to reality Al
If Labour were not posing a tread to the present establishment they would have been ignored by the right wing media
If you want to know how much Corbyn's Labour is beginning to make a difference, just read Murdoch's bumwipe Time, or The Scum ot the Tory Telegraph, or any of te sewer press outlets
Hardly a day passes that you don't read that Corbyn has babies for breakfast or goes and burn crosses on the lawns of his Jewish neighbours
This is the press that totally ignores th accusations of Islamophobia by senior Tory politicians like Baroness Warsi
They report it and foget it rather than the dorstepping of Labour over so-called antisemitism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 11:21 AM

"This would mean that even Hitler would be extended the same human rights.."
Your hiding behind human rights is a sham - your inconsistencies prove it to be so.
You defend only those who reflect your own political outlook and ignore the rights of those you oppose
Now that's what I call "selective"
Your racially abusive posts on Travellers and the Irish confirm that and your bullying abusive behaviour towards those who disagree with you is reminiscent of past displays of extremism in Britain - from The Blackshirts to the Paki-bashers
Your persistent loutish behaviour acts as a perfect example of why the centre-ground needs reclaiming" (the subject of this thread) if we don't want to end up in your 'Brave New World'
Jim Carroll

On the basis that the term 'Paki', for one of Pakistani origin, is considered offensive, should the term 'Paki-bashing' also be avoided?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 10:51 AM

Only cowardsblame others for their views Keith - they are your views

I do not have the knowledge to form such views, and I do not believe you have either.
Those five people did.
Why would anyone dismiss their informed opinion?

You have been trying and failing to smear me over this every few weeks for over seven years!
Time someone made you stop I think.

You have no answer to what is said in current thread so you dredge up ancient ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 10:45 AM

" I have my suspicions though."
I really don't see any alternative Al

"Yet whenever you are called out you go running away squalling and crying foul. "
Never run away Iains
You are the one who is constantly saying "best ignored" and you are the one who refuses to respond to what hs been said
You and your mate have ywt to respond to one single challenge
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 09:53 AM

I think the problem to some extent resides with the image the traveller community presents. Common sense should tell us the majority of any community are decent people. But look at the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding type programmes on the telly piped into every home.

I know this sounds a bit like blaming the victim, but I think in an age when the media is in every home, and access to it is relatively simple....an insular community has to get out of its comfort zone and tell its own story.

I'm willing to bet the negative opinions expressed by the members of mudcat are fairly widespread.

And like I say, our differences are not in doubt. The debate is like a group of kids playing with mud pies. The shit slinging has gone on too long, and its too enjoyable.

Whether the Labour Party is making strenuous efforts to form a socialist government, or just pissing about shit slinging at long serving members, is anyone's guess. I have my suspicions though.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 09:48 AM

"You wouldn't get away with it if you addressed it towards other cultural groups - you would soon fall foul of the anti-hate laws"

Well I wish you luck trying to find any post of mine that would lead a rational person to reach your asinine conclusions. But then rationality is not one of little jimmies strong points , is it? We see this constantly exhibited by your ill mannered, ill structured, ranting, frothing posts.

If you stopped making unsubstantiated allegations about posters then those on the receiving end would not have to waste so much time rejecting your abject stupidity.

It really is time little jimmie grew up and became big jimmie and took responsibility for the bile he spreads about. But fat chance of that eh jimmie? Perhaps a kind moderator could remove your insanities and lies.

I really do get totally fed up being labelled bigotracistfascist by little jimmie. You have absolutely no idea what my political persuasion is and your constant wild allegations get rather tiresome.

Yet whenever you are called out you go running away squalling and crying foul. What kind of person does that make you?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 08:32 AM

"The centre ground."
Interesting development in Ireland
After being part of a series of coalitions with other Parties, The Irish labour Party bombed in 2011 with catastrophic losses - the Irish people has had enough of a one system system of politics and wanted a change
At a conference last weekend Labour Party delegates have made it clear that whet is necessary is a return to core principles
As far as I am concerned, there's a lot to be learned from that
Parliamentary Politics have become a farce - different self-serving parties saying the same thing has brought politics into disrepute
I don't agree with everything Cornyn says, but at least he appears to be pushing for a return to what the Labour Party was created for - an alternative to a sytem based on greed and privelige
He'd get my vote

Iains
You are what your stated opinions say you are not what you claim to be
You are a right-wing bully
I repeat myself because you refuse to respond to anything anybody says, but just plough ahead with one unqualified statement after another - your refusal to justify what you say is indication enough of why you are here
You're not here top exchange ideas but just to pontificate your own
Your parting shot about Travellers confirms your cultural intolerance and in no way justifies your describing them as a community of thieves or spreaders of rubbish
Before anybody can demand anything from them, they have to be granted the same basic rights of the settled community - a right to a permanent place to live, to running water, to sanitation, to electricity, to educate their children and to freedom under the law from persecution
They have none of these things and they have no chance of obtaining them while small-minded ignorant and bigoted people like yourself are allowed to spout your hatred
Anti-Traveller hatred is the last permissible form of racism in these islands and it is systematically ethnically cleansing a cultural group that has travelled our roads for an unknown number of centuries - far longer than many of our settled communities
It's about time you people came to terms with the damage your hatred is doing to this ethnic group
You wouldn't get away with it if you addressed it towards other cultural groups - you would soon fall foul of the anti-hate laws
Get a grip
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 06:49 AM

None of which really is much help in locating this elusive 'centre ground'.

Jim and Iain and Keith clearly don't like the way they express themselves.

Are there some views which unite us? The centre ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 06:48 AM

You are very clever in attaching labels to people and determining their political stance.However clever neither assumes accuracy or intelligence.

Perhaps you would care to offer proof for your labels and try to progress beyond your intemperate ,abusive, insulting posts.

In contrast, any label I attach to you can easily be demonstrated by reference to your voluminous, repetitive muddled posts.Bigot would be one label easily substantiated when applied to you, yet you hurl it about like confetti. A bigot is defined as " A person obstinately and unreasonably holding some creed or view and intolerant towards others". Does it only apply to those questioning your views? I suggest you look long and hard in a mirror.

Is there any particular reason you feel you should constantly repeat your posts?No one else here feels the compulsion to do it.

"Your racially abusive posts on Travellers and the Irish confirm that and your bullying abusive behaviour towards those who disagree with you is reminiscent of past displays of extremism in Britain - from The Blackshirts to the Paki-bashers"

Once again lets be having some proof to substantiate your insanity.
You are a serial abuser of all who dare hold a counter view.

I will support travellers when paid up members of the caravan club are extended the same rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 05:26 AM

"This would mean that even Hitler would be extended the same human rights.."
Your hidiong behing human rights is a sham - your inconsistencies prove it to be so.
You defend ony those who reflect your own political outlook and ignore the rights of those you oppose
Now that's what I call "selective"
Your racially abusive posts on Travellers and the Irish confirm that and your bullying abusive behaviour towards those who disagree with you is reminiscent of past displays of extremism in Britain - from The Blackshirts to the Paki-bashers
Your persistent loutish behaviour acts as a perfect example of why the centre-ground needs reclaiming" (the subject of this thread) if we don't want to end up in your 'Brave New World'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:55 AM

I do not believe the Human rights legislation to be selective, perhaps you can prove otherwise. This would mean that even Hitler would be extended the same human rights as jim carroll. And also be subject to the same sanctions should they abuse those rights.
This is known as equality under the law! obviously a concept too far for some.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:21 AM

Only cowardsblame others for their views Keith - they are your views
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:11 AM

Oh come-on!!!!
Supporting the right of someone who believes that the only mistake Breivik made was to kill Norwegian children instead of Muslims is only the latest
If you genuinely believed in the technical right to free speech you would have specified your accusations against the Labour Party long ago
You are supporting causes not rights
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:04 AM

"You are entitled to express your extremist views as I am entitled to comment on them"

Where is that then? Examples please!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:48 AM

If somebody stood on a street corner and publy expressed such a view they would become likely to prosecution.

It was not my opinion. I admitted knowing nothing about that culture.
It was the opinion of 5 Left Wingers, four of whom were Senior Labour people and three of whom were from the demographic group concerned.

They were widely reported. I just said I believed them. Why would anyone dismiss their informed opinion?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:40 AM

"You of all people, who willfully attaches any kind of defamatory label to anyone that gets in your cross hairs"
You, of all people, know that if you support as fascist, as you have persistently on this thread, are likeely to be tarred with the same brush and you wouldn't stand a chance in hell of taking that to court - especially as you chose gloatingly to present a petition supporting his jailing for his fascist activities
You are entitled to express your extremist views as I am entitled to comment on them
You are even entiltled to serially abuse people on this forum - as you do, just as the rest of us are entitled to comment on your infantile behaviour
This in not what I am referring to.

I'm talking about the posings that breach the hate laws onb Britain - the ones that describe Muslims as being prone to the sexual abuse of underage women because of their culture (based on the actions of a handful of criminals)
If somebody stood on a street corner and publy expressed such a view they would become likely to prosecution.
Likewise, If somebody wrote an article describing Traveller culture being one of thieving or slave-owning (again, based on the actions of a tiny handful of criminals), as several people on this forum have done regularly, they would be open to prosecution.
Snide comments on living in a bog, like at least one moron makes a habit of, are just acts of brute ignorance and risk only a punch in the mouth, but as they are made from a position of anonymity and distance just brushed of as cowardly name-balling from people who know no better
If the cap fits here, feel free to wear it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:38 AM

Jim,
On several occasions posters to this forum have breached national laws, particularly those involving hate-speech

If that is true, report them.
If it was true it would be a police matter. No need to consult lawyers.

Many of your own posts breach the IHRA anti-Semitism definition. The police would probably not prosecute but Labour would have to discipline you if you were a member.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 06:11 PM

i dunno. most of us are quite unguarded in what we say on mudcat.

the law is incredibly expensive.

i can't imagine anyone giving that much of a shit about what gets said about you. i personally have felt hurt and deeply insulted by what p[eople have said about me on this forum, but not enough to actually spend any money seeking such redress as the law would provide.

we're too sensible to get lawyers involved, aren't we....?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 03:49 PM

Jim what on earth makes you think you are beyond sanction when posting on an internet forum?
You of all people, who willfully attaches any kind of defamatory label to anyone that gets in your cross hairs, should be aware that you can be held responsible.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/Internet-defamation-who-is-legally-responsible-for-online-comments-266171.html

There is no such beast as free speech in Europe, there are limits
as shown by Article 10f the ECHR From: Iains - PM
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 05:04 PM and repeated by KarenH - PM
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:53 AM
In the EU you can be held accountable for what you post. In theory by both the state and the individual. Something you should perhaps think about before attaching all those labels to people.
Posting on a blog does not give immunity to the consequences of your actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 03:02 PM

The right to free speech has to be balanced with responsibility in how that right is used
There are those among us who choose not to live up to that responsibility - that is who civilised countries have laws to see those rights aren't abused.
On several occasions posters to this forum have breached national laws, particularly those involving hate-speech- one of the minuses of the internet, in my opinion
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:53 AM

I personally have no problem with the idea that the 'right' to free speech is not set out as an absolute right in international frameworks. I cannot see why Ians feels a need to state this fact repeatedly, because I am sure that all the other people on this thread are aware of it.


Just in case they are not aware of it, here is an extract from the ECHR.

The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

In my view, the laws on contempt of court, including those in place with the aim of ensuring that defendants get a fair trial, are a good example of a case when some limitation on the 'right to say what you want when you want' is reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 10:17 AM

"If you haven't got the intelligence or breeding to conduct yourself in a reasonable manner why don't you just go away"

Wise words indeed. Now follow your own advice!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 10:06 AM

How the fore-runners of Tommy Robinson dealt with the MENTALLY CHALLENGED
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 08:15 AM

"In laymans terms for the mentally challenged, "
What an appalling derogatory term with resonances of past history
If you haven't got the intelligence or breeding to conduct yourself in a reasonable manner why don't you just go away
A sure not being quite with it is the total inability to control your own behaviour which you obviously can't
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 07:16 AM

"but I am not yet convinced that reclaiming the centre ground is the solution to these problems."
Given the way politics works nowadays I tend to agree with you, but until we have a democratic system whereby our elected representatives are bound to carry out what they promised, the left appears to be the best bet on a very poorly loaded table at present
I have been impressed by somne of the examples of 'People Power' here in Ireland where major policies like water metering has been overturned (twice)
Referenda have brought about major changes regarding ame-sex marriage and pregnancy termination - I never believed either would ever happen in my lifetime
Another is being mooted at present that will seek to remove from the constitution that 'a woman's rightful place is in the home'
There was a disturbing set-back lst week when balaclava-clad, un-marked police assisted an eviction of homelessness protestors being carried out by a firm employing ex-Paras
At least we have proportional representation that manages to strike some sort of balance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 06:19 AM

Some of the most important political issues have been absent from this discussion. The environment, filthy air, polluted seas, climate change.

Trump's attitude to environmental protection was one of the worst things noticed about his initial behaviour, which seemed to about freeing up capitalist industries to make a mess of our planet.

The life of our grandchildren should not be prejudiced because it falls a casualty to a 'right left' battle, but I am not yet convinced that reclaiming the centre ground is the solution to these problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:20 AM

and if you read the post by me you would see that free speech definitely has limits, especially when it comes to hate speech. How many times do I have to repeat this?


https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Hate_speech_ENG.pdf

In laymans terms for the mentally challenged, this means that if your scribblings or spoutings are deemed offensive by the authorities you will be prosecuted.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:08 AM

Free speech has to have limits. The kind of hatred spewed by the likes of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, Steve Bannon, Anjem Choudary and their ilk has no place in a civilised society.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:01 AM

best totally ignored!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:58 AM

Course it is as far as you're concerned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:58 AM

Course it is as far as you're concerned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:17 AM

best ignored!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 02:39 AM

Incidentally
You claim to be concerned about British justice, yet you and your friend have waged war on a faily moderate and very principled British Political Party, accusing it of a crime that it totally alien to its history and is actually protected by its written constitution YET DESPITE CONSTANT REQUESTS YOU HAVE FAILED TO SPECIFY WHAT THEY HAVE ACTUALLY DONE TO MERIT YOUR YEAR-LONG BOMBARDMENT - I DON'T SEE A GREAT DEAL OF BRITISH OR ANY OTHER SORT OF JUSTICE IN THAT BEHAVIOR
Nobody wants to respond to you because you have refused to enter into intelligent, non-abusive discussion, rather, you appear to favour personal monologues whit titally ignore the arguments of others
THe only 'justice' there is that of Judge Jeffrey's Bloody Assizes.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 02:39 AM

Incidentally
You claim to be concerned about British justice, yet you and your friend have waged war on a faily moderate and very principled British Political Party, accusing it of a crime that it totally alien to its history and is actually protected by its written constitution YET DESPITE CONSTANT REQUESTS YOU HAVE FAILED TO SPECIFY WHAT THEY HAVE ACTUALLY DONE TO MERIT YOUR YEAR-LONG BOMBARDMENT - I DON'T SEE A GREAT DEAL OF BRITISH OR ANY OTHER SORT OF JUSTICE IN THAT BEHAVIOR
Nobody wants to respond to you because you have refused to enter into intelligent, non-abusive discussion, rather, you appear to favour personal monologues whit titally ignore the arguments of others
THe only 'justice' there is that of Judge Jeffrey's Bloody Assizes.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 06:59 PM

Tommy robinson is a fascist and a hate merchant - no one should have the right of speech to spout his hate
"In laymans terms for the mentally challenged"
In layman's terms - the mentally challenged would end up in the extermination chambers in Tommy Robinsongs and apparently your world, as they did once before
Jim Carroll

EDL leader forced to deny praising Anders Breivik
EDL leader Stephen Yaxley-Lennon has been forced to deny supporting mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik after he was quoted praising the man who killed 77 people in a Norwegian newspaper.
In an interview conducted in his home town of Luton, Mr Yaxley-Lennon called Breivik “smart” and said the murders he carried out would have been easier to justify if they had been perpetrated against Muslims.
“The [Breivik’s] blogs are full of facts. You can not yell at people because they tell the truth. You may find the truth hurts, but it is still the truth. I read the blogs themselves – they contain facts about Islam.”
In the interview with the Dagbladet newspaper, Mr Yaxley-Lennon, who also goes by the name “Tommy Robinson”, added: “Yes, it would been easier to justify it [if the crime were committed against Muslims], but he would only have been swept aside as the one that killed Muslims because he did not like Islam. Whether you like it or not, that guy was pretty smart...What he did is despicable, but he managed to make people curious.”
Today, Mr Yaxley-Lennon was forced to insist that he did not condone the killings. He acknowledged the quotes given to the Norwegian paper but told The Independent: “they were not in support of Breivik. I was saying that it is bad we are all playing out what he wants us to. Everything that is happening, he thought about. He has planned all of this; it is disturbing to give him what he wants.
“What I said was if it was Muslims, he would have been swept aside as a Muslim-hater. The man is a monster, he took kids away from their families. But the blogs are the truth.”
The anti-Islam group whose marches have been marked by violence and numerous arrests, has been at pains to distance itself from Breivik ever since he mentioned it in the largely racist writings he used to justify his actions.
There were reports that Breivik attended EDL marches in the UK before carrying out the murders, although these were denied by Mr Yaxley-Lennon

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 05:04 PM

"The man is a hate peddler and you support him - end of story
The oxygen of publicity is to point gleefully at a petition in his support
Exposing his behaviour is just that - exposing his behaviour
Ignoring that behaviour is to allow him to get on with spreading his filth
Get someone to explain the term "appeasement" to you sometime"

RUBBISH!
In the last week you are the one repeatedly raising the subject of tommy robinson. I am merely correcting your attempted distortions of the facts.
How many times does it need saying to you that free speech comes with restrictions. Judging by your behaviour on this forum you have zero understanding of this concept.

On this forum the oxygen of publicity comes courtesy of jimmie.

Article 10f the ECHR provides:
(1)Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart
information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.This Article shall not prevent States
from requesting the licensing of broadcasting,television or cinema enterprises.
(2) The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities,may be subject to such formalities, conditions,
Restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society,in the interests of national security,
territorial integrity or public safety,for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals,for the
protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence,or for
maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

In laymans terms for the mentally challenged, this means that if your scribblings or spoutings are deemed offensive by the authorities you will be prosecuted. In the US the second amendment may allow for a totally   different state of affairs. I have no idea. The above relates specifically to the UK.
For the record, the nature of your anti english postings over a considerable period clearly demonstrates your anglophobic tendencies. This automatically labels you as a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 04:16 PM

Its very debatable i suppose. I have always regarded The Spectator as too far to the right to be interested in the truth and Boris was editor of that for many years.

But I suppose someone must read it, and think it represents fair comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 03:43 PM

Threefuckinghundred.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 03:10 PM

Boris Johnson and Andrew Brigden are undeniably far right.

That may be your opinion but it certainly is deniable and denied.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 01:52 PM

apparently 1% of the world's population own more than the remaining 99%. (and have £21 trillion avoiding tax in off shore accounts)some authoritarian world leaders are wanting even more while stirring conflict and division and threatening democratic systems. surely anyone who is sane or not a billionaire would like to see this improved? who could reasonably be happy with this state of affairs? millions are hungry or homeless (and many in the 6th richest country in the world) yet to challenge it in anyway is to be labelled 'far left' , 'marxist' or whatever.

really? for the record i can't be arsed to read much marx but the basic premise of marxism is undeniable. in comparison with the current state of play i probably would be regarded as far left by the supporters of the current system. but i'm sure that any other response is brain and empathy dead, totally lacking in compassion - and pitiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 01:13 PM

"Typical jimmie distortion.
Typical childish behaviour
I'm deligted to see that you continue to support this pice of fascist scum - your bullying suits your politics

"No one supports his politics here, only his right to a fair trial."#]After you were told of his obscene sta
tments about the Breivik killings "acting as a warning" you continued to demand that he had the right to speak as anybody else
The man is a hate peddler and you support him - end of story
The oxygen of publicity is to point gleefully at a petition in his support
Exposing his behaviour is just that - exposing his behaviour
Ignoring that behaviour is to allow him to get on with spreading his filth
Get someone to explain the term "appeasement" to you sometime
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 12:34 PM

So having described Jim mentioning your publicising of this petition as a distortion, you then go on to publicise it again. Yaxley-Lennon is only out on bail pending a new hearing. We will see what happens.