BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:54 AM

"Strange it makes the pages of every UK newspaper and more than a few international ones this morning."

Well yes, considering that's it's such a piffling little issue, I agree that it's strange. Why, it just about made it on to page 20 in the Guardian. Warning: blink and you'll miss it...

"The rise of Jeremy Corbyn is now the chief national security threat to the Republic of Ireland. It is also the main economic threat to our country."

Yep. And Mother Teresa said that abortion was the greatest threat to world peace, and I'm the Queen of Sheba.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:49 AM

Corbyn has been in Parliament long enough to be aware of rules, procedures and protocols. He cannot fail to be aware of the fact no pass was issued to some of his own staff members (Otherwise why were they escorted everywhere in order to flout both the rules, and intent of the rules?), therefore he condones deceit. Either you accept that or the alternative is to accept corbyn is an imbecile. Your choice!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:32 AM

Adultery no longer brings down politicians Dave, you old prude.

The security story has appeared in the Indie and the Times, not just the "gutter press."

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:27 AM

So you are already know that the outcome of the enquiry is that he actively condones deceit? Or is that just the gutter press headline? We do already know that Johnson was shagging his friends wife. I suppose that could well lead to the fall of Johnson. We have the same hopes. Just with different people :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:06 AM

Hardly in the same league! For the opposition party leader to actively condone deceit is a tad more serious than someone fraudulently using another's security pass.
You, like certain others would like to dismiss it as a non event.
Perhaps you also dismiss the need for a valid ticket to ride a bus or train as well. Such a minor thing after all.
Do you think laws, rules and regulations do not apply to you or the extreme left of the labour party? Such lies the route to anarchy and madness!


Luckily others regard all security breaches as of significance and will act accordingly. This could well lead to the fall of corbyn.

Good to see your compatriot in arms cannot fault the argument so drops back to the usual trick of insulting the intelligence and querying the sanity of the poster. Rather emphasizes the validity of my argument, doncha think?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 03:50 AM

Before we go any further down this route I would point out that this is not a specific Corbyn issue but seems to be a general House of Commons thing

Probe into security breach

The only reason it has received more attention recently is because it is Corbyn. The establishment is running scared so anything will do...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 03:35 AM

For the ostrich of the far left:

https://www.thenational.ae/world/jeremy-corbyn-investigated-over-aide-s-security-breach-1.769722

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 03:26 AM

Strange it makes the pages of every UK newspaper and more than a few international ones this morning. Are you going to deny The Commons Authorities have launched an Investigation Into the Corbyn Security Pass 'Breaches? Having fun in la la land?

Even the Irish seem worried by him. Here is a little snippet found today:


www.taoiseach.gov.ie/!L81XQP

The rise of Jeremy Corbyn is now the chief national security threat to the Republic of Ireland. It is also the main economic threat to our country. )

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:16 PM

The only person I've heard making such a big thing about this alleged security breach (and do look into it, chaps, before you get carrried away with the idea that Labour Party secretaries are going to show up to work in suicide vests) is Iains. Reading his posts makes me question my own sanity. Or, rather, his. He does appear to have a problem that needs addressing...seriously...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 05:08 PM

we have to live with the fuckers because people vote for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 04:49 PM

Why should anyone have to live with the likes of Johnson, Farage or Trump, Al? They are a disgrace and telling people to 'live with it' is just accepting that they should be allowed to get away with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 04:22 PM

A recent headline:
MI5 chief summons Jeremy Corbyn for a 'facts of life' briefing on Britain's terror threat amid criticism of Labour leader's approach to national security.   Corbyn summoned to Thames House for a briefing with MI5 boss Andrew Parker.    Security chiefs are concerned Labour leader does not understand the threat
    But the briefing has been postponed while Corbyn tackles anti-Semitism crisis

By Tim Sculthorpe, Deputy Political Editor For Mailonline

Published: 10:01, 2 September 2018 | Updated: 12:18, 2 September 2018


I think the only thing to take away from this about Corbyn is:
Security chiefs are concerned the Labour leader does not understand the threat

Makesa person wonder what else he does not comprehend!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 04:07 PM

Boris is dodgy. Live with it. However people like him and will vote for him. They don't trust him, or think he's a decent bloke. they just like him. Like Tebbit said, you'd enjoy having a drink with Boris.

Attacking him isn't going to solve our problems.

Either Jeremy needs to start studying likeability with great assiduity. or get replaced by someone who does it naturally.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:48 PM

Funny, I was going to say the same of Boris and his dodgy dealings even before he was caught with his pants down.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:44 PM

While Corbyn may not care about suicide bombers gaining access to his constituency office because of his cavalier approach to security, it is a very different matter in the Houses of Parliament. Like anybody else he owes a duty of care to his colleagues and all other parliamentary staff. His total lack of concern and his contempt for procedures gives a fair indication of what he thinks of those around him in the house.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:34 PM

Big Al Whittle.Well said! Security is not a political party issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:28 PM

Oh come on! On the day relatives are being asked to watch footage of the mayhem caused by a nutter outside the House of Commons - what does security matter, they ask.

Right wing, left wing or some as big as your head - security of our seat of government MATTERS!

Even more a reason to abandon this great old building, which is virtually indefensible - and put parliament somewhere where we can check who comes in, goes out and approaches it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:03 PM

Why is it unforgivable? Has someone died? You were the one that claimed loose security kills people, so who's dead? No-one? What a fucking surprise...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 02:33 PM

And another one bites the dust! A second aide to st jeremy has been discovered swanning round parliament without a security pass. Once may be an oversight, twice is unforgivable.

https://www.ft.com/content/6f9e78fa-b674-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1

The Commons Authorities have launched an Investigation Into the Corbyn Security Pass 'Breaches'

Labour: The party that just keeps giving!(To the Tories)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 11:04 AM

we are all suffering from gaps in our personal security by losing thousands of police, prison staff, and probation officers. we are less secure when our health service is barely functioning in many parts and - in the long term - when our education services are starved of cash and schools forced into ridiculous academy chains. i feel more secure when we aren't threatening vulnerable people with cutting their meagre resources and when there are less homeless or hungry children.

at a more local level i don't feel too secure when i see idiots going round with a pumped up bodies with beer bellies (odd that, eh?) and tattoos expecting me to talk seriously about trump, JRM or tommy robinson.

i was more secure when this was a kinder nation and even tories used to pretend to have concern for the less well-off. when ken clarke was a nasty right wing bogey man - now he seems like the last sane voice in the tory party - the 'centre ground' has moved a long way

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 10:30 AM

Hey, good to see you back, Raedwulf. Funnily enough I am just re-reading 'Jingo' and recognise quite a few of the characters as having a presence on here as well. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 10:24 AM

Wow! I don't come back for a couple of days, and... Blame me, Steve. It must be my fault, cos it all went poisonous after my last response. Sorry, mate!

On the other hand, maybe y'all should take a break. In most cases, from your own invective. In the case of Keith, like everyone else, I hope the break is in your internet connection (bet y'all were expecting summat nastier :p ) & I hope it's permanent. I cannot remember a thread where I've seen your name that you haven't polluted (or should that have been ", which you haven't", Steve ;-) ). You remind me of Vorbis in Pratchett's Small Gods. I doubt you'll understand, but others here will get it...

Iain - no, loose security doesn't kill people, any more than loose (for a given value of 'loose') morals (for a given, even more arguable, value of 'morals') kill people. People (or accidents; they do still happen) kill people. "Loose" simply allows the opportunity to occur. but if you think that Bj BJ is a fit person to become PM of the UK, I think Boris the Clown becoming Tory leader would be a god-send for Lab. Even more than JC has been for Con!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 09:33 AM

Who would trust a man that ignores all the security protocols of the house of commons. Loose morals do not kill people. Loose security does!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 09:25 AM

Back to earth rather than making false assumptions about the security clearance of fellow posters.

Why would anyone trust a man who shags the wife of another man, who supported him in a power play, to be prime minister of this country? Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Trump, Farage. They are all examples of how far the political spectrum has swung to the right. They all think they can get away with shitting on people because that has now become the norm. The sooner we are rid of them the better.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 09:13 AM

Even modern buildings need proper security. I once worked in a building where you had a pass operated stainless steel turnstile allowing entry into a razor wire encircled compound, you were then subjected to the real security, far more stringent than any airport. I was always struck by the signs on the gate. No smoking, No cameras, No guns.

Remember lax security enabled the murder of Airey Middleton Sheffield Neave, DSO, OBE, MC, when he was blown up leaving the house of commons..

Some here apparently take a frivolous view of security. They are lucky to live in a country where such concerns generally do not impact the general public. If only other countries offered a similar degree of safety.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:48 AM

the house of commons is a weird beautiful place. they should just use it as a museum - it has loads of treasures and paintings everyone ought to see.

we need a new parliament building. efficient , roomy, technologically up to date. then there wouldn't be security cock ups.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:47 AM

You are a fully functioning member of the security forces? No? I thought not. Therefore your opinion on the matter is based on total ignorance of the true facts.
A security pass was not issued because of a perceived threat. This is what happens in the real world. What happens in your lefty, loopy, la la
land is of zero consequence.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:39 AM

Balance of probabilities.

Is Corbyn's aide a security threat? Unlikely

Is the man making a play to be prime minister shagging the wife of one of his most ardent supporters? Definitely.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:32 AM

If adultery was grounds for dismissing an MP, the House of Commons would be hard put to generate a quorum. Get real!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:28 AM

What is the major issue? an mp having a shag, or an mp actively encouraging the breach of security and procedure in the commons?

One is possibly a crime, the other, who realistically cares.
That is the reality    of the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:14 AM

Still back in the real world. Boris caught out shagging the wife of a Sun columnist who supported him on brexit and his power plays. Oh the poetic justice :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:06 AM

It is a clear breach of Parliamentary security procedures as illustrated by the huff post.


https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-westminster-security-pass_uk_5b98088de4b0511db3e6c1e6?50c

It seems jeremy is taking the P**S!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:01 AM

It is getting worse for Corbyn. His private secretary turned down for commons security pass!


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-jeremy-corbyn-aide-iram-awan-working-at-parliament-without-security-clearance-rtm67sx6

Totally outrageous!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 07:57 AM

In the meanwhile, back in the real world, 50 Tory MPs have laid bare their plans to unseat Theresa May.

Both parties' problems are real Dave.
It is only your gang that denies that Labour even has one.

It was one of your own MPs who just said that his party had been infiltrated by the “intolerant hard left” and the move had been “orchestrated nationally”.

It appears that your leadership want to reclaim the Centre ground in the party, and stamp it out!

Steve, again according to your own MPs A/S is at the centre of this problem. The moderate Centre Left Labour MPs hate it and object to the Hard Left of the party promoting it. That is what is being used against them.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 07:40 AM

targeted purely because of speaking up on antisemitism.

Hmm..........this sounds very familiar, wonder where we've seen it before? Could it have been from Mudcat's own “intolerant hard left”?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 07:05 AM

I have just seen an ostrich!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:36 AM

If anyone wishes to make antisemitism a subject for discussion, START A BLOODY THREAD ON IT. Keep your bloody poison out of mine, please. And I'm talking to you, Hertford troll.

And, for those whose English is a little inadequate, votes of no confidence in constituencies are not the same thing as deselection. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:34 AM

Good luck to the 50. Hopefully they will sabotage the existing betrayal and get brexit back on track. No need to worry about labour. Their problems are ever increasing.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:22 AM

In the meanwhile, back in the real world, 50 Tory MPs have laid bare their plans to unseat Theresa May. At this rate the middle ground will have shifted so far to the right that it will have tipped itself off the edge. Hopefully :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:13 AM

The de-selection express is not helping any either!

Now the police are involved!


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/11/police-called-labours-deselection-row-menacing-cards-placed/?li_source=LI&li_med

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 05:52 AM

Indie yesterday,

"Following the MPs’ meeting, one Labour MP told The Independent: “Jeremy is vulnerable unless he acts on this, because Rosie (Duffield, Labour MP) is not a factionalist in any way and is being targeted purely because of speaking up on antisemitism.” "

"Mr Leslie (Labour MP) said his party had been infiltrated by the “intolerant hard left” and the move had been “orchestrated nationally”."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-latest-jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-row-backbench-mps-rosie-duffield-a8531881.html

Again, please do not claim that such criticism comes from me or anyone outside the Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 05:20 AM

Misread your posting as 'plague' - thought to myself 'little wonder nothing happened there'
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 04:11 AM

There is a plaque on a cottage near us that says 'On the 4th October 1793 nothing whatsoever happened here. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 04:03 AM

Guido the constant font of wisdom has the following on repeats:


https://order-order.com/2018/09/11/peoples-vote-no-second-chances-or-re-runs/

Do you really think banging your head against a wall is going to hurt any less,a second time around?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:33 AM

"Let's reclaim 200"
According to the very handy and entertaining little pocketbook 'Brockhampton's Reference -Chronology of British History' nothing happened between the years 197 (Battle of Lyons) and 210 (Emperor Severus strengthened Hadrian's Wall)
You can have that one with pleasure Dave

See y'all when I get back from my good film overdose in Galway on Friday
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 02:54 AM

Let's reclaim 200!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 02:31 AM

"I suppose if Corbyn offered the Lib Dems a second referendum they could take this lot down tomorrow."
Now that's a thought, especially as th TUC ad even senior members of the Tory Party are now discussing it as a possibility
It is quite likely that, by the Brexit time large numbers of the Government will be forming their opposition Party
I wonder who May will bribe then - pity the BNP and Ukip are dead in the water !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 09:25 PM

I have my severe doubts. Not just because I oppose referendums on principle, which I do, but because the result would be very close, one way or the other, and, as such, would satisfy no-one and would be just as divisive as last time. What we need is for politicians of all colours to stop arsing about and act on what they already know, which is that brexit is a bloody disaster. And ditch it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 08:05 PM

I suppose if Corbyn offered the Lib Dems a second referendum.

They could take this lot down tomorrow.

I'm not saying its right. I voted leave , but wouldn't it make sense?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's reclaim the centre ground!
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 03:17 PM

"Well the cheerleader of these "moderates" seems to be that arch-moderate Tony Blair."

I think the laddie has lost all street cred these days. The sort of center alliance I envisage would   have no place for bliar blair. Who on earth, even in the more deluded corners of the labour party, is going to give a vote to him?

Even the monster raving loony party would disown him!